Military presence in finance, business schools?

Thank you for your service. There is a strong presence of military people in finance as you probably know at this point, including a number of the people on this board. You will likely have difficulty getting in to PE post mba without experience prior to it. At least one board member here who was a service member got in to a top middle market PE firm straight out of the military though without any experience, though at the entry level position. He is, to the best of my knowledge, going to be applying for MBA's in the near future. He is in Boston though. You may want to look in to the programs that exist at some firms for veterans. I know that it isn't what you are looking for, but a lot of the investment banks have programs for vets, and that is a common option for working prior to moving in to PE. Also, it seems to me that even enlisted people get good access to mba's as long as they have good records. See this guy for example:

http://www.linkedin.com/in/didimolenaar

You may be interested in looking at Linkedin to find other former service members. If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me. However, I am not a vet, just a fan.

Feel free to PM me

1. MBA programs are strong on leadership. Your military experience will help with getting into a top program, despite your "less prestigious" undergrad.

2. Yes, it is more common for officers to transition. No, you will not be looked down upon for being enlisted. Your experience will be met with respect and gratitude.

3. No idea about recruitment from those areas.

Feel free to PM me.

No career pointers, just a genuine thanks from the bottom of my heart for your service.

Congrats! DLI is a tough, and shows that you have the skills to handle anything.

Get a 700 on your GMAT, and you can get in into at least one of them. Prior officers will look down on you, nobody else will know or care.

5 year Navy vet here. I got out of the Navy without any college 6 years ago, went to a top public school (after JC) and came into a middle office role in finance.

One tough point you may find, is that a lot of these places will ask for SAT scores. My public university choices didn't require it, so I never bothered to take it. You'll be coming in at a graduate level, so perhaps the GMAT will be more relevant, but it could be a bit of a pot hole for you. If the GMAT is the only standardized test these employers have for you, I think it may be more important for you than most. At the undergrad level, I know that can be a deal breaker for consulting. That said, McKinsey seems to love vets.

Feel free to PM me.

ralen_jor,

I'm actually a Navy Officer, a graduate of SAIS, and about to begin an MBA at a top program (H/S/W). I think I can answer some of your questions.

First of all, no matter what other people say... go for it. You never know until you try.

1. The fact that you are enlisted doesn't matter. DO NOT LET THIS STOP YOU. I know a few Es that have done quite well. All of them had fairly impressive careers and went to top MBA programs, however.

2. I'm not an admissions officer, but I think you would be severely handicapped by your undergrad if you were applying to a top 20 MBA program. With a decent GMAT, however, I suspect that you'd be competitive at either Georgetown or UMD. Also the lack of brand name UG is easy to explain... you did it on active duty. Honestly, knowing how difficult it is to be on active duty and finish a degree, I give you a lot of credit. If you spin it right, you can use that to your advantage.

3. SAIS is a completely different beast. It is an international relations program, not a business program. It does have a strong international economics program, however, and a lot of grads go into the public sector. So places like the IMF and World Bank. Quite a few people go into international development and work with NGOs. I know a couple of people that went to work for McKinsey in government services. It does not feed people into IB, PE, VC, CF, or S&T. SAIS is a top IR program so your UG degree may be an issue without strong GRE scores. SAIS does have a joint program with Wharton.

4. Crush your GMAT/GRE. If you do well, I think you will be fine. That's the reason that standardized tests exists- to norm people that come from a broad range of backgrounds.

Best of luck.

what's your URM status? if yea, you're gold.

I was enlisted in the Army, and am finishing my undergrad at a state school. While it seems like most military vets working in finance are former officers, it seems like being enlisted can give you just as much of an advantage when trying to break in, as long as you have a good head on your shoulders. Also, I have been very pleased at how receptive former officers have been when I have reached out to them.

With that said, I don't know of many former enlisted vets working in finance, but I think that has more to do with the kinds of people that enlist in the first place (I don't know many guys I served with who want to work in finance). As far as recruiting is concerned, my veteran status has helped me tremendously -- I will be with a large, well known PE firm this summer and they have made it clear that they will give me a full-time offer if all goes well. I know another prior enlisted vet as well who is doing his MBA at my school (with no pre-MBA finance experience) with a PE internship this summer at a large firm.

Feel free to pm if you have any specific questions.

Don't worry about your enlisted background. Frankly? Yea, you're at a disadvantage compared to an ex-officer, but you have a strong selling point regardless. Your MI experience coupled with your leadership roles should be emphasized for your MBA packet. If you love traveling, I would recommend Consulting. Just ace the GRE or GMAT.

Suggestion: From my experience the GRE is much easier.

this shit really got on the front page

come on .....

A few questions for all of you military guys who're attending (or have attended) business school right now -- did you have much contact with school veterans clubs before applying? If so, what was most helpful about the experience? Any specific questions I should ask? When's the best time of year to bother someone?

A quick note about me: dropped out of HYPS undergrad to enlist in the Marine Corps, later attended one of the academies (I received my degree but was unable to accept the commission -- I was medically DQed just before graduation). I'll be applying to a number of schools (all top 25) later this year. I realize that I'm a real long shot due to my atypical life to this point and subpar academy GPA (damn you engineering!), but I figure I might as well take a shot. I'd rather waste the application money than regret it later on in life.

holla, what did you do after you didn't get your commish?

Holla,

I didn't contact any vet groups before I applied. I knew a bunch of grads from the programs I was interested in, however, and I obviously spoke to them. My focus was mostly on the transition from the military to business, different types of opportunities, what would be the best fit for my personality, skill set, lifestyle, and how well placed each school to help me make that transition.

