Which do you believe is a harder goal, becoming an Investment Banker or a Doctor? I know most are going to say doctor due to the longer educational requirements, but the amount of IB entry positions is very limited, and it's a lot harder to break in if you miss your chance in undergrad. Doctor hopefuls can arguably apply to the many med schools or even go to one of those Caribbean programs if all else fails.
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Who gives a fuck?
I'll second manbearpig
But I'll bite and say MD regardless, but even more so if we want to limit it to a surgeon (v. family prac, or OB/GYN, which is allegedly the easiest thing to break into out of med school according to my friends).
The education, content of said education, and technical expertise required (which must be continually updated, perfected, etc) makes it not even close.
From a knowledge/difficulty standpoint, it is often said investment banking isn't rocket science, but it is just as apropos to say it isn't brain (or any other type of) surgery.
And those Caribbean schools are the equivalent of phoenix online but cost 200k.
By the title it seemed like you wanted to know whether it would be more difficult being an IB analyst or a managing director
It's a lot easier to break into IB at the MBA level than at the undergrad. I'll say both are equal.
I'd say IB is harder to break into and requires more luck. There are less spots relative to med school. IB only recruits at target schools where are you can get into med school from anywhere. Pretty much if you have good grades and a decent mcat you can get in but not necessarily true with IB. However, I'm only speaking to the merits of breaking in not to the difficulty of the course work, in that regard medicine is more difficult.
How many people read MD in the title as Managing Director?
managing director
+2
MD should always mean managing director on this board. If you mean a Medical Doctor... just say Doctor
Who cares what's harder. If you really want it, you're more likely to put out real effort and succeed.
depends on what your comparison is:
IB associate/VP vs. resident at a hospital:
harder to be an MD by far. even if banks have less entry-level positions, there are MANY more people gunning for med school. most of my friends from NYU CAS, etc. don't even know what investment banking is even though they are interested in finance. if you go to an ivy, then yes a lot of kids try for banking but if you go to a regular school no one has heard of what investment banking is.
need ~3.7 average to get into a decent med school with significantly harder science classes + work your ass for 4 years + interview for residency spots + work your ass off 4 years as a resident + pass step 1, 2, 3 exams to be a doctor vs. get a 3.4+ in college, network, get an interview, memorize the vault guide, and work residency hours for 4-6 years. By the time you're a VP the doctor still hasn't finished training
IB partner/MD vs. partner at your own practice:
moving up as a doctor is probably easier, less stressful, luck-prone and less political than moving up as a banker. I know tons of people who own their own med practices and it seems like the hardest part is getting through the beginning years. Afterwards it's still stressful, and most work six days a week, but it's not like being and MD with traveling, blackberrys, or anything like that.
long story short: medical path is harder at first, then easier after 10+ years
I have a friend who is a complete idiot and did extremely poorly all through college and just graduated from med school. I ran into him a few weeks ago and he still seems just as dumb as he was when I saw him 5 years ago, but somehow he is going to be able to practice medicine? Another friend went to a Caribbean med school after doing even more poorly in undergrad. I'm sure he will eventually be practicing medicine somewhere.
I guess my point is that the coursework to become a doctor can't be all that difficult if these two idiots can do so poorly in undergrad, yet still finish med school.
There are plenty of dumb kids in banking, PE, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, HBS, whatever. At the junior level, it's tougher to be a doctor than a PE/IB guy
The question wasn't which is more difficult to be, it was which is more difficult to become. From what I've seen, getting the initials M.D. behind your name can't be that difficult. Again, I'm basing this off of a few complete idiots that I know who have no connections yet somehow still got into a shitty med school and can now practice. I'm sure everyone on here can agree that being a doctor is more challenging than being an analyst, but that doesn't mean the class requirements to get there are necessarily more difficult.
I've landed both, completed MD in 2008, starting as a FT associate this summer. Getting a seat in medical school and matching into a competitive residency was ridiculously more difficult than an IB spot.
what made you get out of medicine and into ib?
I'd argue it's harder to be a doctor all day.
Maybe it's harder to become a doctor if you're from a target , but harder to do banking if you're from a non target. But it's harder in the getting your name out there sense, not the taking tough classes and having a shitload of chemical reactions to memorize sense
congrats on your decision. will you be joining a BB? and what tier MBA did you graduate from?
Such a WSO question to ask, despite the fact that we're talkin' to a guy who has undergone one of the most unique career transitions I've ever heard of.
Gage, I'd be interested to know--were there any habits that you picked up in med school/as a doctor that helped you in B-school? And good Lord the amount of debt you must have at this point must be mindblowing, even if you didn't have to pay for undergrad.... I will say that I'm not surprised that as a doctor you had an easy time during recruiting, you're obviously someone that is intelligent and can stand the hours--plus, what bank iwouldn't[/i] want to have a doc around?
Also imagine how badass your signature line will look if you make it to the top in banking: Gage Whitney Pace, M.D. Managing Director Goldman Stanley Harriman (or whatever)
For my part, I will say that on average, at my school the pre-meds work 5x harder than the pre-bankers/consultants. There are exceptions but the pre-med curriculum seems to be much more difficult. I actually came to the school planning on pre-med but switched to economics almost immediately, just something I was more interested in. That said, 20% of the people that apply to med schools from my college don't get in anywhere, whereas everyone that wants to do banking winds up in finance isomewhere[/i] unless they're total fuck-ups.
Thanks for the interest - to answer a couple of questions that were asked:
Sleep is an option.
The ability to triage, getting the most important and difficult work done first, and being flexible enough to switch at a moment's notice to do something more pressing.
You gain a lot of confidence as a physician. So even though you understand that things can always get worse (someone throws you more work, doesn't like a presentation or whatever), I know that more than likely my finished product is going to get the job done.
Be nice to nurses. Which in business means to be cool to the people working with you, you get such a better product in a shorted amount of time by not being a dick.
lmao.
haha come on, legit questions. it helps give an idea about how MDs fare in the recruiting process.
did you go to a top tier med school or mba?
The need to compare Doctors and bankers on this forum is puzzling indeed. I could get consultants and bankers but for fuck sakes, doctors?
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