MBB Consulting -> Top Tier IBD

Hi all,

Jerry is currently a non-MBA 3rd year consultant at MBB Europe and wants to switch to a top-tier M&A investment bank (think JPM/GS/MS).

Academic background: Non-business, but technical (think BSc+MSc engineering/computer science/maths). Non-target school GPA 4.0 and GMAT 770.
Consulting background: Non-finance, mostly technology.

How would he do that? Can he do it without having to quit his MBB job first (= avoid internship ...)?

Location: English-speaking, whatever is most realistic.
Entry-level: Analyst/Associate, whatever is more realistic.

Cheers,
Jerry

 

You should go the boutique route. There are tons of great boutiques in almost every major city, so I highly recommend you start applying to as many of them as possible. You are looking for fit and some firm / boss that will see your potential and hire you because they believe in you. Good luck **)

############ ############ ############ The time is now, seize the day ...
 

if you're already there why does it matter? if the answer's no are you going to quit your internship or not apply for future bb internships? if the answer's yes are you going to have an orgasm all over yourself?

the short answer is i doubt it'll hurt anyways, and if this isn't your junior summer it'll probably help a good deal. orgasm away...

 

two were interns who got jobs at investment banks one was an analyst who got a corporate development job one was an associate who went to go do something entirely different

in these economic times i would think it to be one of the better "wait and see" type jobs out there

consulting is generally pretty highly thought of by ibanks and the like, also by b-schools

despite the two people i know who went to ibanks, i would still think it better preparation and more related to investment management jobs

 

I would say no unless you are at MBB; but if you are at MBB -- why leave?

Consulting is for the most part a completely different skill set than investment banking and to be frank a lot of bankers look down on it.

I would still take MBB over a top bank at an entry level position because while the lifestyle is rough with travel, the hours are still more reasonable than banking.

 

^^^Agree, there are hundred of things on this site about this subject. Mentioning something would be a waste of time. But it's a Sunday so here we go....

When you go to bschool you have plenty o f opportunities to get into IB associate position. Healthcare can help you get into IB healthcare group. Nothing to worry about.

Please search before you ask because on a regular day this would be a no answer...:)

Do what you want not what you can!
 

ok, yea i knew id get flamed for that but i wasnt really sure the likelihood of non-target science backgrounds who do life sciences consulting getting into ibanking. i have no finance nor economics background, so even with an MBA...i wasnt sure what a ibank would necessarily think...especially a BB

 

with good consulting experience and with top MBA you will be able to get some interviews with IB firms and then it's how you sell yourself on the interviews.

Do what you want not what you can!
 

You really want to focus on the similarities - the analytical points, the attention to detail, the tearing into a company (especially the financials), the demanding schedule, etc. These are all things that both fields have in common, and, experience in these area, should absolutely help steer you in the right direction. I don't think that you should have a terribly difficult time breaking into banking (especially on a boutique level), assuming you can eloquently capture your consulting experiences (those that would be marketable to banking), your genuine interest in the position (and why you feel that you will fit better in and generally enjoy banking more), and any additional skills/knowledge that you can bring to the table (examples, strong GPA, finance/accounting coursework, etc). It's a tough market out there, but you definitely have a leg up over much of your competition.

IBanker www.BankonBanking.com Articles, News, Advice and More Break Into Investment Banking

 

Sure, you have a shot. But if you "hate" your consulting job, are you sure that IBD is the right track for you? Or are you doing it because you view working in an IBD as more prestigious? I recommend taking a step back and really asking yourself this is what you want to do (at least for now).

If you started working in November, I would make sure you at least hit the 1-year marker at your consulting firm, otherwise that's going to raise some flags when people review your resume. Just a thought.

Cheers.

Capitalist
 

I wouldn't say easily. I made the switch, with a bit of effort. The best way is to have current colleagues / connections recommend you. If you work with well-connected people (whom you trust), reach out to them seeking their mentor-ship and see if they'd be willing to help you "learn more about the industry to see if it's a career path you would like to pursue" (a.k.a. put you in touch with their buddies at top banks). Then it's a matter of tailoring your resume to an IB skill-set and telling a convincing story in interviews. This is especially important if you're aiming to come in as a 2nd year Analyst. They'll ask questions about why you went into consulting rather than banking out of undergrad, and the like. PM me if you'd like to discuss.

best of luck

-- sm
 

Hey speedmerchant - can we discuss how you answer why switching from consulting to banking and what skills are transferable? I'm in consulting right now but really want to transfer to banking. Thanks!!

