Finance after the Military
Hello monkeys,
I'm a new member but have been using the site for about a year now. I'm a college student and have been considering a program for the Marine Corps that would include officer commission after graduation and 4 years of active duty requirement. I wanted to poke around and see if anyone has had any insight into the financial world as a former military member or if you know or worked with anyone that is/was. I want to hear about the experience, lifestyle adjustments, successes and failures, and how to get a target job that can open doors for many different paths after 4 years in the USMC. Any insight?
Military officer transitioning to finance career (Originally Posted: 10/01/2014)
I am getting out of the Navy after deciding that flight school was not for me. I have degree in economics from a non-target school. Since college I have been interested in financial markets. I'm looking at entry level analyst positions in Boston. I am wondering if firms are averse to hiring veterans and how I can use my background to my advantage.
Look @ Drexel Hamilton, very very receptive to vets. Also have Boston office. Primarily NY/Philly though.
HYP Marine Officer to I-Banking (Originally Posted: 09/06/2013)
Background: Currently Logistics Officer in USMC, in charge of 25+ Marines in an infantry battalion. HYP graduate in political science with a ~3.1 GPA. Varsity athlete for 2 years. Financial Officer of social club of over 250 members. Will (most likely) get out of Marine Corps with one non-combat deployment (not by choice, just the way it shakes out). 24 year old white male.
Looking to start business school/finance-related job in fall of 2015
A few questions --
Is my only (or best) option to go to a T15 business school then start work as an associate in ibanking? Or could I go straight in without grad school?
With my weaknesses -- low GPA, no finance classes in college or experience -- what GMAT would I need to break into the:
Harvard/Stanford/Wharton echelon? (I know these would be stretches) The Columbia-NYU tier? and the UCLA/Texas tier?
My top and realistic choice as I see it now is NYU Stern, because I would love to be in NYC, thats where I want to work afterwards, and it has a topnotch finance program. Paying sticker price is not an issue.
All advice or comments welcome on all fronts. Thanks, guys.
Military places very well out of bschool. Hyp will help a ton. Can't speak to straight entering but with a good GMAT should have no issues getting into a top 10.
I saw you posted on Houston earlier - ex-military (inc plenty of marines) is pretty well represented in Houston/O&G so you could definitely tap into that network if you wanted to go the UT route. Regardless of where, people are definitely funny about going straight in, esp w/o finance background. Whereas there's a pretty well paved path military-MBA-associate and from your background sounds like you'd be well placed to do that.
Military to Finance? - Experiences so far in finance (Originally Posted: 04/04/2007)
Hi everybody. I'd just like to hear about some of your experiences so far in finance/i-banking/PE/hedges. I'm currently an active-duty officer in the US Army stationed in Asia. I've been in the Army for about three years now, seven years if you count my four years at West Point. I plan on leaving the military in early 2010 and I was looking into finance to see if that was a viable career option for me. I'll be 27 yrs old in 2010. In one of those quirks of life, I was sitting in the Oak Bar at the Park Hyatt in Roppongi Hills, Tokyo when I started talking with this drunk dude drinking by himself. My gf was talking with her friend in Japanese, which means that my non-Japanese speaking self couldn't do much but sneak glances at her friend's cleavage. Anyway, that got old and this dude and I started talking and he said that he's in private equity, and we started talking about all sorts of stuff. Private equity sounded pretty interesting: taking firms that aren't doing too well, turning them around and selling them. That little conversation got me started on this road that I am on now. By no means do I make any pretensions at knowing anything about finance so I was wondering if any of you out there could fill me in on what it's like to live a banker's life. I know the compensation is good, the hours are long and that it's brutal at times. What kind of qualifications are necessary? Are the hours worth the money? Do you see yourself doing this for more than a few years?
If you can fight a war, you can handle i-banking without a doubt and you will actually be well compensated for getting yelled out 24/7 as opposed to the military
with your west point backround, have you looked at getting into the top mba schools and coming in as an assoc? we used to have a wharton resume file on here with a hundred or so student resumes. i was surprised by the number of officers there. your leadership skills will be assumed, and the mba will help you learn the finance you need.
Most likely you'll need an MBA to break in. Once you have that you are golden. Both MBA admissions offices and every conceivable profession in the business world (finance, consulting, everything) absolutely loves prior military. I separated from the military a few years back and then went to b-school. It's tough to break in without the MBA, but once you're in you're golden.
Get your MBA and you will have no issues getting into IB(use your Academy contacts). However, make sure you get your MBA post military as opposed to having to return to the military for a couple years after MBA.
