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Wall Street Oasis » Forums » Business School Barrage
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BEST grad schools for active equities trading/prop trading
 

Bourbon's picture
Bourbon
      ST
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 5/3/11 at 8:15pm

First off:

-The GI Bill pays me to go to grad school
-Most schools I am cashflow positive 20-40k over 2 years
-I will ONLY consider a career prop trading
-I am not looking for a quant/MFE program, I am doing 200-300% a year pattern trading

Avoid reiterating the regular general MBA suspects Wharton, Columbia, Chicago, NYU like a US News magazine, unless talking about their trading competitions, trading floors, trading classes, trading clubs.

I am looking for equity trading specific programs that have something unique, like Tulane, Penn State, Princeton MFin, etc

The two considerations are:

-A good part time/night MBA/Mfin where I could trading during the day at a prop firm
-A full time program where there is oppurtunity to do competitions and be in a good trading club.

Please try to retain your 'you don't need a grad degree for that' or why prop trading comments

I will compile a list and later do a risk/reward matrix specifically designed for this.

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Tags:
  • MBA
  • MSF
  • Grad School
  • Active Traders
  • Active Equity Trader
  • Business School Barrage
IMSOSMOOVE's picture

I'm using my 911 GI Bill

IMSOSMOOVE
      O
 
(Senior Chimp, 22
 
Points)
 on 5/3/11 at 8:43pm

I'm using my 911 GI Bill also. I would look at NYU or Columbia. I hear NYU's part time program is good for S&T. The only thing is I found that being in a part time program hampers your opportunity to get an internship. The internship is where they get to assess your abilities. So the full time option works better if you want to assure you are able to transition from military to business seamlessly. If your married like me find a state school so its cheaper and network yourself to death. My ordeal is doing an internship in my last semester at a firm for free that only recruits guys from BB's after their first few years. Just so I can have the internship on my resume.

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surferdude867's picture

IMSOSMOOVE wrote: My ordeal

surferdude867
      O
 
(Baboon, 147
 
Points)
 on 5/3/11 at 9:21pm
IMSOSMOOVE:

My ordeal is doing an internship in my last semester at a firm for free that only recruits guys from BB's after their first few years. Just so I can have the internship on my resume.

That sucks brother.

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Bourbon's picture

IMSOSMOOVE wrote: I'm using

Bourbon
      ST
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 5/3/11 at 11:22pm
IMSOSMOOVE:

I'm using my 911 GI Bill also. I would look at NYU or Columbia. I hear NYU's part time program is good for S&T. The only thing is I found that being in a part time program hampers your opportunity to get an internship. The internship is where they get to assess your abilities. So the full time option works better if you want to assure you are able to transition from military to business seamlessly. If your married like me find a state school so its cheaper and network yourself to death. My ordeal is doing an internship in my last semester at a firm for free that only recruits guys from BB's after their first few years. Just so I can have the internship on my resume.

IMSOSMOOVE,

Yea I am really grateful they redid the GI Bill, it is a hell of an opportunity. So I am assuming you are coming out as an officer? I am actually prior enlisted and am finishing my undergrads in 2012 so I was able to do two internships as an analyst at different mutual funds, one of which is ranked #1 in it's Morningstar catagory now.

NYU and Columbia are very appealing to me but I only have a 3.5 GPA/710 GMAT and am going straight from a state school with no post bac exp. I think there is a chance, but I am no outstanding candidate in admin's eyes, so I need to make a contiegency plan.

Good to see other vet's lurking around WSO. Where are you going to school now IMSOSMOOVE?

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IMSOSMOOVE's picture

Bourbon wrote: IMSOSMOOVE

IMSOSMOOVE
      O
 
(Senior Chimp, 22
 
Points)
 on 5/4/11 at 12:41am
Bourbon:
IMSOSMOOVE:

I'm using my 911 GI Bill also. I would look at NYU or Columbia. I hear NYU's part time program is good for S&T. The only thing is I found that being in a part time program hampers your opportunity to get an internship. The internship is where they get to assess your abilities. So the full time option works better if you want to assure you are able to transition from military to business seamlessly. If your married like me find a state school so its cheaper and network yourself to death. My ordeal is doing an internship in my last semester at a firm for free that only recruits guys from BB's after their first few years. Just so I can have the internship on my resume.

