I'll be graduating from undergrad in a few months and starting at an MBB in a major city (NY/BOS) fall 2016. I've gotten some consulting-related advice from peers/alums/WSO but would love to hear thoughts about working life in general. Tips? Tricks? Confessions? (Or if there's an existing thread, please link?)
Hoping to hear how to be a well functioning adult in the real world (seems like most WSO'ers are).
| +96 | Are you “less ambitious” for having long term goals outside of NYC | 24 | 1d | |
| +45 | Interviews Are So Fake | 28 | 56m | |
| +33 | 2024 UK Election - Tories finished? | 21 | 4h | |
| +29 | Being Christian in investment banking | 14 | 1d | |
| +25 | Non-Competes Banned | 24 | 12m | |
| How do I become Sigma | 14 | 42m | ||
| +19 | Moelis has the cutest Analysts? | 4 | 1d | |
| +18 | Best NYC neighborhood for single 30M | 12 | 2d | |
| +17 | ADHD ! | 4 | 3h | |
| +16 | Underage intern, drinking? | 7 | 1d |
Career Resources
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
If you can live without her (or him), do not invest the maximum amount of time/effort into her because it will ultimately be a waste.
Single, so not a worry :)
Damn, that's raw. Point taken though. Care to elaborate on your experience?
Live beneath your means those first couple of years. Keep the debt and fancy purchases to a minimum and save/invest as much as you can.
Remember, so long as you have to answer to both a client and a boss at the same time, your job will likely suck. Carve out that third piece and answer to yourself and your own needs as well.
Your co-workers and bosses aren't really your friends or family, despite what your firm might tell you about its "culture". The minute you're unable to add value or start falling behind your peers, you'll get axed so fast your head will spin and all that goodwill will be a fond memory (though consulting firms try not to burn bridges when shytcanning people). So never get too comfortable. Clock in, grind out, compete, and deliver-with a smile even if you could care less. Then you can exchange pleasantries all you want.
Keep a checklist of goals so you don't forget or get too complacent. Knock out the ones you have time to do and don't worry about finishing them all. If you're batting .300 at the end of the year, consider it a good year.
Chicks will come and go-use your 20s to determine exactly what you like so you don't end up settling for the sake of settling. Don't marry too young or too soon. The juice isn't worth the squeeze in many circumstances-especially if you still have a ton of stuff left on your personal checklist. But YMMV.
Your first year or so will be an absolute grind, prepare for it. Be willing to do whatever is asked of you, regardless of how stupid it is. Don't take offense if it's sometimes difficult to get ahold of somebody senior (whether it's networking, a meeting, or whatever). Something that took me awhile to grasp is really how busy they are, it's nothing personal, just be patient and don't waste their time. That's 30 min less they're spending with their SO, kids, or whomever
Embrace the grind and always keep the end goal in mind. Find something that you're driving towards, and make sure to keep it in sight-especially during the tough times. Realize you're at the bottom of the totem pole and act accordingly
Be smarter about going out and drinking. Going out until 3 AM Friday and Saturday each weekend then catching a flight at 6 am on Monday is awful. I did it when I first started and it makes the week awful because you're trying to catch up on sleep, but slammed at work
Monitor what you eat/drink. When you first start, because of the large meal allowances, you feel obligated to spend the entire thing. Don't. Eating the steak and lobster each night in addition to a few drinks a night will add to your waistline like you'll never believe. Eat healthy, workout in the mornings-it's not rocket science. It makes it a lot easier if you have a flexible morning which allows you to get in at 830 or 9.
It's more important to do B+/A- work and be well known and liked, than to do A work, but nobody knows who you are or doesn't like you. This is a business of relationships, make sure you're taking time to form relationships and be well-liked. Most of the time, being well-liked just means being able to take shit from people and taking time to learn from them and develop relationships personally.
Good luck
Never (overtly) throw someone under the bus, even if they deserve it, you will ALWAYS look bad.
Merry Christmas and congratulations on the MBB offer in a great city; you're already ahead of 95% of your peers. I was in your shoes not too long ago (and still am, to a certain extent), so my advice is based on experience more than anything else.
-- Try things early and often. You're at a point where you can jump from one idea to another without anyone batting an eye. Given the you're in consulting, try as many different projects in as many different areas of interest as you can fit into your time at your company. If you're interested in healthcare, go for it. Find that you're now interested in private equity? Network with people on the PE team and make it happen. Don't be married to a potential career that you (likely) haven't even experienced yet.
-- Speaking of networking, don't be scared of talking to the Partners, the MDs, and the CEOs. Their seniority tends to scare others off. Given that these people have reached a certain apex in their careers, they're not grinding it out like fresh new Analysts. They WANT to pave the way forward for their future prodigies and are willing to make it happen if you make that initial connection, are kind/humble and show that you're eager to learn. Not every senior person needs to be emulated (if they ignore you or are a dick, learn your lesson and then move on), but make sure to find role models that you want to learn from early on and that you keep in the loop as you move forward.
