Harvard vs. Wharton

I have heard similiar descriptions. Wharton is focused more on finance while Harvard is focused more on operations.

I don't think you can go wrong either way, but I am sure someone on here has actual experience to speak from.

Don't underestimate the prestige factor of HBS/Stan. The most PE/HF/VC jobs come out of these two schools with Wharton in third. However, due to this elitism, you will have shops that only hire HBS/Stan.

This is true for pure recruiting. There are a lot of wharton alumni out there tho, so if you have a good skill set networking shouldnt be a problem. Coming from a case undergrad, the method helps you more as a manager and problem solver but lacks a bit on the technical background till elective courses. So decide what kind of experience you want first then decide.

If you know you want to study finance, then go to Wharton.

Harvard definitely has a strong record of placing grads in PE jobs, but both schools are top notch in all aspects. The major difference is in the style of classes. Wharton is very quantitative, whereas Harvard emphasizes the "soft" skills of strategic thinking and creative problem solving a lot more. You should go with whichever style seems more suited to you.

do you think 2 years of work experience (IB) after college (overseas student) is enough to get in to Harvard/stanford?

not exactly helpful, but the average mba applicant has 4-5 years of work experience I believe.

I'd say if you already were in banking/PE, going to a HBS/Stanford may be more benificial than Wharton since you already have proved you got the quant skills for finance under your belt. Plus b-school is all about networking.

Anyone know any stellar applicants that have been able to get into HBS or Stan without any WE? I know its a stretch, but there have been some. I just want to know what kinds of things these schools look for when taking in an applicant with no WE.

i know of two people that got into Bschool with no WE (HBS/Wharton). I think the most important things seem to be really strong academics from a top college, a good GMAT (720+), and, most importantly, really good business experience either from summers or a school-year venture. in the interview you need to come across as really mature.

what are average gpas they are looking for?

They are looking for an overall impressive undergraduate experience. Good GPA (3.5+) and GMAT (700+) are probably the no-brainer, but besides those quals you will need something "special." You can't put these experience in a box, but for example, I know someone who founded his own company and someone who started a magazine while in college, etc. It's not to say that you have to start your own company to get in. What's more important is to demonstrate how you matured from the process, things you learned, and a different perspective that you will contribute to the classroom. You can probably do that without starting a company, but through your heavy involvement in a program or a cause, etc. For Harvard, demonstrating leadership experience is crucial. Even if you make it straight out of undergrad though, I believe that they recommend you take a year off to get some work experience, because it really helps.

Harvard

Yes! Harvard

I currently have two yrs epxerience as an equity analyst and five yrs govt/military. Question is, what kind of experience is more valuable? Will I need another 2-3 yrs in finance to have a good chance to get into Wharton/Columbia/Stanford/Harvard?

IMO, you have plenty of experience. I went to Chicago for my MBA and I was shocked at the number of students with mostly and all military backgrounds. Schools and recruiters place a premium on that experience for obvious reasons. Anyway, 2 yrs of equity analysis is plenty of "business" experience. Just be sure that your business knowledge comes across in your essays. The maturity factor will be a big selling point for you.

imho hbs - alumni network, management training

That's the best thing I've heard in a long time.

Here are my bullets:
1. HBS best name recognition (better than Wharton)
2. HBS in no way any worse in finance than Wharton -- look at the profs who teach there and the profile of the class.
3. HBS network older, bigger, and better
4. EQs in HBS higher than Wharton
5. HBS campus light years ahead, not even comparable
6. Harvard Econ at FAS (College) one of best in the world, Wharton (??? never heard of theirs)
7. You always hear about HBS while at Wharton, you hardly ever hear about Wharton when at HBS.
Does it ultimatly matter how successful you personally will be? Obviously not. Either one would do. Ceteris paribus, life will be just better at HBS if you are a good fit.

agree with most of your points but...

2b (class profile) and 3 are the decisive ones, 5 is nice to have.
Dunno how 6 is relevant but probably true.

As for EQ, I think HBS kids are smoother in terms of people interactions on the whole, but higher ratio of borderline psychos... A matter of taste...

2a is not true simply because you can't really learn finance through case method, although HBS faculty probably just as qualified in the absolute (and I actually start to wonder whether you can actually learn anything through cases... after all those I've done, actual useful learning has been zilch. It's been interesting in a trivia factoid way, and usually good mcguffins for bullshit classroom discussions, but still a waste of time)

7 - would be curious how you know about this? where did you go? both places? I think wharton kids do have an inferiority complex vs. HBS (mostly stemming from fact that a lot/most of them got dinged by that place) but haven't really seen them caring that much about HBS unprompted... and how is this relevant anyhow?

