Greenhill & Co Question
Anyone familiar with Greenhill? They are working on some monster deals with the LSE/Nasdaq mandate, Abbot Labs/Kos Pharma, and Visa (rolling up USA, CDA, and INTL) - how does this translate to quality of life issues (end of year bonus, working hours & flexibility, relevancy of first year analyst duties?) How do you see them comparing to others in their space, ie. Evercore, Gleacher, Lazard, etc.?
Also, working on these high profile deals should translate to great post-analyst exit opportunities, correct? Sure there are some pros/cons of working at a boutique vs. BB, but wouldn't a boutique with great deal flow and a great repuation be the best of both worlds? What am I missing?
Thanks in advance.
dude, when you can slam LSE/Nasdaq on you cv you better believe your "quality of life" will be good.
GHL is a great firm. But London is by far the best office (it's where the majority of GHL's earnings come from). They do some big deals, but they also dip into the middle market a bit. Prestige of the firm is high.
Compared to the other firms you mentioned, I would go with Greenhill over Gleacher since Gleacher doesn't do many deals (although does place decently well into PE because of the prestige). Evercore versus Greenhill would be a tougher decision; Greenhill's more prestigious, but Evercore has been kicking butt lately. I'd go with Lazard over Greenhill - more prestigious, better exit opps, much stronger deal flow, & bigger deals.
In terms of flexibility, you definitely will have more. But in terms of hours, they will be slightly less but not significantly better. Hours at Evercore and Lazard are just as bad as at a BB.
One other advantage or disadvantage (depending on how you look at it) of good boutiques is that they pretty much hire exclusively from a few top schools. I think GHL just goes to the ivys and Texas. They're small so they pretty much hire whoever they want (don't need to fill quotas etc) which translates into them hiring the truly most qualified people. But this also translates into them hiring a pretty much all white male, all ivy analyst class. I wouldn't really have a problem in that environment (although working with a sexy Latina from a state school has its benefits!) being as I am a white male from an ivy, but it's just something to consider.
If you're going to a boutique, just make sure you like the people.
Thanks rat4100 - very insightful.
Rat4100 is mostly correct, with the exception of a few things. GHL recruits at H/Y/P/Wharton/Texas/Virginia and that's pretty much it. None of other ivies make the cut either. I know of at least 3-4 indians (out of total 25 analysts hired over the the 3 year period) they've hired over the past 3 years in NY office. I'm sure they hire asians as well. But the people they do hire are top-notch at their school. I know that for a fact.
Exit opps are great. Analysts have landed jobs at TPG, Provience Equity, a few other middle market PE shops as well top-notch HF. I would go with Greenhill over Lazard because exit opps. at Lazard aren't much better, hours are much better, and more access to work with senior management and clients since it's so small.
Wow, I didn't realize they only hire from HYP/Wharton/Texas/Virginia and not even the other ivys. Although I think that's a broader range than Gleacher and Evercore actually.
I do know an Indian who works at GHL and I would assume there are a few more and some asians too, as scotttwibell says. But it's definitely a very white male heavy organization (as are all of the good boutiques). I don't think an asian or indian would actually have a problem at any of these organizations though since they seem very merit based and emphasize hiring people based on their smarts/academics (and at my school at least, they have definitely gave asians and indians offers although I 'm not sure if they just don't accept).
I would go to Lazard over Greenhill since I'd be willing to sacrifice the extra hours for the better exit opps and I guess I am a prestige whore. I'm think Lazard exit opps are definitely better (more analysts sent to top PE shops percentage wise, and pretty much guaranteed admission to harvard b-school), but you're right that it'll come at a price. That being said though, from speaking with a few analyst alums at GHL, it seems like they work very, very hard. But I have heard great things about the culture and I really liked the alums I spoke with.
Also, you should note that there is a substantial difference among a firm like Gleacher and Greenhill. Gleacher is tiny - like 7 analysts, whereas Greehill has about 17-20. Lazard has about 25 and is not really a boutique. From speaking with people at boutiques, it seems that they definitely have more flexibility - they can leave at 6pm Friday if they want to have a good night out, but that might mean that have to be in the office all weekend to get something done by Monday. I hear there really isn't the face time like there is at BBs (largely because there aren't a ton of people in the middle - VPs, associates, etc.) - you get your work done and get out.
