Are You a Psychopath?

I've had someone tell me this as well. They also used words such as sociopath, autistic, OCD and bipolar. ADHD was the only clinical thing when I was a kid. I remember one day I got a call from HR and they said, "Just so you know, we had three people mention to us your latest rage on the floor. What was funny was that the three people that told us were all on different floors".

I think, strictly from a clinical definition, the 10% is low. It is similar to the definition of a binge drinker. EVERY New Yorker is a binge drinker if you use the "official" definition.

Way off.

But you make an interesting point about whether they are drawn to Wall St or does Wall St draw out the psychotic tendencies.

I would argue that the goal of breaking into high finance does to an extent mould or nurture these tendencies. I mean how common is it for a person to return fron a summer analyst gig and be a complete asshole thinking he is a BSD.

I guess it comes with the territory. A person wanting to be a doctor will nurture/develop their 'caring' side while an aspiring programmer might be a little introverted. Aspiring lawyers on the other hand will develop the canning ability to lie through their teeth and feed you shit for $500/hour. Of course I generalise and there are moral lawyers and doctors who think their standing in society makes their dick swing harder than anyone else and have a very aggressive and fuck you attitude.

Rumple makes good point. Also, I think you might be taking the definition too lightly. There is a difference between expressed behavior and inherent nature--the latter is what sets true psychopaths apart from your regular wall street douche.

Speaking of which.....Free Jon Corzine!....wait

I'd say sociopath moreso than psychopath. But, this definitely resonates with me when I think about a few people I've worked for.

This is probably true, but it's true in all high powered positions in business. There are plenty of CEOs who fit this description as well. The smaller the company, the shittier the management team usually -- anything under $200M in market cap and there is about a 30-40% chance you're dealing with a pathological liar in the CEO position at a minimum. Be very afraid of anyone who went to HBS or worked at Goldman Sachs (and very, very afraid if they did both). Seriously, those are the worst fucking people. I don't know exactly why that is, but based on six years of experience, I now assume there is an 80+% chance of a severe personality defect for anyone in those two groups -- lie, cheat and steal, baby!

I think Wall Street is an accelerant. It brings out whatever is inside of you. If you're a raging douchebag, you won't be able to hide from yourself once you're under constant pressure to perform with huge dollars on the line.

Very interesting. Doesn't surprise me at all though. I think it may be worse. I also think the job brings it out of you more than it draws that type in. The stress and long hours put ppl on edge which makes most ppl very irritable and a ticking timebomb. Also makes most very apathetic towards just about everything except for making money. I think breaking in kind of does this to ppl, too. It's like an upper class way of hustling

someone on facebook asked how this compares to the general population.

From wikipedia : "A study by Hare and colleagues suggested that one to two percent of the US population score high enough on a screening version of the scale to be considered potential psychopaths

Nature or nurture again? Is this the 80s?

The industry definitely brings out the worse in people. I've noticed a few sociopath traits in colleagues and, if I'm honest, in myself to some extent... I'm lucky to have good bonds with friends & family who keep me grounded. I actively try to be a good person and I think I've been successful so far.

The thing is, I've seen this kind of behaviour even among the nice, well meaning guys. Examples: - The MD that lies so much he has lost grip on what is true and what isn't. (more than one example) - The impulsive CEO that does a 180 degree change in our position, because of a single throwaway comment from some investor. - The Director that, unsuccessfully, tried to pin the blame on me for his mistake. Not cool. - The colleague who has no problem abusing their underlings with 93 versions of a model and berating them for having different assumptions from what was in her head. The same colleague then expects loyalty from these kids! - The JV partner MD that tries to account for reserves as profits/capital gains instead of a return of capital, so he can appropriate a slice (the guy actually believed his BS story)

It goes on and on and on... None of these jokers thought they were doing anything wrong, insensitive, risky or hurtful to others... it just didn't register, which raises the question:

Can you know whether or not you are a sociopath?

Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for, or violation of, the rights of others. They have a total lack of empathy and remorse. Psychopaths are generally regarded as selfish, insensitive, dishonest, aggressive, impulsive, irresponsible, and hedonistic.

Most Wall Streeters are responsible (ie: at least enough to get a degree from a top tier institution) and don't violate other's rights.

i've only been on the street for a little over a couple years, and can easily identify atleast 8-9 people i've worked with who fit the above description. Now, I'd bucket 4-5 of these people in the "bat-shit crazy" bucket. I had a director who sent an intern back at 12.30 am on a Friday to pull up equity research reports and deliver them to his house by a 2 am "deadline". That's not the strange/sad part. The reports the intern was made to pull were not for the sector we covered, but random research for his own personal investments. About 2/3rds of the analysts who quit my group before the stipulated 2-yr period did so because of him. But the filthy bastard still remains in the group and counsels young kids on "how to be a good banker", and takes pride in the fact that he doesn't talk to his wife all week. You meet a ton of strange people in this business.

