Comparing MBB
I haven't seen a comprehensive comparison of MBB from searching (my apologies if this has been done and I just can't find it).
There's obviously a lot of knowledge on this forum, can you guys help me understand how MBB stack up against one another? Also, how are Booz (not BAH) and Delloitte similar/different? How big of a step down from MBB are they?
I ask this through the lens of someone who is fortunate enough to be interviewing with some of these firms, and I would like to get a better understanding of how they compare if I am fortunate enough to get multiple offers as well as just a deeper understanding to help me ask better questions of the consultants I'm meeting.
1) Internal: How does life differ at each? Hours, compensation, culture, coworkers, etc... Also, which is best/worst to make along term career out of?
2) External: How are the firms perceived from the outside by those in the know? How does this translate to exit opportunities?
3) Nature of work: Do the types of clients/mix of work differ greatly? Does exposure to different types of work also differ?
Thanks in advance for any insight you guys can offer!
McKinsey - Harvard Bain -
McKinsey - Harvard
Bain - Princeton
BCG - Yale
McK > Bain = BCG in terms of prestige
Bain = McK > BCG in terms of PE exit opps
Bain > BCG . McK in terms of culture (in my opinion)
First, get the offers, then
First, get the offers, then ask the high-class questions.
In the meantime, you can deduce how they compare by the following:
http://firmsconsulting.com/ranking-mckinsey-bain-b...
http://consultingmag.com/article/ART852138T?C=V1hR...
McKinsey's getting a bit shafted in the rankings right now because of the bad culture and recent scandals, but it's still undoubtedly the most prestigious firm to work for of the three. Not necessarily the best, but definitely the most prestigious.
goldman in da house
McKinsey - Harvard
Bain - Princeton
BCG - Yale
McK > Bain = BCG in terms of prestige
Bain = McK > BCG in terms of PE exit opps
Bain > BCG . McK in terms of culture (in my opinion)
I hate to have to say it, but this is actually pretty accurate.
A lot of people do certain things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.
I would say BCG is more
I would say BCG is more Princeton (more old-world and buttoned-up) and Bain is Yale (good culture and people are very happy to be there).
I think I agree with
I think I agree with Darkstar. It's a pretty good analogy, and the inequalities aren't bad. But I didn't go to Princeton or Yale, so I don't know what they're like; BCG is definitely more conservative and cerebral than Bain.
One of those lights, slightly brighter than the rest, will be my wingtip passing over.
1) From what I have seen, MBB
1) From what I have seen, MBB has a tendency to hire the following personality types:
McK - well-rounded with certain standout qualities
BCG - academically accomplished, book-smart people
Bain - cool frat bros
2) In terms of culture, this has been my impression:
McK - work hard, play hard
BCG - work moderately hard, play moderately hard
Bain - don't work too hard, play hard
Personally, I like McK and Bain more than I do BCG in terms of culture, because I would rather work at a firm where I could either take on the most amount of responsibility and develop professionally as fast as possible (McK) or have the most amount of fun (Bain). BCG seems to be somewhat in-between, which I don't think I would like as much.
3) Prestige-wise, I agree with what has been said above:
In the US, McK > BCG = Bain.
I would also like to add that globally, the prestige ordering is McK > BCG > Bain (but there are certain markets where the prestige ranking is different). McK has the largest market share world-wide, and its research is the most cited out of MBB. McK will give you the best set of exit ops to any part of the world in any industry. Also, the alumni network of McK is simply unparalleled.
In terms of b-school admission, people from MBB seem to fare very similarly, though I have read before that McK is slightly better than BCG and Bain. It wouldn't surprise me if top b-schools like HBS and Stanford, which care a lot about the prestige and the selectivity of the prior work experience of their student body, slightly preferred applicants from McK over those from BCG and Bain.
4) Compensation-wise, the three firms are comparable for the most part.
5) The nature of work is pretty much the same across the three firms. I think though that McK and BCG tend to serve bigger clients than Bain. Bain's strength lies in its work in PE.
6) MBB are definitely a tier above Booz and Deloitte.
In regards to your question about which of the three would be the best for making a long-term career out of, I think it really depends on how you fit into the culture. For the most part, MBB are very similar to one another, so the impact of the differences in culture on your career development will most likely dwarf that of any marginal differences prestige, compensation, etc.
Good luck with recruiting!
Strangely enough, I have yet
Strangely enough, I have yet to meet anyone ever from BCG. It's really weird, I've met tons of McK and Bainies alums in various functions, but never a BCG guy. Weird...
freeloader wrote: Strangely
Strangely enough, I have yet to meet anyone ever from BCG. It's really weird, I've met tons of McK and Bainies alums in various functions, but never a BCG guy. Weird...
