Is this the beginning of the end for Goldman? The below article highlights how Morgan Stanley and JPMorgan both shat on Lloyd's doorstep, landing left of GS on the much anticipated Facebook IPO. What particularly telling is the fact that MS has bested Goldman on nearly all of the major tech IPO's as of late.
Don't get me wrong, GS is still the place to be... as much as McKinsey and Google are... but given all the recent let downs... can't help but think they may be on the verge of stumbling from their ivory tower.
So query: is this the beginning of the end for GS? They've gotten bruised and battered in the media along the last 2-3 years... from their "shitty deal" to the SEC fine levied against them... their prop shop (the cash cow of the firm) is largely being disbanded... they paid a relative pittance to their bankers this year (especially the jr. folk)... and I've heard they're dialing back base salaries below street levels. All that could be taken in stride... but now even the crown jewel of the Goldman franchise.... their TMT group... is getting Rhianna'ed all up and down Wall Street and Sand Hill Road. I think its suffice to say that Goldman has ran out of eyes to black and blue.
GSElevator GS Elevator Gossip
1: Facebook or no Facebook, we still pay better than Morgan Stanley. #2: That's the only scoreboard that matters.
https://twitter.com/#!/GSElevator/status/164831950346002432
so who is chris brown in this analogy?
For sure.
The beginning of the end of Goldman Sachs? Don't be so dramatic. Yes, being only joint books as opposed to lead left on the Facebook IPO is a disappointment for GS, but the firm still dominates in M&A globally, as well as in the U.S. tech space. GS was also #1 in equity and equity-linked offerings globally in 2011. Hard to see a downward trend when you look at the numbers...
Look back to the 70s, when Morgan Stanley was lead left on every major syndicate deal. They were the undisputed top of the bulge. Essentially, their demise began identically to what happened to Goldman yesterday - IBM asked that MS accept Salomon Brothers as co-manager on a mega deal. MS declined, IBM cut Morgan Stanley out of the deal, and the rest is history. Times change, and while Goldman is still the best today, they haven't always been top, and I'd take an even bet that they aren't #1 in global equity within 5 years, and that they don't lead in equity, m&a, or dcm globally within 15. Fuck, if UBS gets its shit together and works on sustainable core growth, they could be the next Goldman Sachs.
tl;dr version: Don't be a status whore. Care about who does good work, not who has what reputation.. this is what wins out long-term
This. You beat me to it. If you look back to 1940, it was probably someone else before MS. Leaders in ibanking ebb and flow just like everything else in the world -- countries, athletic dynasties, whatever. GS is still a great place to work. It might be on the decline, but they have a massive infrastructure of really talented people who are plugged in all over the world. People need to realize that MS vs. GS is not going to meaningfully change the trajectory of your career or make you a better person in life.
doesnt matter for junior guys. if you work for a decent gs group for 2 years, you are almost guaranteed for a nice buyside job down the road anyways. let's be real, almost none of us will continue to become an associate or go anything higher than that.
GS also invested in Facebook when it was at a $50B valuation.
ook.... meaning what? They doubled their investment as a principal investor (a business they're getting out of)? Also, of the return made by Facebook, those who came in at $50b+ are in the bottom decile.
just a consolation prize, no need to get worked up
rihanna needs to apologize for nearly ruining chris brown's career
Perceptions of prestige always lag well behind reality. Defs agree with Sandhurst on taking the long-term view
Are all of you forgetting that GS stands to make far more then anyone else on this FB IPO?
another fucking useless post by MH
Is this not just an indicator of their access to retail buyers, more than anything? I could care less about that.
It's about how Goldman shat the bed with a private offering a little while back. The consensus is this is why FB jumped to MS as their main bankers. I heard somewhere that Zuckerman holds a grudge.
Sandhurst, I see your point, but the thing is the MS situation might have started the same but this doesn't have to develop that way, at the end of the day it's just one deal right? And it's pretty clear they lost it after the whole private offering fuck up, but they were going to have it in the first place, which means they are still numero uno. Everyone screws something up from time to time although I wouldn't be surprised if someone at GS TMT got fired over this.
Also, what you say about going to the firm that does good work because it pays on the long-term is a good long-term strategy, but you need to consider the fact that smth like 80% or 90% of the people who go into GS IBD don't plan to stay more than 2 years, so they don't really care if in 5 they lose "the throne". They just want the best name on their CV, seize the exit ops and never look back, it's really short term.
Sorry if this has been discussed, i must say I skipped over the pissing contest in the middle of the thread,
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