Banking on Insurance: Breaking in from the Insurance industry - fact or fiction?
Here's what my boss said to me over a couple of beers.
About half the industry (insurance) is made up of guys who couldn't cut it as bankers. When all else fails, you have dad call up his college bud at [insert name of commercial insurer here] and get you a cush 9-5 gig wining, dining and selling GL coverage to other hacks.
. What could have passed for just another cynical (my boss has a none-too-rosy outlook on life), albeit perhaps accurate statement - seemed to hit truer to home for me and was a tad disheartening.
I graduated college about a year ago with a combined BS and MS degree (Finance and Risk Management) from the epitome of non-target. Following graduation I went to work as a FT risk (catastrophe risk)analyst for a sizable insurer. Great - I was employed in a shitty economy and compensated quite well to work 50 hours a week (first in, last out too)! Plus, I dodged the double whammy of having to go home to my BRIC country. Being an international student, I would have had to return home if my current firm hadn't sponsored my visa. So all-in-all, things are going well. But alas, I have the same infliction that ails the majority of this site's prospective monkeys - I want to work in banking...always have.
It is to this effect, that my bosses remarks seemed ominous and disheartening. Had I, in my zeal to stay in the states, taken the fast-pass to the aspiring-banker graveyard? In the past, when I've asked other professionals that I've met within the industry (including brokers, underwriters, risk managers etc.) how they started in insurance, the answer is usually something to the effect of
Yeah when I got out of school, I wanted to work in investment banking, but then I found [insert current job here] and it's been the best thing ever.
. Now I'm not questioning that each of these guys truly has found the best thing ever, but none-the-less there is a scary trend here:
Truth be told, perhaps I'm being a little harsh. The insurance does have a lot of perks: the work is interesting (I look at how we might lose money during catastrophic events), the people are very nice (for the most part), there are some very smart individuals in the industry, the hours are great, comp is decent and there is a decent amount of travel (about 50% boondoggles), plenty of soirees replete with food, booze and fun on the company's dime. You can also learn a lot about a relatively evergreen industry (although we are affected by hard and soft markets with accompanying profitability) and make a decent chunk of chain as you climb the ladder. But I still want to be a banker and that is what I intend to continue working towards.
To this effect, I'm throwing out a question to WSO - are there any monkeys out there who have made the successful transition from insurance to banking? And how did you do it? I would also love to hear about folks currently within the industry, trying to break into IB. I myself have just put into play a 6 month, intensive networking and rebranding plan to try and break in. I have drawn on all the fantastc information on this site and others like it (M&I for one) to develop what I feel like will be the most effective networking strategy. On a side-note, I've already spoken with 3 ED and MD level guys at BBs through just a month of work and while neither may yield an offer, at least I am getting through (more on this later though).
On the flip-side, if there are any monkeys on the site who are interested in working within the industry feel free to ask any questions and I will do my best to answer them. There are plenty of interesting areas in which to work; just some of which are underwriting (client facing), risk-management (modeling/quantitative), brokerage (Type-A sales role/potential for big bonuses), reinsurance (insurance for insurers, longer hours and more money) and my personal favorite Insurance Linked Securities ILS (insurance meets investment banking - structuring esoteric loss triggered risk transfer mechanisms.
WSO has been a tremendous resource and one that I intend to leverage to eventually break into banking. I already have a better resume and networking success thanks to them. Usually, when we read about monkeys who want to break in or have already broken in - a pre and post-mortem analysis, if you will. In my future posts, I hope to provide a regular account of how my grand (questionably) 6 month, Banking or Bust program is going. I hope this helps other insurance monkeys who are IB hopefuls, or truthfully anyone who wants to work in IB (not to mention anyone who is international and from a non-target).
Comments
+1 SB, nice post. Could you
+1 SB, nice post.
Could you elaborate on the ILS role? This is basically structuring cat bonds, right?