You probably have, but they didn't mention it. In my section at HBS, McKinsey and Bain alumni were significantly more likely to say that they were from their respective firms when making comments than BCG alumni. Think "When I worked at McKinsey, xyz". I kind of appreciate that humble attitude about BCG alums.
In case you're wondering, the McKinsey and BCG alums were definitely a little smarter than the Bain alums in my section as well. They were also much better represented in the honors list. All three seemed to party equally hard though.
I think hours and culture can
I think hours and culture can vary a lot by office, but I hear that in Toronto at least McKinsey work a lot (20+ /week) more hours than BCG. Apparently BCG actually goes to some effort to try to prevent people from working themselves to death.
Not relevant here but I also hear that Monitor in Toronto is known for being horrible in terms of hours.
I worked at one of MBB for
I worked at one of MBB for three years, and know many people from both of the other two firms (I'll try to keep hidden which one I worked at in this post, but that will probably be difficult).
Before getting into my views on the three firms, let me caveat all of this by saying that all three are great firms to work for. Also, they all recruit from the exact same sources and hire people with very similar profiles. While there is some self-selection in terms of fit/culture, the truth is that the differences in culture/quality are at the margins and all three firms are great.
I largely agree with the above in prestigious rankings. McK > Bain = BCG. Someone on this forum once said that many people who work at Bain or BCG would switch to McK if they could. I doubt that is actually true, but it is an interesting thought.
I also agree with the above on exit opps, at least at the analyst level. They are largely similar, except for PE, where McK and Bain outperform BCG.
I also agree on b-school chances. All three firms perform very well. McK probably appears to outperform because it is so much bigger than the other two, but proportionally, they are similar.
As to your other questions:
- Hours: similar for all three. People outside the industry "think" McK people work more hours, but that isn't true. At all three firms, you'll work until midnight (with a break for dinner) Mon-Wed. On Thu, you'll fly home around 6pm and actually get home around 10pm. On Fri, you do very little work and leave by 5pm (or stay for happy hour). Weekend work varies considerably depending on your particular engagement. This varies considerably depending on your specific engagement (e.g., PE due diligences are much worse).
- Compensation: at all levels up to manager, they are the +/- the same. At the partner level, the firms compensate differently so it varies. Bain and BCG are on an "eat what you kill" model (it isn't pure eat what you kill - there is some shared revenue). At McK, all revenue is shared, so all partners earn the same income (adjusted for performance rating). So there is much higher beta at Bain and BCG, and the highest earners earn more than McK partners. But, because McK charges more in fees, average partner comp is higher.
- Culture: biggest difference is at the analyst level. The reason has more to do with firm operating models than it does anything intrinsic to the cultures themselves. Every year, ~80% of McK's and BCG's hires are post-graduate (MBA, JD, MD, PhD, etc.) and only ~20% undergraduate. At Bain, the ratio is more like 50/50. Additionally, at McK and BCG, undergraduates (analysts) travel full time and report directly to the "manager" on the engagement team. At Bain, analysts (called "associate consultants") travel less (they still travel, but not full time), and they report to a post-grad ("consultant" or "associate", depending on the firm), rather than a manager. As a result, you have a much larger (proportionally) number of analysts that are hanging out in the office more frequently. Therefore, Bain's culture is younger and generally considered "more fun".
- Best/worst for long-term career: all three are great. Can't go wrong. But if you're interviewing for analyst positions, you'll end up leaving for b-school/industry/PE anyway, so lots of time to worry about that.
- External perception: depends on industry. Bain butters their bread in PE, and most PE firms think Bain delivers the best diligence (I work for a large PE firm now, and this is definitely true at my firm). I will note, however, that McK is making a big push in PE (our coverage partner from McK is working hard to earn greater share of wallet at our firm). For F500 clients, each one has their "favorite" firm to use (specifically, each EVP or CxO has his/her favorite). In other words, everyone knows and respects all three firms, and you're in good shape if any of them are on your resume. There is no "absolute" best from a perception standpoint among the three.
- Nature of work: as stated, Bain does more PE (proportionally). Otherwise, all three firms do a nice mix of strategic and operational work. Each firm has strengths in certain industries, so if you have a very strong industry preference, you should ask about this during interviews. However, the whole point of the analyst program is to experience a wide array of industries, so you should plan to do a mix of things.
- Exposure: given the operating model discussed above, exposure is greater at McK and BCG. Also, responsibility is higher at McK and BCG, as analysts report directly to the manager and interact directly with senior clients more frequently. Again, though, the amount of responsibility/exposure at Bain is higher than pretty much any other job, so still a great place to be.
