Job Hunt Excursion

Haven't you ever sold anything before? It doesn't matter if the person needs something (your marketing professor will disagree but he is wrong) it is all about convincing the person that they need/want something. When you're cold calling don't worry about whether they need someone. Make them want you.

Nebular:

1. Acquire all addresses of the firms. 2. Dress up in interview clothing. 3. Do some foot work and enter these places and ask about working there.

Do it.

What is the worst thing thats going to happen? a semi-mean no? pshhh

that takes a lot of balls...but it would certainly impress some people at the firms I believe...sometimes I don't even want to make calls to some contacts I have because I just think there is no chance it leads to anything...

I've been doing a lot of cold e-mailing...getting some responses but nothing positive...

There's a sales motto that some of the sales guys in my old office used to say:

"Some will, some won't, so what? On to the next."

With cold calling, emailing or showing up, you're playing the numbers game. You have no idea who just fired a entry level employee, or decided to expand their business and needed new employees but haven't posted a job yet. I think an in-person presence will be a good thing, if you come off as confident and not desperate.

My job board was non existent as well - we had recruiters for the Toys-R-Us management trainee program; not even for corporate finance, a fucking floor manager. I got great feedback by contacting the (I think 5 total) alumni we have on linked-in and just asking for informational interviews. After asking a lot of questions about their history and routinely following up for advice on how they made it in, two of them got me interviews with boutique IBs (never asked directly). I also bulk emailed about 150+ boutiques which netted me 2 interviews. I never actually showed up at a building but why not give it a shot - I doubt you would get anything but positive responses doing something like that.

I'm a big fan of the in person approach. I tend to be more locked in, in person rather than over the phone. Plus I'm taller than most people so maybe they'll be intimidated.

In person and reaching out directly are the way to go in this economy. I don't think some of my non-target counterparts out there quite grasp all of the BB positions that are being eliminated and how truly competitive it is out there to even get an interview let alone an offer.

Wow I'm quite impressed of the amount of support I'm getting here. I was sure I would be shot down in flames, not like that would have stopped me anyway though.

Nebular,

We're all united by a common interest of wanting to work in one of the most rigorous and demanding industries on the planet. I don't see why we wouldn't support you.

My advice, though I might not be fully qualified to do so, is to network locally as much as you can. I go to a non-target as well, and since I discovered LinkedIn, have been cold-emailing EVERYONE in my alumni network just to shoot the shit and learn more about what they do. I also try to shadow if they are local and it works pretty often, and it only serves to expand my network more, not to mention the massive injection of knowledge I get just from shadowing.

Also, there are professional meetings all the time in major cities, see if you can get over there and network as well learn. CFA, CMA, Traders, Value-Investors, there are so many niche groups out there that you can penetrate if you just express interest. From there it'll only help you.

One thing that I refused to believe 3 months ago was that people would want to help me when I networked. In the past three months I have made tremendous strides and I have to say this:

People WILL help you if they can, because they were in your shoes once too. Think of it as a crucible into the financial industry, where relationships and trust serve as 80% of your job placement factor.

Good luck!

i agree with Lex that you should network as much as possible and leverage everything; however just showing up in person w/o previous contact is still a really bad idea.

I would bet a lot of people have had success with networking.

Has anyone ever had success with showing up unannounced in person?

I've walked into a botique IB headed by an alum of my non-target school, and gotten a meeting with him. It all depends on what you say, how you look, and how lucky you are on that given day. The CEO just happened to be in the lobby when I walked in, and I unknowingly introduced myself to him!

With that said, I've also been escorted out of a building of another broker-dealer. But honestly, what do you have to lose? It's fun to do if you're a gregarious person and people will naturally want to help you out if you're friendly. Try it out.

I actually know someone who got her first job with the show-up technique. Not only did she just "show up", but she showed up, was thrown out, and then showed up again for a few straight days....basically they let her upstairs once it became clear she wasnt going to leave any other way. Then again this was the mid 1980s and she was an absolutely gorgeous woman, but still it worked.

As many said above, whats the worst that can happen? And BTW nobody is going to give your resume to human resources and have them "ruin your name"...thats just absurd. Worst case (which is 95% probability) is that you have a funny story to tell.

Please post your results.

They don't have to give it to HR to ruin your name. Remember, we are not talking big firm HR - we are talking boutique "HR" which is one person who 25% of the time is the receptionist as well. When they are actually hiring they might say "we could always look at that guy who just showed up" and laugh. I am speaking from experience.