I work with a few West Point and Naval Academy grads. They were in a similar position as you 5-10 years ago and made the transition without a problem. They all have their MBAs from top schools (Chicago, Penn, UCLA) and transitioned into banking. I enjoy working with these guys because they're straight forward, no-frills and are adept at dealing with shit.
One used his West Point connections to land a gig and one did recruiting through traditional MBA on-campus recruiting.
I think you're in a great position to take advantage of getting into IB after an MBA. From what I can view, if you come from a solid military background you have a leg-up on getting into a top MBA program because your experience and training is very unique.
Thanks guys for the insights. Looks like I'll need to get myself an MBA, I was planning on getting one anyway so it dovetails nicely. Thanks again for the info.
I'm in the same situation, only I'm Aviation and won't get out till I'm 29. Is there a major problem getting out of an MBA at 31? I'll have about 7 years of military experience (currently doing logistics for my battalion) and from the looks of it a very small bit of experience flying, which shouldn't have anything to do with application.
Firms understand that MBAs who were prior military will be at the upper end of the age range. It doesn't matter at all. The only thing is whether or not you are willing to put up with some of the bullshit you'll have to deal with. I was prior military, and finished b-school around around 31. My tolerance for crap is a lot lower than, say, the analyst on my desk. So as long as you don't let that hurt you then the age doesn't make a difference to any firm.
Military to Finance - Learning how to break in the industry (Originally Posted: 01/04/2013)
Hey everyone, I'm currently in the Military and I've been lurking like a mad man trying to learn how to break into Wall Street. I still have 2 years before I'm out, but I'm trying to prepare myself to finish UG and make a break into, hopefully, a top MBA. As I've come to learn I will be too old to go the Analyst route and Associate is my best bet.
Due to large opportunity cost and flat out large costs of schooling I'm interested in other's experiences. Has anyone else made some successful conversions? What are some tips that anyone could offer to a late start like myself. I appreciate any helpful advice.
I think you need to give more info for people here to help you. I'm just a college student, but I think someone who went to West Point and graduated at the top of their class would be treated very differently than someone with a more "ordinary" background, right?
I have a question for you. Let's say I go to OCS (Navy or Air Force) after college. I don't make them pay my students loans or anything. I take no incentive going in. I do my 4 years and get out.
How much $$$ can I get towards B-School through the GI Bill?
If you go the OCS route, you will get 100% GI bill funding after you complete 3 years of active duty. This will cover a chunk of tuition, a chunk of fees, and a living allowance for the 9 months school is in session. Each school has a different approach to how much money they will allow a GI bill student. In general, most state schools will cover 100% of tuition and fees. For private schools, you can get anywhere from 100% at places like Kellogg and Tuck, to 30-40% at other institutions.
Not much. It depends on the school. The GI Bill has a ceiling. All tuition above that ceiling is paid by the schools Yellow Ribbon Program. The YRP is an agreement with the school and the government to pay additional money on your behalf towards school. XYZ university has a policy to give x amount of students y amount of money and the government also pays y.
For instance, take my situation. I need to stay in STL due to my wife's school needs (I would love to go to Boston, maybe after school.) I am applying to WUSTL and SLU as a veteran transfer (I earned an Associate's degree during my enlistment). IMO WUSTL is the better of the two, many of you would probably agree. If I get into WUSTL, I'll get 100% full ride. At SLU, I'll likely end up with a small amount of student loans because their YRP is not nearly as generous as WUSTL's.
Disclaimer: Stupid spelling errors and awful grammatical errors are due to this evenings alcohol ingestion.
The numbers for the Post-911 GI Bill is no more than 100% of the most expensive IN-STATE public school to be applied anywhere for a maximum of 36 months. Plus a housing allotment. Anyway, I'm just curious to see if anyone has made the transition from enlisted or officer into IB. I don't care if you did your UG before or after service, I'm just asking about your experiences, your story on what you did to make it in and if you found anything unique with your situation, as in you had to jump through certain military only hurdles.
Don't get sidetracked with the money thing, I'm still gonna whore myself out to every grant and scholarship out there under the sun, it's not really an obstacle right now.
Not to pry too much, but how old are you? You say you are too old for banking, but there are quite a few analysts in my group alone that are nearing their 30's. Granted, either they worked in business/banking for a couple of years and took a detour and then (re)joined banking, but the point remains that the ceiling age for being an analyst might be higher than you think...
If that happens to be the case, then I would start taking business, finance, and accounting classes at the college where you are enrolled currently, and then contact alums of the school or more preferably, others who have served in your branch (or the military in general) and are at places where you'd be interested in working.
Cypress,
Two routes to go:
Military -> Analyst. You'll need to finish up your undergrad degree and have a good GPA. More importantly, you'll need to get your foot in the door. Start reaching out to vets in finance on LinkedIn...it's a small, tight knit community, and can really open doors for you. Also, quite a few of the big banks have programs specifically for vets...Goldman is one of them.