Unless you've got a GS offer or maybe a top group at MS, I think GHL is a great choice. And even if you have a GS offer, I think you could probably end up in a relatively similar place after your analyst program from Greenhill (if you are a top performer at both places). I know people at my school who opted for the top boutiques over GS.
solid firm but be warned. mostly wharton hyp kids... they are pretty full of themselves.
they have problems retaining analysts for 2 years (not sure why) b/c during my interviews they kept asking if i would even think of leaving before 2 years.
solid name, great work, probably good pay and hours...but i would go Evercore over them.
but from what i've heard, in the last 3 years, the top 1-2 analysts in each class has been from either texas or virginia (undergrad finace major)
i hear the comp is great
From speaking to friends of mine who work in IB, and/or tried to get a job at Greenhill, I got the feeling that the firm is VERY selective only hiring outstanding candidates by which I don't mean nerds who got Firsts with 95% but people who excelled in BOTH academia - say very good First- as well as ECAs(in London pretty much 80% are from Oxbridge, which might be result of the fact that they only present at those two universities).
I think the comparisions between exit opps are irrelevant since sizes of analyst classes at different firms differ widely; even between Rothschild/Lazard and GHL; apparently GHL's global analyst class was bulge bracket banks (apparently another inofficial application criterion)and still decided to go to Greenhill. I found it especially funny that quite a high proportion of them got offers from Morgan Stanley -seems like an eternal rivalry between Bob Greenhill and MS;)
Also, they seem to be starting up their private equity business in London which means that as an analyst you will be working on both M&A deals and PE deals. I feel that that is a clear advantage for anyone who's considering going (or at least trying to..) into private equity. Apart from GS Principal Investment there is no bank where you could work on those deals straight out of uni.
Re Business school: Admission tutors are looking for a diverse class so I guess everything else being equal being at GHL wouldn't put you at a disadvantage compared to Goldman or MS, if at all I think it might improve the chances given the tiny analyst class. Also, Bob Greenhill donated a lot of money to HBS some time ago and they have named a building after him- this relationship between him and HBS might again be helpful.
I am currently applying for an internship there- if I get a place i would rank it above an offer from GS(except PIA).
is surely much lower than those at aforementioned independent banks.
Also, almost all of their analysts had offers from bulge bracket banks (apparently another inofficial application criterion)and still decided to go to Greenhill. I found it especially funny that quite a high proportion of them got offers from Morgan Stanley -seems like an eternal rivalry between Bob Greenhill and MS;)
Also, they seem to be starting up their private equity business in London which means that as an analyst you will be working on both M&A deals and PE deals. I feel that that is a clear advantage for anyone who's considering going (or at least trying to..) into private equity. Apart from GS Principal Investment there is no bank where you could work on those deals straight out of uni.
Re Business school: Admission tutors are looking for a diverse class so I guess everything else being equal being at GHL wouldn't put you at a disadvantage compared to Goldman or MS, if at all I think it might improve the chances given the tiny analyst class. Also, Bob Greenhill donated a lot of money to HBS some time ago and they have named a building after him- this relationship between him and HBS might again be helpful.
I am currently applying for an internship there- if I get a place i would rank it above an offer from GS(except PIA).
The analyst I know worked on banking side for a few years and now works in PE group within Greenhill. He had offers from MS and Lehman. The 4 analysts that I know who work there are very intelligent and social. They like to go out on the weekends and party it up. One guy worked on UAL restructuring as 1st year analyst and was working directly with their CFO. So tremendous levels of responsiblity and exposure. As for Bschool, they only recruit at H/W, so I'm sure you'll have just as good chances getting into HBS as you would at Lazard or GS. Plus there's only 3-4 analysts applying and not 20 or more at other banks.
agreed that a stint at Greenhill will provide an experience and exit opps on par with GS...without crushing you. seems to be an old school place that still cares about its employees.
Though I don't know if they took anyone this year. But it's definitely VERY VERY selective. They (and Gleacher) had the most extreme requirements to even apply of all of the IBanks.
