5 Key Points to Landing an SA Internship
So, this is it for me. I accepted an offer and am done with SA recruiting. It definitely is a grueling process, but it pays off in the end with a bit of luck. Just wanted to share my advice from things I have learned throughout the process. By no means do I think I'm an expert or that I know more than the next guy. Just wanted to give back to the site.
Here are the 5 Key points that helped me land the offer:
1) Networking
If I could give one piece of advice, it'd be to set up a call and pick up the damn phone. I thought I had an "in" with the banks where I met someone at an event, got their card, and followed up with a thank you email. I now realize that doing this is simply going through the motions. When résumés are being pulled, no ones going to think "Oh, this kid sent me a great thank you email, he's getting an interview!" The places that I picked up the phone and showed my interest in a group or a firm are largely the ones that I got interviews at. Plus, it is great to be able to say first hand that you spoke to X, Y, and Z, and that they reinforced your interest in the firm.
2) Competition
This is one thing I've really realized. Who you're up against needs to be almost overlooked. Use it as a motivator, but don't dwell on it. I can't tell you the amount of times I thought "Oh shit, I have a 3.8 and I know this kid has a 3.9 and a sibling at the firm." Forget about it. You can only control how well you network and interview. The more you worry about what other people are doing, the less you can focus on how to prepare yourself.
3) Interviews
So after my first two interviews, I realized after getting some great advice, that I was basically a robot. I had rehearsed my answers so well that I wasn't showing my passions and desire to work in I-Banking. I was reciting an answer that they've probably heard a hundred times. Don't leave your personality at the door, and don't be afraid to show them who you really are. After getting dinged from my first two after the first round, I was either given a final round or an offer from every subsequent interview. The reason is not that I was more prepared. The reason was that I was just as prepared, and way more natural. Making an interview a conversation should be your goal the second you walk into the room or pickup the phone, so talk to the person like you are having a professional conversation with a family friend.
Regarding the technicals, prepare for the ones you can, but realize that there's always going to be one that comes out of left field. It's unacceptable to not know the main valuation methods and some of the other basics. But if you get a dick who asks if you know the average Interest Payments/EBITDA ratio of an energy company, what're you going to do? It's way better to be able to nail the common questions than it is to try to learn every possible oddball you can get.
4) Decisions
For me, it worked out in the end. I got my top choice- a bank that WSO would refer to as a "Mid-Tier BB." But look, when it comes down to it, I realized it was more about fit and the people than anything. Yes, I had other final round interviews, some that many people would deem as "better" options, but I cancelled them as soon as I got the offer. Why worry about placement into PE firms, B-school, etc, if you don't like the people you've spoken to at the firm? Besides, this is SUMMER ANALYST recruiting. The amount of variables between now and 3 years later is huge, so I wouldn't worry about trying to make yourself the best candidate for a megafund 3 years down the line, but that's just me. Besides, whose to say the perceived "top banks" will be the same in a few years? All you need to do is search back throughout the site, and you'll find posts that essentially warn you not to join Firm X because its going down the shitter. A few years later, it's one of the most coveted SA positions on the street, but good call Nostradamus.
5) Last piece of advice: use this website as a resource, but take some things with a grain of salt. I was at a point where I checked the forums nonstop. And by nonstop I mean like 50 times a day. If you posted something, I probably ready it. But really, what does a sophomore in college know about the best groups at a bank? Don't get me wrong, there are some awesome posters on here who know a ton about the industry, way more than I do by far. It's figuring out who they are that's the key.
Best of luck to everyone who's still in the process. Keep your head down and keep fighting through until you get the offer, and once you do, trust me it's all worth it!
Agree 100% on your interviewing tips. I'm still going through recruiting right now, but after changing my mindset the way you did after my first 4 interviews (i guess i'm dumb; it took me a little longer to realize this than you did), I have superdays with all the banks that I interviewed with after (5).
Definitely involve the interviewers in your answers. It really should be a conversation. They should be opening up just as much are you are.
OP thanks for the advice. Appreciate all this.
Any more info on background? Or are you well within range of typical BB stats?
I go to a semi-target and would say that I have a pretty competitive BB résumé. In the 3.8 range, some finance background, and some entrepreneurial type stuff on my résumé. No banking experience, but other than that I'd say I pass the résumé eye test.
Congrats on the offer. Looking at things from the other side of the equation, your interview advice is spot on.
Just a note on getting a bizarre technical - sometimes nailing the answer isn't the most important part. Occasionally we're just looking for your thought process or to see if you have done some research on your own. And not all technical questions are make or break. I'll gradually step up the difficulty of questions with candidates who have shown mastery of simpler subjects. Missing that last question isn't a big deal. Getting it right is simply a bonus.
Excellent post. Very insightful!
Definitely agree on recommending "conversation feel." Only thing I caution, don't turn it into a conversation every chance you get. Some people get dinged making it seem like they're avoiding the technicals. Most interviewers will just want to talk, but others are going to be determined to find out how much you know.
great post, thank you
added it as an example post on http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/contribute-your-story-wisdom-to-wso
Great advice and that was generally my experience recruiting this past month.