IMSOSMOOVE,

Yea I am really grateful they redid the GI Bill, it is a hell of an opportunity. So I am assuming you are coming out as an officer? I am actually prior enlisted and am finishing my undergrads in 2012 so I was able to do two internships as an analyst at different mutual funds, one of which is ranked #1 in it's Morningstar catagory now.

NYU and Columbia are very appealing to me but I only have a 3.5 GPA/710 GMAT and am going straight from a state school with no post bac exp. I think there is a chance, but I am no outstanding candidate in admin's eyes, so I need to make a contiegency plan.

Good to see other vet's lurking around WSO. Where are you going to school now IMSOSMOOVE?

If I were you and finishing undergrad I would pick up a job for 2 to 4 years with the intent of heading to B school afterward. To command the money and position you want you need some street cred. If I came into your class to teach in the military and talked about war with nothing to back it up, it would fall on deaf ears. But if you see that combat action ribbon you know I'm not talking shit. Plus the networking you'll do might get you into somewhere that will open doors.

I'm at the Smith School of Business.

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IMSOSMOOVE's picture

surferdude867

IMSOSMOOVE
      O
 
(Senior Chimp, 22
 
Points)
 on 5/4/11 at 12:51am
surferdude867:
IMSOSMOOVE:

My ordeal is doing an internship in my last semester at a firm for free that only recruits guys from BB's after their first few years. Just so I can have the internship on my resume.

That sucks brother.

Yeah it sucks but, I love the suck! lol

There are two types in this world, rock-stars and groupies. When it gets tough groupies go home rock-stars keep playing. I'll be in NYC tomorrow playing my ass off for free after four hours of sleep. Easy day.

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Bourbon's picture

IMSOSMOOVE][quote=Bourbon

Bourbon
      ST
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 5/4/11 at 3:10am

[quote=IMSOSMOOVE]

Bourbon:
IMSOSMOOVE:

The only thing is I found that being in a part time program hampers your opportunity to get an internship. The internship is where they get to assess your abilities. My ordeal is doing an internship in my last semester at a firm for free that only recruits guys from BB's after their first few years. Just so I can have the internship on my resume.

If I were you and finishing undergrad I would pick up a job for 2 to 4 years with the intent of heading to B school afterward. To command the money and position you want you need some street cred. If I came into your class to teach in the military and talked about war with nothing to back it up, it would fall on deaf ears. But if you see that combat action ribbon you know I'm not talking shit. Plus the networking you'll do might get you into somewhere that will open doors.

I'm at the Smith School of Business.

I think you are confused. I was hoping to hear from those that trade equities, BB desks, prop traders, hedge fund traders, or investment firm traders, that had an experience at a trading centric or specialized program like Tulane, Carnegie Mellon, Penn State, Princeton MFin, Vandy MFin or something along those lines. Something with good links to trading competitions and good trader clubs.

No point in reiterating US news or bweek rankings.

I am not really sure what you mean by I need street cred. Typically when I talk to successful traders they will ask me what my track record is. I'll typically tell them while I have a lot to learn , I'll tell them my current YTD return in my pattern trading account (172%), my 5/5 #1 placements at collegiate stock comps and that I started a trading club and got my team qualified for the CME, Tulane, and Penn State competitions which we will be attending next year.

While I appreciate your attempt to help by suggesting I do as you did I really don't want to be in your shoes. I don't want to have to go to an MBA program with an acceptance rate of 87% or be in a school where my GMAT is116 points higher than the average students.

I am not sure whether you realized you were being an douche, but I think you need to realize relationship dynamics are different in the real world. There aren't people who will listen to your shit and won't give it back. A butter bar won't get you very far out here, you either succeed or you don't. Judging from your school profile (below) and your unpaid PWM internship I think you are headed for the latter.