Insurance is a little opaque relative to other industries. Within a large F500 insurer, which jobs are most coveted? I mean outside of actuarial jobs, of course.
How big is the pay gap between insurance and reinsurance? And why are the hours longer? I seem to remember reading that reinsurance brokerages were awesome places to work. Could you elaborate on those?
why banking?
why banking?
West Coast rainmaker: +1 SB,
+1 SB, nice post.
Could you elaborate on the ILS role? This is basically structuring cat bonds, right?
Insurance is a little opaque relative to other industries. Within a large F500 insurer, which jobs are most coveted? I mean outside of actuarial jobs, of course.
How big is the pay gap between insurance and reinsurance? And why are the hours longer? I seem to remember reading that reinsurance brokerages were awesome places to work. Could you elaborate on those?
Sure thing. Yes, I was alluding to the structuring and origination of cat bonds and other ILS such as side-cars, ILWs, mortality and longevity bonds (this is life and health though) and index linked bonds (such as CWIL). There are lot of different areas you can work within the ILS sphere though. You can build models price the risk within a bond at the time of issue or to trade them on secondary markets. These jobs require a very quantitative skill-set, often times at least a Masters, if not a Phd. Structuring the contracts underlying a bond is an area that is more accessible to most people. A single contract clause can essentially mean the difference between a multi-billion $ pay-out versus and making money on the deals. One of the bankers I was networking with works in such a role at a BB. He needs to have a very solid understanding of the market and trends, not to mention the ability to draft iron-clad contracts. His role crosses over into the sales of such bonds to issuers as well -there in lies the potential for banking sized bonuses. It helps that he has a JD, but this is not a pre-requisite to work in such a role. I would say a very solid interest and above-average understanding of ILS and where they might be useful are all you really need to be successful in this sphere.
As you correctly pointed out, actuarial positions are highly sought after. That being said, a hopeful needs to have a very solid grasp of math- at least 4 semesters of college calculus and 1/2 actuarial exams. These exams are exceedingly and hard and you need to continue taking them throughout you career to advance and perhaps make it to chief actuary some day. Compensation is great relative to pay: 65k out of school and usually a lock-step increase with every exam. An FCAS can easily make about $200-$300 base with bonus, perk, stock and other comp not factored in. Aside from actuaries, the most sought after position (actually the most sought after to the general applicant) is that of an underwriter. Underwriters are essentially the FO of insurance, the guys who asses a risk, price it and write the business. They are the sales-force and breadwinners of the firm and can and do make substantial bonuses depending on the volume of PROFITABLE business they write. Most CEO at insurance firms either come from actuarial backgrounds or were start underwriters with proven track records. Underwriting also involves a lot of wining and dining of clients (probably more so than any industry) and this is a great perk for any 22 year old with an expense account and license to spend - it's pretty much an obligation.
The pay-gap is substantial, at the lower levels on average 15-25%. This is usually the norm as you rise in the ranks as well. The answer to both your questions is staffing. Insurers have thousands of employees dealing with claims, administrative work and other day-to-day operations of a lot of clients. More headcount means more ways for profits to be split. The reinsurance industry is relatively small with about 200 major players. They operate with much smaller staffs and also have much less day-to-day busy work. Why? Because, if you think about reinsurers usually play in the higher layers of a policy (for e.g. of a $10M policy the primary might keep the first $5M, which given the law of large numbers you have a fairly good idea of what your losses will be and the reinsurer takes the remaining $5 along with a ceding commission), these layers are higher-risk/higher-reward. Reinsurers don't have to pay out on major losses to often as only the lower layers are hit. But when a major catastrophe hits (we're in the tail of the curve now), they pay big! So for a 5 year stretch a reinsurer can basically just make pure profit and hope that in the 6th when they pay out, their underwriting was solid. But as I said, fewer people doing the work = longer hours (on average) and more money. Reinsurance is a great place to be, just as Warren Buffett!
