Is I-banking enough money...?
I am in quite a situation. First some background. After I finish up my time in the Army, I'm going to either get a masters in physics or an MBA (hopefully from a good school). I'm paying off some credit card debt but I'm making good enough money to afford a 3 BR apartment, a new 2007 sports car and buy most of the stuff that I want. I've been dating a girl for about a year now and we're getting to the point where we talk about marriage and stuff.
Now the problem. My girlfriend says that unless I propose with a 2-carat, high quality diamond ring, she won't marry me. She says that she's been raised too wealthy and educated too well not to deserve a 2-carat ring, at the very least. Not knowing what a 2 carat diamond looks like, I checked online and at some jewelry stores and a 2 carat diamond is not only fucking gigantic, but will set me back in the neighborhood of $20,000. Now remember, I am in the Army, I'm not from a rich family and while I make a decent living I can't swing 20 grand to buy ring.
Not wanting to lose a girl that I really love, I broke down my financial situation for her and explained that I can't buy her a 2 carat ring now but that as soon as I make more money in the private sector after I leave the Army, I would buy her ring as soon as possible. She didn't go for it. Her attitude towards me has changed noticeably, she's ruder, a lot quicker to tell me to fuck off and keeps on talking about breaking up with me. I can trace her change in behavior back to the minute that I told her on my couch that I wasn't rich. I have never even implied in any way that I was well-off or rich or anything of that sort. I dress in $30 Levi's jeans and $30 Abercrombie polos. My shoes cost about a hundred bucks and my watch costs about $400. I am not someone people would mistake for being wealthy.
Can you guys (and girls) in I-banking just go out and buy a $20,000 diamond ring when your girlfriend demands one? When I start working in finance, how long do you think it'll be before I can start buying the sparkly carbon that my girlfriend is fiending for?
Some more background. I'm stationed in Korea and my girlfriend is Korean. Korea's median income is around $20,000 USD so an Army salary goes a long ways here. My girlfriend's family used to be very wealthy but their family fortunes have declined to the point where they had to sell their house to pay off her older brother's debt. Oh and my girlfriend is unemployed and has no savings.
Someone tell me that more money is going to buy me happiness.
Call me an asshole but a chick who demands a 2 carat ring "OR ELSE" is probably not someone you want to get married to. Now to your question... an IBanking analyst, at least at current income level, could definitely afford a $20K ring. All-in income for first years (according to the rumor chart) is 110+ for most of the Top 10 Banks.
Are you talking after tax here ? The chart I saw has bonuses up at 100. That puts all in at $170. This is off topic though.
I agree with the asshole (above).
Honestly mate, if you want a woman that marries you for money, my guess is that there are alot of other women out there willing to do who probably treat you better and will settle for a 1-carat (they might look better too). And from your description of your girlfriend's family's failing fortunes, you probably have more leverage in the negotiation process (think with your head....the one sitting on your neck).
On a more serious and humane note, if you want a chick who marries you for a diamond, you've got to consider if the both of you have the same values in life. If yes, then please go ahead and marry her. But you obviously have some doubts...
As for whether you can afford a US$20K ring after working in IB, answer is yes (unless you're eyeing that sportscar too). However, if that's your motivation for working in IB, you'll be a very unhappy camper in the office and to be perfectly honest, if I were your colleague, I wouldn't want someone like you on my team (harsh, but I think guys in IB will probably agree with me).
Last but not least, go rent a DVD called Blood Diamond (yup, that movie with Leonardo Dicaprio) and watch it with the misses. The DVD rental fee may save you US$20K...
bro, if she can't stick it with you now, while your lifestyle is stable and comfortable. maybe you should re-consider carefully. I'm quite sure life in finance is about a million times more uncertain than army, just imagine recession hits and banks decide to downsize and cuts you.
think about it.
.........Your girlfriend sounds really shallow. Your chances of breaking into investment banking are probably very poor...it's not that easy.
Considering that you probably can't get into a top five MBA program, and maybe not even a top ten would put you out of the range for a career as an associate in an investment bank. I don't know your credentials, but it takes at least two years to six years of job experience to land into a top MBA program and a 700+GMAT, not to mention many other credentials. The average entrant in a good program has five years of work experience in the finance industry.
You don't seem to realize that this comes with 80-110 hour work weeks, the suffering that comes with it, and a rather minimal social/family/relationship life.
While military experience is looked on favorable, it's completely unrelated and useless for the job market and is really only a signal of your ability to take degradation and suffering.
Not to mention, your post indicates that you haven't done any, if much research on the financial job market and you're only posting here because Investment bankers get paid the most. You probably have minimal or nil understanding of finance and thus would not add any value to a top MBA program if they were to consider taking you in. Most top MBA entrants have not only job experience, but relevant majors in business.
Your best bet is to simply reconsider if this person is worth expending time with or simply don't buy that sports car you want.
Lose the bitch.
You need to ask how hot the bitch is first.
Guys, thanks for the advice. Sometimes when you're in a relationship you lose perspective/objectivity. I'm hoping to make it into a good MBA program. My credentials aren't too shabby, my undergrad education was excellent and I think that I would bring a good mix of skills and abilities to any firm that I join. All that aside, I have the feeling that my girlfriend's demands and expectations are going to grow faster than my earning ability. I would imagine that being in i-banking attracts a fair share of gold diggers, any one care to share some advice/experience?
