Engineering to Consulting - Should I Bother?
Hi y'all,
First of all, a little background: I'm an MS student in engineering at a target school (Stanford). My prior expertise has been almost all research with some industry engineering (intern with GE Aviation) mixed in. Research has been getting awfully tedious and specific lately, and consulting seems like an interesting and diverse area to work in. HOWEVER, I have pretty much zero business/consulting experience, which I would think places me at a pretty large disadvantage compared to the other candidates. I do have pretty stellar grades: 3.89 now, 3.98 undergrad in engr, math, and statistics (not at Stanford though).
The consulting bug's bitten me pretty hard and I'm prepared to work my ass off over the summer (not interning due to research commitment for a fellowship) prepping for case interviews. But before I go into full consulting mode, I'd like to know if the top firms will even give me a chance for first round for fall recruiting. Hopefully if I can land that then a summer of case prep will be enough to take me rest of the way.
Thanks guys!
MBB doesn't care about what you study, only where you study. This is why you see students at top Law/Med Schools get recruited. If you're at Stanford, you've got nothing to worry about. Just make sure to be know your technicals cold, and you'll be golden.
Yeah most top consulting firms do consider students with engineering profiles at target schools. But the major disadvantage is that you will still get into undergrad analyst level roles and not the MBA level associate roles, so its like your masters has not much value. Also apart from cases, work on experience/personal part of the interview as well. All the Best!
Thanks for the input. I did figure that I'd be competing for the entry-level positions. However, I saw that some companies had separate "advanced degree" recruiting. Is that mainly reserved for PhDs or would an MS be considered for that as well?
Hi, I will give a little bit about myself, I am currently doing Masters in Engineering at MIT, with undergrad in mechanical engineering. I interviewed with McKinsey and Bain couple of weeks back for the undergrad positions. I was told by the recruiters that I was not eligible for Advanced Degree positions since they were meant for PhDs etc. MS graduating after 2008 were not considered for associate level positions at McKinsey and were only directed towards business analyst positions.
Your situation sounds an awful lot like mine, I'm actually a mechanical engineer as well. It's disappointing that our MS degrees don't seem to count for much, other than maybe giving a slight edge over the undergrads. Sounds like you're well on your way in the recruiting process though, so good luck to you! Just out of curiosity, are you a recent convert to consulting as well, or were you always interested in the industry?
So are you currently in ME MS at Stanford? I started there in ME MS as well, although I switched over to MS&E after two quarters. My undergraduate degree was in ME, too.
As for the advanced degree recruiting, I actually interviewed at McK (along with a few more buddies) for that role because all my buddies and I had about 2 years of experience working in the industry. I got past the initial screening test / interview, but I didn't make it past the 2nd round interviews. This was back in 2010.
Yeah, I'm doing my MS in ME right now. I've given some thought about MS&E, but since I'm funded by the ME department on a fellowship, I figured I'd at least finish this (free) degree. I came straight from undergrad, so I guess advanced degree recruiting is out of the picture. If you don't mind me asking, where did you end up working?
I did try for BA positions at consulting firms after my undergrad and McKinsey dinged me after 6 rounds of interview :(. I did have some interest to continue for a Masters, which I thought would give me an edge in engineering while giving me an opportunity to still pursue consulting or other sectors as an option if I needed to (I work closely to the Operations Research and Operations Management area).
Boilermaker, just for future reference, an MS is not really an advanced degree in the first place. MD/JD/Ph.D are advanced degrees. BA/BS/MS are entry level degrees. This is why people start out as analysts in IBD despite having an MSF.
Hey Boilermaker, I ended up getting into an advisory practice for one of the Big 4 companies.
I definitely agree with Leonidas. I was surprised when McK allowed me to interview for the APD
can't agree with leonidas, an MS in engineering from Stanford is not comparable to an MSF or lol a JD...
OP given your profile i think you would be at a big advantage over the field.
Hey all, thanks for your comments. I'm not terribly concerned with which level exactly I would go in as. An analyst's salary might be lower than an MS-level salary at an engineering firm, but I don't plan to continue for my PhD and my impression is that without one an engineer's upward mobility is somewhat limited.
My initial worries were that I would be auto-dinged when compared to all the other Stanford kids, engineering or otherwise, who have been dreaming/preparing for consulting for years. It seems the general consensus is that I still have a shot, which is very encouraging. Time to brush up on my business 101 I guess...
Just a general question, how long have you guys known that you wanted to do consulting? I never knew what consultants actually did until earlier this year, haha, nor did I know that they hired engineers. My ugrad placed well into top engineering (Lockheed Martin etc) but I never heard of anyone doing consulting. Here, it seems if you're not doing a startup then you're going consulting/Ibanking. I feel like such a hick.
I'm in IBD, but got offers from McK and Bain out of undergrad (dinged from BCG). I didn't know much about Consulting until my Junior year, when I attended a McK informational. I was set on Banking, but the McK guy sold me on consulting so well, that I ended up applying anyways.
Don't worry about being a Grad student. I finished my undergrad at an Ivy, and the Grad students were on equal footing with the rest of us, provided that they knew their case studies.
I was in the same situation. I have a BS and MS in engineering and was recruited for (an accepted) a Business Analyst position. My offers from engineering companies were higher than my starting BA salary, however the ability to advance faster, work environment and lifestyle pushed me to consulting.
I second many of the comments made on this board.
