Part-time MBA at Booth
So I know that part-time MBA is primarily for those who wish to stay at their current firm and receiving sponsorship. But at Booth the part-time students are allowed access to on-campus recruiting and networking events if they sign a waiver.
I've heard though that the full-timers resent and look down on part-timers who show up at these events. Would it be possible for a part-time student with good work experience to get a job through OCR? In particular, i'm thinking of BB trading and investment management.
what waiver is this?
and i heard that part timers dont get OCR at a vast amount of schools, booth included.. the booth woman who runs recruiting (or used to a year or two ago)was quoted as saying that part timers should know theyre buying a different product
furthermore the recruiting firms may heavily favor a full time vs a part time
It's a waiver where you basically say that you are not receiving firm sponsorship.
I'm 100% sure that they get access to OCR. Now, whether or not they can get jobs through OCR is a totally different story.
Also, someone said you can transfer from PT to FT at Booth. No idea if that's accurate though.
I think you can attend any OCR events you want to, but that doesn't mean all firms that are part of recruiting would consider you. I think if you are established in the industry already, and all you're really missing is the top MBA brand name, then it might be a good idea for you to go. Worst case, you will be able to utilize the Booth name on your resume for a move from your current employer (if they don't give you a promotion which they probably wont) to another one via a headhunter/recruiter. Most people will tell you that it's a bad move to do the part-time, but I think doing it at a top school if you're not "breaking in" anymore is a perfectly good move as after OCR nobody gives a shit if you went part-time or not.
This seems about right. I'm trying to make a transition from prop trading to bulge bracket trading or investment management, so full-time is ideal, but i already got dinged at booth full-time and don't think i can get in. My firm definitely won't pay for it, so it will be $100K out of the pocket. I just want access to OCR; if i can land interviews i'm confident that i can impress them and get an offer.
If you're trying to make a transition, part-time is not going to help you. You're right that they can get access to OCR, but most firms don't take them seriously. I know for a fact from talking to friends that the full-timers make fun of the part-timers and look down on them. And employers know that the caliber of students at FT is DRASTICALLY higher than PT. I would say the difference is akin to comparing students at harvard undergrad to ohio state; it really is that vast. Consequently, banks, hedge funds, and IM firms will not give booth part-timers the time of day during recruiting season.
I don't know that I agree to banks, HF, and IM firms not giving a Booth MBA the time of day. I think if you're trying to break into the industry, then no, they probably wouldn't care much and you'd be screwed. For someone that is already in Trading, I think the MBA will be fine regardless of whether or not it's part-time. Also, who gives a fuck what full-time clowns think? I wouldn't care. It would be better to go FT as opposed to PT, but not everyone can afford to make that sacrifice. It really comes down to what you can do and what you can't do. In my arena, you need an MBA to get out of Associate land as clients want to see Booth on your profile. Your profile doesn't say PT Booth.
Recruiting teams at the investment banks will usually not give serious consideration to part-time students for the following reason, which you stated...
This is also why full-time students often look down on the part-time students that attend recruiting events. Many of these students are in the part-time program specifically as a back-door attempt to get access to full-time services.
Also, Booth used to let a few of part-time students transfer to the full-time program, but that has been phased out.
This is correct. Let me put it this way. When part-time students show up at booth recruiting events, they have to wear different colored name tags. Full-timers have told me that they look down on and treat them with contempt. Employers will treat you no more kindly; they will know that you did not have what it took to get into booth full-time, so why would they waste their offers on you? This is especially true with elite finance jobs. You really think citadel, SAC, PIMCO, wellington, etc., will give offers to a booth part-timer? Lol. If you believe that, then you've more serious issues to worry about.
Save yourself the $100K. Why would you spend all that money, take classes at night, just to be looked down upon by the companies you want to work at?
I can assure you that one out of the four you list will give offers to someone that has an MBA from Booth and did not get it doing the FT program. This is not via OCR, rather an experienced hire that came on board after having finished their MBA at a program similar to Booth's. This is why I have reiterated that an experienced person that needs an MBA for their job and can't afford to take 2 years off can be well suited to do a part-time program from a top school. I may or may not work/have worked for one of the aforementioned and been involved in the hiring of such an individual.
I have to weigh in because I personally know someone that went part time at Booth into BB IBD.
But more importantly, if your dream is BB trading/investment management, sack up and make a decision. Your business school choice is not going to dictate whether you can achieve what you want.
There will always be a few exceptions like this. However, there are also firms that will refuse to consider students in the part time program. They won't do so as an official policy, but will from a practical standpoint.
A lot of the part-timers that got BB and buyside jobs out of part time programs graduated in boom times. My friend that graduated from Wharton PT MBA in 2005 said that lots of PT students got full time offers through OCR. Banks were hiring out the ass back then. I would guess that the market is much different, and there won't be so many jobs to go around for the next few years.