Your profile says that you're a third year miliary student and trained in engineering. Your other major is not considered that valuable. The likihood for you to get into a top MBA program is not great at all at this point, you should be more focused on getting entry-level analyst work or more studying to get to the point where you are a viable top MBA candidate.
Investment banking analysts do not make so much money as to drastically improve their non-existent lifestyle. Taxes in the next bracket, lower bonuses compare to higher ranks, pillage any potential for anything beyond the ordinary.
at the associate level, things are much better, but only in terms of pay. But this requries the corresponding responsiblity, training,and skillset.
And elitiest recruiting from top MBA...
The only bankers that are experiencing financial freedom are those ranked Vice presidents or very senior associates.
There's frankly, not that much gold to dig below that level with education tuition riding on your shoulders. It's a rather long, miserable road that may or may not be even worth the effort.
I thought banks love ex-military. Shouldn't they be jumping all over this guy?
It's obvious that she's into you for your money. No offense, but she's probably not marriage material.
I graduated West Point in 2004. I put down third year because it's my third year as an officer in the Army. Yeah, as for my majors, I don't know if they're that applicable to banking but I was interested in learning about them. You guys here on this forum are pretty cool, appreciate all the help and support.
matie, this may be the girl of your dreams, but it sounds to me like if shes drawing the line in the sand over the price tag on the ring you get her, you probably need to reassess. Anyway, if you do get her that ring, make sure you also get a watertight prenup agreement :)
Military experience is generally looked upon very very favorably. If you can do well on the GMATs I'd imagine you'd have a pretty good shot at a good MBA program as well.
It is, but how on earth is this guy's course of study related???? The people he is competing for top MBA programs have years of experience, top GMATs, finance/accounting certifications, AND revelevant study. Most were former analysts as well.
You're seriously underestimating the cache of the armed forces. When I was working last summer, I met several ex-army, navy guys from top B-schools (Stanford, Wharton, Harvard and Kellogg respectively) who said that B-schools LOVE diversity and they LOVE armed services folk. They could fill their classes many times over with the "analyst experience" folks, but they don't.
Don't overestimate the certification, finance/accounting background BS. B-schools want diversity. I know that's hard to hear for the various banker-wannabes on this forum who think 2 years at Goldman will get them into HBS, but it's the truth. Officer in the US Army > Goldman Sachs for B-School purposes.
To the OP:
Dump the girlfriend, apply to B-school. You'll do fine.
Sternfox, you clearly don't know anything. Please shut the fuck up.
Why is everyone shitting on this guys creds ? You don't HAVE to come from a top 5 MBA program to get into banking.
That being said .. say you did get into banking. Your girl is asking for a $20,000 ring when you don't have any dough at all. What are her demands going to be when you're making a ton ? The situation seems ridiculous ..
joke or you're an idiot
Hey Ace Shot seriously lose the freaken girl; wat kind of girl who truely loves you would ask you to get something she knows u can't afford; Seriously ditch the asian; im sure u can find a much cuter girl bak here in America who is more understanding :)
I thought this was a joke until you mentioned you were stationed in Asia...I can actually see this scenario happening over there lol. Anyway...
If you're from West Point, you'll likely get into a top program. That really shouldn't be an issue. Once you start attending an MBA program, your professional and social options will open up quite a bit.
yeah, def don't get her pregnant
try to win the lottery?
or just throw $556 on the roulette wheel
in all honesty, a girl who won't marry you because of a freaking ring is insane
seriously man, dump her..that sounds like an awfull girlfriend or for gods sake wife to have..i agree with GoldwinX that you can come back to US and find soo much more a better person and plus think about it..even if u get lucky and get into ibanking you most likely will have to work here..so now you'll have to start thinking about brining your girlfriend here and then after you get married she'll bring her entire family to the US, and they all are gonna live in ur house..have u gve this a thought, that she might wants to get married simply to get US citizenship?
Dude, it's your relationship with this chick, not your job, which is causing you all of this trouble. Even if you land an ibanking job she will just demand more things and cancel out any additional income.
Also, smu2008 could be right, I come from an asian family and this type of "sponsoring family members to come to the US" thing does happen a lot. Be careful...
Wow, you must be really desperate. A high value man doesn't accept this type of behavior, because he knows he can replace her with something better instantly.
You're like a dog, she says jump, and you say "how high."
Get a grip, I can't belive your even considering marrying her, it's obvious she doesn;t love you, and is only in for the money. She probably wants to get you to commit and then start helping out her family....then she will say OR ELSE I will divorse you and take half your stuff.
If she really loved you, she would say, "I understand your in a financial bind, no ring defines our love."
This would probably make it on Monetel or one of those day shows....Pathetic
Dude, no woman, girlfriend or not, has never even raised her voice at me without suffering consequences, and I don't even have any formal combat training lol.
If I were you I would take a 4 X 4 and shove it up her ass so far that she'll forget how to spell kim chi.
Good God, you're in the US Army and you're taking all this shit from some foreign bitch ??
here's an example of an officer that got into wharton:
NYU graduate, Military School, promotion from 2nd Lt. to Captain, (4 years serives), 4 finance oriented jobs afterwards.
The only example of an Army officer that got into Wharton without relevant prior finance experience:
West point, engineering major, 16 years work experience in the army joint chiefs of staff, Rank...Lt. Colonel..............