 

got a couple questions here: did you come in as a 2nd year analyst after completing 2 years of BA/AC from your consulting firm?

also, suppose that you're not keen on doing b-school and got a direct promote to post-mba level, eg. consultant, would you be able to lateral as an associate in banking? which would be easier: lateraling after 2 years of BA/AC to a 2nd year analyst position or after making consultant to an associate role in IB? payoff is obviously better in the 2nd scenario but I suspect it might be harder

 

Okay, for anyone else that might be wondering, here's my experience. Investment consulting is boring, and it isn't something that I (interested in banking/consulting) would want to do for the long run. I chose PWM, but there are ups and downs between both internships. PWM to bankers is codeword that you would like to get a job on wall street, and there is no getting around this. Several times through, I was asked by co workers whether I wanted to be a banker/trader lol, and I was told by the hiring manager that he understood that the internship would be a great start for other things. I was also told in an investment banking interview that the PWM did indicate that I did want to do banking. Investment consulting is totally different and not as many people are as familiar with it. Respect wise, no one is really going to care or differentiate between the two internships. Investment consulting is a lot more "legit" work then paper pushing at pwm (at least my offer was), but might have been better for trading. Bankers/guys in private equity don't really care about it and view every non banking/consulting/pe internships in the same regard and so it really doesn't matter what you choose in the end. Hope this helps!

 

I think its good enough. I busted my ass to get the internship alongside students from Stanford, UC Berkely and UC Davis. I got into this school out of a JC in Virginia. I was told by my highschool counselor that I wasn't college material and handed a flier from Job Corp. I didn't have as many resources as some and still plan on doing alright. I'm actually looking for advice and not criticism. Thanks again

 

The stats are very clear. The best path by a long shot into PE pre-MBA is from an IB analyst position. About 20% of people who go into PE have consulting experience, but closer to 90% have IB experience.

Typical profile of a candidate for a Top 50 Private Equity Firm (Pre - MBA) - http://bit.ly/4zKZUE

Gotta Mentor Connect to the Advice & People You Need to Achieve Your Career Goals
 

[quote=formerMD]The stats are very clear. The best path by a long shot into PE pre-MBA is from an IB analyst position. About 20% of people who go into PE have consulting experience, but closer to 90% have IB experience.

Typical profile of a candidate for a Top 50 Private Equity Firm (Pre - MBA) - http://bit.ly/4zKZUE[/quote]

What about the rest of the 150%?

 

Think about if you are a recruiter at a PE shop. You see tons of people with great IBD experience, who have modeling skills but no experience relevant to the asset management side of things. Consultants are great at analyzing business operations but have little relevant skill for acquisitions/valuation (compared to bankers).

By doing both, you will make yourself a standout candidate...

 

Your activity disclosed that you went to Bates.

Other than that, I think you are good. If you are not doing on campus recruiting then I think it'll be fine to remove the GPA.

Beef up.
 

(A) Can anyone confirm the MBA/MiF requirement?

If MBA/MiF indeed required: - Would entering at the Analyst level be an alternative option (w/o MBA/MiF)? If yes, would I be required to do an internship first? - Would an INSEAD MBA qualify for ASC positions (INSEAD seems to be better known for its consulting placement)?

(B) Any insights regarding point (2)? E.g., I've seen some promotional "we recruit non-traditional backgrounds" YouTube video by Morgan Stanley.

 
Best Response

I don't think the MBA / MiF is a requirement, but without it, it'll be a harder sell because you'll have to mostly rely on networking to get a job rather than having access to OCR in addition to the school network. INSEAD places well into BBs so it would be a great choice, although I would strongly recommend the Jan. entry so you can do and benefit from a summer internship. Networking is quite important (you have to do a million coffee chats to show your "commitment") so keep that in mind when comparing INSEAD and LBS.

Without going back to school, you'd also likely start as a first year analyst vs. associate out of MBA/MiF (my BB hired someone with a very similar profile as you right before I left and he started as a first year analyst). I don't think you'd be consider really as being from a non-traditional background though. They are many similarities between the 2 jobs as an analyst (client driven, fast pace, analytically driven, attention to detail, presentation, etc) so I think your experience will be very valuable. Regardless of your background, you are expected to know your stuff and to nail the technical part though, especially if you want to make a case that part of your consulting experience should be recognized.

As to how to make the transition happen, I would start by arranging coffee chats with your school and MBB alums working in the city. Introduce yourself and get their input on your goals, build relationships and put yourself in a position where they'll think of you if a position opens up at their bank. If you have done a lot of tech work, your experience could be very valuable to a TMT team so you might want to target that as well.

