Pages

3/17/11

I'm guessing that most of you don't think much of Detroit, but I'm from the Ann Arbor-area, I'm going to go to the University of Michigan, I've got all of my family and friends in the area, I've got all my sports teams in the area (lol), I love the city of Detroit - and I want to live and work there...and I'd also like to make as lucrative a living as I can there.

I've done a lot of research on hedge funds, private equity, venture capital, investment banking, consulting, and investment management...so, I know a little bit about how much the top execs in those fields make, about their career paths, and about their job responsibilities. But, I still don't know enough about what's available in the Detroit-area, and how salaries there compare to more popular financial hubs (NY, CHI, SF, etc.). I do know that McKinsey's got an office in Detroit, and that Ann Arbor's got a couple of good venture capital firms, but that's about it (I don't come from a 'finance/law/corporate-family,' obviously).

So...here's my question: What are some of the top paying financial jobs (/financial firms) in the greater metro Detroit-area? And how do their salaries compare to other top fields in the area...lawyers, doctors, corporate execs, etc...?

Thanks a ton for any help guys!

Best,

Brady

Little background info - I'm still just a high school senior, I've got a wide-range of interests, and I've got - what I believe to be - a wide range of skills and talents as well. So, I'm still pretty open in terms of career choices. I think that I'm going to start off at the UofM with the intentions of getting into the undergraduate business program (BBA degree). I could probably get into a good MBA program (after getting some work experience) or law school if I did well in that program. I might even hedge my bets a little bit and take some pre-med courses in my first year.

Comments (217)

Best Response
3/18/11

Brady, you need a major attitude adjustment. For someone claiming to come from the most chill city in North America, you sure come off as pretty fucking un-chill.

If you look back and read this whole thread, you'll see that the majority of posts not made by you have been people giving you candid and realistic advice about opportunities in Detroit. Despite that, you belittle our cities for stupid, subjective measures like the people being "ugly" and not as "tough."

I think my favorite part of this thread so far is when you claimed other cities were "all style, no substance" without seeing how absurdly ironic your comment was. The bottom line is that we would never have to post a thread asking where the "high paying" jobs in New York or San Francisco are.

The WSO Advantage - Private Equity

PE Interview Prep Pack

9 LBO Tests, Get an Edge, 200pgs+

Resume Help from Actual PE Pros

Land More PE Interviews.

3/17/11

CFO of Kwame Kilpatrick Murder and Executions LLC.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

3/17/11

alright, i'm gonna go ahead and put an end to this shit right now...

Detroit is a wonderful and unique place. No where else in the world will you see hot shot executives, local celebrities and regular old construction workers (or whatever) sitting at the same table, and eating the same $2 coney dogs. It's the most laid-back city in the world. It's got big companies, monster buildings, pro teams in all the major sports (along with great, great fans), art galleries, museums, bars, clubs, etc...and no traffic (on the roads or on the sidewalks). There's a relatively thin ring of (very) poor neighborhoods that circles the city - where ignorance and crime exist, but inside of that circle we've got a great city, and outside of that circle we've got some of america's greatest suburbs (there's an annoying group of bums that gather around the stadiums for games...and that's scary to some...but they're harmless). And yes, we've had a long, long, long string of bad political leadership here...and stupid voters...but I think that's sort of on the rebound now. Regardless, it's the perfect city for a certain kind of person. I'd suggest that you actually spend a significant amount of time in the city before talking shit about it (or at least get your information from someone that's actually spent a significant amount of time in the city).

In reply to Brady Hoke
3/17/11
Brady Hoke:

alright, i'm gonna go ahead and put an end to this shit right now...

The city is doing a great job of putting an end to itself without your help thanks.

I do respect that you defend your hometown though. Props.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

3/17/11

if you're too scared to come here, we don't want you here anyways. now quit ruining my thread with your ignorance (and yes, talking shit about a place you've never even been to is ignorance). i want to get some helpful answers.