You're part right. Getting a part-time MBA from Booth will potentially help him find a job, if his intention is to conduct a search for a job with a smaller trading or investment management firm that doesn't have a traditional on campus recruiting program.
Unfortunately for the OP, he won't be able to fully attend OCR events. Booth does not let part-time students participate in recruiting events for summer internships -- that's exclusive to full-time students. If he wants to get a job with a BB, it's extremely important that he has an internship with one of those firms.
I'll chime in as a current part-time student at Booth. (ironically an accountant who had an intern IB offer at a BB, but through networking and not Booth)
I think there are two common misconceptions about Booth part-time.
One is that if you can't get in full time it's easy to get in part-time. To be honest this isn't true. I haven't meet anyone that was rejected full time and then got admitted part-time. While I'll admit it's slightly easier to get in part-time by looking at the stats, for the most part if you can't get in full time admissions will weed you out in part-time as well (generally your fit essays cannot cover up the known fact you were dinged part time). I think the entering GMAT score was 700 for the last evening round and a bit higher for the weekend. The difference I see is that the F500 type of backgrounds have GMATs inline if not higher than the FT, while the former PE/BB/MBB guys have the prestige name but drag the GMAT scores down a bit.
As for the career switch I see two extremes. There are quite a few people that think they can make a career switch, but the large majority are engineers. If you are an engineer and are not looking to go F500 within your industry (you can change roles) go full-time. Period. While I have a few classmates that are engineers and switched to BB or MBB through the part-time they are the exception and certainly not the norm. You have to bust your chops to get one of these jobs and you are not special especially compared to many folks here.
Additionally I would add that getting internships is not all that hard, but you will not get an MBB/BB or something like DOW unless you are the one out of 300 outlier, PT is not designed to get these internships, realize his now or spend $50K to realize it in a year. While people would obviously struggle to get summer spots with banks, it’s actually not that hard to quit your job and get a F500 internship, esp. if that company doesn’t recruit at Booth. A F500 company that gets your resume and sees Booth will generally give you at least a phone screen even if you come from an irrelevant background pre-MBA, but you are doing all the legwork here, Booth will not help you out and you cannot use Booth access or career services to do this. Because someone will ask this in light of the petition, I would add that this makes perfect sense. PT shouldn’t be allowed to use Booth resources for Internships, you will be told this if you apply and should accept it as the program is designed for working students. Things change and you might want to switch firms/careers and you have 2nd year OCR if that is the case but don’t come in here thinking you’re entitled to go get an internship, if you want one go steal a few away from the Columbia kids.
I find it really odd that there are a massive amount of internet posts from applicants thinking that they can walk into an internship for MBB or BB just because they go to part-time Booth, yet I’ve never meet anyone in the program who thinks this is a high probability possibility. A few try each year, and I would say some succeed (I know 2 part-timers going FT to Mckinsey and probably about 10 to IB or S&T at a BB) but the fact of the matter is that most of these guys have previous BB experience. There are a great number of former BB or MBB guys in the part-time, but they are not going back.
As to the OP’s situation I think this is doable, but Brady has very wise advice. This isn’t a sure thing. You have a decent chance of being unhappy with your decision because your needs are best served full-time. This is Chicago, there are a bunch of traders from all the small shops and even from Goldman, Citadel in the part-time. You will be a dime a dozen within the part-time, and then be competing in OCR against quite a few FT people who have already done the schmoozing for a year.
Booth PT is great if you stay in your industry with similar company size, or if you want to make a career change to F500 functional roles but if you are trying to land a prestige job because you think this is some backdoor into Booth you will most likely waste $100K and be unemployed at the end of it. The guys in PT I’ve interacted are just as smart as the FT I’ve had classes with, but business school for most isn’t about learning, it’s about getting a job (sadly), and everyone at Booth is smart, so it comes down to networking and the pedigree of your resume. There are quite a few at Booth PT who turned down great FT programs but it’s because they only need an MBA for an education or to move up the corporate ladder at their current job. That’s not what you need so don’t convince yourself some piece of paper will make some Bank coming running to get you. The only time that happens for anyone is when Operations keeps calling you incessantly about some great “opportunity”.
The last thing I’d add is in regard to FT jobs through OCR. From the many PT grads I’ve talked with they have told me that there are many more jobs than student (even with PT) and having multiple offers isn’t a problem. The caveat here is you either must look into your previous background (eg for the OP trading to trading) or if you are a career switcher be prepared to step down a level when it comes to consulting and banking (an engineer would end up at a boutique bank fairly easily whereas BB is maybe a 5-10% chance or instead of MBB think Deloitte/ACN/Booz (or Mckinsey BTO not Stat where a few PT went). You can find a job just realize that a job at Goldman is hard enough going FT even if you have stellar credentials, if you’re PT it is statistically possible, but you’re out in that 3 standard deviation area…
Sorry for the tirade, I figured I’d ramble and might answer a question for a lurker in doing so. Feel free to PM me and I could try and put you in contact with some traders in the PT. None of them are trying to switch jobs, most are just nerds that want to take the classes.
