im scared shitless for applying to SA positions now...

At least for the target recruiting, the alums review your resumes. So, say out of a drop of 100 kids, they are asked to choose 20 or 30 for first round interviews. Maybe your friend doesn' tknow any alums that could help him out in the process. It is pretty effective when a 1st or 2nd year analyst can take your resume from the pile and state "I know this guy/girl from XYZ..>" and personally vouch for you.

I go to a non-target with a 3.5 GPA and have received 2 first rounds, through 2 BBs that come on campus to recruit.

His CV must look like shit.

this is classic no connections/no networking.  his CV probably looks fine; its everything else thats wrong.  saw it happen to kids at my school (target) and this seems to be the common thread.

yeah, i've actually been somewhat disenchanted by how completely un-meritocratic the selection process is.

If he got started late, didn't network and get to know the banks, and didn't know any of the alumni reviewing his resume, that's really not surprising at all. Being uncertain about whether or not to do banking and getting started late will hurt you more than not having a good GPA/other qualifications. Banks can detect VERY quickly whether you're serious about the job or not, and those who aren't will be weeded out.

Meritocracy, schmeritocracy.  Believe it or not, meritocracy isn't the biggest deal when you're recruiting for something like investment banking that a lot of people could do (a lot more people are qualified than are accepted).  This is especially true for the kind of numbers-driven higher sat, higher gpa, better school 'meritocracy' you're referring to interested, since the intelligence/skill requirement for ib is not that high.  Now, if 4.0 math/econ was applying for something that required serious academic firepower, or better yet something that made direct use of his skills like an econ phd program, there'd be grounds to complain.

this sort of thing reminds me of the Education as a signal perspective. For Investment bankers.... there's a certain type of individual they are looking for and its not necessarily a math major or a physics major with a 4.0. This sort of story does, however, definitely make you start to realize that education is more a way of saying "this is the type of person i am" than a way of increasing your job productivity. Like a poster pointed out... a ton of people are qualified to do investment banking.... its more about who does or does not get it. In this case, what actually might be happening is analysts and others at the banks are reviewing resumes.... they come across your buddy whos a econ/math major with a 4.0 but not finance background really. They are thinking a few possibilities

1) Hes a freak

2) Hes riding on the whole "i wanna be an ibanker and make a lot of money"

3) Hes gonna be an arrogant self-promoter who will not be someone I want to work with

If these are the first things that come to mind.... and the other individuals who applied they knew, have more of a background, have networked...... then its very likely that the top BB would be reviewing elsewhere. 

If the kid is that great or does really well they can offer him a nice transfer package from whatever bank he does go to....

The real money makers are the banks themselves.... not always the individuals.... 

I would not be concerned that this case would be what you will experience... just remember that your resume isnt just a set of stats its also the first way in which they get to know who you are... so think hard about how you want to present yourself

Does his personality suck? Is he like a cool guy to be around? Past GPA/WE and school, if you are a totaly weirdo, I doubt you would be very sucessful during recruiting.

As you juniors who are going through the SA process now will inevitably discover, IBD recruiting is a complete and utter crap shoot. There are no guaranteed spots for any applicant. I know kids who had lower GPA's and inferior work experience than a lot of their competition at school who received jobs over these people at BB's and top boutiques. You can't discount networking, interviewing skills, and the general fit/connection thatf a particular applicant has with a firm/interviewers. Recruiting, as opposed to the college application process, is not a meritocracy by any means. This happens when there are 25x more qualified applicants than spots available and they only have a minute to screen your resume. I would imagine the odds were significantly worse during FT recruiting this fall. When 100+ kids attend to an information session and/or drop a resume at a BB firm from a top target, with only 20 being ultimately selected for a first-round interview, you are not going to get interviews at every BB. Unless, of course, you have a 3.8+ and previous experience at a reputable IB. I have a couple of good friends who just went through FT recruiting at Berkeley and applied to every bank (which includes all the BB, UBS, Bear, BofA etc.) that recruits there. They went to the information sessions and met alums. Both had solid GPA's and good WE. One only received interviews at ML, UBS, and BofA. The other only received interviews at GS and CS. You should not get discouraged if you do not get an interview, considering that everyone and their mother wants to go into banking.