3/17/11

I've been there, I'm not scared of Detroit, get over yourself.

Real answer: There are boutiques in Detroit just like any other city. There also consulting firms that have offices out of Detroit (BCG included if memory serves). There are a few threads where people have posted lists of boutiques by city and region. Those would be a good place to start.

I am sorry Duke didn't recruit you out of undergrad Mr. Rose.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

3/17/11

I was at "the trendiest restaurant" visiting a friend for no less than 5 minutes when someone SPRINTS in takes a glass bottle and cracks it over the guys head across from him and sprints out.

Class class class

3/17/11
3/17/11

illini - comerica's just a commercial bank isn't it? salaries can't be that high, can they? i realize that i could become ceo of the bank and make millions...or maybe ceo of ford. but i also realize that i could win the mega millions lotto. we're talking about very small percentages there.

happy - how do boutique salaries generally compare across fields? is it the same as major shops (with HF, PE, VC, IB being at the top)? are certain fields more lucrative in certain regions (like, auto consultants perhaps making more than private equity heads in D-Town)?

3/17/11

Im sure there is some corrupt union (as if there was any other kind) gig that pays well.

Or perhaps a local credit union has an affirmative action program for white people.

Seriously, you're already off to a bad start by starting your search with "highest paying" as criteria 1, though that puts you in good company with the other youngins on here. Find something you want to do, then worry about what it pays. Frankly, you don't know shit at 18 (and neither did I...or 22 for that matter)....nor should you. Have fun, do well in school, find something that interests you...there is PLENTY of time to worry about a career.

3/17/11

there arent ballerseque jobs in detroit so dont bitch about salaries not being that high at a commercial bank. sure there are going to be SOME high paying jobs but godspeed.

3/17/11

There's a PE shop in Birmingham called Valstone Partners that recruits for internships all the time at Ross, I interviewed with them once. You might want to reach out to them prior to your sophomore summer and ask if you can help.
As far as pay goes, I couldn't give you an accurate figure.

In reply to PossumBelly
3/17/11
Cartwright:

Im sure there is some corrupt union (as if there was any other kind) gig that pays well.

Or perhaps a local credit union has an affirmative action program for white people.

Seriously, you're already off to a bad start by starting your search with "highest paying" as criteria 1, though that puts you in good company with the other youngins on here. Find something you want to do, then worry about what it pays. Frankly, you don't know shit at 18 (and neither did I...or 22 for that matter)....nor should you. Have fun, do well in school, find something that interests you...there is PLENTY of time to worry about a career.

Cartwright - I appreciate, and agree with that advice. I suppose that I should have been more clear in the original post. I'm really talking more about places I'd like to intern at over the summers...as opposed to long-term career choices...at this point. I figured I'd start with some of the higher-paying options. See if I like them first, lol.

In reply to SAC
3/17/11

There's a PE shop in Birmingham called Valstone Partners that recruits for internships all the time at Ross, I interviewed with them once. You might want to reach out to them prior to your sophomore summer and ask if you can help.
As far as pay goes, I couldn't give you an accurate figure.

SAC - Thanks for the source. What do PE shops in the metro detroit area do, for the most part? Buy small auto manufacturing companies? I guess that there are also some pharmaceutical and bio-tech (and maybe even some alternative energy) companies in Ann Arbor. And come on...no idea how their salaries compare to other jobs in the area? I should've mentioned that I'm cool with very, very broad estimates.

In reply to happypantsmcgee
3/17/11
happypantsmcgee:

I've been there, I'm not scared of Detroit, get over yourself.

I almost forgot to mention the very best part about living in detroit...all the pussies and ignorant yuppies have been scared away. all that's left is real, simple and tough people.

(and then a bunch of garbage in the garbage areas, but only garbage goes there).

3/17/11

i heard the real estate is highly undervalued and the police force is robust.

the public schools are slam dunks too

In reply to Brady Hoke
3/17/11
Brady Hoke:
happypantsmcgee:

I've been there, I'm not scared of Detroit, get over yourself.