"To Know Me Is To Love Me"-Jebus Price
I work at Greenhill, they recruit at ivey (CDN)
^ I smell BS. There's no way you work at Greenhill, just look at your other posts.
Greenhill took 1 junior from NYU-Stern for their SA class this past year. It is highly selective.
Greenhill & Co (Originally Posted: 12/01/2015)
I've read a great deal about Greenhill & Co. and of its "decline" over the past few years. Could someone provide some more insight regarding what's really happening over there and where Greenhill would fall in relation to the other Elite Botiques/ Top BB's?
I know Greenhill is still a very reputable firm but wanted to see if anyone from within the industry could provide their current advice, opinion and future outlook for the firm.
Greenhill still does fantastic in terms of exits (based on 2 of my friends who did their 2 years there and just recently exited to PE). So from an exit opps standpoint, Greenhill is fine. In fact both really loved the culture there too.
However in terms of the overall firm, Greenhill didn't really "decline" as much as its competitors (Evercore, Moelis, Lazard etc) had expanded both in size of the firm and consequently, the amount of dealflow. All 3 firms mentioned above have taken steps to expand significantly in one way or another in terms of poaching more bankers/adding staff, building Asset Management divisions, or in the case of Evercore, acquiring an equity research platform (ISI), and Lazard... well just being Lazard.
On the other hand Greenhill is kind of like a Japan - it stayed stagnant throughout, not really expanding in any way at all both in terms of staff, and in terms of other business lines (AM/Research etc). Of course inevitably investors start to compare Greenhill to its peers (after all Greenhill is public), and see that Evercore/Moelis/Laz are expanding and are increasing revenue etc. whereas Greenhill remains stagnant and they start complaining.
Hope this provides some background info - TL/DR I don't really have an opinion as to how the firm will do going forward, but from an exit opps standpoint, Greenhill analysts do great.
Is there any certain group in Greenhill that does better than others?
Completely echo what rx. said. I have a couple friends at GHL, one who exited and was my roommate, one still there. The culture there is pretty laid back (compared to the rest of banking ofc) with some of the nicest hours in M&A on the Street. The top analysts get to work on actual megadeals (Teva, Alcoa, etc.) with some of the leanest deal teams around while still going home a decent time. My buddies seriously rave about the culture.
Basically, everyone who wants to go PE goes. They do decent at the KKR/BX/Apollo types but the analysts there have a ton of track record with the prestige upper "MMs" (Providence/MDP/Silverlake/New Mountain/Warburg/H&F) type funds and I'd say a majority goes there since there's only like literally a dozen analysts per class firm-wide in the US apparently. I'd say, on a percentage basis, Greenhill seems to do as well, if not better, at placing than the rest of the EBs.
What my roommate said about the "slowing" is that the firm still has a small-partnership attitude towards upper-level recruiting where they rarely actually go out and poach a new partner unless the fit is perfect/they have an actual strategic need. It's not super conducive for a public company to do that essp with competitors like Evercore and Moelis hiring a shitton. Thus, the market thinks they're "declining" when really, it's just that they're not really growing (might not help with bonuses if stock is major portion of comp).
Overall, I agree with rx. in that I don't know where the firm is going to go. But the analyst experience of nice life and great exits is still one of the top out there.
The majority of analysts at GHL are most definitely not going to the upper MM fund like the ones you mentioned. At most there will be an analyst or two every year (usually from H/W) that go to those kinds of funds. Other analysts are going to much smaller but decent MM PE funds or Corp Dev.
Overall decent exit opps but nothing really exceptional that you can't get out of most BB groups. It is actually in decline (take a look at their annual reports on their website) but still not a bad place to be for an analyst stint.
I would go to GS/MS/JPM or Laz/Moelis before considering GHL if you ever get the opportunity.
Summer Analyst class size was 5 kids this past summer and they hired ~5 more FT. They generally do this every year and have classes of 10 kids.
I attended their summer reception which is basically their first round interview since its invite only and they select superday candidates straight from that. Really great people and very nice— a lot different feel from the bigger EBs like EVR/MC/LAZ. Personally wanted a bigger analyst class but I was impressed with how everyone at the firm genuinely liked it.