Reinsurance brokerages such as Guy Carpenter, Aon Benfield and Willis Re are indeed phenomenal places to work. Reinsurance is an entirely (almost) broker market. So these brokerage houses are the gatekeeper for reinsurers to their only business (primaries) and also for insurers to move massive risks off their books (reinsurers). Brokers facilitate the massive treaty placement transactions that all insurers and reinsurers engage in and charge a handsome fee on every transaction (to the tune of 10-15%). On a $15-$200M deal - you do the math. They also offer value added services, such as 3rd party risk modeling . The work in these houses is very interesting, you can make a lot of money (it's not unheard for a good senior broker to make $1-$2M per year) and develop great industry contracts. It's also a very competitive and Type A business, much like insurance underwriting although probably more so. And the life-style is pretty awesome too. Hours though, can be somewhat unpredictable as you work for a client and as any one in IB knows - client's money, client's time.
See my other WSO Blog posts
John Rolfe: why banking? Two
why banking?
Two sets of reasons why:
The right reasons why I want to work in banking. I would say my motivation is 50% this and 50% the wrong reasons (to follow):
A feel like IB is one of those truly rare jobs that:- Of course, increases your professional acumen – manifold. I mean there is something to be said for working with the smartest and most driven people in the financial world – all of whom quickly assimilate the massive body of knowledge required to be a successful banker
- Learn how to interface and manage relationships - be it with a client, superiors or colleagues – it forces you to learn how to deal with all types in a high pressure environment
- Allows you to be part of a productive and successful team. I feel like young bankers are given tremendous responsibility and the results (the underlying analyses they perform really is integral to the whole proces) of their work define the outcome for an entire team – very rare environment to work in
- Push yourself – mentally and physically
I think after 3 years as a IB analyst – you will never be the same again → whatever you decide to pursue in life, you will have a work ethic, skill-set and maturity – leagues ahead of anyone else
All the wrong reasons:
See my other WSO Blog posts
Primeape: West Coast
+1 SB, nice post.
Could you elaborate on the ILS role? This is basically structuring cat bonds, right?
Insurance is a little opaque relative to other industries. Within a large F500 insurer, which jobs are most coveted? I mean outside of actuarial jobs, of course.
How big is the pay gap between insurance and reinsurance? And why are the hours longer? I seem to remember reading that reinsurance brokerages were awesome places to work. Could you elaborate on those?
Sure thing. Yes, I was alluding to the structuring and origination of cat bonds and other ILS such as side-cars, ILWs, mortality and longevity bonds (this is life and health though) and index linked bonds (such as CWIL). There are lot of different areas you can work within the ILS sphere though. You can build models price the risk within a bond at the time of issue or to trade them on secondary markets. These jobs require a very quantitative skill-set, often times at least a Masters, if not a Phd. Structuring the contracts underlying a bond is an area that is more accessible to most people. A single contract clause can essentially mean the difference between a multi-billion $ pay-out versus and making money on the deals. One of the bankers I was networking with works in such a role at a BB. He needs to have a very solid understanding of the market and trends, not to mention the ability to draft iron-clad contracts. His role crosses over into the sales of such bonds to issuers as well -there in lies the potential for banking sized bonuses. It helps that he has a JD, but this is not a pre-requisite to work in such a role. I would say a very solid interest and above-average understanding of ILS and where they might be useful are all you really need to be successful in this sphere.
As you correctly pointed out, actuarial positions are highly sought after. That being said, a hopeful needs to have a very solid grasp of math- at least 4 semesters of college calculus and 1/2 actuarial exams. These exams are exceedingly and hard and you need to continue taking them throughout you career to advance and perhaps make it to chief actuary some day. Compensation is great relative to pay: 65k out of school and usually a lock-step increase with every exam. An FCAS can easily make about $200-$300 base with bonus, perk, stock and other comp not factored in. Aside from actuaries, the most sought after position (actually the most sought after to the general applicant) is that of an underwriter. Underwriters are essentially the FO of insurance, the guys who asses a risk, price it and write the business. They are the sales-force and breadwinners of the firm and can and do make substantial bonuses depending on the volume of PROFITABLE business they write. Most CEO at insurance firms either come from actuarial backgrounds or were start underwriters with proven track records. Underwriting also involves a lot of wining and dining of clients (probably more so than any industry) and this is a great perk for any 22 year old with an expense account and license to spend - it's pretty much an obligation.