I almost forgot to mention the very best part about living in detroit...all the pussies and ignorant yuppies have been scared away. all that's left is real, simple and tough people.

(and then a bunch of garbage in the garbage areas, but only garbage goes there).

I don't know if your desire to live with "real, simple, and tough" people is concordant with your desire to have the "highest paying" job.

Consultant to a Fortune 50 Company

In reply to shorttheworld
3/17/11
shorttheworld:

i heard the real estate is highly undervalued and the police force is robust.

the public schools are slam dunks too

real estate and police suck in the garbage areas, same as anywhere else. and SE Michigan has some of the world's best private schools.

In reply to alexpasch
3/17/11

I don't know if your desire to live with "real, simple, and tough" people is concordant with your desire to have the "highest paying" job.

I don't really care what the bottom-line salary is...compared to NY, CHI, SF, whatever, etc. I just want to make the most that I can doing something that appeals to me in the city of Detroit.

...btw...a little bit of money goes a long way here. I've even got some friends - high school friends! - that (along with some help from their parents) have BOUGHT HOUSES in Detroit with money from summer jobs. and i'm talking about houses in decent neighborhoods, too.

In reply to Brady Hoke
3/17/11
Brady Hoke:

There's a PE shop in Birmingham called Valstone Partners that recruits for internships all the time at Ross, I interviewed with them once. You might want to reach out to them prior to your sophomore summer and ask if you can help.
As far as pay goes, I couldn't give you an accurate figure.

SAC - Thanks for the source. What do PE shops in the metro detroit area do, for the most part? Buy small auto manufacturing companies? I guess that there are also some pharmaceutical and bio-tech (and maybe even some alternative energy) companies in Ann Arbor. And come on...no idea how their salaries compare to other jobs in the area? I should've mentioned that I'm cool with very, very broad estimates.

The ones I know of are involved in RE and on the transportation side. I also know Bill Ford's PE/VC firm focuses on transportation technologies: http://www.fontinalispartners.com, and they also recruit at Ross.

As far as salaries, the larger banks and consulting firms will have similar starting salaries across the board, maybe a slight haircut to NY, so we're talking $60K starting ?

In reply to Brady Hoke
3/17/11
Brady Hoke:

alright, i'm gonna go ahead and put an end to this shit right now...

Detroit is a wonderful and unique place. No where else in the world will you see hot shot executives, local celebrities and regular old construction workers (or whatever) sitting at the same table, and eating the same $2 coney dogs. It's the most laid-back city in the world. It's got big companies, monster buildings, pro teams in all the major sports (along with great, great fans), art galleries, museums, bars, clubs, etc...and no traffic (on the roads or on the sidewalks). There's a relatively thin ring of (very) poor neighborhoods that circles the city - where ignorance and crime exist, but inside of that circle we've got a great city, and outside of that circle we've got some of america's greatest suburbs (there's an annoying group of bums that gather around the stadiums for games...and that's scary to some...but they're harmless). And yes, we've had a long, long, long string of bad political leadership here...and stupid voters...but I think that's sort of on the rebound now. Regardless, it's the perfect city for a certain kind of person. I'd suggest that you actually spend a significant amount of time in the city before talking shit about it (or at least get your information from someone that's actually spent a significant amount of time in the city).

REPORT TO MOLLOM

3/17/11

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/29/best-prep-schools...

not a single mention of a private school in south east michigan. plz try again

3/17/11

1. your prep school list sucks
2. se michigan does have some quality magnet / public / cd schools

3/17/11

if detroit country day...detroit catholic central...cranbrook...etc...aren't good enough places for your kids to learn calculus and social skills...then we don't want you or your soon-to-be babied/overly-entitled/pussy/a-hole kid anywhere near our state.