Your degree combined with you grades will definitely not put you at a disadvantage. I am with McK, and having screened resumes before I can tell you that I certainly would not skip a Stanford Eng with a 3.9. Also, don't be ashamed of your internships. McK does a ton of ops work, and knowing how a company looks from the inside is VERY valuable.
I am have a BS/MS in engineering and actually worked in R&D for a couple of years before joining McK as a Junior Associate. The norm is to reserve that position for people with an MD/JD/PhD or MS+2/3 years of exp, so you'd likely be considered as a Business Analyst.
I never knew I wanted to do consulting (or what consulting even entailed) until I was about 1 year into my R&D job and prepared for a couple of months, so you've got plenty of time.
engineering to consulting without MBA (Originally Posted: 01/13/2008)
is it possible to get into MBB or other non-IT strategy-focused boutiques (i.e. NOT IBM or Accenture) from a software engineer background? are any firms especially receptive to such applicants? i don't particularly care whether the role is for pre-MBA analyst or post-MBA associate.
assume that the work is at a top IT company, a few years of experience, and strong undergrad at top school.
I dont know what u mean by MBB but if you are talking about management/strategy consulting, it is virtually impossible. If you want to cross over from being a pure technical guy to a business professional, your best bet it to do business development at an IT firm(again difficult but not impossible). This will increase your odds of exiting the IT industry all together for a non-IT consulting firm. Even better - do an MBA.
By MBB, I mean McKinsey/Bain/BCG.
Are you recommending this from experience? Do you know anybody who's actually transitioned from IT firm to consulting by doing bizdev?
Well, as the saying goes it's like doing open heart surgery with a hacksaw- it's possible but why make it so hard on yourself? Strategy firms hire hundreds of MBAs every year, the number of people who come in like you want to, probably number in the single digits. Even then, they will 99% of the time be in the IT group anyway... there are numerous reasons why they prefer MBAs but I'm not going to get into those.
getting hired into MBB as an experienced hire from the tech industry is near impossible. Even if you're really good, most likely you'd be hired as a "specialist" and who knows what kind of advancement/career path that leads to. The only person I know, experienced hire from tech industry into McK as a actual consultant (can't remember his level, maybe associate) went like this:
Top undergrad (international)
Stanford computer science masters
Engineer and some top tech firm (I think Siebel?)
Harvard Business School MBA
Marketing Manager at Microsoft
McKinsey
So yes, MBA is still required...
engineering to consulting? (Originally Posted: 07/16/2009)
Hi Everyone,
I'm new to this forum and I could use your advice. I am graduating this year from a big ten school with an undergrad and grad degree in engineering. I want to enter tech/operations/strat consulting. My stats are as follows:
grad GPA: 3.6 undergrad: 3.0
business operations internship at a large engineering firm 2 summers of research experience president of a national student organization
I know I am not at a target for MBB. I am trying for Accenture, Deloitte and some local boutiques such as West Monroe Partners, ZS Associates, Protiviti, Huron etc.
The main reason I decided to get my M.S. was to boost my undergrad GPA to attract more job offers.
My biggest fear is consulting firms will deem me "too technical" - any suggestions on how to distinguish myself (aside from my business internship, and about 4-5 business classes I have taken)?
Anyone here go from engineering to consulting?
Based on my stats, what are my chances at obtaining an interview with those firms?
Any other firms you would recommend for someone in my situation?
Thanks everyone!
you are perfectly fine
just network a lot
i personally know more engineers at Accenture and ZS Associates than non engineers
Had similar background (BS/MS in Engineering from state school;, couple of internships, other stuff, not 3.9 GPA). Was able to get into a firm similar to what you are looking into thru on campus recruiting. Made sure the recruiter knew I don't want to be in the IT side.
Want to break into consulting from engineering (Originally Posted: 01/24/2012)
Hey guys,
I'm about to hit the 2 year mark at my engineering firm after grad school that's pretty unrelated to consulting. We do catastrophe modeling and analysis(hurricanes, earthquakes, floods) for clients. Is 2 years too late to go into consulting? How many years is too much???
I'm quickly realizing that I'd rather do consulting for Deloitte or Accenture or some other big firm based on talking to my friends who work there. Given that my experience is unrelated, any chance I can get a job at one of these firms? Even if it's entry level? I'd actually prefer to start off at the analyst level and take a paycut to get my feet wet (and avoid the competition given my unrelated experience).
Stats:
Currently make 85k with 12k retirement (96k total compensation - I know I'd get around 65ish k base in consulting, but I don't care as my current job sucks)
Graduated with engineering degree with honors from semi-target private ugrad with a 3.6 (top 12-15 school in US News)
Graduated with master's degree from target (MIT/Stanford level) with a 3.7.
How do I break in? I'm thinking of applying through websites and studying my ass off with case interviews. I hear Accenture analyst interviews are pure behaviorial...any others? Any shot? I'm desperate for advice.
your best bet is to work 1-2 more years at your job and going for top 10 mba. then, you will get plenty of interviews from consulting firms via OCR and you will come in as an associate after mba.
also, it's quite hard to score consulting interviews once you're out of school. if you don't want to pursue mba, try to get your friends help you get interviews
Don't listen to SLE, engineers transferring careers into consulting after a few years is somewhat common. I've worked with a number of pre-mba consultants or analysts that decided after a year or two they no longer wanted to be an engineer.