The pay-gap is substantial, at the lower levels on average 15-25%. This is usually the norm as you rise in the ranks as well. The answer to both your questions is staffing. Insurers have thousands of employees dealing with claims, administrative work and other day-to-day operations of a lot of clients. More headcount means more ways for profits to be split. The reinsurance industry is relatively small with about 200 major players. They operate with much smaller staffs and also have much less day-to-day busy work. Why? Because, if you think about reinsurers usually play in the higher layers of a policy (for e.g. of a $10M policy the primary might keep the first $5M, which given the law of large numbers you have a fairly good idea of what your losses will be and the reinsurer takes the remaining $5 along with a ceding commission), these layers are higher-risk/higher-reward. Reinsurers don't have to pay out on major losses to often as only the lower layers are hit. But when a major catastrophe hits (we're in the tail of the curve now), they pay big! So for a 5 year stretch a reinsurer can basically just make pure profit and hope that in the 6th when they pay out, their underwriting was solid. But as I said, fewer people doing the work = longer hours (on average) and more money. Reinsurance is a great place to be, just as Warren Buffett!
Reinsurance brokerages such as Guy Carpenter, Aon Benfield and Willis Re are indeed phenomenal places to work. Reinsurance is an entirely (almost) broker market. So these brokerage houses are the gatekeeper for reinsurers to their only business (primaries) and also for insurers to move massive risks off their books (reinsurers). Brokers facilitate the massive treaty placement transactions that all insurers and reinsurers engage in and charge a handsome fee on every transaction (to the tune of 10-15%). On a $15-$200M deal - you do the math. They also offer value added services, such as 3rd party risk modeling . The work in these houses is very interesting, you can make a lot of money (it's not unheard for a good senior broker to make $1-$2M per year) and develop great industry contracts. It's also a very competitive and Type A business, much like insurance underwriting although probably more so. And the life-style is pretty awesome too. Hours though, can be somewhat unpredictable as you work for a client and as any one in IB knows - client's money, client's time.
Are you talking about Life Underwriting? or Business Underwriting because Life underwriting isn't sexy at all... I'm an intern there and I can essentially be an underwriter at least the simpler cases and I've only been there for a week.
The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee
WSO is not your personal search function.
bfin: Primeape: West
+1 SB, nice post.
Could you elaborate on the ILS role? This is basically structuring cat bonds, right?
Insurance is a little opaque relative to other industries. Within a large F500 insurer, which jobs are most coveted? I mean outside of actuarial jobs, of course.
How big is the pay gap between insurance and reinsurance? And why are the hours longer? I seem to remember reading that reinsurance brokerages were awesome places to work. Could you elaborate on those?
Sure thing. Yes, I was alluding to the structuring and origination of cat bonds and other ILS such as side-cars, ILWs, mortality and longevity bonds (this is life and health though) and index linked bonds (such as CWIL). There are lot of different areas you can work within the ILS sphere though. You can build models price the risk within a bond at the time of issue or to trade them on secondary markets. These jobs require a very quantitative skill-set, often times at least a Masters, if not a Phd. Structuring the contracts underlying a bond is an area that is more accessible to most people. A single contract clause can essentially mean the difference between a multi-billion $ pay-out versus and making money on the deals. One of the bankers I was networking with works in such a role at a BB. He needs to have a very solid understanding of the market and trends, not to mention the ability to draft iron-clad contracts. His role crosses over into the sales of such bonds to issuers as well -there in lies the potential for banking sized bonuses. It helps that he has a JD, but this is not a pre-requisite to work in such a role. I would say a very solid interest and above-average understanding of ILS and where they might be useful are all you really need to be successful in this sphere.