In reply to SAC
3/17/11

The ones I know of are involved in RE and on the transportation side. I also know Bill Ford's PE/VC firm focuses on transportation technologies: http://www.fontinalispartners.com, and they also recruit at Ross.

As far as salaries, the larger banks and consulting firms will have similar starting salaries across the board, maybe a slight haircut to NY, so we're talking $60K starting ?

boy...i would love to work for bill ford's PE firm.

3/17/11

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to happypantsmcgee
3/17/11
happypantsmcgee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

serious question - does everyone that knows you hate you as much as i suspect they do?

The WSO Advantage - Private Equity

PE Interview Prep Pack

9 LBO Tests, Get an Edge, 200pgs+

Resume Help from Actual PE Pros

Land More PE Interviews.

3/17/11

If you are interested in alternative investment firms in Detroit, go to the Cap IQ threads for hedge funds and PE and request that someone run a scan for you and post it there. Don''t hold your breath, because there is no big presence of financial firms in Detroit, and those that exist will serve a very small market. As such, the pay will not be as high as you would like.

If finance is where your interests lie, your best bet would be to try and manage money for the parents who send their kids to those prep schools you mentioned. See if any firms have PWM offices in those burbs.

You set yourself up for the Detroit jokes. Everyone could see the chip on your shoulder from the first sentence in your post. Also, consider the audience. What did you expect?

I've spent the past year on a consulting gig at one of the autos in Detroit, and everyone says the same thing. "We're tough and real." No, you're angry and your city is more dangerous than most because a lot of people are jobless.

Go to Ross see if you still want to do finance in Detroit while your peers are spending their summers in NY and Chi. If you still want to come back after a few years, then I've got nothing but respect for you.

3/17/11

a big middle market PE (and/or consulting?) firm has been brought to my attention via private message from someone that read my original post...Conway MacKenzie. anyone ever heard of them? any additional info on them would be greatly, greatly appreciated.

i will check the cap iq threads, but i am already familiar with a number of the higher aum firms in SE michigan (as far as knowing of them) via the crain-detroit-business magazine/website. it's really just that i have no idea who's making what.

...and really!?...you think that i'd make more managing money for SE michigan families than i would in PE or consulting?

also, maybe it's time for me to share some of my opinions on your cities:

...i've spent a great deal of time in chicago (friends, relatives there), and i've spent a couple of weeks each in new york, boston and san francisco as well. and i don't like the cultures, at all. all i see when i go to these cities is a bunch of wasteful spending. i see ugly loser executives moving around in super expensive suits, super expensive cars...and looking miserable because their wives - whom they all expected to be supermodels - are actually very, very mediocre looking gold diggers. all style, no substance. (turns out that they still prefer good-looking men that make $60,000 a year to ugly trolls that make $200,000 a year, eh?)

...$1,000,000 apartments as big as my garage, $50,000 rides that sit in parking garages 360 days a year, $1,000 suits and watches to wear...at work, so-so $100 meals at rip-off restaurants, $100 bar nights at clubs filled with mediocre-looking women that usually have terrible personalities...80-hour work weeks, no time for family and non-work friends (if you have any), no time for adult-rec league sports...and, of course, 'street people' wearing $100 hoodies taking breaks from their cell phone conversations to beg passers-by for money.

i'll take my $50 hoody, my used car, my smoking hot "country" girlfriend, our $40 dinner and movie dates, my real friends, adult-hockey, basketball, baseball, golf and bowling leagues 3-4 nights a week, and DETROIT any day of the week. no offense - because i really do appreciate you helping me, and i really do appreciate that other people have their own ideas about how time and money should be spent --- but if you think that detroit is 'dangerous,' i think that you're a scared little pussy.

3/17/11

That youtube video was pretty hilarious.

If you want to be wealthy in Detroit then the only sure way to go is to become a physician, preferably surgical sub-specialist.

In reply to HeHateMe
3/17/11
HeHateMe:

That youtube video was pretty hilarious.