-- Don't EVER do something because it looks good for X (e.g., "I'll be a getting a Master's in Russian literature, a PhD in biochemistry, and will be deworming orphans in Somalia for the next 18 months so that I stand out to the HBS adcoms"). This stuff reeks of pre-fabrication, which will become evident when you start talking about your new "hobbies" to a real human being instead of simply listing them on your resume.
-- Completely agree with TheGrind regarding your colleagues. You go to work to do a job, (hopefully) learn something (if you're not learning anything, GET OUT now) and get paid. If a natural friendship springs out that, great! If you're all living together, working together and partying together all the time without non-work friends, then you need to reevaluate your life.
Really great posts. It's great to hear some raw advice, so thank you to everyone who answered.
Irrelevant side note, but I'm a girl. Not sure that it makes a difference, but I thought I'd reveal myself anyway (since it slipped my notice earlier!).
Great posts. Also coming out of undergrad and keen on listening these advices.
I would push back on the "save as much as you can" sentiment. No, do not spend everything you make. No, do not take on unnecessary debt. But don't count pennies. That makes life slow and boring. You'll likely never make less than you do now, so put a little aside of course, and then live life, enjoy it.
WSJ Advice for New Grads (Originally Posted: 04/30/2012)
Thought these tips were pretty good for those monkeys in the 2012 graduating class, or anyone for that matter. Some tips may be pertain to you, while others may not. Figured I'd share to those who didn't get to see it yet.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527023048113045773663324004537…
Good stuff
Nice, thanks
Terrible article, the underlying tone to it was shoot to be average. Not in my DNA. Am I going to listen some guy who writes in the Wall Street Journal or am I going to listen to Jerry Rice? He said, “The Enemy of the best is the good. If you're always settling with what's good, you'll never be the best.”
I thought the same way you did when I was 22. I had visions of starting my own investment bank, of watching wealth grow at 10%+CPI, and huge success in business.
Then a wrinkle or two and a small hint of gray hair crept in. And I realized how short life was, and that my time on this planet was too valuable to be chasing seven figure salaries or to spend time worrying about who can afford which car. Wheelan's point about "don't make the world worse" is a very good one.
I actually do agree with Jerry Rice about goodness being the enemy of greatness. But in 100 years when everything material has turned to dust, when our lives are long gone, goodness gets the last laugh over greatness.
I understand where he is coming from but I rather die trying (to go beyond my own highest expectations) rather than settling down for mediocrity.
Actually, you guys are right. I probably shouldn't have told a bunch of people interested in great success to follow those tips. I'm going to say that some tips should be read and then carried out in the opposite fashion.
I fail to see how anyone reads this and thinks "terrible article" unless they're still in the "jerking off to banking" phase. Obviously take it all with a grain of salt, but there is some truth to all of this. Namely:
--Successful people rarely live linear lives (i.e. there is no true "path" to success; and success is relative) --Having good friends and doing fun things is more important than padding a bank account --No matter what, we all meet the same end (game over)
No one is advocating being reckless and stupid, it's just good to have perspective.
this. You're not gonna do great worldly things by working in PE making 1mm a year. You're not gonna die any different then anyone else. Don't be blinded by banking.
One of the comments left on the article:
''Find a problem people have and solve it.
Solve that problem quickly and for less cost than others and repeat that capability.
Solve problems consistently enough and your reward will be to do it again tomorrow. Take no piece of business for granted.
Do this, and one day someone may say something nice about you, as they stand over your grave, while your family exercises how best to divide your stuff.''
That's pretty much it.
Fuck it, work in banking and PE if you like it. But, realize, that unless you are truly money obsessed to an absurd degree, it's going to be hard to make it far in IB or PE without some level of true satisfaction from the work. Getting to the $1 million payday takes a long time, sustaining that type of income is not easy, and there are only so many spots that pay it. It takes hard fucking work and a ton of sacrifice.
My greater point is that there are so many ways to make money in the world, so don't feel tied to this and don't feel that the money is going to make you super happy. It differs by degree from person to person, but don't get all high and mighty until you've spent some time doing this shit.
Alright, I'm switching to medecine.
Best advice to young people. Don't be ambitious just be mediocre so there is one person less in the line to greatness.
I don't think he was saying "be average," unless you consider Teddy Roosevelt average. "Don't try to be great" doesn't mean "be average" - it means, greatness should not be an objective in and of itself, but the natural result of other objectives. Don't do something because other people will approve - do it because you want to.
I didn't mean it was a terrible article in literal sense, but his values are pretty much saying take it easy and if you can, take the easy road. In a sense, meaning shooting to be average. For example, "Kids' sports are becoming ridiculously structured and competitive. What happened to playing baseball because it's fun? We are systematically creating races out of things that ought to be a journey." My thoughts: You play to win the game, not every kid should get a plastic trophy because they participated. That's not real life. The winner should receive the award.
If anyone has seen the Little Giants, I think he is advocating being the coach of the Little Giants, yes they did win the game in the movie but in real life the Cowboys team and coach would of eat their breakfast.
Some of the posters are older than me, I'm graduating this year and I respect your opinion but I don't think this is a great mentality to have coming out of college.