Um, I MET a Naval officer with no other work experience who went straight to HBS.
Yes, I am sure that's the only army officer in the history of Wharton to get in without prior finance experience.
You guys tout finance experience as if it's the be-all-end-all. Wake up. It isn't. In fact, it's very common to see people go to top B-schools from M/B/B after 2-3 years. Almost no-one goes from a top bank to a top B-school after an analyst stint.
I suggest you check out resume books floating around the web. The number of people with prior i-banking experience is actually somewhat small compared to overall class (note, I said banking, not finance experience).
Dude, are you fucking kidding me? HER FAMILY ISNT RICH ANYMORE, WHY THE FUCK WOULD SHE EXPECT YOU TO GET HER A 2 CT RING? And second of all, why the fuck marry a bitch who really just wants money. And she's that rude? Dude' I'd have dropped her on her ass the second she said 2 ct, no less.
Eh, I've sorted through 350 Wharton resumes. I think I know what it's like more than you.
There were very few former military officers and almost all had extensive job experience in finance before they even considered applying.
You've openly admitted to being a junior in Stern undergrad on this website (if not junior, then sophomore or some shit). Get the fuck out of here with this "I know more than you" bullshit.
Seriously.
He has a 3.8/4.0 in Engineering at a military academy. Are you idiots? Just because you run a 3.8 at your non-targets, (I go to one myself), a 3.8 Engineering from a NON-TARGET is impressive.
His other major, IR, probably means he has a great idea of basically what's going on in the world. Flip through Wharton's Resume Grad book 4 years ago and you will be astonished just how much they pulled military students with little or no significance.
If he pulls half a decent GMAT score, which is very likely, he will make it into a top 5 school.
You seem to forget something. Leadership is the best skill that EVERY MBA program is looking for. No matter where they go, it comes back down to seeking candidates who have leadership. Look through a resume book before speaking. We're lucky enough to live in our little bubble where we don't have military around us. Unfortunately, that also has given us unreal expectations of the caliber of many Academy students are like.
Ace Shot, first and foremost, I want to thank you for your service. West Point is no joke; I admire all that you have done. You're obviously a smart and intelligent guy. However, that being said.
Why are you being used? Koreans are cute, we get that. But seriously, do you honestly think it will get better? She's not going to sign a prenup.
So ... if you decide to give up your soul, be a QUANT(salaries up to 750k, your engineering skills speak for themselves) (why the fuck would you be an investment banker boggles me), the Korean will divorce you after so set years. She'll play a whole, American came here, took advantage of me bullshit, and you'll lose half your assets.
I'm sorry, but please leave her. This is the same advice you would have given yourself as a First Year Cadet before blinded by a woman.
I just went through an older Wharton's resume book, doing searches for Army, Air Force, Naval.
I got about 8 resumes out of 75, which would have been higher if I took a look at all Coast Guard, Merchant Academy, etc.
What happened was the most experience I saw was a 2 Year at Arthur Anderson. Most were directly FROM the military, some had a one year stint at a small and boutique consulting firm.
A better question would be what proportion of military officers get in versus the proportion of non-military officers that get in.
I agree with Pathus. There may not be that many military officers in top MBA programs but that does not mean they are not highly sought after. The truth may very well be that very few military officers pursue an MBA and therefore you do not see them in many programs. Also, maybe I am just ignorant, but why is prior financial experience necessary for an MBA? Last time I checked not every MBA candidate is looking to pursue a job in the financial services industry.
I looked through the first 200 resumes, and there are 11 ex-military men of some sort.
All had relevant work experience. The officer (ranked Captain) with the least work experience did a two year stint at an accounting firm. Everyone else had around three or more prior related work experience. The age for ex-military men seem to higher than the other successful candidates.
I'll look at the other 155 resume's later.
This is about TOP 5 MBA, Wharton, Stanford, Harvard, etc. The standards are very high in terms of relevant experience.
not any run of mill joke MBA. Anybody could get into a crap MBA program.
Are these resumes you're getting from students applying to a bank? Or is it a general resume book you have access to?
Anyway, a 3.8 from west point is ridiculous. This is a school infamous for grade deflation and where a 2.9 is quite respectable.
If the rest of his application is solid, he'll get into a top 5 mba program no problem. No need for additional work experience.
Wharton MBA class 2003'
I didn't expect this level of interest in my little foreign adventure. I appreciate all the tips about getting into good MBA programs, but more so, I appreciate all the tough advice about my situation. When I started this post, I wanted to leave as much of my personal emotions out of it as possible. I may be in the Army, but contrary to popular belief, I'm not a heartless trained killer. In fact, I have a huge soft spot for girls and I can't really bring myself to emotionally hurt them.