Just because there may be a couple of associates at those firms doesn't mean that they are all from the same analyst year. LinkedIN doesn't corroborate the kind of placement you are talking about. From your numbers you are saying that they send 5-7 analysts to the top PE funds (MF + Upper MM) which would be 50% - 70% of the class. Given that Greenhill doesn't even do many sponsor deals, I find this highly suspect.
MF and Upper Tier MM placement together is probably around 2 maybe 3 max each year. But you are right the rest of the analysts are going to much smaller but still decent funds so I don't doubt the 90% number. Most people gunning for PE from any halfway decent BB group can get into PE/HF, it's a matter of if it's a $75mm fund no one has ever heard of or a $1B + reputable fund.
Out of the EBs, Moelis/Lazard and what used to be BX had the best placement bar none. Moelis because of their excellent reputation with financial sponsors and also in restructuring. Lazard because they've one of the premier deal makers on the street. EVR obviously has a great reputation and culture but placement is diluted by large classes but they still place very well. GHL is on tier below the other EBs in both placement and deal experience but has a great culture from talking to friends.
If they're on LinkedIn as an associate that means they're in the past two analyst classes.
I don't really feel like getting into a pissing match with you, and I'm not sure what your sources are. Not doing sponsors deals doesn't mean shit: Evercore/PJT/Lazard/Greenhill basically do no sponsors deal and all place very well. All the EBs do well in placement. Greenhill clearly has enough dealflow to satisfy a dozen analysts a class. I don't feel like going twelve rounds about placement, especially since I know what interviews my friends at the firm have gotten first hand while we were all going through the buyside process.
I would just encourage everyone to do their research when deciding whether or not to recruit at/join any firm.
I don't know how you can say not doing financial sponsors deals doesn't mean anything. Being at a bank that does a lot of financial sponsors deals is a distinct advantage. Analysts in Financial Sponsors groups get more intel on the process from PE firms months before recruiting starts and are able to reference deals that they've worked on with the PE funds that they are interviewing at. PE clients will also call up MDs they have good relationships with and ask for recommendations for analysts. It is a big advantage.
Take a look at how most Financial Sponsors Groups or banks that do sponsor deals place. Take BAML Sponsors for example. BAML is not necessarily regarded as a top bank but their analysts in Financial Sponsors place lights out (Apollo, TH Lee, Oaktree, GS PIA) in addition to the upper tier MM funds you mentioned.
Like I said it depends on the bank. Moelis is the only EB that does a lot of work with sponsors which is why their placement is so good among the EBs. EVR and LAZ have very good deal flow so they still place well for the top half of analysts. GHL has neither the deal flow of the other EBs nor the PE clients so their placement while still decent is not as great as you are claiming. That is all I am saying on the matter. I think I've explained myself enough.
I'm saying not working with sponsors, in it of itself doesn't mean anything in the EBs given the fact that only Moelis does sponsors deals. Don't know why you felt the need to bring in BB groups in, that's a another animal.
The EBs do well in recruiting because headhunters have discovered a strong correlation in the success of EB analysts in converting interviews (so they get paid). The fact that you think "dealflow" is what makes Lazard or Evercore great places to place out of seems somewhat naive to me. Many, if not the plurality of analysts going into Jan/Feb of recruiting don't have an announced M&A deal on their resumes and the ones that do are just a mix of lucky and good. Even if it were true, the fact that you say GHL doesn't have the dealflow to satisfy like a dozen analysts per class seem highly suspect to me. Still don't know what your sources are, I feel like you're a senior in college or something who thinks they know something about the industry.
Either way, I think people should do their own research and talk to people at the firm rather than listen to what a couple of anonymous douchebags say on the internet.
Was in a BB M&A group before going to an RX shop. Dealflow does matter because it is a big part of what attracts talent. It's one of the reasons why EBs are very popular today: because they are able to take market share away from the bigger guys and provide the experience of executing deals to smaller teams. If an investment bank is seeing a major dip in deal flow do you think top analysts are going to want to go there? Top analysts want good experience, placement, and comp while not having a printer thrown at their head.