People who are sociopaths or psychopaths have an easier time going through the interview process. Just think about how much you lied and bullshitted with a straight face in order to get the job offer

Isn't a psychopath a person who doesn't display any emotion where a normal person would? My guess is these psychologist just went around asking how you feel if a stock drops by so much. By training and conditioning most Wall Street workers don't get a emotional when there are big swings in the markets and thus seem emotionless even though they are just be rationale.

Many people fail to distinguish between narcissists and sociopaths (sociopaths = psychopaths). While a lack of empathy is the main trait shared by narcissists and sociopaths, narcissist lack empathy because they only think about themselves (and they can change to become a more empathetic person), while sociopaths lack empathy because their brain is wired in such a way that they CANNOT feel empathy. To sociopaths, killing someone elicits the same emotion as brushing teeth. Crying at the funeral of a loved one is as alien to sociopaths as imagining what it feels like to be a plant is alien to ‘normal’ people (i.e. you can’t really fathom it).

With regard to sociopaths on wall street, I think there are tons and tons of narcissists (more than 10%), but not many sociopaths. True sociopaths are fucking scary.

I don't fit that description at all.

I agree with is-t that Wall Street is more about narcissists than psychopaths, but nevertheless it does attract people who like risk, lie more and feel less empathy. IMO, the main reason is because it attracts the sort of people who want a lot of money and respect at almost any cost.

For example, very few people who go into IBD are interested in making pitch books 80 hours per week, they're interested in themselves and prestige and money and whores (myself included). The other departments in IB are generally quite similar also.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to return some videotapes.

Stupid study. Theres nothing wrong with being a psycho in this classification; its just a cultural expectation.

10% ? ... seems reasonable.

Hello, my name is heister, I am a psychopath.

Article saying that this is untrue: http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/03/06/untrue-1-out-of-every-…

It is probably true though, I just feel it.

I think Wall street attracts more narcissists than psychopaths. The similarities between the two groups are amazing if you look at it. According to the test I am a huge ass narcissist, but since I don't think it affects my relationships I don't really give a fuck. Let's look at the signs of narcissism....

An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships Difficulty with empathy Risky Behavior Problems distinguishing the self from others Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt Haughty body language Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them Detesting those who do not admire them Using other people without considering the cost of doing so Pretending to be more important than they really are Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements Claiming to be an "expert" at many things Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people Denial of remorse and gratitude

It just matters where narcissism is so powerful it eclipses the outgoing personality of the psychopath.

For real tho, check out the Narcissism Test. I feel the questions are loaded in some respects.

http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/narcissistic.htm

I still maintain the idea that the study of psychology is mostly bullshit. People have the need to find order and labels for random qualitative observations and dress it up as a "social science". Fuck Pavlov and his dogs.

Ragnar: Have you ever read any Jung? Do you know anything about fortune telling? Do you know why such general, ambiguous things are used as portents of the future? So people can project their own unconscious and prejudices/preconceptions of meaning on to them and divine a meaning out of nothingness. A really good read on the subject is Carl Jung's foreword to the Willhelm translation of the I Ching. http://www.iging.com/intro/foreword.htm

Another comparison is this study: www.livescience.com/18678-incompetent-people-ignorant.html

I took the narcissist test above... scored 35 and got this message:

"Because you scored 18 or higher, you may want to check out the symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder."

Whatever...

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/436/the-psychopa…

"ACT TWO. KING OF THE FOREST. Jon Ronson investigates whether corporate leaders can, in fact, be psychopaths by visiting a former Sunbeam CEO named Al Dunlap. This is an excerpt from Ronson's book, The Psychopath Test. (15 minutes)"

Interesting. I scored a 22 on the narcissist quiz, which makes me a narcissist but just barely. I was kinda surprised by that, because I expected the score to be higher. I guess life humbles everyone as they get older. The thing I scored highest on was Authority (7.0) and the thing I scored lowest on was Vanity (0.0).

I have a hard time believing that the average score is between 12-15, though.

Got a 17; frankly surprised that the bar for being a "narcissist" is as high as it is.

btw I got a 33. I feel the test doesn't adequately discern high self esteem from narcissism. Celebrities score a 18? I highly doubt that. The questions are like: do you want to be a leader or a follower? Do you think that you often have good ideas? I mean wtf.

MMB: The important thing in those questions isnt what they actually portray as being truth - its how you interpret the answers and respond to them. Its more like an ink blot test with the way you see yourself than an accurate portrayal of reality. See this article for relevant content: http://www.livescience.com/18678-incompetent-people-ignorant.html

I think it's actually a sign of sanity to admit that we all go a little mad sometimes. The real psychopath is convinced that he is completely and utterly sane.

Youre only insane if you think you are not insane, and youre only sane if you dont think youre sane?