I spoke to my gf about this and her story is that money doesn't matter to her but the ring is a symbol of committment to her and that again, she thinks she's a girl of sufficient caliber to deserve a 2-carat ring. I replied that I think she deserves a 10-carat ring and that a ring that a woman receives reflects the earning power of the guy, not the quality of the girl. No dice with that line of reasoning. I also realized that when I told her that I have no money, her attitude and demeanor towards me changed noticeably for the worse. It was this sudden shift in her attitude which literally came not a split second from when I told her that I have "no money" that made me decide against continuing to tell her that my investments weren't liquid. I invested in some real estate and the value of my real estate is about $750K but I'm still paying off the mortgage. The equity I have on the property is about $120K but I can't go and put myself in more debt for the sake of a fucking ring. The funny thing is that when we had the inevitable blow out fight, my girlfriend flipped out (Korean girls do this regularly) and started clowning my family as poor, trailer trash Americans. Now, this crossed the fucking Rubicon with me. My family is by no means rich but we make a respectable living, about $400K a year from our two small businesses. However, with my brother and sister going to private universities with no financial assistance, money gets a little tight sometimes. I took a moment to step outside my absurd situation where not only was I being clowned by an unemployed girl from a developing country but my family somehow got dragged into this. Yeah, I told myself "Brother,it's time to cut slingload on this fucking bitch."
And you guys are right. I think she was looking at me to be her ticket to American citizenship and in turn sponsor her brother and mom for citizenship. Oh and guess who would end up taking care of her aging mother? Thank you my fellow Americans for getting my back on this. I guess everybody loses perspective sometimes and we're all weak now and then.
HOOAH soldier. I am glad to see you have dumped the bitch and it is probably one of the best decisions you will ever make. I wish you the best of luck... and with a 3.8 from West Point and being an officer in the army, I think you have a leg up on many people.
nice dude, glad to see you came to your senses.
Well, most army personnel are in logistics anyway. The tooth to tail ratio is quite low compared to the US army thirty, fourty years ago. The vast majority of US troops will never see combat, just support the raids.
The bayonet strength in a US infantry division is probably one to four these days.
Will you be posted to Infantry, Armored Calvary or Armored division? West point would probably give you a good pick of premier divisions, right? Like the "Abram's" fourth Armored, or 2nd armored "hell on wheels", or the 26th infantry division.
PM me if you need to take a look at that resume book to figure out what to do after west point. I was under the impression that you have to give up four years of your life afterwards?
Two words: Hell Yes. Was with a Korean girl myself back in the day who was--to put it mildly--a psychopath. Love to see men triumph over evil bitches. Congrats!
Some more background. I'm stationed in Korea and my girlfriend is Korean. Korea's median income is around $20,000 USD so an Army salary goes a long ways here. My girlfriend's family used to be very wealthy but their family fortunes have declined to the point where they had to sell their house to pay off her older brother's debt. Oh and my girlfriend is unemployed and has no savings.
Dude, where to start.
Ok, here. Be F'n glad its not the Phillipines because not only would your sweet viper extract from you a 20k ring but she would then sell it and pay for the dental school exams of her "brother" who for some reason is always sleeping over her house and has her name tattood on his chest.
I do not know your lady, but I know thousands of ladies just like her and the Koreans in particular have the education and sophistication of the Japanese and the "black heart, thick face" of the Chinese.
Any chick here in Asia that puts her love into a material form is to be avoided. Find a lady who loves you for your heart and then spoil her when you have the cash.
Someone tell me that more money is going to buy me happiness.[/quote]
No. More realistic understanding of the world and your place in it will, hwoever, bring you lots of happiness and a lot of biddies who you can reverse-scam by holding out the never fufilled promise of a 30k ring.
Sorry to harp on it but in Korea in particular the "my family used to be wealthy" scam is like getting an e-mail from General Abacha's nephew's cousin's attorney who just needs a small advance fee.
As I said, Koreans are better educated than their continental peers and have slightly more middle class pretentions. Therefore women need to explain why on earth a person of a simple background needs to live extravegantly and therefore needs to drain you for every freakin penny you have. In other countries in Asua, especially SE, they do not come up ith that elaborate excuse for being grubby way below their supposed station.
Seen it before in friends and have done the reverse exploitation myself, I can say proudly.
Sternfox,
I really wish you would stop lying. You lie in all your posts about who you are and what you've come across. Frankly, it's really stupid having to create a facade on the internet. I can remember when you first came to this forum weeks back and was an undergraduate with a "CFA". When this was mentioned that it was impossible, suddenly in two days, you became a graduate of Stern holding a CFA Level 1 in which you initially knew nothing about.
Most of HBS students do not have finance/accounting certifications at all. Why? Because most are not from a finance group. Just because you imagine Investment Banking as means to an end, it does not mean that HBS will stuff their class with IBs. In fact, only about 20-25 percent of the class is from Investment Banking. I wouldn't imagine any senior level management to need a CAIA - nor should they.
You lie again and again. I try to avoid flaming in these forums, they often get out of hand - yet, if you're going to constantly argue your point, by spewing BS - then please stop.
You've frankly mistaken me for another poster. Ridiculous.
It is, in fact, you, that are lying by trying to discredit me on this forum.
There was a thread where a certain high school student was mentioned that claimed to have the CFA and CAIA. Note that it was in fact, I who pointed out that a high school senior could not have the CFA.
I'm in fact taking the level 3 in 6 days this saturday and have been studying everyday.
PM me for the Wharton Resume book I have. I've shifted through 200 resume's, you can clear the last 155. Many hold the CFA/CPA.
These resume's are all highly impressive, with a lot of work experience and achievements. The plain fact is even the servicemen who got into wharton had extensive work experience and credentials. A 3.8 GPA is commonplace and not even exceptional, just above average.
You are utterly useless!
You're looking at the Wharton Resumes incorrectly.