Military -> MBA -> Associate. Again you'll need to finish up your undergrad. Keep in mind, that all schools are not created equal in the eyes of the adcom...be wary of the for-profit/online college degrees. Regardless, finish with a high GPA. Study for the GMAT and do well on it. Adcoms typically don't know what constitutes a successful military career or a humdrum one, so don't worry too much about that. Get into the best MBA program you can, and the rest will take care of itself.
FWIW, Post 9/11 GI Bill does help, but like you said, it's capped. So, unless you max out your GI Bill and qualify for the Yellow Ribbon Program, the benefits aren't as great as they would seem at first.
I need one more piece of advice.
My plan is OCS> 4 Years > MBA.
Would I be better off not getting my college loans repaid by going to OCS? What I mean is by taking the loan repayment option by going to OCS, could I be:
Increasing my obligation to more than 4 years?
Reducing the amount for the GI Bill/YRP for my MBA?
Guys, read this blog: http://militarytobusiness.blogspot.com/2012/07/post-911-gi-bill-for-bus…
Why exactly do you want to go into the military?
Military to Finance - Service commitment is coming up (Originally Posted: 06/02/2008)
I'm in the military and my service commitment is coming up in the near future. I'm looking to go to biz school to help me transition to the civilian sector. I like working with money and am looking for advice on specific jobs/firms within the finance industry that would be my best fit. I prefer working with people and don't mind long hours. I'm also used to working in stressful situations. I like giving people advice on their financial situations and even manage a couple of my friend's budgets. Anyways, I have a 3.2 GPA from Duke in electrical engineering and a 750 GMAT (if this info helps at all in recommending firms). Thanks.
Are you looking for recommendations on what B-school you should attend, or what firm/position you should be looking for?
Looking more for firms/positions.
From your description of what you like, it sounds like Wealth Management would be a good fit. You have a good resume, and would have a lot of options, so I'd only do the PWM thing if it truly is your passion. You would certainly have more exit options if you went the IB or S&T route, but if sitting in front of a computer screen for 20 hours a day and banging on excel isn't your passion, you might just end up hating life.
Just my $.02
Either you sling crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot
What's the path for getting into wealth management? Do you normally do a couple years in IB or S&T first?
what's stressful about Wealth Management?
The trade off is that you will spend the bulk of your time with less complex products and smaller deals because you are usually servicing either retail clients or very small institutional clients. In addition, 9 times out of 10 the pay will be much lower. In the past some private banks had an eat-what-you-kill mentality than allowed them to get paid well (picture the Bear Stearns "brokers" you read about on Bloomberg getting $2-3 million comp packages--good pay, but definitely lower in prestige, exit opps, etc. than the guys in IB or S&T). But many banks are now moving to a different Private Banking model that is much more collaborative and team-oriented, which in turn improves the culture/work-life balance, but cuts even further into your pay.
Dont' get me wrong--private banking and PWM are great career fields and can be very lucrative, but they are very different in many aspects from IBD and S&T (which are in turn very different from each other, as well). Each of the 3 career fields will attract very different types of people with different goals.
Definitely agree with Skins1.
Even in the Asset Management subset, Private Banking takes a backseat to the Institutional Investment Management, with PWM being the bottom of that totum pole in terms of pay/prestige/exit ops at a junior level.
I certainly appreciate all of your inputs on wealth management. From my very brief description of myself, are there other ibanking fields you all would recommend?
Honestly, don't sweat it to much right now. Go to b-school and figure it out there. Once you get to b-school you will have the opportunity to meet people from every imaginable background, and you'll learn a lot more there than you will on this board. In addition, full-time recruiting starts about 1 month after you get to school--you'll learn a ton during recruiting.
That said, do NOT spread yourself too thin. You can wait until school starts to figure out what you want to do, but you need to be sure you at least limit your focus rather quickly. Very, very few people successfully do recruiting for S&T, IBD, and consulting and still land job offers. You usually need to limit it to 1 or 2 core areas. And as far as firms are concerned, don't worry about that. That will work itself out in the end, and firm choice is very dependent on you chosen career field, chosen team/desk, etc.
Good point about the firms skins. I'll just let it ride. Only thing is I'd like to have my career goals a little more solidified for my bschool app. Unfortunately,being in the military I don't get a chance to interface with any investment bankers, etc. so I don't have too much detailed insight into these fields.
Don't worry too much about that, either. Just pick a story/goal and stick to it. Also, ad coms fully understand that people coming from "non-traditional" backgrounds are going to have a general career change as their main goal.