Your best bet would probably be to talk with your friends at Deloitte and Accenture and see if they can do anything for you. Even if they just pass you along to a more senior member of the firm, meeting with him/her will go a long way towards getting you in for an interview. Cold calling HR or getting referred to the entry level analyst recruiter also could be very helpful.
This transition is extremely plausible if you work for it. That being said, if you feel you could get into an MBA program that these companies recruit from after 1-2 more years of putting up with your job that would probably be the smoothest transition.
That's encouraging. I will definitely start applying through the websites at least. I definitely don't want to stay in my current job or pursue an MBA for the time being. Any other tips and advice? What was the upperbound for work experience for these engineers that you know who've transitioned from an unrelated field?
I will also start reaching out to friends at some of these consulting firms. It's a little embarassing asking them to refer me to analyst positions they started out doing as fresh undergrads 4 years ago, but oh well.
thanks, that's exactly what i said.
Another thought I had was to go back to school and get one of those BS master's in engineering management degrees from MIT, Dartmouth, or Duke:
http://sdm.mit.edu/
It sounds like a lot of money for a degree that's not that reputable in my opinion, but it does seem like another way into consulting for a quarter of the price of an MBA? Any thoughts on this. I'm still miffed at the fact that it's harder for me to get hired now as an entry level analyst vs a fresh grad. Hopefully, I don't get lumped in with the experienced consultants when I do apply.
Apply for IBM. 60% ish of my incoming class for strategy consulting are engineers.
Coming to consulting from en engineering background (Originally Posted: 03/03/2013)
Hello all,
I am currently preparing in order to apply for a summer internship position at MBB. I am currently studying engineering in electromechanics but when it comes to case practice, it is obvious that I lack insight in economics. I can be strong at numbers and structure, but when it comes to "oh, I see this, IT MUST MEAN THAT ..." I am really disappointed (I can't pass the 'it must mean that" state).
It can be really obvious for someone having an economic background, but for an engineer, it isn't. So ma question is : do you have some good reference or book for basic insight into economics, markets,... ? Not just a reference talking about how to compute financial numbers (I can already do this), but extract the signification and breaking into pieces the mechanisms of a market.
Thanks a lot for your help, D_Analytics
The key is to read the financial/business press (Google News/Finance, Wall Street Journal, Economist) so that you have a grasp of the issues businesses face and approaches to solving them. Unfortunately, this is somewhat of a long-term process so might not be extremely helpful for an impending interview.
The only alternative I can think of is to do so many cases that you identify most of the significant variations and can effectively "fake" the broad business exposure.
Good Luck.
The book "Case in Point" is the main source of wisdom among us aspiring consultants. Are you in the UK. McK recruiting has long ended in the US, at least at my school.
Thanks, Dazedmonk. It is a really good advice and I am immediately beginning to read those. Thanks, Jnaz. I haven't read Case in Point already. I already browsed and read several sources on Case Interviews. All were really useful for solving the case itself with structure, but none did really help me get this insight. Hope "Case in Point" will do. I am in Western Europe, but not in the UK. :)
Just do a lot of practice cases and you will learn how to think about things from a case perspective. The method of memorizing frameworks used in Case in Point is garbage. Find a human and do live case practice.
To be more specific about WSJ, read Marketplace (Section B).
Full time consulting opportunities from chemical engineering background (Originally Posted: 04/09/2013)
Hey fellas,
I have a close friend (college junior) who recently attended a consulting event in DC. She's become very interested in pursuing a career in consulting after doing some more research. However, as both a junior who already has an internship lined up for the summer, and a student from an engineering background, she is wondering whether or not she would stand a good chance at landing a full time offer at a consulting firm in their New York office.
Could anybody advise as to the likelihood of her getting into one of the top firms, given her following credentials (and the fact that she's willing to work hard, network, and prepare for cases and the like)?
Major: Chemical Engineering (strong ChE program) School: UT Austin GPA: 3.75/4.00 (engineering Work experience: Upcoming chemical engineering internship at a top petroleum/oil/gas company R&D internship at a top consumer goods firm (PepsiCo, Kellogg's, Coca-Cola, Kimberly-Clark.) Previous research internship at a top 20 medical school Extracurriculars: multiple engineering honor societies, TA positions, mostly academic
Would firms like MBB/Deloitte/Booz be interested in someone with her background? Is it too late for her to get on the right track to secure a full-time consulting offer, or difficult enough that she should be focusing her efforts on a career path more related to engineering?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
Stay away from DC. That's public consulting. You/she don't want to be there.
Serious question: why choose chem over petro at UT?
Whoops, double post. My apologies.
She definitely has a shot at firms like Deloitte/Booz/PwC and it is not too late to get on their radar. Unlike banks, only 30-50% of analyst classes at consulting firms are made up of the previous summer's interns, meaning that they hire a significant number of analysts for full time positions each year. Like banks, consulting firms recruit in the fall, and a decent number of them should have OCR at UT-Austin (I'm almost positive that PwC and Deloitte S&O do).
I would advise her to start attending company info. sessions, reaching out to alumni, and attending any networking events hosted by the firms she's interested in. Consulting is just as (if not more) networking heavy/dependent as banking, so definitely get started now.
It's also very important for my friend to land a position in one of these firms' New York office. Coming from a regional school like Austin, do you think that it's reasonably possible to land a spot in New York? I know a few friends from UT Austin who are doing consulting/business analyst positions at firms like McKinsey and Bain, but it seems like they've all placed regionally (Dallas, Houston, etc.).