I looked at the same one. These are post-graduation resumes. Hence, internships, that stuff will have 2001 in them.
Its also a five year stint at the military. That's why in the resume book they all graduated in 1994-1996. That's why he's qualified as an MBA student.
If his GPA shows how smart he is .. 3.8 / Engineering He'll get a great GMAT He's served in the military. Has leadership credentials. As long as he writes a good set of essays, he is in.
Most of the West Point class is not in logistics. 2nd Lts are expected to serve.
The fighting strength of US infantry division is a fraction of its actual size. Could land up rear area positions as well, mobile artillery,etc.
Eh, internships aren't mentioned on most the job titles. There are a few with summer associate internships but real work experience is posted before it. Look through them again.
This guy can't really write a related essay if all he did was do platoon management with nada in the real world?
They dont have to be. It's inferred that its during school.
Look, I'm done. You obviously don't realize how much business schools and Wall St reveres military. He will get in. Graduating from West Point walks on top of any school.
As someone pointed on, you still don't seem to understand what a 3.8GPA engineering dictates. It's not bumbling Finance!
You are basing your observation on the first resume' in the book. Go look down at the other 355. They have YEARS on the job.
There is far more to getting into a good MBA program then grades, this isn't high school.
Five years military experience. You don't seem to fathom how long five years is. There is no signifacant leadership from banking.
You try leading a squadron where you're younger than most of those serving under you.
I'm under the impression that he's in his third year? A "Squad" is around five men. Military school graduates lead platoons, around 50 men with several experienced NCO's. Aceshot, correct me if I'm wrong.
Essentially, it's really the NCO's that lead the platoon, but the platoon commander still has more technical, tactical, and theoretical skills. It's more of a training experience for the platoon leader than actual leadership, which is supposed to arrive later as the NCO's skillset is rubbed off on the fresh graduate.
Ace Shot, you should tell your now ex-gf to visit this thread and see how we've persuaded you to dumb her.
Where did I do that?
I'm graduated, dumb-ass. I went through recruitment, everything.
Seriously, where do these moronic accusations come from?
Dude, do you really think I'm going to scour the board to find a post where you said it? You are a douche.
I think maybe people are confusing you with a couple of other posters.
Yeah, those two little boys are confusing me with "sternmonkey".
This thread is worthless without pictures.
"Just for the record, if a girl told me she expects nothing less than a $20,000 diamond ring on her finger I would stand her up, lead her to the door, bend her over, and kick her ass out and wish her a nice life..."
Thats just me thinking. This is the type of personality that woudl survive in Ibanking. You have to put your career over all else, especially someone like that who definitely would not be able to handle the fact that you would never see her. Is she going to move to NYC, Chicago, or LA with you? I hope shes good at adapting to new surroundings becuase she's going to have to have her own life in a new city since you will be working all the time.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but I just don't think you go into ibanking for a diamond ring. Usually, you do ibanking so after you're done with it, you can put a diamond ring on a victoria's secret model (JK). Seriously though, you might want to reconsider this idea.
Good News Ace Shot! even though I think Korea is considered a developed country now, but nonetheless, definitely less superior to the US. I actually just sent some plebes who are thinking about doing consulting/banking some sample resumes of ex WP grads. So, if you need them, just PM me.
Good luck and I hope this post wasn't bullshit, cuz you damn well made a good interesting post and got a lot of people mad at sternfox.
btw, you should still play craps or roulette.
this has been a funny thread to read over my lunch. I even joked about this bitch and 20,000 ring business with my collegues and laughed at it. Keep it cumming guys...
by the way, I associate Korean bitch, the type you mentioned, with local prostitues here. Apology my deragatory comments, but gold diggers deserve absoluTely zero respect from me. And yet this bitch wants US citizen. HAHA... try again.
Seanc,
We are not confused.
There is no sternmonkey on this forum. Only sternfox.
http://www.ibankingoasis.com/node/6342
This is not the first time that the validity of sternfox has come into play. Claims of working at a BB, etc. Not to mention absolute retarded posts.
Also, on CFA Analyst Forums - analystforums.com There is someone that goes by "sternwolf" who is the exact replica of sternfox, except that he's 21 (a age you "used" to be here), and still at Stern. Funny, these are the same credentials you used to be at this forum. You never got CFA Level 1/Level 2 - don't claim to be.
http://www.analystforum.com/phorums/read.php?11,529793,531003#msg-531003 http://www.analystforum.com/phorums/read.php?1,531717,531717#msg-531717 http://www.analystforum.com/phorums/read.php?11,538643,538643#msg-538643
He's also studying for the CFA Level 1. Stop your bullshit. You and sternwolf are the same person. The mathematical probabilty of two combination of words, one the same, the other associated with each other, at similiar forums - is a statistical anomaly. In AnalystForums you also mention that you post on IbankingOasis. There is no Sternwolf on these forums. The start account dates of sternfox and sternwolf are also very similiar.
I've known this since you've begun posting sternfox, every since you've posted your retarded posts/forums. I visit both forums and have a good attention to detail. Lately your posts have gotten better, but sometimes, you continue to lie again and again. Please, stop.
http://www.ibankingoasis.com/node/6686
Sternmonkey, junior at stern.
Yeah, I'm three people.
the answer is so obvious. ask her rich father to pay for the ring.