You can either get pissed off at this or, hopefully, realize that 6 years of no negative feedback when you treated enlisted service members badly, you need to polish your soft skills, and retrain how you respond to people.

A lot of NCOs and Junior Officers are never able to get past this mentality, and it limits their success.

University of Maryland--College Park (Smith)

Admissions & Enrollment (Part-time)

Applicants (part-time)

Acceptance rate 86.7%
Average age of new entrants 29
Average undergraduate GPA 3.27
Undergraduate GPA range (10th-90th percentile) 2.71-3.85
Entrants providing undergraduate GPA 345
Average GMAT score 594
GMAT range (10th-90th percentile) 500-690
Students with prior work experience 342
Average work experience (months) 62

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D M's picture

Uh, just because he is going

D M
      O
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 4,810
 
Points)
 on 5/4/11 at 5:57pm

Uh, just because he is going into a different field in finance doesn't mean he isn't right. A lot of schools and businesses like to see experience.

Also, he was referencing teaching *a class in the military* and how having a combat action ribbon lends someone teaching a class like that credibility when talking about war. He wasn't being a douche, there's just some miscommunication here.

"WSO is like the 300 for anti spamage. None shall pass." -happypantsmcgee
"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer

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Bourbon's picture

D M wrote: Uh, just because

Bourbon
      ST
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 5/4/11 at 6:27pm
D M:

Uh, just because he is going into a different field in finance doesn't mean he isn't right. A lot of schools and businesses like to see experience.

Also, he was referencing teaching *a class in the military* and how having a combat action ribbon lends someone teaching a class like that credibility when talking about war. He wasn't being a douche, there's just some miscommunication here.

Yea I have got mine too as well as 4 plates/12 screws in my leg. At the end of the day that doesn't really matter for shit though, just some crap you throw in a box and put in your attic. I was asking for second opinions on the best MBA programs for trading out there, and his conclusion was I wasn't ready for an MBA, unlike him, because I was a Sergeant and he was a butterbar (junior officer).

Now that we've gone quite off topic...

Would love to hear from some people that have participated in the tulane energy trading competition, the smeal comp, or the traders trophy last year, and what schools you saw represented well or had experiences with.

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SalGr's picture

"-The GI Bill pays me to go

SalGr
      AM
 
(Baboon, 139
 
Points)
 on 5/4/11 at 6:37pm

"-The GI Bill pays me to go to grad school
-Most schools I am cashflow positive 20-40k over 2 years
-I will ONLY consider a career prop trading
-I am not looking for a quant/MFE program, I am doing 200-300% a year pattern trading"

A little bit too cocky???

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Bourbon's picture

How is this cocky? Just

Bourbon
      ST
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 5/7/11 at 12:57am

How is this cocky?

Just giving background as to factors that impact my decision. As per my return that is with a smallish line and of course I would have diminishing returns as the line get larger, just showing I am semi decent trading basis.

As per the GI Bill it is what it is, and the cashflows are what they are. It is like that for anyone.

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RagnarDanneskjold's picture

I'd like to offer some

RagnarDanneskjold
      HF
 
(King Kong, 1,031
 
Points)
 on 5/7/11 at 2:08am

I'd like to offer some help/insight. One of the first questions your going to be asked anywhere is: your 200-300% returns...on how much capital? sharpe ratio? avg. duration? etc. Just trying to get a better feel for where your at.

We have a lot of entry level guys apply with "trading records" and they usually get a smirk, not much else. There' are many good master's programs out there that focus on trading without too much crazy math/high-level programming.

Also, by prop firm do you mean a straight prop shop or any aspect of prop trading a la HF, bank, etc.?

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JimboUSC's picture

isnt a junior officer higher

JimboUSC
      IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 233
 
Points)
 on 5/7/11 at 9:46am

isnt a junior officer higher than a sergeant?