The point here is that you should not expect anything to be handed to you in banking. You need to NETWORK, NETWORK, NETWORK. As some of the above posters who are involved in recruiting said, you need to have your name remembered by those reviewing the resumes. You can have the perfect stats, but if someone doubts your committment to the field, you're not moving on.

agree with most of the above.  networking is more important than your CV.  period.

i went to HYPW and for summer interviews, my bank will probably have 30-50 IBD interview slots, but over 400 resumes.  I'm not giving more than 10 seconds to any resume in there if i don't know of the person.  i make myself available to undgrads, so i've probably chatted with a good number, but for the rest must have something interesting on theirs.  personally, i'd rather give an interview to a kid with a 3.5 and a fun internship than a 4.0 who seems to only study.

here's the best way to think about this - people on school teams want to hire the most people from their school.  for ibd, intelligence is a threshold characteristic, in that we only need to feel confident that you are smart enough (gpa, extracurriculars, or past internships).  the (perceived) ability to succeed in interviews is a key part of how the slots are assigned after the smarts threshold has been hit.  things we look for here are generally airline test stuff - do i want to hang out with you for 6 hours in an airport.

Also keep in mind that many of the big banks have taken big losses this year, and hiring has likely slowed for FT as well as SA positions.

I'm in a similar position to your friend. Not a 4.0 math major, but even with a very competitive resume at a target, I've been rejected outright (not even a first round interview) from over half the firms to which I applied.

We just have to remember that there is an element of randomness, assesment on intangible criteria, and cyclicality to this whole process and not lose heart.

I've done interviews at a few BBs from a non-target, a few of my contacts that are pretty senior at these banks have mentioned that SA hiring has been cut back.

will a cutback in hiring in the U.S. affect the hirings worldwide for these BB's? for example, the hiring of FT and SA in Hong Kong?

I was told that SA hiring would be similar to last year. But this is for regional banks...not NY or international.

and i have a few first rounds too, not major BB banks. i think your friend probably had something wrong with him.

okay this is a really depressing thread.

You have to network! Especially this year, networking is the one thing that's most important. I got onto doostang, found a bunch of alumni and mailed all of them. I got a few responses and had my resume passed on. Hopefully, I will get an interview with them, but atleast I managed to get my resume in their hands. Coming from a non target, I think it's pretty cool.

It is a tough year, an alum who is a SVP at a BB just said that HR told him that almost all of the SA spots were reserved for core target schools.....hopefully he can pull some strings haha

Jesus... people are gettign killed left and right here. I go to a target Ivy league school, and I'm batting 1 out of 3 firms for first round interviews. Not a good thing, considering I have a good resume (3.9 & previous experience) and went to info sessions. A lot of my firneds with 3.7-3.8s are battign 0/3... we are all very surprised as we thought we would be getting something... granted its still early, but hopefully things get better

it's not the fucking apocalypse.  i go to a semi-target/target.  i don't have a godly gpa (think <3.5) and i've gotten interviews at 50% of the places i've applied, all 3 of them being BB.  just go to recruiting events and show them you're human.   

"granted its still early"

Is it really?  I thought most of the recruiting for SAs was done.

"Is it really?  I thought most of the recruiting for SAs was done."

Some of the banks' application deadlines have passed, but there's still plenty of time for SA recruiting.  I didn't land my SA gig until the final week in March, although my SA offer was about as late as you'll probably find from a BB.

To all those applying for SA spots, don't get discouraged too early.  Keep on applying and networking.  Keep your head up, as many apportunities don't materialize until the 11th hr.

It's essentially a crapshoot with SA recruiting - if you are from a non-target.

If you're a standout non-target, they will happily give you an offer after your final round. But if you're not totally a standout, they can put you on hold until after they do core target recruiting. This happened to me at a BB last week - kinda sucks, but I doubt I'd want to work at this BB given their ridiculous writedowns and layoffs.

apologies NYstateofmind..... I wasn't trying to be ignorant, I was just annoyed that I got put on hold haha. I would take the opportunity in a second for sure.

i don't understand this thread.  assuming that you all are telling the truth about where you went to school, how are you stumped about the lack of hiring in SA classes?  if you've picked up a WSJ within the past 2 months, you'll know that most investment banks are bleeding billions of dollars.  we're also on the brink of a recession (if it hasn't started already)

why wouldn't banks scale back their hiring if they are expecting less business in the coming year(s)?  it's not your qualifications - it's the market.  come on guys.

I just hope the financial mess improves around this time next year, or I'm in for some big disappointments.

I come from a non-target and I have two first round phone interviews next week (both are BB).  I would imagine it is still somewhat early in the process for other banks too.

i couldnt sense the sarcasm...had a bad morning. my bad

This sounds familiar. Is he from Cornell? Just curious.