If you want to be wealthy in Detroit then the only sure way to go is to become a physician, preferably surgical sub-specialist.

that's what my girlfriend/probable fiancee is going into. seems kind of boring to me though...so, idk.

3/17/11

pe shops in detroit area:

beringea
glencoe capital
huron capital
long point capital
peninsula capital
rockbridge growth equity
transportation resource partners

all are under $1 billion aum though.

also pretty sure all have university of michigan guys at them

3/17/11

^^^ Which is fine because UMich is arguably one of the best undergrad b-schools in the country.

3/17/11

Whatever you do, don't go to Umich and fail to get into Ross... I'm doing econ by choice and getting shit on for it so far.

3/17/11

thanks frank r...some of those i knew about...some i didn't. there's one PE firm that claims to have 2 bil in management in southgate, MI...but i think that they are cross-listed in chicago as well. and pretty much anything of worth around here seems to have some michigan guys, so that's good.

unadbro - if i don't get in...should i transfer? or would it be better to go with a BS in finance and hang onto the Michigan name?

In reply to IlliniProgrammer
3/17/11
IlliniProgrammer:

^^^ Which is fine because UMich is arguably one of the best undergrad b-schools in the country.

i meant it in the sense of, op is going to michigan, these shops have michigan alums, therefore he should probably consider reaching out to some of them.

3/17/11

What's with the chip on your shoulder? You need to relax man. Shitting on cities that you know nothing about because people (who may or may not know anything about Detroit) are shitting on your city doesn't help you out. If you want to make money in finance, you need to start elsewhere. That's it. End of story. You're going to have a hard time progressing through the ranks at these firms unless you plan to spend your entire life at one place, make it to partner-level.

No one is criticizing you for your desire to stay in Detroit, it's really about your douchey attitude.

3/17/11

Fuck you Michigan state!!!

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

3/17/11

Fuck you Michigan state!!!

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to Brady Hoke
3/18/11
Brady Hoke:

if i don't get in...should i transfer? or would it be better to go with a BS in finance and hang onto the Michigan name?

Michigan's a fine school, I wouldn't transfer purely because there would likely be nowhere better to transfer to at that point. Econ's not exactly a death knell and it might just be me, but it seems like firms tend to ignore econ majors from UM because there are so many Ross kids with the same/better credentials. I literally have a 3.9 and haven't gotten a single interview as a sophomore. Networking/my resume might be the issue, but I think it's mostly the former.
The only way to do finance at UM is at Ross, and even then it's just a set of electives rather than a concentration. The only degrees at Ross undergrad is the BBA.

Also, just some facts, an MD from Beringea came to Ross last month and said they already have all the interns they need for the summer, and one Partner from Valstone and one from Huron Cap, both econ grads, spoke last week. Both of them started out in IB outside of Michigan before coming back years later - this might be a more realistic path.

In reply to Umadbro
3/18/11
Umadbro:

Both of them started out in IB outside of Michigan before coming back years later - this might be a more realistic path.

of course.

In reply to jimbrowngoU
3/18/11
jimbrowngoU:

What's with the chip on your shoulder? You need to relax man. Shitting on cities that you know nothing about because people (who may or may not know anything about Detroit) are shitting on your city doesn't help you out. If you want to make money in finance, you need to start elsewhere. That's it. End of story. You're going to have a hard time progressing through the ranks at these firms unless you plan to spend your entire life at one place, make it to partner-level.

No one is criticizing you for your desire to stay in Detroit, it's really about your douchey attitude.

agree on some points. disagree on others.