As you correctly pointed out, actuarial positions are highly sought after. That being said, a hopeful needs to have a very solid grasp of math- at least 4 semesters of college calculus and 1/2 actuarial exams. These exams are exceedingly and hard and you need to continue taking them throughout you career to advance and perhaps make it to chief actuary some day. Compensation is great relative to pay: 65k out of school and usually a lock-step increase with every exam. An FCAS can easily make about $200-$300 base with bonus, perk, stock and other comp not factored in. Aside from actuaries, the most sought after position (actually the most sought after to the general applicant) is that of an underwriter. Underwriters are essentially the FO of insurance, the guys who asses a risk, price it and write the business. They are the sales-force and breadwinners of the firm and can and do make substantial bonuses depending on the volume of PROFITABLE business they write. Most CEO at insurance firms either come from actuarial backgrounds or were start underwriters with proven track records. Underwriting also involves a lot of wining and dining of clients (probably more so than any industry) and this is a great perk for any 22 year old with an expense account and license to spend - it's pretty much an obligation.
The pay-gap is substantial, at the lower levels on average 15-25%. This is usually the norm as you rise in the ranks as well. The answer to both your questions is staffing. Insurers have thousands of employees dealing with claims, administrative work and other day-to-day operations of a lot of clients. More headcount means more ways for profits to be split. The reinsurance industry is relatively small with about 200 major players. They operate with much smaller staffs and also have much less day-to-day busy work. Why? Because, if you think about reinsurers usually play in the higher layers of a policy (for e.g. of a $10M policy the primary might keep the first $5M, which given the law of large numbers you have a fairly good idea of what your losses will be and the reinsurer takes the remaining $5 along with a ceding commission), these layers are higher-risk/higher-reward. Reinsurers don't have to pay out on major losses to often as only the lower layers are hit. But when a major catastrophe hits (we're in the tail of the curve now), they pay big! So for a 5 year stretch a reinsurer can basically just make pure profit and hope that in the 6th when they pay out, their underwriting was solid. But as I said, fewer people doing the work = longer hours (on average) and more money. Reinsurance is a great place to be, just as Warren Buffett!
Reinsurance brokerages such as Guy Carpenter, Aon Benfield and Willis Re are indeed phenomenal places to work. Reinsurance is an entirely (almost) broker market. So these brokerage houses are the gatekeeper for reinsurers to their only business (primaries) and also for insurers to move massive risks off their books (reinsurers). Brokers facilitate the massive treaty placement transactions that all insurers and reinsurers engage in and charge a handsome fee on every transaction (to the tune of 10-15%). On a $15-$200M deal - you do the math. They also offer value added services, such as 3rd party risk modeling . The work in these houses is very interesting, you can make a lot of money (it's not unheard for a good senior broker to make $1-$2M per year) and develop great industry contracts. It's also a very competitive and Type A business, much like insurance underwriting although probably more so. And the life-style is pretty awesome too. Hours though, can be somewhat unpredictable as you work for a client and as any one in IB knows - client's money, client's time.
Are you talking about Life Underwriting? or Business Underwriting because Life underwriting isn't sexy at all... I'm an intern there and I can essentially be an underwriter at least the simpler cases and I've only been there for a week.
Ha ha, no not L&H...P&C insurance. I know little if anything about life insurance. I personally work for a commercial lines, specialty insurer. Keep in mind though,that the "sexiness" that you alluded to is still low relative to IB/PE/ST even in P&C underwriting. It's a more stable, less stressful job and that by it's nature implies a lack of sexiness.
Curious though, what capacity are you interning? And what size firm are you with?
See my other WSO Blog posts
Primeape: bfin: Primeape:
+1 SB, nice post.
Could you elaborate on the ILS role? This is basically structuring cat bonds, right?