She has a decent chance at 2nd tier firms. Her credentials are good enough even for MBB if her school is a target (a big if, and I don't know the answer) and if she networks.
But breaking into NYC office is going to be tough. Firms tell you that you shouldn't think about such things when you're picking the offices you apply to, but it does make a difference. NYC and SFO offices (at least at my firm) are quite a bit more competitive than the other offices because everybody wants to live in those cities (apparently--I personally don't see the appeal).
Plus, for NYC, your friend will have to compete with a large number of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Wharton, Columbia and even some Stanford kids.
So unless your friend is absolutely set on going to NYC, I'd strongly advise him/her to consider Houston and Atlanta offices. My guess is that that'll give them a better chance if getting an offer.
^Pretty much spot on. It's definitely possible to go to NYC or another big office from Austin, but will require good networking with alumni and professionals in those offices. However, it's important to consider that choosing a city like NYC changes who her competitors will be and thus may make landing a spot much harder.
If you don't mind me asking, why does she have to be in the NYC office? If there isn't a reason other than the fact that it's NYC (which may be reason enough depending on your point of view...), she should definitely consider Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, LA/SF, etc. If you're working at Deloitte/Booz/MBB, you're going to be traveling M - Th anyways and it's pretty easy to get staffed on national projects and projects in cities you want to work in. I know a girl in my office (West Coast) who loves the East Coast and flies to and from Boston every week. It's not ideal, but she definitely pockets a lot more (lower taxes and COL as opposed to Boston/NYC) and is exposed to the same work and people as the consultants working on her project based in Boston.
Thanks again, guys.
I'd rather not disclose why she has to be in NYC, but suffice it to say that she has some really good reasons that go far beyond just wanting to be in the city. I definitely agree that location is less important in consulting than it is in banking, but this is unfortunately a consideration that she has little flexibility on.
Given that breaking into New York consulting is an option for her if she works hard and networks, is networking in the realm of consulting similar to banking? For example, my networking process (for banking) was:
1) Find alumni in alumni database / LinkedIn 2) Reach out through email, ask for a time to speak 3) Have a good conversation, establish connection 4) Ask for recommendations on other individuals to speak to 5) Repeat 1-4
How much time does she have to network? Does full-time consulting recruiting normally take place at the beginning of the academic year for seniors?
It sounds like your close friend is yourself :)
My background is very similar: ChE, junior summer in petrochem, sophomore summer in consumer goods R&D. I will be starting at a MBB firm soon, so it's definitely possible! UT is a target for consulting, so just find a way to sneak into the events for business students (although it should be open to engineers as well). I just applied online to the MBB firms with no networking whatsoever and got interviews at 2/3, so it's really not that difficult if you have a strong background.
You (or your friend) can message me directly for more information or advice.
Oh and she will likely receive a return offer from her upcoming internship, so she won't have to worry too much about searching for a traditional engineering career. That said, she should do her best to perform at the highest level during the summer because it really is a great learning experience.
Help! New grad to boutique consulting or lower F500 engineering? (Originally Posted: 11/02/2014)
Hello Everyone!
I am a senior at a target school in engineering with 3.9 GPA, good extracurriculars, scholarships, and engineering internship experience. Unfortunately, I've made some key mistakes during Fall recruiting (not enough case-study prep, engineering-tailored resume) and only manage to secure a small, no-name (under 50 employees) boutique consulting firm. This firm does have multiple established (F500 top 100) clients and can move up very quickly (manager/team leader level in 3-4years). However, my goal is top 10 consulting (hopefully MBB) in the future.
I do have offers for engineering jobs in the lower F500 (think Bombardier). They are not as prestigious as Google or Microsoft, but the name is easily recognized in the engineering community. However, their promotional ladder is very structured (start as a engineer-in-training for 2-3 years) and more difficult to move up to a leadership position very quickly.
I was wondering which path would be the best for me to breaking into top consulting firms. I know with the engineering route I would have to take my MBA later on. I know breaking into top MBA as an engineer is much easier than as a consultant (even though I have the ability to demonstrate more leadership/impact in the consulting firm than the engineering one). On the other hand, the boutique consulting path will allow me to get relevant experience very quickly. However, I don't know the ease of breaking into top consulting with a no-name consulting brand.
I would like advise on which route to take (or other routes that can lead to the same result). Again, my ultimate goal is to break into top-tier consulting, and my secondary goal is to secure a top 10 MBA and maybe break into finance.
Thank you very much for your help.
Frankly, I think that if your long-term goal is to break into MBB, that LIKELY reflects a lack of maturity on your part. That's fine; you are just leaving university and you aren't a mature professional.
The reality is that even at MBB, most people who take jobs at the BA level are ready to leave after 2-3 years. Let's say that you go with the engineering firm. Your best case scenario is 2-3 years in Engineering, then 2 years of B-school, then MBB. At that point, it will be ~5 years and you will be ~27. If you are 22 now, imagine yourself at age 17. People change.
If you join the consulting firm and you LOVE it, you might be able to go to MBB directly with the right networking. Or here are a few other things that could happen: - You realize you don't want to be a consultant, you want to actually execute - A great role opens up at one of your clients - You realize that F500 work (consulting or full-time) is often bureaucratic and boring, so you join a small and fast-growing company - You decide to be your own boss and start a business - You realize you'd have more fun and be more respected as an Engineer. You go to a F500 engineering program or similar.