#1) I don't care who you are, or where you're from...if you're an open-minded person that isn't terrified of poor black people and you give Detroit an actual shot (...you know, actually leave your hotel room, actually walk around a bit, meet some locals and see what the city has to offer) I can almost guarantee that you'll come back. Like I said, it's probably one of the (I can't say THE, because I haven't seen them all) most laid back cities in north america...and it's got one of the best art/music scenes in north america, especially for smart 20-somethings...who basically get to run the place bc all the vets are in the burbs. Then we've also got some of the nicest suburbs for families in the country, I think Bloomfield Hills is actually like the 4th richest city in America. I just get sick of morons who've never even been here (and walking through the airport/sitting in your hotel room doesn't qualify) talking sh!t about the city. I, on the other hand, have actually spent at least a couple of weeks in NY, CHI, BOS, SF, and I have good reasons for personally not liking them, while (at least somewhat) respectfully acknowledging that other people might be into that style. I LOVE DETROIT. I. LOVE. DETROIT. If one person's read this thread, and for the first time heard an actual account of what someone who knows the city thinks about it, then my rant isn't pointless. Maybe they'll have the balls to check it out for themselves and end up loving it. Whatever though. We don't want ignorant yuppie pussies here anyways. Enjoy NYC and the complete lack of negative aspects that one enjoys there.

Anyways, yeah, I know that I'll probably have to do at least a two-year stint in Chicago (ugh). But I'd be more than happy to find a good firm in Detroit and spend my entire career there.

In reply to happypantsmcgee
3/18/11
happypantsmcgee:

Fuck you Michigan state!!!

i'm going to the UofM, moron

In reply to Brady Hoke
3/18/11
Brady Hoke:
happypantsmcgee:

Fuck you Michigan state!!!

i'm going to the UofM, moron

I was at a bar watching the NCAA tournament (in which MSU lost further fucking my bracket) with people not beating off to pictures of Detroit...moron.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

3/18/11

what exactly do you mean by "with"

3/18/11

Hey Brady Hoke, can I get an opinion on the city of Detriot? I've heard it's absolutely terrible, true?

In reply to JeffSkilling
3/18/11
JeffSkilling:

Hey Brady Hoke, can I get an opinion on the city of Detriot? I've heard it's absolutely terrible, true?

yup, stay where you are.

3/18/11

Most of the talent's leaving the state, so it should be easier to rise to the top quicker at least
-half kidding... also half serious

In reply to Nouveau Richie
3/18/11
Nouveau Richie:

Brady, you need a major attitude adjustment. For someone claiming to come from the most chill city in North America, you sure come off as pretty fucking un-chill.

If you look back and read this whole thread, you'll see that the majority of posts not made by you have been people giving you candid and realistic advice about opportunities in Detroit. Despite that, you belittle our cities for stupid, subjective measures like the people being "ugly" and not as "tough."

I think my favorite part of this thread so far is when you claimed other cities were "all style, no substance" without seeing how absurdly ironic your comment was. The bottom line is that we would never have to post a thread asking where the "high paying" jobs in New York or San Francisco are.

1) thanks for the recap, doctor. i've thanked the people that have helped. i've given the morons talking shit about a place they've never been to a piece of my mind as well (this is the last time i'll apologize for - or even address - hurting your delicate feelings with some objective truth about the lifestyles a lot of you live).

2) search the forum for "highest paying jobs in New York or San Francisco." actually, check that...search amazon.com for books with that title. then, let me know how it goes.

3/18/11

For a senior in high school, you should really relax. Really... I'm not trying to be offensive to Detroit here, I'm just taking a step back and letting you know that you're very uptight. You referenced a girl that is your "probable future fiance" and you're 17/18 -- you might want to reconsider that. What happens if you meet a smokeshow at UM that is from the Connecticut 'burbs who wants to live in NY -- will you refuse a move then? It seems your desire to stay in Detroit is firmly entrenched in your girlfriend, family and friends; there's a good chance that if you get into Ross and decide to focus in finance, all of your friends will end up out outside of Detroit (because, quite frankly, few kids interested in finance from a school like UM would actually want to stay in Detroit. It's not exactly the best place to start a career in high finance), and there's a good chance any girl you may be interested in won't want to remain in Detroit either.

I just think you need a bit of a reality check.