When I was doing apps I thought I wanted to doing consulting, since the vast majority of vets in b-school do consulting. So that's what I wrote in my essay. Then everything changed and I switched to S&T. Ironically, I was the only military vet at my school that went into S&T, and one of only a handful that did finance at all. The rest of them were M/B/B for consulting.
And the funny part about this was that all the other vets avoided S&T with a general attitude of: yes, I know I can make more money there than in IB or consulting, but it's too risky. Coming from a bunch of combat vets, go figure.....
Thanks skins. I'll pick one career field and stick to it in my essays. What branch of the service were you in and where did you go to biz school? Did you go through recruiting for ibanking and consulting while you were in business school?
I was pretty much set on S&T by the end of the first semester. I did go to a few info sessions on consulting, but I never pursued it. For IB and S&T you spend the first few months of schools going to info sessions (all on campus) that were bank-wide, and then going to S&T specific cocktail hours/info sessions, then doing 1 trading floor visit per bank, etc. All that will fill up your schedule very quickly. Then add trading simulations or lectures hosted by banks on campus, and a few other events, and basically you're slammed through the winter break.
So S&T and IB recruiting is very heavy on the meet and greet on the front-end, and then you spend the last few weeks before interviews just studying and prepping for technical questions. Consulting recruiting, on the other hand, is very heavy on the back end--you have much more free time early on, and then the last month or so you are prepping non-stop for the case interviews. So because the timing is different, I have seen people do both. But it's very hard, and most people just end up spreading themselves too thin and getting no offers. So it's better to focus on one area--that's the way to land multiple offers and give yourself the best chance (caveat that current job market conditions are obviously a huge player--I graduated during the boom so it was quite different from the situation now).
Standby for an email.
Are you in Sales or Trading? I'm sure you can indicate preference, but how does the decision on where you end up get fleshed out by your firm?
Also, people talk a lot about "exit options" being good from S&T. What options are these (looking for examples)? I suppose most would be interested in sticking w/ a finance/Wall Street oriented role thereafter, but do people go into corporate jobs after S&T, say, in the industry they focused on during trading (e.g. industrials, transportation, etc.)?
I ask about exit options b/c although IB-type jobs interest me, I worry that it is due more to the mystique of the Street and pay than to a genuine interest in the role these positions play in the economy. I know my initial-impressions of the industry (from reading only) as a glorified middle-man are not unique or original, but it bothers me a bit that I may not feel like I'm adding useful value. I think S&T would give me a deep understanding of financial markets (and an excellent pay check), but if the initial attraction wore off after a few years, what are the ways you can capitalize on that experience and skill set?
I'm starting business school this fall and have been furiously investigating IB careers. But like the OP, I'm currently in the military and have little exposure to former professionals (other than a couple people I met during admit weekend).
Thanks for any input you care to provide.
Career After Navy (Originally Posted: 10/03/2013)
I am a Submarine Lieutenant in the U.S. Navy with 1-2 years left on my commitment. I'm looking for career/grad school options for after I get out of the Navy. I enjoy higher level math and am looking for a career that is more quantitative/analytical and intellectually stimulating. I did an intro to finance Coursera course and am now interested in a career in finance, but am not sure where to start. The navy has taught me a lot about leadership, but I have no financial experience. Can someone help point me in the right direction?
Some other questions I have: - MFin vs MBA - MFin seems more quantitative, but will an MBA give me a better start to my career or will they steer me down different career paths? - CFA - At what point should I work on getting a CFA? - I'm also considering a career as an actuary or getting a PhD in Applied Math (non-academic career). Can anyone weigh in on those options?
You probably need to zero in on what you want to do before anybody can give you sound advice. Finance, actuary, Phd, etc - kinda all over the road. That said, with your background, and I know subs are highly selective, you would make a very competitive MBA candidate provided you do well on gmat.
1st piece of advice, sign up for another four years and take the SEAL challenge. I trained hard during college to do it and pussy'ed out in favor of a finance gig. Regret it to this day : \
To your question, I don't think any other option besides an MBA from a competitive school is worth considering. There are some great quantitative tracks you can take at most good MBA programs specifically at MIT/Sloan, Chicago/Booth and Wharton. I'm guessing if you're sub surface officer you've got an engineering degree. That with some glowing recommendations from your commanding officers will be a really competitive application package. There will be a lot of other military folks in your MBA program, and you'll have some excellent networking opportunities as well as access to career resources just for veterans.
A MFin would be fine, but it's not too much cheaper than an MBA and the networking and career transition resources aren't nearly as robust. Plus a MFin will only give you a few additional specific finance courses vs an MBA.
The CFA would also be helpful for you, but that is 3 year process that can be expensive given you won't have sponsorship from a company. If you're not working during that time, that's a 3 year employment gap. Come back to this further down the road if you think it's necessary.