I'm just another guy trying to get somewhere, but I've managed to be successful in academics, business (prior to military), and the military. So I'd like to think that my approach is solid. A lot of good people have supported me along the way so I like to give back to others where I can. You, ralen, and anyone else (vet or otherwise) should feel free to PM me if there's anything specific you want to talk over.

Check out this blog: good source of information on military to business. Used it some when I was applying to schools.

http://militarytobusiness.blogspot.com/

I think your biggest challenge will be addressing your academic career. Do well on the GMAT and you should be fine. In truth, there really are very few enlsited. I know one in my class, but I believe he did an ivy undergrad then enlisted....

Good luck. Should be able to go to an IB somewhere if you want to out of Georgetown, but you'll have to work on it. I'd put the PE dream on hold for 5 years or so...

ralen,

SAIS does put people into the private sector, but they are primarily companies that serve the government. Check out this link for details on SAIS's placement- www.sais-jhu.edu/sebin/o/u/SAIS_EmpOutlk10.pdf

Your info on the SAIS's dual degree with Georgetown may be dated. They only offer dual MBA degrees with Wharton and Tuck. I don't know anyone who did Tuck. A few did Wharton.

Do I think there is any value in doing a dual IR and MBA degree? That's not an easy question. Personally I think it's a powerful combo, and it certainly will differentiate you. Do employers value it? I think it depends on what you want to do. Based on your initial post, it sounds like you are still trying to figure that out. You definitely don't need to get an IR master's to go into IB or consulting though.

SAIS wasn't part of my master plan. I did the program because I had spent 10 years seeing the world up close and personal, and I wanted to put my experiences in a bigger context. It was something I wanted to do, not a means to an end. I think its just something you'll need to feel out for yourself.

It's still a ways off, but if you ultimately decide SAIS is something you are interested in, definitely look me up. I'd be willing talk to you more about the program, and assuming you are fairly squared away, I'd be happy to give you an alumni referral.

prior officers will know who did all the actual work in the military, at least.

Unfortunately, I think the main difference between E and O will be undergrad. PE and other highly competitive places will look for education, and online degrees aren't going to cut it. See military_pe's forum topic for more of that discussion.

melvvvar, I'm not sure if that's a regurgitation of the line enlisted like to say about officers not doing work or not, but it doesn't hold a lot of consequence in these jobs. Education and relevant experience matter. And of course, if you know people that's helpful.

What happened to Military_PE_guy's thread about this topic? It seems like his thread and his entire profile has vanished. Or am I just going crazy here?

First, thanks for your service.

Second, check out American Corporate Partners. I think this is a great program and a solid way to get you connected to the business world which will allow you to further explore exactly what you might want to do going forward.

http://www.acp-usa.org/

Third, crush your GMAT. Study hard and take it more than once if necessary. A high score won't negate all the potential negatives in your application, but it certainly won't hurt. Between the leg up you will get with the military experience and the leadership value inherent in the NCO/senior NCO positions you should have a great shot at all of those schools.

I would urge you to reach out to the veterans clubs at the programs you think you might want to attend. Not only can they serve as a great motivator while you are completing your applications, but they just might be able to have a bit of pull when it comes to the admissions process. In addition to that, it is never going to hurt meeting a few extra folks...you never know when a random job opportunity might pop up and a person you met a few years ago thinks to reach out to you to see if you are interested.

Best of luck.

Regards

Also, reach out to veterans via LinkedIn. Find veterans that were in the same branch or that went to one of the MBA programs you are looking at or that work someplace you might be interested in working. Use the veteran and MBA points to disguise your future job hunting. You basically have some key reasons to reach out to people and plant that seed that you will be going to school soon and that you will be job and internship searching shortly thereafter...all while getting inside information on how that particular veteran managed to make it into that position.

Regards

Don't know if you've ever decided on whether to make that leap from enlisted to MBA yet, but thought I'd chime in.

Once you get in, nobody cares. No prior officer is gonna be a douche to look down on you for whatever reason. You served honorably, and what basis does he/she have to look down on you? You're both in the same friggin place now. You're both competing for the same jobs, and as a matter of fact, sometimes the enlisted guys fair better in the recruiting process. If any officer is stupid enough to look down on a prior enlisted guy and make it known, I guarantee you all the other officers will look down on him as well (for being an immature prick).

Civilians don't even really know the difference between a Sergeant and a Captain. What they do care about is your work experience, and how it relates to the job you're applying for. I'm recruiting for a summer position in consulting right now, and I realize how important it is to tailor your resume and cover letter. They don't really care whether you had 100 direct reports or not, because you'll never have to. Sure, it might give you some perspective, but other than that, all they care is that you are good at leading teams in the magnitude of 3-7 people. And of course, you'll need to show that you're a good fit for the job through your resume and cover letters.

Your biggest hurdle will be the GMAT. You need to absolutely smoke it (aim for 750+) in order to counter your weak UG school. Schools want to make sure that they're accepting smart people, so you need to prove that you're capable through the GMAT. Remember, more than 90% of your competition will be prior officers. You need to really think about why schools should pick you over any other infantry officer who's led 50-200 troops in combat, and then sell yourself. I've got some really astonishing military colleagues here at my school (rangers, company commanders, fighter jet pilots) who've all seen some serious shit in combat.

In some senses, coming from an enlisted background is even better because it's so unique. You're already part of the military network, which is very strong, and you're going to instantly click with any other enlisted-types out there because you both understand where you come from.