 

Start studying...it won't give you an edge over your more experienced counterparts, but if you don't have a background in banking, it will get you ahead. (level one and two can take a year to a year and a half)

If that's too arduous of a process for you, take the GMAT and blow it out of the water...you can then either shop around with that and see what happens or just go back to school...

"Cut the burger into thirds, place it on the fries, roll one up homey..." - Epic Meal Time
 

I'm afraid to mention the name specifically here, since ou never know who might be on these forums (my boss doesnt know I'm searching), but it is one of the top three (don't know if they have such a ranking system).

 

Would be to transition to an investment manager, such as Fidelity, T Rowe, etc. or perhaps the asset management arm of a BB. Frankly, IB and investment consoluting are many worlds apart.

If you're really dead-set on IB, I'd second the MBA -> IB associate route.

As far as the CFA goes, I'd advise against it. Most bankers don't have it, partially because the time commitment is too large (banker hours are insane as it is), and partially because the curriculum is focused on Asset Management / equity research, rather than IB.

I'd also have to recommend against backoffice work in IB. If you're truly interested in BO work by any chance, it's much better to be in S&T or at a hedge fund.

 

Rickets,

But don't you think most firms won't even look at him without some sort of proven solid financial foundation (CFA certification is highly regarded)

I mean we can assume that if he's in IConsulting now, he is certainly not working 70+ hour weeks, so he would have time to prepare.

I do agree with you about the IB back office entry. Although that could take just as much time to move to the front office than passing your CFA in two years. Your call...

"Cut the burger into thirds, place it on the fries, roll one up homey..." - Epic Meal Time
 

Does anyone think an internship at a I bank (if possibly attained) would increase my chances of at least passing the initial screen and landing an interview?

 
jkh:
Out of college, I went through a commercial banking Management Development Program and did credit analysis for a little over a year. I understand that commercial is crap and not at all respected by i-bankers - I felt the same and jumped to consulting.

I've been at a Big 4 consulting firm for three years and moved up the ranks pretty quickly (3 promotions in 27 months, where it normally takes about 6-7 years). I feel I am at a bit of a crossroads right now and am exploring options. Basically, I'm looking for thoughts on a transition into i-banking - feasibility, potential approaches, and realistic timeframes.

The major caveat is that I don't want to be a bottom-feeder. Pushing reset on my career is not an option. Not to be brash but I've fought my way up in consulting and to be shoulder-to-shoulder with fresh college grads would be mildly insulting. I understand that I would have much to learn about the business but I've led engagement teams of 6-8 people on high-profile projects and I've interfaced with and provided guidance to CFOs on a daily basis.

I don't want to go in through an infrastructure post because at least in consulting, I have seen little success in parlaying that into a client-facing role. The discussion about using an MBA as a springboard is a valid point but one I am already considering. I'm applying to b-schools right now as another potential option.

With this kind of an attitute you're going to have a difficult time getting into banking. The "Bottom-feeders" you speak of still make more than you. At this point, your only option is B-school unless you can talk a smaller shop into taking you on board.

 

I apologize if my original post rubbed you the wrong way. My point more or less is that I have built career equity in consulting and that I want to protect against its erosion with a jump into i-banking. I'm sure you would feel the same if you came into consulting - you would want your experience to be considered, not only in your pay but also in your title.

It's true that the lower level employees probably make more than me at a cursory glance. But, if we add some context to this discussion - location, per diems, and hours - I probably have the edge.

 
jkh:
I apologize if my original post rubbed you the wrong way. My point more or less is that I have built career equity in consulting and that I want to protect against its erosion with a jump into i-banking. I'm sure you would feel the same if you came into consulting - you would want your experience to be considered, not only in your pay but also in your title.

It's true that the lower level employees probably make more than me at a cursory glance. But, if we add some context to this discussion - location, per diems, and hours - I probably have the edge.

Sure, but you need to remember that investment banks follow a hierarchical structure. Without business school, making it to the Associate level is basically going to be impossible unless you have some really killer experience. The only examples I've seen of this are actually folks who've left banking and are coming back...one guy I know of did 2 years GS, 2 years disney CPG (corporate strategy), and came back as an Associate.

I hate to break it to you but the "Career equity" means very little to most bankers: you haven't been working on deals. Even guys who do two years at McKinsey or Bain come to banking as an Analyst before b-school.

To be frank, your best bet at this point is b-school. There is unfortunately no way to bank the time you've put in and cash it out (by coming in as an associate) unless you've done something really extraordinary.

 

If you start in banking, you'll get paid exactly what all the other mbas do. There'll be guys with a lot better and more relevant experience than you too.