Final thing I'll note is those rankings that redninja posted are complete garbage. They are all self-reported, so firms work to inflate their rankings (e.g., HR will send emails telling everyone to submit the surveys and give high scores [it isn't that explicit, but the message is obvious]).
Roland Berger and OC&C in top 5 in firmsconsulting.com? Give me a break. No offense to anyone who works at those firms, but this is not what clients would say (which is what matters most).
North Highland and Point B consulting in top 5 in consultingmagazine.com? Ridiculous. North Highland isn't even a management consulting firm. It is a loose network of industry experts that now consult under a shared brand name. Again, this is not what clients would say.
Besides, those ranking websites change the rankings every few years anyway in order to generate page views. Same way the MBA rankings randomly switch things up every so often (e.g., one of the major MBA rankings put UChicago number one a few years ago. Again, that is not what companies who hire MBA grads, or MBA grads themselves, would say, which are the audiences that matters).
Anyway, the proof is in the pudding. Only MBB can charge the rates they charge. Capitalism would dictate that they can charge such high rates because the market values their services thusly.
Wow - this was longer than I expected. Guess that's what happens when I'm sitting here watching the Emmy's with my wife haha.
woah, excellent post
woah, excellent post DagwoodDeluxe!
Roland Berger and OC&C in top 5 in firmsconsulting.com? Give me a break. No offense to anyone who works at those firms, but this is not what clients would say (which is what matters most).
No love for the Europeans I see!
who do you see right behind MBB?
DagwoodDeluxe wrote: Wow -
Wow - this was longer than I expected. Guess that's what happens when I'm sitting here watching the Emmy's with my wife haha.
lol thats the most important part of the whole post... lol
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DagwoodDeluxe wrote: I worked
I worked at one of MBB for three years, and know many people from both of the other two firms (I'll try to keep hidden which one I worked at in this post, but that will probably be difficult).
...
Someone on this forum once said that many people who work at Bain or BCG would switch to McK if they could. I doubt that is actually true, but it is an interesting thought.
...
Weekend work varies considerably depending on your particular engagement. This varies considerably depending on your specific engagement (e.g., PE due diligences are much worse).
...
Final thing I'll note is those rankings that redninja posted are complete garbage. They are all self-reported, so firms work to inflate their rankings (e.g., HR will send emails telling everyone to submit the surveys and give high scores [it isn't that explicit, but the message is obvious]).
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you work at McKinsey.
- Only McKinsey consultants would ever entertain the thought that Bain/BCGers would switch to McKinsey.
- Only McKinsey consultants would ever call call their work an "engagement." I'm surprised you didn't use "study". - Only McKinsey consultants are offended by the rankings - mostly because they always come in far behind both BCG and Bain in the rankings.
There's a reason McKinsey always wins the prestige rankings and never wins the general rankings. Because McKinsey has horrible culture. Unlike Bain and BCG, where consultants actually want to go back and enjoy their time there, McKinsey people get burned out like crazy and many are absolutely miserable even though they pretend like their shit don't stink. With nothing else to hold on to, McKinsey people point desperately to their rankings and try to delude themselves by claiming they work the same hours as Bain and BCG. It's not true. I would know, I spent the summer at McKinsey, and the culture was so toxic that even though I have an offer to go back, I think I'm going to try to switch to Bain or BCG - because I value the quality of my life.
Redninja, you don't have to
Redninja, you don't have to get all pissy because I said the rankings you posted are garbage. And attempting to deduct which firm I worked for doesn't change the fact that those rankings are, indeed, garbage.
Like I said above, the rankings are *self-reported*, which destroys their objectivity. The ideal survey would be of clients. Of course, this is impossible (all three firms do this internally, but obviously don't publish results), so I acknowledge that self-reporting is the best proxy we have available to us. That being said, you have to take that lack of objectivity into account when evaluating results. I literally got emails from HR encouraging us to populate the surveys, and I know for a fact my friends at the other two firms did as well...
I do agree that McKinsey's culture has taken a hit over the last 18 months, given the Rajat Gupta and Anil Kumar scandals (for those of you who don't know about these scandals, I recommend reading up on them). There is no doubt that those scandals put a serious chink in the armor of a firm that prides itself on integrity, putting clients first, etc. So I suppose it is unsurprising to see Bain and BCG usurp McK's long-standing pole position in these rankings (for those who are interested, while I think these rankings are dumb, Vault's rankings do have a better methodology).