Insurance is a little opaque relative to other industries. Within a large F500 insurer, which jobs are most coveted? I mean outside of actuarial jobs, of course.
How big is the pay gap between insurance and reinsurance? And why are the hours longer? I seem to remember reading that reinsurance brokerages were awesome places to work. Could you elaborate on those?
Sure thing. Yes, I was alluding to the structuring and origination of cat bonds and other ILS such as side-cars, ILWs, mortality and longevity bonds (this is life and health though) and index linked bonds (such as CWIL). There are lot of different areas you can work within the ILS sphere though. You can build models price the risk within a bond at the time of issue or to trade them on secondary markets. These jobs require a very quantitative skill-set, often times at least a Masters, if not a Phd. Structuring the contracts underlying a bond is an area that is more accessible to most people. A single contract clause can essentially mean the difference between a multi-billion $ pay-out versus and making money on the deals. One of the bankers I was networking with works in such a role at a BB. He needs to have a very solid understanding of the market and trends, not to mention the ability to draft iron-clad contracts. His role crosses over into the sales of such bonds to issuers as well -there in lies the potential for banking sized bonuses. It helps that he has a JD, but this is not a pre-requisite to work in such a role. I would say a very solid interest and above-average understanding of ILS and where they might be useful are all you really need to be successful in this sphere.
As you correctly pointed out, actuarial positions are highly sought after. That being said, a hopeful needs to have a very solid grasp of math- at least 4 semesters of college calculus and 1/2 actuarial exams. These exams are exceedingly and hard and you need to continue taking them throughout you career to advance and perhaps make it to chief actuary some day. Compensation is great relative to pay: 65k out of school and usually a lock-step increase with every exam. An FCAS can easily make about $200-$300 base with bonus, perk, stock and other comp not factored in. Aside from actuaries, the most sought after position (actually the most sought after to the general applicant) is that of an underwriter. Underwriters are essentially the FO of insurance, the guys who asses a risk, price it and write the business. They are the sales-force and breadwinners of the firm and can and do make substantial bonuses depending on the volume of PROFITABLE business they write. Most CEO at insurance firms either come from actuarial backgrounds or were start underwriters with proven track records. Underwriting also involves a lot of wining and dining of clients (probably more so than any industry) and this is a great perk for any 22 year old with an expense account and license to spend - it's pretty much an obligation.
The pay-gap is substantial, at the lower levels on average 15-25%. This is usually the norm as you rise in the ranks as well. The answer to both your questions is staffing. Insurers have thousands of employees dealing with claims, administrative work and other day-to-day operations of a lot of clients. More headcount means more ways for profits to be split. The reinsurance industry is relatively small with about 200 major players. They operate with much smaller staffs and also have much less day-to-day busy work. Why? Because, if you think about reinsurers usually play in the higher layers of a policy (for e.g. of a $10M policy the primary might keep the first $5M, which given the law of large numbers you have a fairly good idea of what your losses will be and the reinsurer takes the remaining $5 along with a ceding commission), these layers are higher-risk/higher-reward. Reinsurers don't have to pay out on major losses to often as only the lower layers are hit. But when a major catastrophe hits (we're in the tail of the curve now), they pay big! So for a 5 year stretch a reinsurer can basically just make pure profit and hope that in the 6th when they pay out, their underwriting was solid. But as I said, fewer people doing the work = longer hours (on average) and more money. Reinsurance is a great place to be, just as Warren Buffett!
Reinsurance brokerages such as Guy Carpenter, Aon Benfield and Willis Re are indeed phenomenal places to work. Reinsurance is an entirely (almost) broker market. So these brokerage houses are the gatekeeper for reinsurers to their only business (primaries) and also for insurers to move massive risks off their books (reinsurers). Brokers facilitate the massive treaty placement transactions that all insurers and reinsurers engage in and charge a handsome fee on every transaction (to the tune of 10-15%). On a $15-$200M deal - you do the math. They also offer value added services, such as 3rd party risk modeling . The work in these houses is very interesting, you can make a lot of money (it's not unheard for a good senior broker to make $1-$2M per year) and develop great industry contracts. It's also a very competitive and Type A business, much like insurance underwriting although probably more so. And the life-style is pretty awesome too. Hours though, can be somewhat unpredictable as you work for a client and as any one in IB knows - client's money, client's time.