Of course a counter argument is what about BX M&A which didn't have great deal flow but still placed well. BX (when it was BX and not PJT) is different because no one took anything else over BX and the quality of its analysts are superb but keep in mind even they lost out in interviews to candidates at other EBs / BBs because of the quality experience they could speak to or the lack thereof. So BX is not comparable because people will and have taken other BBs / EBs over GHL, at least that was the case when I was in college. What I've seen is people from my college days was GHL was always picked secondary to the top BBs, other EBs, or top groups at lower-tiered shops. I don't expect things to have changed much.
At the end of the day, GHL is a great spot to be in as an analyst but to say it's as good as the other top groups on the street, which is what you are implying, is a little bit misleading.
By the way the expression is "in and of itself" just in case that wasn't a mistake. And there is no need to call anyone any names. I'm sure this debate we are having is useful for the WSO community. With that said I'm done posting on this thread.
Haha, well the expression is my bad. I apologize for the ad hominem, I was expressing my view that your stance seems out of touch a bit. I think we got into a pissing contest without either of us wanting to.
Frankly, I currently work in a well-regarded BB coverage group and have seen interns with offers from my group and bank leave for Greenhill FT the last two years. I personally know two Greenhill analysts and lived with one. I think I have a slightly better view than the one you gained while in college half a decade ago going through banking recruiting. I am absolutely saying that Greenhill is going to set someone up as well as any other EB, though I still think some of the 3-4 top BB groups are still going to be better than the EBs. Revenue at Greenhill is relatively flat and if they've kept their analyst class relatively flat, then there is no real dip in dealflow per analyst.
I'm pretty convinced that unless Linkedin, my friends, and headhunters are lying to me, they place well. Again, do your own research.
Lol ttim111 clearly didn't read anything in this thread.
Greenhill is not in 'decline' in the sense that it is no longer executing high profile m&a transactions anymore etc.; it still wins mandates and has the similar brand recognition in corporate board rooms akin to its EB peers. As far as 'growth' is concerned, they're probably the only EB left that is pure-advisory focused. Every single other EB has since branched off into some form of capital markets/research/investing role.
At the end of the day there are a multitude of reasons why EB vs. BB. Getting into an argument about Financial Sponsors groups and their relative 'placement' and 'learning experience' vs. an experience one might get at an EB is like beating a dead horse. Just to add to it for now, I assure you, I've worked at both and the ONLY thing EB Analysts miss out on in terms of LevFin transactions Sponsors groups at BB's execute is in the preparation of marketing materials (bank book, etc.). Everything else, in terms of thinking about what the optimal capital structure is for an LBO etc., can be learned at an EB just as efficiently. Don't forget that an RX transaction involves all of the debt waterfall modeling you would do in an LBO transaction and in my opinion, is much more complicated.
Back to Greenhill - I know some analysts there. From the looks of it they are arguably the ONE EB left that hires very selectively in terms of Senior Bankers. Lots of the EB's who are concentrated on growth and kneel to their equity market performance are going down the route of converting to a quasi-BB in the sense that they hire for growth; as an analyst, this will dilute your experience in the sense that the benefits of being at a boutique (access to Senior Bankers, increased responsibility) becomes harder to realize the higher these headcounts get in the firm's search for 'growth'. Greenhill seems adamant about retaining what made a boutique investment banking experience great across all positions, and is still doing what they've been always been doing. They'll execute a handful of high-profile m&a/RX transactions a year, and do small tack-on acquisitions for blue chip names they've done deals for in the past. That hasn't stopped, and you'd be crazy to think placement for analysts has dropped off at all.
Any insights on Greenhill? (Originally Posted: 09/23/2008)
Hello guys,
Just wondering if you guys have some insight on Greenhill, from many posts that I've looked at it seems like they are one of the top if not the top boutiques out there. I've heard the compensation is good, lifestyle is great, and exit opportunities are on par with top bank holding companies.
I would like to know what their interview process is like, do they ask a lot of technical questions or more behavioral/fit? Also, many people mentioned they are super duper selective, does this mean in the interview selection process, the interview, or both? I was fortunate enough to land an interview spot so does this mean things are looking good or is it more like they interview all their options and then choose the best.
Any insight would be very helpful!