Use the post 9/11 to go get your MBA at a top school. I know Cornell's yellow ribbon is unlimited and I will probably be targeting there in the future. I'm a four yr vet and in my last yr of undergrad. If you need any advice or help on the transition PM me.
Also look for veterans programs. American Corporate Partners (ACP) is a mentoring program for veterans where you get paired with a successful person in finance. Also recruit military is another one.
1.) Quants have better work/life balance than bankers. 2.) Both have better work/life balance than living on a submarine. 3.) The median banker probably earns more money than the median quant. 4.) Younger MFEs still have the option to get an MBA. 5.) If Uncle Sam is paying for Cornell, Cornell has a fine MBA program, but an excellent ORFE program.
Military to Wall Street (Originally Posted: 04/10/2014)
II have served in the Army for the past 5 years out of college, and I am not looking to enter the financial industry. I have some friends in the IB and Hedge fund world who have differeing opinions on where the best opportunities may lie for me. My quick cv: West Point Grad, Double Major in Economics and Management, Infantry Officer and Ranger (very good leadership/management experience), Combat Veteran.
The major weakness (and I realize this is MAJOR) is my undergrad GPA was a horrific 2.5. Without making too pathetic of an excuse, I will simply say that I was too focused on prepairing for Afghanistan more than worrying about getting a civilian
With that poor of a GPA and no grad school (yet), is it possible for me to transition into the trading world, IB, etc? One possibility would be Merrill Lynch's PMD financial advisor program. I have a connection there, and apparently GPA is less of a concern there since you are basically in sales.
I realize I am all over the place on my focus, just trying to get a feel for what is even possible with such a blemish on my resume. any input would be greatly appreciated.
Corrections: I AM looking to enter the financial industry, and I was not worrying about getting a civilian job*
Take a job at ML if they offer one. It is a good way in for people that don't have traditional backgrounds. Trading or IB might work for you, if you find someone that sees things the way you do, like another service academy grad. However, it sounds like a tough road. It is better to take something that will get your foot in the door first.
With an MBA from a good school it's definitely doable. I worked in Accounting and Finance for 10+ years and got a part-time MBA. I still couldn't break in at the bank I already worked at. Yet the guy I networked with who had the job I wanted had never worked in finance, but spent time fighting in Afghanistan. IB loves military guys because they know you won't complain. If they say run through that wall - you will do it.
So your story is this: Can you work hard and be a leader? WEST POINT check. Can you handle the finance aspect? Well your weak GPA doesn't address that question so an MBA from a reputable school should round you out nicely.
Keep in mind I'm talking about investment banking. That is completely different from being a financial advisor. FA is a sales job with little to no budget. IB is more structured and will give you a healthy skill set to take out into the worforce should you decide you want to get out of IB.
useful advice right here +1
If you want to defer getting into Wall Street by 2-3 years but increase your chances considerably, I would highly recommend you to take the GMAT and apply to a top 5 MBA. I would be very surprised coming from West Point and serving as a Ranger would not get you an acceptance in the top 5. HBS especially loves someone with your background and top MBA programs pretty much make an exception on their unstated age cap for ex-military guys.
Thanks for the replies. This website is awesome.
Grad schools makes the most sense. The issue with that is I have a family and need to provide for them,so full time student is not in my future. I could try and get a typical corporate job (finance, management, etc.), do a part-time MBA, and then try and come in at the associate level....maybe. An issue with this strategy is many of the top-tier MBA's dont have part time programs. I also have been told from some IB folks that recruiting is really focues on full time MBA students who can do an internship in the summer between first and second year.
I dont see too much love on WSO for the Financial Advisor role. Why is that? Seems like you could make a great living by most peoples standards (200K+ if you are successful and put your time in), better worklife balance than what I read about more traditional wall street roles, and you can live in, say Naples, Florida or San Diego instead of being tied to NYC. Whats the deal?
Hey man, just wanna say thanks for serving our country. To address some of your questions:
1) Wharton, Kellogg and Booth all have part-time MBAs the last time I checked. 2) Do you get to go to school for free if you choose to? I am very unfamiliar with this, but my best friend from high school also served in Afghanistan (he did not have your pedigree - no West Point, no special forces), came back, finished undergrad, finished med school (all fully paid for by the govt) and now is in his orthopedic surgery residency. One of my buddies also did a full-time MBA with a family so I don't think it would be absolutely impossible to do. Your family will have to be very understanding and that those 2 years would be a major and worthwhile investment. 3) Most of the ppl on here are either in school or less than a decade out of school, so they naturally gravitate towards a corporate setting (myself included) b/c we've all been largely institutionalized. I think being an FA could be a great career opportunity but carries a lot of risk not unlike other entreprenural ventures. Yes, you will need to be a great salesman and build your book. I actually wonder what the fail rate for FA is. But the idea of sales/cold-calling/talking to strangers without some social lubrication is actually quite uncomfortable for many, so I'd magine thats why there isn't much love on this forum.