Within the last three months we have had people just show up and we all consider this to be rude, untactful, unprofessional, and desperate. It is the easy way out to show up at the door and say "Hey, I called and emailed and you were not interested but now that you have to tell me to my face: Can I have an interview?" This really makes people feel weird, trust me. It reminds me of walking into Blockbuster when I was 15 and asking if they were hiring.

The small places that are willing to hire non-targets from undergrad want a good fit that demonstrates confidence and a willingness to go above and beyond. While it sounds like showing up unannounced is doing this it is really demonstrating that you are willing to put yourself out there, however showing up announced is a far as your creativity goes.

Like I said before:

Do excel models or write a case study on a deal they have done or would be interested in. Follow up, and be respectful, intelligent and persistent.

We are hiring right now actually, and I am shocked that nobody has reached out to me for info on the job. If they called/emailed me to chat, I wouldn't waste my time. If they sent me a model, i'd pick up the phone and talk to them to see if they are a good fit at which point I would get them an interview (at small places everyone has a ton of pull for candidates IME). If they showed up unannounced? No way. Never.

I am just saying that your time is better spent thinking of creative ways to get people to pay attention to you. Creative -- not just "showing up".

I do hope you the best and would enjoy hearing how this works out. If you move away from this board where 50%+ of the people are likely in the same shoes as you (ready to just show up) you will find it inappropriate. Even a google search will tell you this.

I usually do not care to get into a subject this much on here, but this is close to the heart as I am a non-target as well. However it seems you have already made up your mind.

and this:

"Worst case (which is 95% probability) is that you have a funny story to tell."

Keep in mind when you only have a few shops in town a 95% probability of making yourself into a joke is a really bad idea. One time i emailed the shit out of someone for a job cause i thought i had nothing to lose when they were not responding. Turns out they were out of town. Funny story? Yea. Seeing my friend get the job? Sucked.

And people faxed resumes before the internet, and mailed them before that.

Part of the deal is that you cannot contact these guys because these are mostly satellite offices. It's hard to find specific people that work there and it is not like I can call their HQ and be like "hey let me talk to ---- office" I call ---- office..."hey I'd like to apply to ----- position." Response: "apply on website". I'm going definitely get this response if I call, but if I show up in person there is atleast the possibility that something different will happen. That is all I want. The possibility.

And I don't understand why creativity is limited to the phone and email?

I worked in O&G ER at an upper MM bank at a satellite office. The group consisted of 4 guys in the top of a building in an office ~500 sqft. It was like a closet. If this is what you're looking for, walking in is going to feel even weirder. If you cant piece together their email (most formats are no too tricky), you will have a very hard time walking around a 1M swft bldg looking for that satellite. If it is a small office or stand alone bldg, then sure.

I continue to say that I am not trying to shit on your idea, but you continue to miss the point that if you call or send a boiler-plate email, no, that is not creative. That is why i told you to differentiate yourself by demonstrating REAL skills like through a write up or excel model.

If you do go through with the walk-in McDonalds interview style appointment, i would still bring a usb drive with a model, have it printed, and also have a write up.

I am guessing that the reason you keep avoiding my suggestion is that you can't write or use excel. In this case even if you show up and get an interview, you have much bigger problems.

Sk's idea on bringing a model, printed and digital, is a great idea. Definitely will bring some credibility to your position.

I do not view that as applicable. Remember, we are talking non-targets at satellite offices.

Sure, if you are doing a super-day at JPM and bring in your "model", you will look like an idiot. The main point of www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/model-in-interview is that you may have a mistake and they can probably model better than you and will tear you apart. It is just not the norm for traditional IB recruiting.

However it DOES work at satellite offices. They usually hire anywhere between 1-4 analysts, and they need them to hit the ground running. It is at these offices that you will likely have a model test (which is quite contradictory to your certified users opinions) - - even for entry level IB. They almost NEVER hire out of undergrad and recruit from under the corp wing i.e. will bring the one analyst they can have in their JPM satellite from JPM in NY. Sometimes they will bring in some people who were analysts at no-name (Financial analysts stuff) places, but who can demonstrate strong writing and excel skills.