To my knowledge the only M7 programs that offer PT MBAs are Kellogg and Chicago. Not so sure if Wharton has PT (from a previous post) but I think that is incorrect.
I generally agree with what has been said about PT vs. FT. Since the OP is looking to make a jump, I would not recommend going PT.
Wharton and Columbia have Part time MBAs or EMBAs
Wharton and Columbia have EMBA programs but neither of them has ever had a part-time program. NYU has a part-time program. Elchupanebre4 described Booth's part-time situation pretty well, although I do know former engineers who have managed to make the jump into finance roles but through networking exclusively.
BUMP
Hello all-this thread is about a year old but i thought i would try to revive it, I recently checked the booth part time statistics and was quite shocked. out of around 250 people who took place in on campus recruiting, 94 have reported that they (1 year removed) are STILL looking for a job!!! Maybe someone whos taking part in OCR can shed light onto this stat, because, part time or not, that is quite a poor showing. I would expect that number maybe if all 250 were trying to get into PIMCO and goldman, but by the list of companies that they report as extending offers to students, the students look like theyll take anything!
any light any one?
Doing an epic bump here to set some things straight about pt MBA. Booth is similar to Kellogg where I know for a fact and with first hand experience that people in pt programs who pursue ocr consistently land gigs at MBB, PE, or HFs. You can't do summer internship that's the only downside. FT kids on average are more polished that pt but they are so bad at interviews and people skills that it's laughable. There are tons of pt kids who are just as smart or smarter than ft. No one in or outside the school cares what program you're in, Saturday pt ft whatever. You have access to many of the resources ft does, just they are not spoonfed to you.
And to all the professors here who "heard from friends", "can assume" or whatever - just stop spreading misinformation. You don't know what you're talking about and you are making yourself look foolish. Stop speaking in broad generalizations and stop putting down pt kids because you somehow can't reconcile that you are wrong about the programs being so different and the logic center of your brain is short circuiting.
They can and do attend ocr, they can and do get excellent offers, employers largely don't care about enrollment, they can and do switch to ft, no one looks down on other people within their own school, and there are smart kids in both programs.
Question to all: Is it theoretically possible to switch to FT Booth if I get transferred or my job gets eliminated? Thanks all!!! I've heard at Kellogg that it's possible, need to hear of any anecdotal evidence at Booth...
At Booth you cannot switch from PT to FT. You can quit your job and attend FT classes from the PT program. Then you'd be "part-time full-time" (technically still a part-time student) which basically means you were admitted into the part-time program and trying to pose as though you were admitted into the full-time program.
There is no doubt that full-timers in general are stronger than the part-timers in terms of gmat scores and pedigree. But from interacting with part-timers through classes, clubs, and OCR, I honestly could not tell a substantive difference for the most part. Their contributions to class were just as strong as the full-timers and in some cases stronger. The bottom of the PT is worse than the bottom of FT while the best full-timers are probably stronger than the best part-timers. But the middle 75-80% were very similar.
It is correct that part-timers cannot participate in summer internship OCR, and for banking that's nearly a deal-breaker since banks do almost their entire full-time hiring from the intern pool. But for consulting and F500, I know plenty who got solid gigs through full-time OCR. I have no idea whether banks "look down" on part-timers since that was never on my mind. I do recall hearing several of my full-time classmates make some disparaging comments on the part-timers diluting our brand and how they envy us due to our social lives, but those comments were in the minority. Perhaps more of them share those sentiments but just don't express them. Who knows.
The anonymous Booth poster above me expressed what seems like self-righteous anger at the part-timers for showing up to OCR events, even saying that they are somehow cheating. I don't quite get this line of reasoning at all. How are they "cheating" if the school allows them to show up? And if they are as weak as you think they are, why would it bother you that they show up since in such a case they are not a threat to you in any way? To hear him describe this "egregious betrayal," one would think that the part-timers are murdering the full-timers out of envy, stealing their identity and student name tags and showing up to OCR events.
Ultimately, after you get your first job out, where you went to school, or what format you were in, makes less of a difference. If you are several years out of b-school and still obsessing over the prestige of various schools and programs, then you really need to get a life.
Everything 1337 says rings true except for one thing. PT Booth students are not allowed to transfer to FT Booth. PT Kellogg student are allowed to transfer to FT, but only with a change in employment status or similar situation.