Are you talking about Life Underwriting? or Business Underwriting because Life underwriting isn't sexy at all... I'm an intern there and I can essentially be an underwriter at least the simpler cases and I've only been there for a week.
Ha ha, no not L&H...P&C insurance. I know little if anything about life insurance. I personally work for a commercial lines, specialty insurer. Keep in mind though,that the "sexiness" that you alluded to is still low relative to IB/PE/ST even in P&C underwriting. It's a more stable, less stressful job and that by it's nature implies a lack of sexiness.
Curious though, what capacity are you interning? And what size firm are you with?
I intern at a top 3 L&H insurance company in the world. They have me doing basically everything but actually underwriting policies I've watched the process enough times to know how to do it what to look for. TBH, they can make underwriting certain cases automatic....because things are almost always the same there is even a guide on how to underwrite cases.
The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee
WSO is not your personal search function.
@bfin: That's great exposure
@bfin: That's great exposure if you intend to stay in insurance, especially L&H (although I get the feeling that's not quire what you want to do). While I never worked in L&H, I have heard from friends and colleagues that there can be a uniformity to a lot of the policy submissions. Which makes sense if you think about it - the law of large numbers is a huge component in L&H - underwrite a large enough number of similar risks and you can accurately approximate what your sum losses will be.
If you're at a big insurer though, is there any way you can be placed in the investment or asset management arm of the company? At my firm they only take people with a background in investments or S&T and some experience - but that's for FT. I never asked about an internship. I imagine that might be pretty exciting stuff though - trading and managing the company's portfolio of assets to ensure that future liabilities and losses can be paid.
See my other WSO Blog posts
Primeape: @bfin: That's great
@bfin: That's great exposure if you intend to stay in insurance, especially L&H (although I get the feeling that's not quire what you want to do). While I never worked in L&H, I have heard from friends and colleagues that there can be a uniformity to a lot of the policy submissions. Which makes sense if you think about it - the law of large numbers is a huge component in L&H - underwrite a large enough number of similar risks and you can accurately approximate what your sum losses will be.
If you're at a big insurer though, is there any way you can be placed in the investment or asset management arm of the company? At my firm they only take people with a background in investments or S&T and some experience - but that's for FT. I never asked about an internship. I imagine that might be pretty exciting stuff though - trading and managing the company's portfolio of assets to ensure that future liabilities and losses can be paid.
Yeah, the goal is the work in investments next summer...I'm talking to a few people my insurer has a HF and PE arm.. I'm sure if people track my posts enough they can figure out where I work.
The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee
WSO is not your personal search function.
@bfin: Good luck...not sure
@bfin: Good luck...not sure where you work, although a few places do come to mind.
See my other WSO Blog posts
Primeape: @bfin: Good
@bfin: Good luck...not sure where you work, although a few places do come to mind.
I just wish Insurance wasn't such a climbing the corp ladder type of business. It's almost unbelievable the whole everyone has a manager thing is ridiculous. It's impossible to enact any real change.
The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee
WSO is not your personal search function.
bfin: Primeape: @bfin: Good
@bfin: Good luck...not sure where you work, although a few places do come to mind.
I just wish Insurance wasn't such a climbing the corp ladder type of business. It's almost unbelievable the whole everyone has a manager thing is ridiculous. It's impossible to enact any real change.