Wow Silver, after reading the replies from other people deeper in that space, I think it might sound like I am selling you short. There seems to be good advice on this board. Where are you located? That might help you determine what to do.
Thanks again for all the responses. I am currently in North Carolina, but I can move pretty much anywhere in about 6 months. The Army will relocate me as far as New York, and anything further will get paid for by my wifes company (she works from a home office so she can relocate very easily). I am 27 btw. Someone mentioned age cap...is this an issue at 27?
At the moment Dallas, TX is making the most sence if I decide to go the FA route..
With your background, you should be networking your ass off and most importantly, no one will care about your GPA.
Vets place very well into SnT. Suggest you get on LinkedIn and search for vets at each IB; there are many vet programs and the heads of them are easily accessible. You're an Academy grad so you have a vast network on the street; use it to your advantage. Have your story straight about what you want to do and start doing info interviews for next year's vet programs (GS VIP, BAML Vet program, and JPM'S vet program).
Thanks Ivy, sounds like you have some first hand experience in this realm. I would PM you, but I dont have enough points yet...new to this website.
Does anyone have first hand experience with the big institutional vet programs? I would like to hear more about it...I have googled around and not a ton of information on the company websites/articles floating around the internet
You could use the post 9/11 GI Bill to get a full-time MBA. They give you BAH of an E-5 while you are in school. I'm using the post 9/11 for undergrad (enlisted for 4 years) and get 2K a month in BAH in the Boston area while my tuition is fully covered as well at a private college costing about 35K a year
Texas is my home of record, but im originally from NYC. I am very familiar with the GI Bill...but thanks for bringing it up. Basically the way my situation works out I can have half of a public MBA at either UT or UNC, or 10k towards a private MBA. As far as stretching my benefits go, if I were to go back to school on my own texas or UNC would probably be the best ROE, but then again if I can get into a top tier program (not likely with my GPA I think) the money spent branding myself as a harvard, Booth, etc. alumni is probably well spent.
GI Bill + BAH + State Unemployment + Disability--> MBA
A single guy could easily milk this on his own. It may be manageable for your family depending on where you live and your wife's income. I'd definitely use up the GI Bill though.
I'm a little late on a reply, sorry. But it seems like you are getting a great deal of good advice here. I can only add that UT would be much better than UNC. And If you stay around Texas a UT MBA is going to be a big advantage for you, all the way around. I'm in Chicago and I would say that overall it has a very good rep here. It's not Booth or Kellogg or even Mendoza, but I have never heard of anyone getting knocked for having gone to McCombs.
Military pilot to finance (Originally Posted: 11/19/2014)
Hello all,
Like the title suggested, I'm an active duty AF pilot who's exploring opportunities in finance. MBA and CFA Level I complete... currently trying to figure out where I fit in. I've been researching Goldman's Veterans Integration Program, and I'd be curious to hear about experiences during the internship. My leanings are toward research/Asset Management, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know what I don't know.
Glad to be here; ready to learn.
He hasn't answered any questions on his "AMA", but try reaching out to this guy: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ask-me-anything-non-traditional-b…
Navy Officer Exits? Career Alternatives? (Originally Posted: 11/17/2010)
Hi All,
My situation is that I'm an undergrad senior at a 2nd/3rd tier business school with a 3.7 GPA. I'll be graduating in the spring with a BSBA in finance and accounting. My resume is full, I've held leadership positions in multiple organizations and relevant internships in financial services every summer since my freshman year. Also planning on taking CFA level I this summer.
I am looking for a full-time position in corporate finance following graduation and have very limited job prospects at the present time. Graduate school at a top tier program is on my timeline, although not immediately due to the obvious lack of full-time experience.
I've been strongly considering going the route of the military as a Navy Officer following graduation and that seems to be more of a reality each day.
Does anyone have any insight as to full-time prospects within corporate finance/IB upon exiting the military/Navy as an officer? What about top tier (Top 10) grad schools?
Also, any recommendations are appreciated.
Hi Wints,
If you're looking for jobs, here is a job board (it's quite new) with the latest vacancies available on the BusinessBecause website. These are jobs dealing with financial analysis, project leaders and other business/finance related job openings which have been posted on their job board. It'll be useful to check out as you're on the look out for jobs in the corporate finance sector.
The link is http://www.businessbecause.com/jobs.htm.