As a graduate of the Booth full-time program now working in BB IBD, I can say firsthand that there is definitely a difference in the recruiting prospects of part-time students vs full time students. As mentioned above, part time students cannot recruit for internships through OCR - and generally banks source their new hire classes from their internship pool. So that makes getting into banking, at least, considerably harder from the part-time program. Furthermore, from having gone through OCR myself and from my experiences returning to Booth to recruit talent, there is a big difference between part-timers and full-timers. Part-time is a "mixed bag"; there are certainly smart people in the program. However, on average (and there are stats to prove this), their pedigree is much less impressive than the full-timers, and their gmat scores and undergrad gpas are lower. The acceptance rate into part time is considerably higher than into full-time. Furthermore it's fairly obvious when students are using the part-time program as a "back door" because they were not able to get into the full-time program. I would say that most part-timers looking for internships fall into this bucket. As I said, part-timers are not able to participate in OCR for internships, but many will look up alumni in the Booth directory and try to gain an invite to off-campus OCR internship recruiting events (for instance, cocktails and networking at a local bar). These people have always annoyed me, both when I was a student and now. Basically, these part-timers are seeking an internship to switch careers, but as far as I am concerned, are taking the "easy way" - they did not go through the same admissions hurdles as the full-time students, and furthermore they have opted to keep their current jobs as a fall-back in case they do not get an internship. I see this as akin to cheating which alone makes this type of student a poor hiring prospect, in my opinion. Additionally, they're generally far less polished than the full-time students and have a less impressive background. So yeah - if you're looking to switch careers you are much better off going full time. If you want to stay in your current industry and maybe look for a different corporate, 9-5 type gig after graduation, then go part time. But don't go part time expecting to have the same career prospects as the full-time students. While I have seen the occasional part-timer get a BB banking internship, it's very uncommon. And the full-time students and the recruiters will look down on you.
I'm at Booth full time. What is your objective? To stay or to leave? It's unclear.
If you are trying to swap to IM or BB than 100% go full time. The OCR is not nearly as powerful PT. IM in particular is very hard to recruit part time. My friends recruiting for IM fulltime put in 10-30 hours a week on stock pitches and competitions. These are a huge boost in the recruiting process. You won't have the time to do this properly part time. Some of them also travel regularly to meet with funds in other cities. Also hard to do while working.
Banking is a no brainer. Full time Booth is a massive feeder to IB. Part time you're taking a big risk that firms won't talk to you.
part time students are not allowed to show up at OCR internship events but the school can't set rules around events that take place off campus. so by showing up at the off campus OCR internship events, the part time students are simply taking advantage of a loophole in school rules. The school doesn't condone them being there. I don't perceive them as a "threat", I just find them showing up at the internship recruiting events to be incredibly annoying, as does every other one of my classmates that I've talked to about this. The full time students go through a much tougher admissions process, quit their jobs without having another lined up, often move across the country or even across the world to attend, take out $150k+ of debt and forgo two years of earnings ... None of which the part timers do. there is a higher opportunity cost and level of risk for the full-time students so it makes sense that we would expect (and have) way better career services. If part time students can do absolutely none of the things I listed and still expect to recruit for the same jobs just as successfully as the full-timers, then why would anybody go full-time? Its like asking, why would anyone pay for a Mercedes if they can pay for a Kia but still drive the Mercedes off the lot? I do think the decision to go part-time is totally respectable, but if you want all the benefits of the full time program (including career services for internships), don't expect to get them in the part time program, that's all.
Why one of the most ignorant statements I've read so far. Reason? Booth is one of the most overrated schools out there. Booth is one of the easiest schools to get in to. They have 4 MBA programs! Almost everyone gets into Booth one way or another. Nobody even knows the difference once they finish. Harvard, Stanford are the only true hard to get into MBA programs. Booth, LOL.
@Nico-Skeba, what are you even talking about? You went to Western Michigan University, run a digital marketing company with no employees, and don't have an MBA. Stop being a poser...
I agree with a lot of what anonymous says. I think Kellogg has the right attitude that if you have a job change your application should be looked at holistically to see if you can switch to the full time program. then the risk and skin in the game is the same. Booth does not allow this currently. As far as your Mercedes/Kia argument the problem with that is that you are paying for a Mercedes and getting a Kia. if the tuition was different I'ld see your point. The big winners here are the administration raking in the $$$.
I'm currently a part-time student at Booth and stumbled across this thread while looking for some OCR information. I'm having a lot trouble understanding why an employer would prefer a full-time student over a part-time student? I guess I understand that the full time program typically has a gmat score ~5% higher than the part-time program but that is where the obvious attractiveness stops for me. I work 50+ hours a week at a prestigious Chicago company (been promoted since starting the program), have a infant and family at home all while juggling 6 hours of class a week plus another 10+ hours outside of school doing homework, group work, etc. I mean this in the most sincere way possible, how could the above possibly serve as a negative when being compared to a full-timer?
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