Ha ha, I couldn't agree with you more! I have 2 managers, an official mentor and an unofficial one. I told my boss a year ago that I knew VBA and SQL and could make some of our processes a lot faster, and she said we needed to discuss it before I had the green light. I waited 6 months before saying screw it. Just recently, I revamped an existing modeling and reporting process that usually took 3 days, entirely in VBA and the process time went down to an hour and half! My boss was stunned and pleased. But here's my question - why not just give the new guy time of day to at least pitch an idea, worst case I get enough rope to hang myself. There's a lot of great things about the industry, but there some antiquated traditions (like taking a couple of years to earn your wings) that just need to be revamped. A little more internal competitiveness would be great. Although I feel like one tends to find that a little more at brokerage houses.
See my other WSO Blog posts
Primeape: bfin: Primeape:
@bfin: Good luck...not sure where you work, although a few places do come to mind.
I just wish Insurance wasn't such a climbing the corp ladder type of business. It's almost unbelievable the whole everyone has a manager thing is ridiculous. It's impossible to enact any real change.
Ha ha, I couldn't agree with you more! I have 2 managers, an official mentor and an unofficial one. I told my boss a year ago that I knew VBA and SQL and could make some of our processes a lot faster, and she said we needed to discuss it before I had the green light. I waited 6 months before saying screw it. Just recently, I revamped an existing modeling and reporting process that usually took 3 days, entirely in VBA and the process time went down to an hour and half! My boss was stunned and pleased. But here's my question - why not just give the new guy time of day to at least pitch an idea, worst case I get enough rope to hang myself. There's a lot of great things about the industry, but there some antiquated traditions (like taking a couple of years to earn your wings) that just need to be revamped. A little more internal competitiveness would be great. Although I feel like one tends to find that a little more at brokerage houses.
I feel the same exact way I showed my manager how to move around in excel faster she was like wow, you're a God send. The lack of competitiveness kills me it makes work incredibly boring... I'm just trying to move into a more competitive group that's the goal. Considering that everyone Senior leader from all the top insurance companies have worked in the investments divisions of there respective companies.
The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee
WSO is not your personal search function.
@bfin: I don't find boring,
@bfin: I don't find boring, but I definitely feel fostering a more competitive work environment, at least among the younger employees is essential. I think investments would be exciting, way more fast paced and not to mention you would get IM experience. Bonuses would probably be tied to your P&L in some way, which would be great! Are you planning to take the CFA as a talking point or to boost your chances?
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Primeape: @bfin: I don't find
@bfin: I don't find boring, but I definitely feel fostering a more competitive work environment, at least among the younger employees is essential. I think investments would be exciting, way more fast paced and not to mention you would get IM experience. Bonuses would probably be tied to your P&L in some way, which would be great! Are you planning to take the CFA as a talking point or to boost your chances?
Well I want to become an intern..first and then if they say yes and its a requirement then I certainly will do that. My uncle is a PM/MD at an investment arm of another insurance company and he doesn't have a CFA nor does anyone in his office so..well see.
The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee
WSO is not your personal search function.
My uncle is a PM/MD at an
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I set up an account
Primeape: My uncle is a
doublepost
Straightjacket: I set up an
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West Coast
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There's nothing wrong with
Primeape: Straightjacket: I
Great thread. Does anyone
Not quite the same, but
To specify the rotational
Babyj18777: There's nothing
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Straightjacket: Primeape:
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Walkerr: Great thread. Does
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I'm a qualified actuary who
OP - PM me, I have some
safricactury: I'm a qualified
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I happen to have done CFA
safricactury: I happen to
The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee
WSO is not your personal search function.
safricactury: I happen to
The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee
WSO is not your personal search function.
Thanks bfin. I some ways it
safricactury: Thanks bfin. I
The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee
WSO is not your personal search function.
I know of a few IB Associates
Reinsurance = the Special
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“The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
Unless you're with Prem Watsa
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“The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
Primeape: Plus, I dodged the
There's no time to be bored. I'm so busy doing the horse dance...
I actually started my career
sabian: I know of a few IB
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Model
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techguy24: I actually started
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Primeape: This is a great
techguy24: Primeape: This
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Your first mistake was
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