I would add that HBS has both a much large groupie network and a detractor network, people either ready to cheer it on or slam it, while standing on the outside and despite the fact that none of them will ever be formally associated with the place. I think it is a substantial advantage for harvard, controversy adds to the mythos of the place, brand recognition etc. I mean, chill folks, it's just a school. A boring place to get a paper while you goof off and wait for the time to start making some real bucks :-)

i'm a recent wharton grad and generally it was fairly difficult to get PE jobs if you weren't in that industry before school.

How much does gmat matter for these schools?

a lot.

I plan to get my CFA before getting my MBA. How much does the Wharton/HBS finance curriculum overlap?

Underdog:

I'm currently at Wharton, am ex-Navy and am heavily involved in the program's admissions process. Many vets. come directly from the service...your W/E is fine.

is the key issue here. Going to HBS to pursue a finance focus is akin to playing soccer professionally in the US. For anything other than finance, however, I would recommend HBS without a second thought. Also note that VC/PE (two areas in which HBS excels) are not really "finance" disciplines per se...more of a mix of operations and finance (particularly VC). VC/PE players add value through operations and strategy, not through finance. By finance I mean S&T, hedge funds, maybe even pure banking.

I did go to both of these schools (one for undergrad, the other for MBA).

Isitsec:

Thanks for the reply. Do you know how many vets apply to Wharton? What other schools did you look at? What was the deciding factor?

I'm looking forward to Dec. 21.

I don't know the how many vets in total apply to Wharton but I would love to know that data. I applied to 5 schools in total (W/S/MIT/Haas/Chi); was accepted into 2, waitlisted at 1 and dinged by the remainder. I picked Wharton because of the way it ran its first-year core (love my learning team and wouldn't have it any other way) and because of the people I met during visits. Honestly, the key to success in going to any top 10 school is fitting in with your peers. You will spend 2 years and develop life-long connections with these people, so make sure you feel comfortable and you can have fun with them. DO NOT WORRY about rankings or perceptions read on the common boards like Businessweek. Find a school about which you are passionate and dive in head first. Discounted cash flows work the same way no matter which school you attend...

BTW: please review the Wharton Veterans Club Website if you are ex-military.

why is military experience looked upon so favorably by b-school admissions people??

gsb has grt finance credentials but a geeky image. how does that hold with recruiters?

go with harvard

Less work than Harvard (if that's possible), same education, great finance network. Harvard also has a reputation with many recruiters as having a bunch of dicks that feeled entitled to good jobs...

Harvard has something like 1.5x as many job postings as graduates. Prolly a good sign

To address the post above:

1) "Harvard" has better name recognition than "Wharton". "Harvard Business School" does not. There's nothing wrong with riding off the parent school's name, but realize there is a difference.
3) The alumni network issue follows my comments on #1--Wharton's network is both larger and older than HBS's network. Yes, Harvard's overall network is larger and older than Wharton's, but that's irrelevant. Same applies to other grad programs--it's like saying Columbia's network is larger than JFK's, so go to SIPA at Columbia and not JFK at Harvard. Yes, Columbia has a bigger network than JFK by itself, but not than Harvard overall. Compare apples to apples here.
5) Campus? Have you been to both? Yes, HBS's is prettier and bigger because it's separated from the main campus, but with Wharton's new building (opened somewhere around 2004) Wharton has more classroom space and is far more advanced from an IT point of view (which matters alot when you're trying to knock out a project at 4am and the network craps the bed on you).

In both reputation, name recognition and alumni network, HBS is easily ahead of Wharton (same probably not true for quality of education and atmosphere of campus). But then again, HBS is miles ahead of everyone else, with W/S in a comfortable 2/3

Wharton has a larger alumni network. HBS claims 65,000 alumni worldwide. Wharton claims 81,000. Wharton also has a much wider reach worldwide, with more alumni living abroad, more alumni in non-US high-level gov't post, more grads placed overseas, etc. Again, I am comparing HBS (not Harvard overall) and Wharton.

Reputation and name recognition is a little more debateable. I would note that on Wall Street Wharton has far more representation on the MBA level than HBS does on the sell-side. And in PE/VC and consulting the numbers are almost identical at either school. Where HBS does have a big leg up is in general management. Getting a general management job is just as easy out of either HBS or Wharton, but more people from HBS go into management then out of Wharton so there is more representation in that area.