TL;DR: Don't overplan. If you want to be a consultant, go be a consultant, then figure things out.
Incoming Engineering Senior looking to get into consulting (Originally Posted: 09/15/2015)
Hi everyone,
Come October I will be a UG senior in Chemical Engineering at a top 20 school. After an engineering internship which I did not enjoy too much I did quite some research into other industries and I think consulting looks like something I'll really enjoy. I recently started studying both Case In Point and Victor Changs consulting interview Secrets book, but I wanted to know what are some tips you guys have for once recruiting starts at my school? I have a lot of solid ECA's (President/Vice President of 2 clubs, started a new organization, etc) but my only worry is my GPA, which is at a 3.2 right now. I realize MBB is out of reach (though I'll still give it a shot anyway) but I was hoping you guys could give me some tips on how I can really makeup for the low GPA. I had contacted a Deloitte recruiter last year when I was just shopping and he had said "Your resume looks good, but you need a really good reason for why your GPA is well under our minimum." - What's the best way to respond if I get that again? Thanks so much!
I was in a slightly worse situation than you last year. I was Mechanical Engineering at a top 50, didn't bump up to a 3.2 until second semester, and much more mediocre EC's.
You can bullshit some response to the GPA question but in reality the reason you "only" have a 3.2 is because you're in one of the most difficult academic majors in the world and the barely passed poly sci recruiters (they're usually not actual consultants) don't really understand this.
When I was going thru recruitment I saw Deloitte had increased their minimum from 3.2 to 3.4 and didn't even bother speaking to them. Deloitte is definitely a great firm to work for however if I were you I'd look at the other big 4 + Accenture firms that are recruiting at your school. From what I've seen they have lower GPA minimums. Unfortunately the minimum is usually truly a minimum and they'll filter you out if you don't meet it. The only plus that Deloitte has is slightly more prestige (apparently?). People on this site jerk off to what rank/tier the internet tells them that their firm is but don't let that force you to focus only on Deloitte/MBB. You will get paid a similar (very comfortable for out of UG) amount and work on similar projects in any big 4 + Accenture firm.
The engineering GPA is definitely a setback when applying for consulting jobs but keep in mind that you have skills that those with easier majors don't have. Highlight your quantitative and analytical experience as well as team experience, especially if you led the team (or thought you did). If you want you can try and boost your GPA this first semester senior year by minoring or taking classes in something in Business/Econ. It will definitely look good during recruitment and will actually help you on the job more than any hard engineering knowledge. You can easily crush a business/econ course as they are extremely easy coming from an engineering background. I barely got to a 3.0 in my engineering courses but had a 4.0 in econ which helped A LOT in boosting my GPA. Also it's usually pretty hard or impossible to get this information before graduating but if you could find what percentile ranking you are within your major that will definitely go a long way.
It might get frustrating coming from an engineering background and finding that no one gives a shit that it's much more difficult and GPAs are generally much lower but hang in there and you'll be fine. You're in a much better place than I was last year and I ended up accepting an offer at another Big 4 firm.
Engineer trying to break into Consulting - Any advice? (Originally Posted: 09/30/2015)
Currently working as an engineer at a F100 company, but trying to break into consulting. I graduated from a Top 50 university with a Mech Eng degree, 3.4 GPA, and had a lot of solid EC's (leadership roles as well). I also won 2 awards at my current job within the 8 short months I've been here. But I'm finding this engineering/technical work to be mundane and really trying to get out of it and trying to get into corp devp/ consulting. Given my non-business background I was told my only option is an MBA. I could try applying through the company' websites but without an OCR I have pretty much slim to no chance of getting an interview from any of the consulting firms.
Is an MBA really my only option? Any current or former consulting recruiters here or folks that are involved with the recruiting process have any advice on what I can do to land a consulting job now instead of spending 2 years & tons of money to pursue an MBA just to land a consulting job?
Dhman, based on your GPA, an MBA is the option with the highest likelihood for success, though there is a chance you could break into the industry prior by networking with the firms you're interested in. Reach out to friends in consulting, friends of friends, your undergrad career team, and friends that may be clients on consultants. Any of these contacts can make an introduction, which will likely lead to at least a phone interview. The online application process is must less likely to yield any results. Good luck!
As an engineer who went into consulting, I can give you my superficial read based on the info provided.
Your background suggests more a business process consulting path like PwC, IBM, etc. - Industrial Engineering being seen as likely a good grounding in terms of process and organization. Not sure about IT background requirements and how they apply. I haven't worked in that area so have only an outside-in perspective.
In MBB without a high-powered PhD/MD/JD, it is difficult to break into the post-MBA level, and you'd be competing with 4.0 GPA Ivy-league types for business analyst positions In interviews conducted by other 4.0 GPA Ivy-league types.
I can see you moving into consulting at a Tier 2 or Big 4 firm, probably in an operations/process type role.
The only way I see you going to MBB if you're interested in that is going to get your MBA at a top program. And even though I have limited info on your profile it looks like you may have a shot at a Top 10 school.
Agree with the comments above. You will probably be considered for the post-Bachelors position, and not for the post-MBA position.