I'm still getting stuck on the concept that the quality of a woman should automatically translate into carats. Are we all walking around with price tags that read "1.25 carat round brilliant, colorless, minor surface inclusions" or "2 carat marquise, fancy pink, internally flawless"?
Second, why is she supposedly "worth" two carats? She's unemployed. It really doesn't matter how much her family supposedly once had, the value of a woman is the same as the value of a man: it lies in strength of will, integrity, compassion, and whatever other virtues you want to tack on there. If she's that valuable, that worthy a person, she needs to be out working for her own legacy and that of her family... not sitting around all day doing nothing and demanding bling from her American soldier boyfriend. (I'm certain she has a really good reason for being unemployed, however. All of these types do.)
If, as is the case with so many women, she feels that her value rests merely on face, grace, and charm -- well, just look at the market. Pretty girls are cheap and often easy. Particularly in Korea. Also, sad to say, dumb guys with more money than sense are pretty easy to find all over the world as well. Any pretty girl who wants to sell herself for a two-carat ring will usually find a taker. You, my friend, need to move forward with full understanding of what you want out of life.
I say this as the proud owner of a half(ish)-carat flawless white that was purchased by a man who was doing call-center tech support to pay the bills at the time, and I was still embarrassed that he spent money on something so nonessential when we were so poor and I was still in school. We were eating cereal and milk for dinner sometimes. I was expecting perhaps a plain band, something symbolic.
I could afford to upgrade now, of course -- hell, either one of us could shell out for two carats or more if I really wanted it -- but that's not the point of an engagement ring. No matter how many millions I rack up, that half-carat in its plain band is going to be on my finger... and I'll happily plop my hand down for comparison next to the hand of some gold-digging ho. She thinks she's worth two carats. And I happen to think my fiance is worth eating cereal and milk for dinner.
Quality post.
Oh come on. All the moralizing bullcrap... As if she is the expert! Maybe if Mis Ind is ever fired from her job in HR she can earn a living writing self-help books for desperate dumb men or something.
Also, Mis Ind's fiancee has been a waiter and a HF trader in previous posts. Now it turns out he also was a tech support guy. I don't think she deserves being taken very seriously.
This is true.
Hmmm, if your girl is insisting on a $20K ring, she'll likely insist on the $50K+ wedding as well.
...
Mis Ind, you win. =)
A few questions
1- Would you need the sports car if you didn't have the girl
2- Would you need/want a 3 BR if you didn't have the girl
3- The 'ring' issue is tough. My brother's a bigshot corporate lawyer type and his 'bitch' wants only a 25K Tiffany ring and diamond. His friend works at a prestigious diamond company and could hook him up with a TREMENDOUS ring for 20 K but she wants a 25K ring. The whole issue is a joke. When your girlfriend talks about how educations and her 'means' entitle her to a diamond ring you should call her bluff and move on. Believe me, the chick is going to keep annoying you and will definately ALIENATE your family. Your family will think you're a loser and that you're a joker. (They'll think that even more if you become a banker to satisfy more of her 'wants' (as opposed to needs)
Good luck bro.
PLEASE tell me you poured a beer on her and showed her the door. I don't even think I could muster any words to come out of my mouth if a woman (Who was pennyless mind you) demanded a 2 Ct ring. I would just point at the door and never say another word to her for as long as I lived.
Also Ace, there's a small hitch you forgot when thinking about going back to school, the fact that you'd be dead broke for two years! And the fact that even on a bankers salary, you'd have debt up to your eyeballs when you first finished. I doubt she'd stand by your side while you're living off loans and eating Raemen noodles sweating through your Derivatives class for two years. And it's even less likely that she'd be Ok with you spending a Six figure bonus check on your financial security (i.e. paying down debt, saving for your finacial future, etc...). Not to mention it's a year and a half to almost two years before you get a FAT check. Your stub year bonus is about $50k. If you started this fall, it would be March/April 2011 before you got one of those $250k bonus checks. Dump the braud!!!
And to the poster who said a 2Ct ring was nowhere near $20k, I think he missed the point. A 2Ct stone is $20k, not 2Ct total weight (i.e. a 1Ct stone and another Ct worth of diamonds on the sides of the center stone).
MS Ind, nothing wrong with upgrading. Hell, if my Fiance took a half Ct stone and ate cereal for dinner with me, you better believe when I could afford it I'd get her a stone that only fit in a wheel barrow. That's dedication and I would appreciate a woman standing by my side when times were not so perfect.
Girls in Korea all have plastic surgery anyway. She's just a shallow materalistic dumb unemployed golddigging bitch.
Sternfox--you are so far off base it's ridiculous.
My qualifications--military veteran, top-5 MBA, engineering major in undergrad. Military veterans represent approx. 10% of the class at most of the top 10-15 schools (5% at Wharton is the lowest). The vast majority had no work experience other than the military.
Adcoms look very favorably upon military experience. And investment banks look very favorably upon both the military experience and the engineering undergrad degree. The entire point of an MBA is usually to accomplish a career change, thus relevant work experience, or lack thereof, is of little importance to IBD, S&T, consulting, etc. (advanced positions and industries like PE being the obivous exceptions).
These have been my experiences, and to be honest, I'm so sick and tired of the misinformation on this forum that I'm not even going to bother trying to back it up with stats because people like sternfox are just going to keep running their mouths regardless. For those of you with an open mind please listen to what the few of us with actual experience on this board have to say.