You will have to register on the site to view full details (just takes a couple of mins), but it'll be worth it! The jobs are all over - US, London, China etc. Have a look! It'll help! Thanks and good luck! :)
what kind of officer? better be flight PEWPEW
From Active Duty Military to Trading w/ MS in Finance (Originally Posted: 08/22/2007)
Evening,
Next summer I will complete my MSc In finance. I will have taken the most trading oriented classes available in my program, to include a financial innovations class (mostly structured products), financial modeling, futures & options, investment management analysis (I realize this does nothing for trading other than understanding fundies and understanding how mutual/pension funds think), and security analysis & firm valuation (again same thing).
Question at hand. I will have two years remaining for my active duty military commitment. I'm debating what I should do during those two years. Its quite obvious I will not be able to work a second job, with the possibility of deployment and the regular hourly time commitment to the job. I have considered the CFA, but I don't really want to trade equities and CFA doesn't do much unless going into asset management (possibility for gaining myself credibility if going into a hedge fund; at least I "understand" risk). I have already read a ton of books on the psychology and systems behind trading, and will continue to do so. I don't have the capital to actively trade, but I do a little bit of option activity.
I guess I'm asking for suggestions on how to further enhance my case here. Background info: 3.7 GPA double major Econ/SC&IS from Big 10 school, ROTC, Lacrosse, Fraternity in undergrad. Have the street connections (possibility @ Goldman, Merrill, Morgan, KKR, CIBC, TD Securities, UBS). MSc from Colorado - realize it isn't Princeton or Berkeley, but was where I was stationed and I'll finish w/ close to a 4.0. Feel it may be unnecessary both time-wise and $ wise to go to MBA school but would shoot for Columbia, NYU, Penn, Harvard, MIT, Chicago if you think its absolutely critical (quite positive it isn't for trading + I have the connections)... anyway just putting it out there.
Thanks in advance...
Before I finish my MS, my plan is to start a Sales/Trading club at the school, bc it does not exist. Not only can I find people w/ similar interests, but it will obviously help score motivation points on the resume.
I already do a fairly significant amount of charity work, but will contribute more with the available time.
...so in other words, youre hot $hit.
CFA is useless in trading, MBA only marginally better. You already know this, though!
Get a job after your duty is up is the best advice youre going to get.
I hate to be a dick especially to a soldier but other than a whole lot of bragging what was the point of this post?
I'm really wondering what else I can do to improve my profile. I don't have the Wharton/Princeton/Harvard thing though everything else seems to fit.
I feel I can competently get through interviews, and I can probably get a good word put in, but I'd like to be demonstratively better on paper than my competition. There's no telling where the markets will be in two years, so self-improvement is always the best policy in preparation.
I have considered opening a commodities account but don't know if I would have the time or wherewithal to actively trade. Plus most retail investors lose their shirts in commodities because those assets more than anything else are driven by the size and volume of trades...
Definitely don't have the $ to do index futures. I could just amplify my commitment to an options account but would have to trade at night so primarily japanese market since I can't trade during work.
Your going to have a hard time unless your connections are good.
Though I will say military types tend to have a good shot because they bring less attitude/ego to the table
Isn't the biggest thing in trading discipline, decisiveness, and conviction, but also pragmatism when the tide turns?
Merrill connections in trading are on credit swaps desk.
Morgan trading connections are in commodities & equity futures.
KKR guy used to be at Goldman, classic ibanking but probably knows some folks.
Another Goldman contact on sales side for interest rate products in hedge fund sector.
TD guy helps arrange financing for hedge fund and institutional traders.
Can get a professor recommendation PhD MIT, was economist at NY Fed, then bond quant, then customized interest rates for secondary market structured products (something to that effect) @ Citibank in mid-late 80s... currently consults w/ foreign govts on regulatory matters for primary markets.
EDIT - Another connection just moved to ECM syndicate desk at DB, unknown sector at this point
Here's some honest friendly (though it may not sound like it) advice that I really hope you can take to heart.
Find something you want to do and go after it!!
If your going to let the fact that you didnt go to an ivy league college control youre life and make you feel insecure despite having a graduate degree, military experience, and all the rest, then I feel sorry for you.
Let me please refer to my original post asking what else I can do to enhance my profile for the 24 months following graduation.
The CFA seems a fruitless endeavor for my aspirations. I could take the GMAT until I crush it and apply for MBA school but feel it would be a waste. I could voluntarily deploy for a 365 and will get decorations (they hand them out like candy for going to Iraq/Afghanistan). I could pick up another language (working on Mandarin at the moment). I could try to set up a full derivatives account using tradestation and various other platforms/strategy/algorithmic software. I could get significantly better at computer programming.