In terms of getting into an MBB, as you know, competition is quite strong for MBAs. It is even more competitive for post-PhD folks, simply because there are so many of them applying for few spots. However, I think competition is toughest for post-Bachelors. These kids (I'm 30, so I can call them kids) are exceptionally sharp and accomplished. Compared to that pool, the 3.1 GPA will be quite a red flag, to be very honest.
I would recommend doing a great job at your current company, doing an MBA, and then applying.
I went to a no name state school with a sub 3.0 undergrad GPA. I was an engineer in aerospace for a while.
Accepted to M7, then took a job at MBB, and I've been a consultant for 3-4 years now post MBA.
It's probably your best bet -- focus on M7 MBA to get into consulting. Nail the GMAT (750+), get some cool non-work experiences. I mentored a club for 3 years at a local high school with some cool stories. I also worked at a startup in my spare time and spun the "entrepreneur" angle when applying. It was a 2 person startup, and we were income/cash positive.
Shake your tail feather, hustle, and put together a good application. If you're smart/determined enough, you'll get in and the rest will fall in place. If you're not, you won't.
p.s. i wouldn't be a consultant at IBM/Accenture/PwC technology/whatever. All of the shitty parts of MBB (travel, client service) but none of the good parts (slower promotion, lower pay except entry, tighter expense policies, less interesting/high level work). Honestly I don't see how tech consulting is worth it.
Engineering Undergrad for MBB (Originally Posted: 11/03/2007)
I know that MBB tends to like undergrads who major in engineering (I guess because it shows the ability to do problem solving..etc) but I have a couple of questions about that:
Does the type of engineering (EE, ChemE, MechE, BioE,...etc)play a significant role? For example, if there are two candidates who are totally the same (4.0 GPA, ECs, recs, everything), but their only different is their type of engineering, who would more likely get an interview?
I know that top engineering schools (MIT, Caltech, Stanford, UCB) are well-recuited, but how difficult would it be to get an interview for MBB if I went to a good, but not great (like top 15 like Purdue, or UT-Austin caliber) engineering school? I ask this because I'm considering applying for a transfer to a top school, even though it might cost about $75k more for me.
If I went to a top college (Harvard, UPenn) and I didn't major in engineering, would it substantially hurt my chances at getting an interview at MBB, compared to top engineering schools?
Thanks for all the info.
School is more important than major. I don't think type of engineering matters, but going to a top 15 engineering school like Purdue is not a great idea. Go to a good school first (Ivy, Stanford, MIT, etc.), then major in engineering.
Let's put it this way: It's better to go to Dartmouth engineering (weak program) than a school like even Georgia Tech, even though the latter by far has a better engineering program. It's about overall school prestige because generally they attract smarter students. Also, it doesn't matter what type of engineering. Industrial and Operations sounds the most relevant (at least at Michigan they have financial engineering courses within the IOE major). Remember that engineering definitely has a hierarchy of difficulty, so you might want to take that into account as well.
As I just said in an earlier post, it depends on your performance. Quality of engineering program is definitely factored into the hiring decision. If you can get into a better school and still be at the top of your class, then go for it.
Being top at a relatively lesser school (but don't push it - the schools you mentioned are on the low end of the core school recruiting) is better than being middle of the pack at MIT. As long as M/B/B recruits at your school, being in a strong program and getting high grades, as well as having strong leadership and test scores, you'll get looked at.
I've seen people shoot themselves in the foot transferring to a top school and then underperforming.
Good luck
As I just said in an earlier post, it depends on your performance. Quality of engineering program is definitely factored into the hiring decision. If you can get into a better school and still be at the top of your class, then go for it.
Being top at a relatively lesser school (but don't push it - the schools you mentioned are on the low end of the core school recruiting) is better than being middle of the pack at MIT. As long as M/B/B recruits at your school, being in a strong program and getting high grades, as well as having strong leadership and test scores, you'll get looked at.
I've seen people shoot themselves in the foot transferring to a top school and then underperforming.
Good luck
Engineer to management consulting (Originally Posted: 11/11/2016)
Hi,
I'll try and keep this simple. I'm an engineer who has quite literally just joined the working world. Currently working with a global, prestigious, automotive OEM with turnover well into several billion dollars.
For a number of reasons (too many to list) I have recently decided that I would like to tailor my career towards MC Strategy or Operations, develop myself with the current employer and move as an experienced hire on par with MBA recruits. I have an MEng in Mechanical & Electrical Engineering with distinction from a top 15 UK engineering school.
I am lucky that I'm able to complete placements across the business during my graduate scheme with the potential to transfer to any permanent role. The company is going through massive strategic/operational changes and in general improvement across every business area. Transfer to a relevant department at this stage would give unparalleled exposure to strategy and operations for someone with my level of experience.
I guess my question is which area would most interest a big 4 MC firm (big 3 most probably out of reach?): The strategy teams (corporate, engineering etc.) or the internal consulting department, who undertake both S&O activities? Some may point to the obvious but I have been informed that internal consulting may not be the best stepping stone into external.
Thoughts?
Hi :) So i've gone through the grueling consulting rounds in London and have come out with several offers from top consulting firms:
a top 15 school isn't enough. If you're sure you want this (MBB offer) then go to Oxbridge and do a 1 year masters in something that will also give you time to prep.
big 4 is much easier to get into over their elite strategy divisions (ex. PwC over Strategy& or Deloitte over Monitor); try the easier less competitive route and then try transfer internally.