And to the original poster--admission into a top 5 MBA program is definitely possible for any military veteran. Granted you will have to work for it, but do not let the negative sentiment on this board dissuade you. Oh, and lose the girl.....
Some of these posts brought tears to my eyes. No kidding.
On a serious note, keep that mushy shit to yourself.
to qualify this message, i'll preface by saying that i'm an ex-banker and now corp dev in f500. i've been at a bank and seen the associate hires and i've even done hiring myself for some of the 'organic' projects that my group has started for my company.
in short, anyone who says that a military man or woman can't get into a top 10 business school is 100% full of shit. at my bank (and no this wasn't some crappy third-tier bank like suntrust), there were at least 4 associate hires (in the associate class that corresponded to my analyst class) who had no pre-mba experience other than the military. to think that the military doesn't provide a good foundation or background for business is absolutely bogus.
in addition, as metioned earlier, i've also spearheaded the hiring process for many start-up type projects within my company, and i've hired several veterans to fill these rolls. however, before someone here makes some sarcastic comment like, "well, they must have been $45,000/year manual labor jobs," let me correct you by saying, "no, these were $100,000+ supervisory jobs."
in closing, i will reiterate that 90%+ of f500 companies look upon military experience highly favorably even if the skill developed in the military isn't 100% directly transferable.
i would challenge anyone here who disagrees to check out an outfit called bradley-morris, which is a recruiting firm that helps military members find corporate-type jobs after they leave the service. you'll see top name fortune 500 names and while this is not listed, i can guarantee you top-notch salaries as well...
by the way, ace, please feel free to pm me if you'd like me to introduce you to a bradley-morris recruiter who can help you explore post-service options in addition to/other than an mba. thanks for your service to this country.
The comments were directed towards entering Wharton, probably the best school in the country if you want to enter finance, not some run-of the mill MBA. I suspect the qualifications for entering HBS and other top 5 schools are similiar.
I based my opinion on the matter after shifting through several hundred resume's. The military-schooled folks tended to have substantial job experience after their service. Plain and simple.
The plain fact was, that ex-servicemen had done substantially more than take the GMAT's and apply. This is what I got out of a batch of 355 Wharton Resumes.
The military men who didn't do any finance/business oriented work and got into wharton were those who stayed with the military for years and got promoted internally, from 2nd. Lt. Up to Captain, and one even was a Lt. Colonel.
I personally didn't see a resume that had a fresh military school graduate with no job experience get in.
Or maybe these men were for some reason not included in the big batch I had.
and what are you doing with 355 Wharton Resumes? how on earth would something like that help you?
Drop this bitch like a bad habit, and drop her NOW. This is not a good sign. You'll thank us later. She sounds way too materialistic and idiotic to be long term wife material.
Dump this chick.
Anyone not willing to stick out life's circumstances with you isn't marriage material, period.
I speak from experience.
I spent some time in Korea and have known many USFK guys and also Korean girls who date them. And from my experience, no Korean girl who's been raised wealthy and educated well would ever date an American soldier. No offense to you at all, but that's just the Korean mindset. Also, I can't imagine a well-bred Korean girl ever talking about financial matters so frankly.
As a Korean myself, I fully agree with this. Korea isn't a very cosmopolitan country (I lived there until I was almost 10, and in that time saw less than a dozen caucasians, and just one person with dark skin); the result is that there is a lot of racist sentiment, at least among the people that haven't been overseas.
Ace: I applaud your decision, it was absolutely the right call.
As for Korea: It's considered a developed country now. (well South Korea is, obviously the North isn't) The Korean GDP per capita is projected to overtake New Zealand's some time this year.
Lastly I'm sure the non-Americans here would appreciate a little more respect from some of the posters.
"Me love you long time."
Hope that helps
Sternfox--I went to Wharton. I don't know how much clearer I can be on this. I know what the qualifications were of every single military veteran in Wharton's MBA program for the past 3 years. 90%+ had NO work experience other than the military.
And when you spoke about being promoted internally--that's the way it always works. Minimum commitment is 4 years, at which point you are pretty much automatically promoted to Captain. Then Academy grads owe 5 yrs, and certain career fields (like aviation) owe between 6 and 10 yrs of service.
That was very heartwarming. Especially in ibanking.
Write a book and call it, 'Vault Guide to Successful Relationships in Finance.'
Just make sure to genuinely fuck with her when you give her the boot. She appears to deserve it.
Maybe buy her a bigass CZ or glass ring, propose, and then just leave the fucking country.
Or just flat out say that "you realize that just because we get married, there's no way in hell you'll be bringing your family to my home", or somesuch.
PS: "Crossed the fucking Rubicon with me" is a choice phrase indeed. I'll have to find an excuse to use that one.