Point is, HBS is not "miles ahead" of anyone else, Stanford, Wharton, Chicago, etc. And if you really think so then please back up your assertion with some recruiting numbers.

Comment: I think we can all agree VC's a very high profile and selective area to get into. Check out the "profiles" on the websites of all the decent VCs: 40% are HBS, 40% are Stanford MBA, the rest are some other MBA (including but not only Wharton) and some genius managers/entrepreneurs...

Wharton's 81K includes their undergrads, so it isn't a true apples-to-apples comparison.

HBS' class size is 900; Wharton (MBA) is 800. Looking at BW's data(http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/04/full_time_profiles/wharton3.htm), roughly 30% of each class (both HBS and Wharton) go into consulting and 30% into finance. Hence, more HBS alum (#s) are placed on wall-street and in the consulting firms.

Looking at the top level of consulting firms, there is a big skew towards HBS (http://www.bcg.com/this_is_bcg/leadership/leadership1.html or http://www.bain.com/bainweb/About/our_leaders.asp or http://www.mckinsey.com/ideas/wef2004/biographies/rajat.asp). BCG's founder Bruce Henderson is alum, as is Orit Gadiesh, chairman of Bain.

Same story for the heads of the top-tier banks (Whitehead, Weinberg Jnr, Paulson from GS, Dimon for JPM, Wasserstein, Parella, Jenrette, etc).

Go to http://www.blackstone.com/team/default.asp or http://www.baincapital.com/team.asp?b=3&l=11 or http://www.carlyle.com/eng/team/l4-team1349.html or http://www.provequity.com/team.html and see where most of the PE guys got their MBAs from. VC is a similar picture, with more unconventional backgrounds in there as well.

Additionally, your claim about more Wharton grads being placed internationally is also not backed up by the BW data (16% Wharton vs. 19% HBS, with HBS having 100 more grads).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Wharton isn't a great school, all I'm saying is that HBS has an edge over Wharton (reputation and alumni network)- and the data seems to back that up.

Business Week's stats are wrong across the board. Keep in mind that both HBS and Wharton have refused to provide info to Business Week, so their data is not at all accurate. The proper data to use is each school's career report.
HBS Class of 60: 899, Wharton: 825
HBS Consulting: 21% (189 people), Wharton Consulting: 28.7% (237 people)
HBS Finance: 42% (377 people), Wharton Finance: 44.2% (365 people).

So the numbers are very similar. I said earlier that on the sell-side Wharton is more represented, which is very true. If you look at the associates classes for the major banks over the past few years you will find a far higher number of people from Wharton, Chicago, and CBS then you will from HBS. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm just saying that on Wall Street you don't run into all that many HBS people. And representation between the two is fairly equal in consulting.
You are right about senior leadership, but keep in mind that decades ago few people got masters, so if you did get an MBA most went to HBS. As the demand for advanced degrees is increasing people can now choose between many schools. Point is, HBS is no longer the only game in town. So from a recruiting point of view HBS gives you no real advantage, overall, over Stanford or Wharton, or for that matter, Chicago, etc. The one possible exception is LBO/PE, but like another poster said, the vast majority who get those jobs out of b-school had experience prior to the MBA. So which school you go to isn't really the relevant point.

BTW it all comes down to who YOU are. The brand name can only allow you a chance to apply to bank/PE/consulting and have your resume read. But that's it.

Both HBS and Wharton are pretty equal

Cnnmoney.com just recently published a list of the 50 Best Business Schools for Getting Hired. Wharton was #1 and Harvard was #2, so they are both top-notch.

HBS is beautiful, was there for a conference not long ago.

Is it an advantage to have a Harvard B.A. degree when trying to place into HBS?

Yes, B schools are moving towards younger applicants.

dongminate--probably not. I think schools tend to want you to branch out a little, as do employers. And you really should just for your own personal benefit. I knew a ton of kids at Wharton who went to Harvard ugrad, and did not even apply to HBS specifically because they wanted to do their grad studies at a different university. Likewise, I knew a ton of Wharton ugrads who avoided applying to Wharton for their MBA.

Harvard, reasons in no particular order
-better name
-better network
-less asians
-better campus (huntsman hall is a piece of shit)
-better city
-less jews
-better resources because it's good at pretty much everything
-cheaper
-you'll get laid easier if you tell a broad you went to HBS than if you said Penn

"-you'll get laid easier if you tell a broad you went to HBS than if you said Penn"
hilariously true

d

Wharton has higher prestige but HBS is cooler & more fun