Chance at MBB Full Time from Target School as Engineer (Originally Posted: 08/06/2014)
Hi all,
I'm an Electrical Engineering major from a target school with a 3.5-3.6 GPA as a rising senior. I have a decent array of extracurriculars and a 2350 SAT score from high school. I've done engineering/technology related internships each summer, including junior year. I was wondering if I had a decent chance at attaining a MBB consulting position since I'm interested and what my next steps should be in maximizing my chances.
Thanks!
The GPA is a little low, but I'm not sure it would rule you out completely. If you don't mind me asking, is it a public or private school, and in what region? (I went to school for engineering as well so I'm always curious)
If you had a 3.5-3.6 in Electrical Engineering at my school (UMich), you'd be in the top 10% of your class
It's a private school (Ivy/Ivy Level). I think a 3.5 in Engineering is equivalent to like a 3.8 in Economics at my school. I do think the sheer importance of GPA to consulting is a bit off putting. If I knew I would go into consulting, I would have easily pulled a 3.8+ in another major. I'm not trying to make excuses at this point but rather trying to maximize my chances. What should I do to make up for the "slightly low" GPA?
I definitely understand how GPAs vary across majors. Unfortunately, from my experience (going through the recruiting process and now being a school rep for an MBB office), the GPA expectation is not usually lowered just because someone is an engineering major. However, networking is always a good idea and can help make up for any parts of your application that might be considered substandard.
So hypothetically a candidate with a 3.9 majoring in communications would be looked upon in better light than a candidate with a 3.4 majoring in engineering? I wish strict GPA numbers weren't so important in this whole process but from everyone I've spoke to it clearly is.
Yes, but other factors are considered as well. MBB won't just grant an interview to any communications major with a 3.9 GPA. Quantitative skills are important, so SAT (or other test) scores are considered, especially the math portion. So, someone who sucks at math won't be given an interview. It also helps for those liberal arts majors to take quantitative-heavy classes on the side.
What exactly does Consulting Networking entail? Just speaking with representatives at campus events and following up with them?
I don't really understand that logic though. How can they seriously think a 3.9 history major is better than a 3.5 engineer? The engineer literally has to put in like 5 times more work to get that. Regardless, I'll put my best foot forward.
@NoName I can.
MBB isn't interested in how much time you put in to your GPA. (By the way, it's not a cake walk getting a 3.9 in any major at a top school.) They care about bringing people who are one of the best in each field; at the same time, they want people from diverse backgrounds because they bring different strengths to the table. (For example, writing is extremely important in consulting, and 3.9 history majors excel at that. 3.9 engineering majors usually are really bad at it.)
So, what they're doing is taking the engineering majors, history majors, business majors, etc. And I'm glad they do, because I love the fact that my firm hires people from different backgrounds--it makes it a much more interesting place to work.
Finally, I'd like to remind you that there are often more than enough engineers with 3.7+ GPA to fill ALL the slots if MBB wanted to. As such, favoring engineers over all other majors wouldn't help you out anyway. So keep your snobby attitude to yourself and work on doing some damage control by networking, etc.
I can't justify MBB screening criteria... sorry bud!
Yes, networking definitely includes speaking with the representatives and following up with them. Even better, find someone at MBB not directly involved with recruiting and get them on your side, so they can put in a good word for you to the recruiting team. Knowing someone else in MBB looks better than just having spoken with the recruiting team, because literally everyone has an opportunity to speak with the recruiting team.
Alright asshole, thanks for the great advice!
And that claim is utter bullshit. All entry analysts do the same type of work from what I've seen from friends that went into MBB. There's nothing a history major can do that I can't do other than recite obscure facts from 300 years ago. I'm sure there are plenty of bright engineers with higher GPA's than me but I'm certain I have things that they don't. I'll network well alright, don't you worry about that.
I'm the asshole after your condescending post about how engineering majors are so much better than history majors?
And you're still not understanding what I was saying, so let me clarify. BA's/A's/AC's do similar work, but each person brings different strengths and weakness to the team. History majors don't just learn how to recite obscure facts--they learn how to write concise, effective papers arguing a point. And communicating clearly--whether it's for internal e-mails, decks, whatever--is critical in consulting. In fact, it's one of the key skillset they track. And, given their backgrounds, an average history major BA/A/AC is better in this area than an engineering major BA/A/AC.
Enigneers, on the other hand, are taught how to solve problems/do rigorous analytics. That's also a key skillset an entry level consultant is asked to develop. So an average engineering major is better in this area than a history major BA/A/AC.
Again, that's why MBB look for people from diverse backgrounds. It's not just some bullshit phrase they come up with for their brochures.
You can think whatever you want about the screening criteria. But the MBB recruiting process is quite a robust one, and one that the firms spend quite a lot of time and resource thinking about and improving. (That's not to say it's perfect, but it's pretty good.) So there's a reason to why they do it in a certain way, and you don't get to just dismiss it because it doesn't help your case.
I'd like to say two things here:
1.) Even though I graduated from engineering with a 4.0, I definitely respect history majors for their ability to compile tons of qualitative information and synthesize/write huge papers. That skill is not at all required to do well in engineering, but is required to do well in consulting.
2.) I agree with @"pnb2002" that there are definitely many, many engineering students with high GPAs. The honor society for my particular major had a requirement of being in the top 20% of students in the department, and the cutoff was a GPA of about 3.85.
So, network for sure!
@"cloudten" I'm not sure where the name-calling comes from. @"pnb2002" is telling it like it is.