Anyway, to assert a massive difference in quality of culture, while using only these stupid surveys as evidence, doesn't work. Also, using words like "toxic" to describe the culture of a place that *most* employees love working at, and *most* outsiders would love to work at, also doesn't work, and sounds pretty trollish to me.
Finally, your perspective on hours worked per week is completely wrong. Do you not have friends at these other firms? I have plenty of friends at both, and they worked the same number of hours I did. My Bain friends who were in the PE rotation worked more (by a lot). Sounds like your personal experience on one engagement this summer was pretty negative, but that isn't sufficient to make a generalization about all three firms. You need to network with people from other firms to find out the truth (outside of the recruiting process, where everyone magically enjoys a wonderful work-life balance). If you switch to Bain or BCG, you'll be working identical hours, and more if you do PE work (which at Bain, is almost required, b/c it represents such a large portion of all work they do). The truth is that the difference in hours between the three firms is negligible.
Not sure why I'm defending McK so much... the firm definitely has its negatives. I guess your gross overstatement got me agitated haha.
The reason you're defending
The reason you're defending McK is because you worked at McK. If nothing else, the fact that you use the term "engagement" gives it away. BCG has Project Leaders and McKinsey has Engagement Managers. You really need to own the fact that you worked at McK, you're embarassing yourself.
My perspective on both the hours worked and the culture does not come from the rankings, but rather, from my own experience and from the experiences of friends who spent the summer there and friends who worked there before b-school.
I know literally zero Bainees who've ever said anything negative about Bain's culture or work/life balance. I also know almost zero BCGers who have said anything bad about BCG's culture or work/life balance. A lot of Bainees and BCGers want to go back to their firms, but far fewer McKinsey people do. I know a LOT of McK alums who complain like crazy about McK culture and work/life balance and don't want to go back.
The culture at the McK office I spent the summer at wasn't bad because of the Rajat Gupta thing - although that was unfortunate - but for other reasons. One of the reasons was the hours. You're right, the sheer number of hours worked is probably the same at all three - but the predictability was much worse at McK. My friends who were summers at Bain were coddled, so they don't count, but my BCG friends had a lot of control over their hours and when they were able to get breaks. I had none of that, and was worked to the bone. Other McK summers I talked to had similar experiences.
Just about the only thing consistent about McK is that McK consultants love to say "I have no doubt McK is the best firm." My friends who worked at BCG/Bain would rave about how awesome their co-workers were and how much they loved the culture. The McKinsey people were just proud of the fact that they worked at McKinsey, and were mixed about their fellow consultants. It's like a shield people put up to drown out the truth about where they work.
Yes, the rankings are self-reported, but they're self-reported by all three firms to compare things like culture and work/life balance. The rankings reflect the truth, and it really hurts McK consultants, who have nothing but prestige to hold on to, to see their beautiful firm being ranked in 3rd place.
NOTE: My experience was not completely consistent with my friends. I DO know some people who had a great time at McKinsey - especially the Southern Office people. It really feels like McKinsey culture is office specific, with some offices being horrible, and others being quite nice.
DagwoodDeluxe wrote: Like I
Wow, consultants (and former
DagwoodDeluxe wrote: -
peggy_ice wrote: This was the
I'll be honest... i dont care
"Know what to do, know how to do it, and do it hard." - Juan Castillo
If you are in the Toronto Area join my group "Toronto Prospective Monkeys"
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International Pymp
redninja
A lot of people do certain things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.
Redninja, the above post was
My formula for success is rise early, work late and strike oil - JP Getty
A Posse Ad Esse wrote: You're
I hardly post on here anymore
A lot of people do certain things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.
Awesome thread
Redninja - apologies to you
DagwoodDeluxe wrote: Other
A lot of people do certain things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.
Without trying to rekindle a
A bit off topic regarding
redninja wrote: freeloader
redninja
At one of the other non-MBB
"Buy gas. It's a sure-fire commodity with no risk except for the sure risk of fire." - Stephen Colbert
Quote: I'm surprised that the
peggy_ice wrote: Quote: I'm
Throw in my 2 cents, BCG
Now that we already compared
My formula for success is rise early, work late and strike oil - JP Getty
I would agree with something
.
"'In summary, people are morons and who cares. Make a shit ton of money. I've never seen a Ferrari paid for by what people think.' - ANT" -rufiolove
freeloader: I find it a bit
"'In summary, people are morons and who cares. Make a shit ton of money. I've never seen a Ferrari paid for by what people think.' - ANT" -rufiolove
bobthebuilder325: What I
so we meet again
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Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points
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baykus: bobthebuilder325:
I love these p*ssing contest
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