Now that's a GOOD ONE! Buy her a 4Ct Cubic Zirconia with cheap gold plating that will turn her gold digging finger green, give it to her the day before you leave (Without telling her you're leaving of course), have yourself on hell of a night in the sack, and head back to the states with a smile on your face. WanganRunner you are a genius. Next time I meet a girl who needs to learn some "Act Right" (That's a southern term people), I'm gonna PM you! lol
It's done and over with. There are times to wait and see and then there are times for decisive action. I've gotten rid of the gold digger and she no longer is any part of my life. I snapped to my senses, woke up one morning and realized that I was in a place that I did not want to be and did something about it. Called her bluff that same day, laid it out that not only did I not have the money for a 2 carat ring, I did not have the will to buy her one. Told her to go fuck herself and that I thought an unemployed girl from a developing country has no fucking place calling me and my family trailer trash because although we aren't the Vanderbilts or Rockefellers, we're still Americans at the end of the day and it'll be a cold day in hell before a Korean girl looks down upon me or my family. Thanks to all the posters on this thread for the kind words of advice. I really did need to snap out of it.
Some clarification. I already graduated West Point and now I'm a first lieutenant, with my promotion to captain due July 1. I can't talk about what I do because of operational security (OPSEC) concerns but I'm in charge of a small section that handles strategic level issues. I serve in the Army because now I truly realize how important it is and how dangerous and brutal a world we live in. I know a lot of people that post on this forum are well educated so you know how dangerous this world is and how high the stakes are. After I do my duty in the Army, I'm going to enter the corporate world and work hard to provide for my family. I appreciate the encouragement from the other posters with regards to applying to an MBA program with my military background that's devoid of any financial experience.
Miss Ind, that was a very nice post about how you and your fiance made it through some tough times. I think it's great that you appreciate the true, intrinsic value of love and dedication as opposed to being seduced by the empty rhetoric of materialism.
Everyone on this thread, thanks again for all the advice about career moves, life decisions and when to pull the trigger on a gold digging bitch.
"Oh come on. All the moralizing bullcrap... As if she is the expert! Maybe if Mis Ind is ever fired from her job in HR she can earn a living writing self-help books for desperate dumb men or something.
Also, Mis Ind's fiancee has been a waiter and a HF trader in previous posts. Now it turns out he also was a tech support guy. I don't think she deserves being taken very seriously."
A bit of clarification: those who aren't masters of the universe like us bankers frequently bounce from job to job. Since my fiance (one 'e' for masculine verbs, dear, with an accent aigu or acute accent) graduated from his lovely and expensive ivy-league university in 2000 with a near-worthless degree in computer science and a hatred of coding, he has worked to pay the bills (and his staggering student loans) in a wide variety of ways. This is pretty normal for those people (sad sacks, I know) who aren't cut out for banking.
For instance, he worked for a tech consulting firm briefly. He sold and supported computers for Dell. He waited tables in multiple cities. He worked phone tech support for an internet service provider. He only got into finance when he met me, and the firm he worked for was so strange and lax (bunch of ex-bond traders with more money than sense) that his actual functions were all over the place. As were their clients, products, and returns.
In the context of the larger world, it's actually very unusual to have a straight and narrow career path like we analysts do. Sure, we can do hedge funds or PE or stay in IB... but most of the rest of the world reinvents their careers frequently. Particularly in the decade following college.
Due to my unusual candidness, I think I've been questioned more frequently than any other real banker on this board. That also means that I've gone further to verify my statements than any other real banker on this board. Let's hope we can move past it soon and get back to providing high-quality posts that aid the original posters.
By the way, Ace Shot -- hearty congratulations. You'll find the right woman eventually, and she won't even cost you two carats.
i still have no clue why you think that would be helpful, lol
some kid with 5 posts attacked the truth of she said so she defends it
what's wrong with that?
also how does this person with 5 posts know so many things about Miss Ind? obviously an alter ego
get a life, kid
This is a second time my non-abusive post has been erased by some admin. Seriously, WTF?
this has to be the greatest string of posts i have read on this forum! Ace Shot, if you want to get into a top MBA program, I'm quite sure you will with the story you can tell. It's unique, and different from a majority of candidates. How many people can say they were stationed in Korea, and had the experiences you had? Not too many. I'm also glad that people with sense replied back to sternfox and said they were out of their f'ing mind. I hate when poeple get caught up in the BS about this school and that school won't accept you unless you have this GPA, a near 800 GMAT score, and an flawless background. Quite frankly, it's not true, so if you feel confident in your skills, and abilities, go for the top programs, and prepare like your life depends on it.
RUN! If you think the ring is expensive wait until you get the bill from your divorce attorney!
Get rid or her. A girl who makes those demands is clearly not worth it. Who knows what else she'll want if you guys get married
Military Experience is for MBA Applications not for breaking into IB. Plus, aren't Koreans supposed to go to the army? There is no Edge for a mandatory service and I'm sure the recruiters are aware of that given that S.Korea has become more well known over the last decade.
Anyone who thinks West Point is some how "lower ranked" thank an Ivy is a moron. You need amazing credentials and a friggin congressman to recommend you. West Point is an amazing school and 3.8 in engineering is way harder than anything in finance.
Guy is an officer and you are comparing him to some kid with a couple years as an excel jockey. This dude scores 690+ on his GMAT and his is in top 5-10 B school without a doubt.
Oh and most Wharton MBA's I know (2010-2011 class) are engineers, comp science, etc.
yar im sure u can find better korean girls.. and whats with her demands..
from the way I see it
1) she's not working, not rich anymore, no savings and yet she demands for a ring worth 20k??
2) she's gonna hamper your career progress, she's gonna whine and complain each time you work long hours (esp in IB since you really work long hours)
conclusion.. she's a depreciating asset and you are an appreciating asset.. so why bother keep her..
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