Anecdotally, I know more BA/A/AC's who majored in engineering or biz/econ than liberal arts, but don't know whether that points to quality of candidates or self-selection for consulting.
A few other thoughts: - "Ivy level": No idea what this means. Either the school is in that particular athletic conference or it isn't. This designation is especially nonsensical in the context of engineering schools, since Cornell is the only Ivy renowned for engineering. - Public/private: In the context of engineering schools, it's just not that important. The top-10/20/xx are split pretty evenly.
Anyways, there is good advice in this thread. Your GPA is solid and your test scores are great. Focus the next few weeks on 4 things: - Resume: Get it perfect. Have it torn apart by WSO, peers, and especially your MBB friends. - Cover letter: Draft a great one now so all you have to do is tailor to each firm later. - Networking: Reach out to warm contacts (i.e. MBB friends and friends of friends). Lots of good advice on WSO on what to ask and how to build the relationship. - Story: Start high-level and build towards increasing levels of detail. 1) Elevator pitch / 90 sec. resume walkthrough 2) Why consulting? Why you?
With those out of the way, you can focus on OCR when school starts. - Networking: Quality over quantity. You need 1-2 people at each firm who could picture you working on their team. There's downside risk to trying to meet everyone. If 3-4 people are mildly positive about you and 1 gets a weird vibe, that probably hurts more than it helps. - Story (cont.): 3) Start drafting your interview stories. Write them down, practice them live. Check out my primer here: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/fitbehavioral-interviews-a-crash-… - Case prep: No shortage of advice on WSO for this topic.
Good luck.
If you're at an Ivy school you'll have a great network to draw on for landing an MBB position. I wouldn't doubt what the others are saying about how competitive it is and they have given you good advice about how to proceed.
@brj Thanks for the helpful response. I meant that it's a top 10 school but I didn't want to specify which one. Top 10 is clearly a target in my opinion.
@pnb2002 I do apologize for my harsh tone but I would be lying if I said that it didn't bother me the way GPA is looked at. At my school, literally anyone with half a brain can cruise to a 3.8+ in Economics or History if they put in an inkling of motivated effort. In engineering, you have to dedicate every waking hour to hope for a 3.5+. It's that stark of a difference in difficulty in majors at my school. You could say why I didn't study something else but consulting wasn't on my mind as an 18 year old entering college. I always thought of myself as a quantitative guy so I thought I'd give it a shot to keep doors open down the road.
Are there any tips people can provide on case preparation? I've been delving into some of the notable books but I feel like you have to go beyond those to land a job at one of these firms. Also, does doing Consulting related extracurriculars help? I have a friend who runs the Consulting club at my school and he could help me out. Thanks for the help!
Consulting-related extracurriculars help in the sense that they give you lots and lots of practice for case interviews -- they're not necessarily going to help just because they're on your resume.
Your real weakness: narcissistic personality disorder
Perfect for a job in finance or consulting I suppose.
Can we pitch a cross faculty normalized GPA?
MS Engineering Resume for Consulting with good networking and moderate GPA (Originally Posted: 02/24/2012)
Hey guys, I am a MS student in Engineering at a semi target school and was recently rejected by AT Kearney Analytics Group. I am quite sure that the problem is in my resume as the application process through my school does not require cover letters and because I felt that I did well during the info session. Specifically, I was one of the few asking questions and the ATK representative praised me for my good questions, asked for my name and told me that he will remember my name. Hence, I am very sure that my resume came under review. The last time a similar thing happened and I was invited to first rounds with BCG.
Anyway, I believe the problem is because my resume is not good enough. I have a GPA of 3.85 for undergraduate with 2 degrees but only a GPA of 3.62 for my graduate. This could be a factor. I have diverse experiences in sales, logistics and software which I thought would appeal to them according to the infosession. I am also a founder/ President of a club.
I am not sure why my resume is getting dinged by so many companies and this particular situation shook my belief in the importance of networking. Any honest advice and feedback would be greatly appreciated, such as not good enough experiences, GPA, not enough leadership positions etc.
I am attaching my resume here. Please do help as I am very interested in the consulting industry. Thank you for reading!
http://www.razume.com/documents/24535
I think I should add the new version of my resume. I made some changes after my rejection.
http://www.razume.com/documents/24536
Could it be a visa issue?
bump for op
Sorry what is op?
Your resume looks pretty good... by the way of your description it seems as if these invites are coming through OCR? If so, and your networking + resume got an interview with BCG, I wouldn't worry too much about a rejection from ATK's Analytics Group. I'd keep focusing on networking with people in info sessions, alums, people working in nearby offices, friends, etc and practice cases so you can ace any interviews you get.
At competitive schools, there are so many qualified candidates that not everyone who gets offers at MBB even gets interviews at all three -- even with networking.
Thank you ocho for your comments. I have been going to my school career center many times to improve on it. Only some of the invites came through OCR but BCG did not. Actually, I got the BCG first round last year and my graduate GPA was still not shown since it was my first semester. That is why I suspect it to be my low GPA that is the culprit. I am trying to raise it to 3.7 after I graduate but are there anything I could have done to improve my work experience section?
Hey anon56, no its not. The reason is because I checked with my friend who is also on F1 visa but got first rounds. She has the same educational background but chose to leave out her GPAs from the resume. That is why I am considering whether to do that too.
Thanks
why'd you go to GTech?
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