That being said, you could leverage your "equity" and perhaps get promoted to vp and beyond faster. but you're gonna get the package everyone else gets

 

You will almost definitely need to start at as a 1st year associate at the very highest. A 1st year associate in my group lateraled from McK corp fin as an analyst and while he is one of our best associates now, he told me he struggled hard to get up to speed with the rest of his class. B-school will definitely get you in the door as a 1st year associate, I'm not sure if they would make you start as an analyst, either. Another associate of mine did 2 years industry, 3 years consulting, b-school then came in as a first year associate.

 

There is no way you would go McK BA -> bschool -> IB analyst.

I know that laterals are possible but most people choose not to do it b/c it entails a lot of wasted time. For example if you do a 2 year BA stint then try to transfer to an IB, you would come in as an analyst and it sucks being someone's bitch AGAIN. If consultants ever want to make the switch you usually do it post-MBA.

 

Why create 2 threads? And why do you want to switch from MBB? You should have a decent shot considering MBB experience as well as 12 month M&A experience, but why?

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.
 
Neighbor:
And why do you want to switch from MBB? You should have a decent shot considering MBB experience as well as 12 month M&A experience, but why?

Different strokes for different folks bub.

“...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” - Schopenhauer
 

You're guaranteed interviews during your masters, assuming it's at Oxbridge or LSE. Make sure you get on the recruiting train early because effectively the banking deadlines are shortly after the start of your masters program. PM me for details.

 

Quos odit suscipit totam nihil beatae. Quo corrupti est et voluptate aspernatur architecto ullam. Sequi maxime assumenda soluta doloremque cumque. Ut eius qui nihil error quisquam maiores. Quos quis sint perspiciatis culpa illo.

 

Error eaque saepe facere vel culpa eaque et. Iure dolores odio a incidunt error. Facilis esse quis vel. Illum nam quia fugit. Id possimus dolorem dolor harum voluptatem nam.

Sed autem numquam minus autem ut laboriosam. Eaque et rerum est aut.

Nam itaque qui impedit facere labore ea blanditiis. Blanditiis consequatur voluptatem laudantium illum praesentium voluptatem et. Architecto ullam velit quod iusto optio et officiis occaecati.

Numquam dolor debitis totam et ipsum cumque a in. Itaque beatae necessitatibus autem ipsa praesentium ipsum sint enim. Aut et fugiat aliquam cum veritatis ut voluptatibus delectus.

 

Quaerat sit enim molestiae fuga aut. Quia aliquid provident doloribus rerum. Quas earum voluptas repudiandae non placeat ipsum qui. Rem sit aperiam nam eveniet dolore. Ullam iusto accusamus nihil vero temporibus dolore blanditiis. Odit facilis ab assumenda. Earum veniam quo aut hic doloribus et libero.

Incidunt deserunt neque enim libero et impedit aut. Iure et est quia illo nisi expedita eveniet. Non quisquam beatae ad quia. Dolores ratione quisquam ut.

Fugiat atque dolor tempore commodi. Aut possimus deleniti excepturi magnam doloribus tenetur unde. Rerum occaecati harum occaecati cumque eum delectus nihil. Velit earum quo vel laboriosam deleniti. Eos molestiae consectetur sed cupiditate id eveniet.

Nemo eos rerum voluptas unde. Nam est dolor nobis vel. Saepe quidem minus dolores dignissimos. Officiis earum maiores et laboriosam harum. Sunt qui architecto aut rerum. Quo facere tempore qui dolores repudiandae.

I'm grateful that I have two middle fingers, I only wish I had more.
 

Sunt sapiente eos eos adipisci provident omnis sit. Quidem dolor earum minima dolor reiciendis adipisci soluta.

Rem aut ipsum sunt earum et omnis autem quibusdam. Voluptatem tenetur nam quia et qui. Laudantium officiis est laboriosam repudiandae qui rerum. Reprehenderit quaerat suscipit consectetur quia dicta natus est.

Accusantium consequatur temporibus error velit earum. Dolor qui nulla provident sed aut quasi accusamus et. Officiis eos nesciunt ratione nostrum a voluptate ducimus quos. Est nemo voluptas et nemo provident eos in. Qui cumque odit sed et voluptas non porro.

Nisi et itaque enim qui. Sunt numquam ab ab delectus. Odio omnis numquam quod et dolorum aperiam reiciendis. Voluptatem consequatur consectetur laboriosam qui consequatur illum. Eum est sunt sequi deleniti est. Ut inventore dolor maxime ducimus voluptatem.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
6
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
7
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
8
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”