My point is, aside from the cultural value derived from a language, or the raw experience of a deployment, all of the other options I have listed seem rather benign with respect to any value-added proposition for my profile.
That is why doing a full-time MBA is so key for prior military personnel. Email me offline is you want to discuss in more detail....
Anybody else have any input? I appreciate all the help thus far.
Transitioning Military Officer (Originally Posted: 12/14/2013)
I am a Junior Military Officer with a Bachelors in Finance. I am really interested in getting into investment banking. I have been doing a lot of research and thinking about entering the field. I have always really enjoyed everything involved in finance. I am trying to reach to get any information on roadblocks, or areas of education to pursue before i finish out my service obligation. I am thinking of just taking the time off to get my MBA, but i am not sure if this is the best way. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
American Corporate Partners. See if they can hook you up with someone who has been down the path you're looking at. Good networking opportunity at the very least.
^^This 100%
A friend majoring in accounting was given a mentor who was a principal at Deloitte. At the time, I was interested in corporate law, so I was partnered with an attorney at a big insurance firm.
This has been covered ad nauseum. Just search the dozen or so similar threads. Advice remains the same.
Transitioning Military (Originally Posted: 12/01/2013)
I'm at the end of my roughly 4 year commitment as an officer in the army and trying to get some insight into whether it's worth going to business school given my civilian career ambitions if I were to pursue them. Specifically, I'm interested in either finance or consulting but have no background in either. What I do have is my military experience, including a deployment to Iraq, and a humanities degree from a top 3 undergrad. I've also taken the GRE and done well enough on it for the top schools. How big of a risk do you think I'd be taking to go to b-school and try to land a job in finance or consulting? Do I have better odds in one field over the other given my background? Thank you for your advice.
Many banks have special programs for Vets so I would look for that if I were you.
Air Force Officer, Transition to Ibank (Originally Posted: 08/14/2006)
Tried this is another forum and didn't get any responses, saw this forum got a little bit more traffic.
I'm approaching the end of my four year commissioning commitment to the Air Force. I've always mentally wanted to go back to one of the bulge bracket firms in Investment Banking/Private Equity preferably in New York or London (I'm 100% sure I can handle the hours and I'm not close to 30)... My educational background is a 3.7ish GPA double major in logistics and economics from a decent Big Ten school. I also have minors in political science and international business. I studied abroad in an economics exchange at a top UK school my junior year of college. I was in ROTC and also played club lacrosse in undergrad, also worked in academic consulting jobs (research centers) while in school. I have some ties to the street from old frat buddies but most of them are in private client and operations groups which I'm not particularly interested in. I have yet to take the GMAT, but my background is math intensive so the quant section should be a breeze. With some studying I should be able to swing around a 700. When I was in HS I go 800 on Writing SAT II and had a 720 on the Reading SAT I.
My officer specialty was in finance/cost analysis, though I know the remarkably different sort than that which financial firms look for. Basically I was analyzing the cost effectiveness of major air force acquisition projects and helping to determine a decision whether or not to buy/continue/not buy/cancel contracts with major companies. I have also worked in the (similar to) 'corporate finance' side in which I analyze budgets for a large section of bases at a time, and my input gets directly tied into Base Realignment and Closure Decisions, Recruiting Goals, Pay Table Increases, etc. I have management experience ... Finally, I'm conversational (by no means fluent) in Arabic as well as Spanish.
Is there anyway I could bypass B-School and go right to a position in a BB firm? I'd appreciate any other advice.
With your history why dont you go to B School then hit the street... You dont want to be stuck at the bottom of the barrel if you have the opportunity/ background to start as an associate... Dude i would hit B school, use your frat connections to get you an internship during your first year then, when looking for a full time job you can point to some relevant experience.
I guess I figure that if I could get my foot in the door I could dominate the younger competition and get promoted earlier. With my military experience I understand what it means to go these ridiculously long hours especially with a demonstrated focus. I have a pretty solid understanding of the market and I honestly wouldn't mind doing either M&A or S&T, though I know they are entirely different beasts. I just don't want to get stuck in OPS or Analysis recommendations as a full time job.
however you will have some good competition, and promotions are always tricky to forecast (a lot of it depends on personality fit with higher ups etc.) You also assume there will actually be the right opportunities to distinguish yourself, which may or may not be true.
Given that you aren't even in the industry yet, making this kind of assumptions seems a stretch. I think you'd save yourself a lot of grief by doing an MBA. Save yourself the gruelling analyst years (you don't lose time (possibly actually gain one) just the cost of the MBA), get an insurance policy in case economy turns sour, and give yourself a chance to try IB during summer.
http://www.ml.com/index.asp?id=7695_47761
I found this today and thought of you.
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