I took this article as a more "be happy with who you are, but continue to try to better yourself". The two things I don't want to do are settle for mediocrity and be perpetually unhappy. Hopefully I can hit the midpoint. Are my ambitions still billionaire President? Hell yea. Am I gonna sit at night with a bottle of scotch crying that I'm not there yet? No. I am enough of an optimist that I think given enough time and dedication you can achieve whatever you desire. If I die at 80 with a net worth of $2mm, it probably won't be because I failed. Hopefully I've found objectives other than money and power that leave me satisfied. Is it necessarily better to be a billionaire socialite who has constant suicidal ideation than a poor dude who's happy? I don't think so. Happiness is due to a variety of factors- money, relationships, success, etc. You just need to find the right combo for you.
4! Is this really possible from a male perspective?
Overall good list. General but pretty applicable in my case anyways.
I think that the older guys on the forum forget that it was their silly thoughts (the dream of taking on the world, making a difference, getting into XYZ schools, getting a well paid job, getting into XZY companies), are exactly what have gotten you so far in your current stage in life. It is a total hypocrisy to dismiss that you didn’t need these. Yes, maybe after you have been there, done that, you realize that you are not happy with whatever you are doing currently.
However, to most prospective monkeys and most people who are starting out, they need to believe in something. They need to believe in going somewhere. I don’t think saying things like, “look kids, we are all going to die and no one is going to remember you, so go eat, shit, sleep, fuck and die…”
If you guys can recall, you guys probably miss your old former self, where you actually truly believe in something. Truly believe in yourself that you can build a great company and be really great at what you are doing. Those are the kind of beliefs that get you through all the hardships. It wasn’t about the money and power. It was because you need to prove to yourself and live up to your own expectations in life. Old ages tend to come with becoming cynical. And that’s where we totally lost in being faithful to ourselves, which is to “stay hungry and stay foolish” and be utterly devoted to what we want to do in life despite being told a hundred times that “this doesn’t work and you will never make a difference.” I hope prospective Monkeys, take this last part to the heart.
You're missing the entire point of what I'm saying, at the very least. All I'm trying to say is "it's banking, be realistic about it and you'll be ok. But don't masturbate to it like it's God's gift to the planet." And to generally stay grounded and have the realization that working at some investment bank or wherever shouldn't define who you are. Furthermore, 99+% of the time, there is no linear path to success, so don't be afraid to do different things or take risks.
Last, but not least, I think the financial crisis changed everything. Anyone who worked through it will have a different perspective from some kid who read about it, seriously, for the first time in college. It changes your perspective on the industry radically.
I want to advance something that's bigger than me. When all is said and done, I turn into dust, but the important things in life don't. Some of this gets philosphical and religious, and as long as your religion doesn't involve too much nihilism, you'll know what to do.
I agree on some level that it's not. Right now, your job is to be pursuing some level of financial security and self-sufficiency. But when you hit 25 or 26, have some money saved up, and you find yourself stumbling home from a night of drinking at 10 Oak, we want these voices to be hitting you hard so that this stuff occurs to you when you're 25, not when you're 30 or 40 and it's too late. The purpose of life is not money or the banker lifestyle. You can find financial security and self-sufficiency here- which is very useful- but you won't find the meaning of life here.I agree with the fact that life is competitive. But honestly, where would the world be if EVERYONE was like the people on this forum? What if nobody was content just being a plumber or an electrician, or a nurse? People who are content with being "average" are really the most common, and average is a very subjective term. While you may want to work on Wall Street to accomplish your dreams, maybe someone else just wants to be a good dad? Or a good friend? Husband/wife, etc. You can be good at your job without having the "best" job. I find it really refreshing actually when I go somewhere where I think "God it'd suck to work here", and the employees are actually genuinely nice and apparently happy with their own positions.
Gives me perspective anyways.
And before the douchebags roll in I know you have to be 35 to run for President.
Honestly, I'm not in finance for the money. I want to go into finance for the passion I have for it. I want to be the best damn analyst there is. And seriously, when I went to some networking event for my job everyone was having expensive champagne and with the attitude they are better than the people serving them but I was talking to the servers alot because of how down to earth they were. If I ever am as successful as I plan to be, I wouldn't lose sight of who I am or where I came from. But life is a zero-sum game, potential can only take you so far.
Eligendi ea consequatur delectus culpa sed est quis. Provident quia qui quia exercitationem odit ea. Enim quo voluptatem quisquam assumenda.
Repellat veritatis ex dolore et hic sit dolorum. Dolor id a quo nihil et. Molestias est laudantium quasi aut natus nihil rerum. Perferendis mollitia excepturi qui velit. Id doloremque et odio autem omnis non. Ut inventore illum eos et et nihil. Voluptas unde aliquid ipsa harum.
Mollitia quia perferendis ipsum sed. Magnam sed rerum aut commodi minus. Sed ut deserunt dolores eveniet assumenda. Molestiae ipsum ut ut.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Ipsum consequatur qui culpa eos officiis ab tempore vel. Autem molestiae et quo vitae similique. Reiciendis dicta unde nisi.