3/18/11

again, thank you doctor. either have some advice about financial jobs available in detroit or move on. i don't need to be talked to like i'm twelve years old. i HAVE considered all of these obvious issues.

3/18/11

You act like you're 12 years old, that's why you're getting spoken to like you're 12 years old. I was trying to be nice and let you know that before you get your panties in a bunch, consider that a lot changes in a few years.

In reply to Brady Hoke
3/18/11
Brady Hoke:

again, thank you doctor. either have some advice about financial jobs available in detroit or move on. i don't need to be talked to like i'm twelve years old. i HAVE considered all of these obvious issues.

Well, I can respect your take on things. It may not be much consolation, but us Chicagoans felt the same way about New York as I suspect Michiganders feel about Chicago and New York.

Here's my story- I got offers from a couple of firms in Chicago but then I got a really cool opportunity in New York to do a job that did not exist in Chicago. At the time, I didn't think it was worth leaving Chicago, but I talked to my friends, my family, and everyone else, and they said I was crazy if I didn't go to New York.

I would have taken a 40% pay cut to be able to have that job in Chicago or even a Midwestern city like Milwaukee or Detroit. But some of the most interesting entry-level jobs are in New York and London, and they *MUST* stay there. Now that it is three years later and I have significant savings, if I really want to, I can head back to Chicago and land an interesting job. It would be really cool because I still stay in touch with some of my friends back there. But had I started in Chicago, it would have taken much, much longer to get to this point.

And there's outdoorsy stuff you can't do in Michigan that you can do in New York. Ellenville, NY- 90 minutes away- has some of the best hang gliding east of Denver. The shipping lanes of Long Island and New Jersey probably have more wrecks to dive than anywhere in the world. A lot of the normal people involved in finance get involved in some sort of outdoor sport (just avoid yachting/sailing) as an alternative to the $1500 bottle service scene, and if you live in Hoboken and Brooklyn, folks are relatively chill.

So my "professional medical recommendation" is yes, aim for Detroit if you can, but don't write-off New York, either. Yes, New York City is a pretentious, overpriced hellhole with anti-Midwestern values. But there are ways of working around that and making lots of friends.

3/18/11

thank you both for your concern. i have acknowledged earlier in the thread that i realize i probably will have to spend at least a 2 year stint in a major financial hub. i'm done with the (subjective) comparisons of cities - bc that's getting me nowhere here (as far as actually accumulating useful information is concerned).

my goal is to end up with a great career in Detroit, making as much money as i can doing something that appeals to me there. i've gotten a ton of great leads thus far in this thread, and i hope to get some more as it continues. i'm in the process of developing some important response questions to ask the board right now, but it's going to take me a little bit of time to finalize and present.

3/18/11

Brady Hoke you sound like a weird dude.

3/18/11

Ok. So then my recommendation here would be to aim for equities research or trading in New York. Also get cracking on the CFAs.

I see a future for you as a hedge fund owner. It's true that there's a fair amount of wealth in the Detroit suburbs, and you'd at least have significant comparative advantages at capital raising- especially as a UMich grad.

It will take you more like four years. Once you make VP, have a CFA, and have about $100K-200K you're willing to risk + three years' Detroit living expenses saved up, you should be ready. Those kinds of credentials and that kind of backround- plus some hustle- would be enough to take a good stab at getting an asset management business off the ground.

One last thing- when you hit 24-25 and have some savings up, you look at money differently than you did in college. If you have $100-200K invested in the market, that's money you don't want to take quite as big risks with- you worked hard for it and it could help you retire early. It's not the same as you'd look at the $5K you saved up from summer jobs. That's money you can make back in a single summer- $100K is money that took years to save up. So you will not necessarily be comfortable risking everything you've saved on a hedge fund.

3/18/11
3/18/11

Illini - thank you for the thoughtful response. I think that I'd prefer equities research to trading - as I'm not that great at math. I'd also prefer Chicago to NY or SF, if that's possible? And, just to be clear, we're talking about starting off with the best IB I can out of college here, correct?