I'll go ahead and stress the importance of making the interview conversational. This helps build a rapport and shows that you are a normal human being. The banks that I heard back from after the first round were ones that I was able to just have a conversation with. The superday I had with the bank I ended up signing with was damn near all conversational. Of the 8 interviews I had, two contained no formal questions, we literally just shot the shit about things from golf to football to deals they have worked on. The rest of the interviews were a few formal questions and then just conversation.
This also helps you realize if you could spend a ton of hours with the people. If you can easily hold a conversation with (nearly) everyone in the group, then it should hopefully be a better work environment. If you find it awkward or your interests don't align, then that sheds some light on what working there would be like.
Well said OP. Echoes a lot of the thoughts I had when I finished the process last year.
Loved the last para especially. Go where you fit/will enjoy to work. Worry about everything else later. Thumbs up!
is there any way we could improve on this? you can tell who is a certified user easily, and for non certifieds you can check the sb:ms ratio and their post history, anything else we could do to help users recognize who is a top user whose opinion you can trust more than others?
I think the way the site is set up is great. I probably should have prefaced that by saying I didn't necessarily look into posting history, whether they are a certified user, etc. I do think at times people do not get enough credit/discredit for their posts, as people are hesitant to use up their credits by either throwing MS or giving a SB to someone. Maybe allocating a certain portion of points that someone could give to a poster that didnt deduct from their balance would make people more apt to provide feedback, but I don't think any type of overhaul is necessary.
Having certified users is great, but they rarely post.
Certified Users are often the most active monkeys on the site, which is also something you can check under Top WSO Members... Just for reference, over the past 30 days, 10 of the top 15 most active monkeys were Certified users, and even of those who were not, their posting history and sb / ms ratios are fairly strong. They provide great advice and contributions to the site, and the fact that they are not certified is probably a choice on their part.
If you aren't able to distinguish quality posting and sound advice from the trolling and misinformed, you likely aren't looking hard enough.
Andy - keep up the good work on everything you are doing with respect to promoting content and bringing back high quality posts from the archive. I can tell a VAST improvement in the amount of good stuff available compared to where it was before you started doing what you're doing.
I couldn't agree more about overestimating the competition. I'm from a non-target with decent grades and previous finance experience, but nothing crazy. I was at a networking dinner the night before one of my Superdays and I couldn't help, but begin to freak out as the other candidates mentioned they were from the Ivy's with better GPA's than me.
Culture is huge. I nailed my technicals, but I also found a way to connect with each interviewer and ended up getting the offer over the rest of the kids. Don't sell your self short!
Congrats dude. Quick question: Got a superday Friday for a position I REALLY want. Not a desperation want, but a want as in I actually would love to do it. Any tips on how to nail it? I've only had 1 superday before and didn't exactly kill it.
Just gotta show your passion man. And if they ask you where else you're interviewing, don't hesitate to tell them it's your top choice. I straight up said if I get this I'm done with recruiting.
Pienaar if you made it to the Superday, chances are they already know you're smart and want to see if you'd be a good fit personality wise. Don't kill yourself going over oddball technicals, just focus on expressing your interest in the firm and be likable! Confidence is key my man
Awesome post! I have a quick question for you regarding your advice about pick up the phone. Do you mean that it's good to cold call or did you call the bank after meeting some people already and just schedule a conversation about their firm?
You spelled recruiting wrong
Good post, I agree on most points.
Great insight thank you! Will use some of these tips during recruiting in the fall
as a fourth year associate at a BB, I can tell you that networking is the most critical component of the process. this is especially true when everyone's resume is pretty much the same (especially at Target schools). keep on following up with people, even if we can't reply every single email. i need to see that committment from you.
Thanks for the reflection OP. a couple of quick things: how much does GPA really matter beyond the initial screen? i have a 3.6 with major GPAs slightly higher and was wondering if thats pretty much automatically in the ding range. i've heard people say it's huge but others (some at GS/MS/JPM) saying its completely irrelevant as long as its 3.5+. second, how did you set yourself apart in the networking process? it seems like everyone sends a ton of emails saying "hey mr X, would you have a few minutes to speak about your career, etc", then they keep this bullshit relationship alive for 6-8 months before asking for an interview. how did you differentiate yourself?
I definitely don't think that's a definite ding. I knew people who got interviews with that. The way I look at it is ~3.5-3.6: might have to network a little harder/know someone, ~3.6-3.8: just checking a box/won't set you apart, ~3.8+ becomes an asset.
I think networking is pretty straightforward. One thing I found helpful was asking a unique question at an event, and then following up in an email with "it was great to hear your insight on X (whatever you asked about), I'd love to have a phone call to discuss it more." Then they have something for them to remember you by.
thanks. would you recommend breadth or depth in networking? as in going for more contacts or developing better relationships (assuming there is a direct trade off like that)?
Tough call. I'd say meet a lot of people and try to stay really connected with 1-2
With regards your point about networking: did you just phone up the people you met at events?
Use your competition as motivation, but don't overestimate them.
All the details you probably worry about only matter for getting a phone screen. Once you get a phone screen, nothing else matters but how you interview.
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