Thanks!
top top boutique, better lifestyle than BBs. interview tends to be a bit more technical. they are selective both in giving out interviews and jobs.
my friend had a really technical interview but she's also a finance and accounting major from wharton and did ibanking this summer
In my final rounds there were six interviews, half with MDs and the other half with less senior people. The MDs focused on fit and everybody else grilled me on technical stuff. It's pretty similar to other boutiques and BBs as far as the topics in interviews covered, but I would say that the interviews were the most technical I've had thus far (Lazard being right up there).
They covered DCF in great detail, including questions about how to actually build the model in Excel, accretion/dilution questions, a case study of how to do a sum-of-the-parts valuation for a fictional company the guy made up on the spot, and a question about how changing your depreciation method would affect the financial statements. Pretty intense stuff.
I'm a finance major though, so maybe that could play a role in the questions asked. Generally though they are looking for people who know this stuff because they don't have an intense training program.
I successfully interviewed with them recently. I have a non-financial background but was still given quite technical questions. I had recently finished an internship so I guess they thought that was enough background. Questions mainly focused on DCF analysts as well as 'business sense'. 6 interviews over the course of the day.
great comments guys!
shoot... if they are super technical, I should probably not just read the vault guide, but actually do a DCF or would the guide knowledge be enough!!! Any ideas on how to prepare for the technical interview. Were the questions accounting focused or banking focused? Sounds like they were a good mix of both, but heavily on the DCF stuff.
You don't need to go out and build a DCF model, but just know how it all fits together. They specifically asked me about calculating free cash flow, using the mid-year convention to discount cash flows (but not the terminal value!), various ways to calculate a terminal value, how to calculate WACC, CAPM, and how to lever/unlever beta.
With WACC they had me draw a graph showing how the cost of capital changes as you go from 100% debt to 100% equity, and then explain why it looked the way it did.
I think the Vault Guide covers most of that anyway.
may i inquire as to whether these were (or in the case of monkeyinasuit, will be) in regards to an SA or FT position. Does Greenhill have an SA program anyone would care to comment on?
http://www.greenhill.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=96&I…
SA program interviews in Feb/Mar
All my stuff was for a FT position. They do have a limited number of summer analyst spots, and typically interview at the top schools.
bearing: with regards to that site, do you think it is even worth it to apply through that site if Greenhill doesn't do on-campus recruiting at your school. I got to a top 25 school, but not a target.
There is always a glimmer of hope when applying online as through my own experience I have secured interviews through resume drops. I wouldn't put too much stock into it thou.
What do you guys think of working for Greenhill in Frankfurt (Analyst) in terms of prestige and exit-ops. I just had an interview with them. Quite interesting was, that they told me, that in comparison to e.g. the London/New York office, you will have way more responsiblity (if you are doing a good job and proof to be smart & hard working) and development option. Reason behind this is, that analysts in e.g. London are just used as a resource who are thrown around different teams to do some standard stuff. Additionally, due to the german education system, graduates are older and thus more mature so that they feel more comfortable to give them higher responsibility if they proof to be good. Do you think this will also translate to your cv, that your exit-opps will be better /equal to working in the London office or will anyway the location of working in London outweight?
dude, banking isn't yoga. you pick your chunk of meat and run with it. You don't sit there and fret about responsibility.
There is also the small matter of (incredibly crappy) German banking pay and upward mobility. It's not as bad as Milan, but pretty bad.
It's the Continent. They don't do things the same way.
Asking for a comparison between Frankfurt and London offices is like asking for a comparison between New York and Chicago offices. A complete nonstarter.
what is meant by superior lifestyle? is it at the analyst level or higher up? How good of a lifestyle can a M&A firm that advices Fortune 500 clients actually have?
Greenhill - Info/opinions? (Originally Posted: 02/14/2008)
I did some searching on Greenhill, but the info/opinions I found seemed to be a bit outdated. What's the general consensus on the experience/people/exit opportunities of Greenhill. I'm attracted to the smaller size and the generalist nature of the analyst program, but was curious about how the firm is viewed. Particularly interested to see if anyone knows of people moving on to hedge funds from this firm?
Thanks in advance
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