I was specifically told at a boutique (1-2 analysts) that he was very impressed that I brought an excel model and work sample for an informational interview. He said they virtually never hire without previous IB experience because they need someone to hit the ground running with excel, and though everyone says they can do it, seeing some examples was nice and they have had several crash and burn experiences. They were not hiring but he kept my model and write up. He called 3 months later and asked me to come back in and I got an offer. I declined and took a higher offer somewhere else.

When applying for ER, I had to show that out of undergrad I could use excel beyond my peers. I spent a lunch with the senior going over my model and assumptions. I did not leave the xls. Got the offer here too. Said he was impressed by my preparation.

Let me reiterate that if you show up to your superday with a model you will look like an idiot. You will also look like an idiot if you show up and ask for a superday (OP?). However, if you are reaching out to small/satellite shops, I can guarantee that they almost exclusively hire 1-2 experienced analysts and if you want a chance from UG, you better show them you can hang.

I am truly appalled that users are saying going over a model and write up if you are from a non-target and live in the middle of nowhere is a bad idea, but just "showing up" is a good idea.

Whooaaaa Nubluar! Little sensitive? At first I was really on your side, you know, cause I liked the ambition and wanted to help. If you let little things like that get to you you'll probably run home crying like a baby-back bitch after the first month. That is if you do manage to get something.

Monkolony:

I see that your intentions are good, but your language is too boiler. You could blast that to 1,000 places and they'll assume you did. Try the networking tips you find here, like finding someone you have something in common with.

Also, the "do you have an open positions" will likely get a no or no response at all. Try to instead say you are interested in their line of business and would like to set an information interview to demonstrate an interest in their firm or something. That way even if they do not have any openings you can still meet them and see when/if they will any time in the future.

You obviously attacked me first. I was going to call you immature, but I think calling me Nubular, which I have been called by countless of prepubescents over the ten or so years of having this name, makes it redundant. I guess it was only of matter of time before you resulted to just insulting me, Gay8.

Help? You never gave me any suggestion that was relative to the point of this topic. The objective was cold approaches not "How can I be more creative at emailing/calling/networking", as your dyslexia may have shadowed it. I don't give a fuck about your suggestions. If I wanted help specified to your suggestions , I would have asked for it in a concise manner.

Ya I definitely will run like a baby, hence why I'm ballsing up and going to these places in person and giving them the opportunity to bash me in the face. I must be some serious chicken shit.

Ha Nubular I actually just misspelled it -- and i did not even realize it!

Totally fucking great.

Gay8 made me laugh too, right after my comp crashed and I intentionally turned off autosave - - so thank you.

deleted.

Amen.

Alright, well here's a small update, not much material here, but I think of this as more as a work in progress. I had some time to visit two companies today, so I went for it.

First trial run:

Hedge fund: Pretty big office that opened in my area. I drive in, the parking lot is pretty big. I kindly ask the security -whose scoping parking passes on parked cars- where I could park. He direct me to four columns down, but I still see decals on cars that far, so I park at the opposite end of the building just to be safe. I balls up, and enter the building. I get to the reception desk (for the building, not the firm) and right away pop the question "Hi, I'm a recent grad and I noticed that this building is new (It was, I haven't seen it months prior), I tried to reach out through the website, but couldn't find anything on this location. We have a bit of a discussion, I notice that he has a helmet and gloves on his desk and we end up talking about motorcycles for a while (I ride). He tells me a bunch of information on the Hedge Fund's function. He knows for sure that they run M&A and Trading(I think this is somewhat odd because I feel that most trading would be done as close to the market infrastructure as possible in the Greater New York area), but most of the guys are directly from the city. I figure they mostly run lateral recruiting as a satellite office. I learn the guys name and we part ways, since the place was so new, the hedge fund there didn't even have a receptionist, so I'll have to do my own research on that one.

Conglomerate financial firm: I pull into the parking lot, and right away I notice a guy in a suit fixing a tire. I had this sort of luck before in a very similar scenario. He's got a flat, and lacks the necessary tool to change it. We converse a bit and I go to my car and get out a lug wrench. It fits his tire and after a bit of effort (lugs were rusted) I pop it off and successfully put the donut on. He gets off the phone with a road assistance service and we chat a bit. I smoothly lead into: "Hey, you work here?" and point to the firm. He let's out a blunt "No." and that was a wrap. At least I helped the guy out, but would I of if I knew it would lead nowhere? Maybe not.

So far, fruitless, but I feel like it's at least a good social exercise.