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Im with Busey's picture

SalGr wrote: "-The GI Bill

Im with Busey
      IB
 
(Baboon, 171
 
Points)
 on 5/7/11 at 10:24am
SalGr:

"-The GI Bill pays me to go to grad school
-Most schools I am cashflow positive 20-40k over 2 years
-I will ONLY consider a career prop trading
-I am not looking for a quant/MFE program, I am doing 200-300% a year pattern trading"

A little bit too cocky???

How could you possibly accuse this guy of being cocky? He knows what he wants to do, which is a lot more than the average dipshit on this site.

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shorttheworld's picture

Yeah I think you have some

shorttheworld
      EN
 
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 4,312
 
Points)
 on 5/8/11 at 11:09pm

Yeah I think you have some air of arrogance about you and that's going to kill you off for opps. Prop desks get plenty of kids who are overtly confident coming in and they get torn up and not invited back for second rOunds. The reason that Columbia and Chicago are constantly pushed is because they are the best "trading" schools -- Wharton and Harvard are of course great but I feel These two shine more strongly. Maryland is a solid undergrad school before you bash it..

I need a crib, a big estate, I need a boat and that need a lake, I need some salmon that need a plate, that need a chef so I feed my safe

From trading equities to slanging wine in Latin America

A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what a ship i

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shorttheworld's picture

If your strategy was so

shorttheworld
      EN
 
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 4,312
 
Points)
 on 5/8/11 at 11:11pm

If your strategy was so successful then why would you need to go to grad school for it? Just plug in and print money.

I need a crib, a big estate, I need a boat and that need a lake, I need some salmon that need a plate, that need a chef so I feed my safe

From trading equities to slanging wine in Latin America

A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what a ship i

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Elisha Strait's picture

Most schools teach theories

Elisha Strait
      CO
 
(Senior Chimp, 20
 
Points)
 on 5/9/11 at 3:42am
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IMSOSMOOVE's picture

Bourbon][quote=IMSOSMOOVE

IMSOSMOOVE
      O
 
(Senior Chimp, 22
 
Points)
 on 5/10/11 at 11:42am
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Bourbon's picture

RagnarDanneskjold wrote: I'd

Bourbon
      ST
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 5/11/11 at 6:16pm
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Bourbon's picture

shorttheworld wrote: . The

Bourbon
      ST
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 5/11/11 at 6:32pm
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Bourbon's picture

Elisha Strait wrote: Most

Bourbon
      ST
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 5/11/11 at 6:33pm
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Bourbon's picture

IMSOSMOOVE wrote: Sorry I

Bourbon
      ST
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 5/11/11 at 7:45pm
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The Web Site may contain links to third party web sites. These links are provided solely as a convenience to you and not as an endorsement by the Company of the contents on such third-party Web sites. The Company is not responsible for the content of linked third-party sites and does not make any representations regarding the content or accuracy of materials on such third party Web sites. If you decide to access linked third party Web sites, you do so at your own risk.

No Resale or Unauthorized Commercial Use.

You agree not to resell or assign your rights or obligations under these Term of Use. You also agree not to make any unauthorized commercial use of the Web Site.

Limitation of Liability.

The aggregate liability for the Company to you for all claims arising from the use of the Materials is limited to $1.

Termination.

The Company reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to pursue all of its legal remedies, including but not limited to immediate termination of your registration with or ability to access the Web Site and/or any other service provided to you by the Company, upon any breach by you of these Terms and Conditions or if the Company is unable to verify or authenticate any information you submit to the Web Site registration with or ability to access the Web Site.

Indemnity.

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the Company, its officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any claims, actions or demands, including without limitation reasonable legal and accounting fees, alleging or resulting from your use of the Material or your breach of the terms of these Terms and Conditions. The Company shall provide notice to you promptly of any such claim, suit, or proceeding and shall assist you, at your expense, in defending any such claim, suit or proceeding.

General.

The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

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Inspired by comments from this: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/basic-guide-ramping-up-on-a-company-with-public-information-part-1-of-3 Lets just jump in. <strong>Technology:</strong> In this space there are really two metrics that matter the most, sales growth and EPS...
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