Two general concerns though:

#1) Me, a hedge fund manager!? Seems kind of intimidating. I'm a smart kid and all - smart enough to get into UofM at least. But successful hedge fund managers tend to be more along the lines of 'genius,' don't they? I like the idea of being the manager of a fund of hedge funds and/or private equity funds more. Seems like it'd be a lot less risky. Seems like it'd be lot less genius-intensive. And it seems like it'd be a lot less labor-intensive as well (I don't want to be working 80 hours a week, 50 weeks a year or my whole life). The trade-off is obviously a significant difference in income. But my thinking in that regard is sort of along the lines of..."what can I really do with 400K a year that I can't do with 200K a year."

#2) I'm sure I'll feel a lot differently after 4 years of school, and 4 years of work experience...but...how in the he!! do you go about getting a bunch of rich people to put you in charge of their money...and as a 26 year old!? The task of marketing my fund and getting people to give me millions of dollars to invest seems sort of daunting to me right now. Especially with all the stiff competition out there.

Thanks again for your input though!

In reply to Brady Hoke
3/19/11

#1) Me, a hedge fund manager!? Seems kind of intimidating. I'm a smart kid and all - smart enough to get into UofM at least. But successful hedge fund managers tend to be more along the lines of 'genius,' don't they? I like the idea of being the manager of a fund of hedge funds and/or private equity funds more. Seems like it'd be a lot less risky. Seems like it'd be lot less genius-intensive. And it seems like it'd be a lot less labor-intensive as well (I don't want to be working 80 hours a week, 50 weeks a year or my whole life). The trade-off is obviously a significant difference in income. But my thinking in that regard is sort of along the lines of..."what can I really do with 400K a year that I can't do with 200K a year."

Well, if you can get all the way from being a Middle-class midwestern kid to being a research guy or trader on Wall Street, you're already 70-75% of the way to what it takes to be a hedge fund manager, logarithmically at least. If you can raise capital to boot, you've probably passed 80-85% of the tests. Being a scrappy kid with a degree from Ross is going to give you *significant* comparative advantages at least around eastern Michigan when it comes to getting people to invest with you. It will be a lot easier for them to trust you- in Detroit- than some guy with a Harvard degree operating out of Stamford CT.

#2) I'm sure I'll feel a lot differently after 4 years of school, and 4 years of work experience...but...how in the he!! do you go about getting a bunch of rich people to put you in charge of their money...and as a 26 year old!? The task of marketing my fund and getting people to give me millions of dollars to invest seems sort of daunting to me right now. Especially with all the stiff competition out there.

I dunno. How do you get to being a "VP" (one of thousands and thousands) at a New York investment bank at the age of 26? In reality, this is the typical promotion pattern. As long as you do a fairly good job, you make Associate/AVP after being an analyst for two years, and make VP after being an associate/AVP for two more years. Meanwhile, you save up a fair amount of money- assuming there are no once-in-80-year crashes.

You're just a college student right now. Four to eight years ago, you were a 14-year-old kid who was afraid to go to the mall without his parents. Now you are getting on planes for on-site interviews. In four years, you'll be a very different person than you are today. Especially coming from a Big Ten school. I'm not sure how things are at Michigan, but I'll be the first to admit that at Illinois, there is a huge sophistication and uhh, lack-of-humility gap vs. the Northeast. If you were at Yale, you wouldn't doubt you could become a hedge fund owner at 26.

I'd also prefer Chicago to NY or SF, if that's possible? And, just to be clear, we're talking about starting off with the best IB I can out of college here, correct?

There are some good trading firms in Chicago. DRW and Citadel come to mind. But quantitative strength would be very helpful, and IMHO is something you can learn if you're willing to try.

3/19/11

It hadn't really occurred to me that 'being one of the people' would be a big advantage for me. Hmm. I like that angle/advantage. And it sounds like my other concerns will probably just sort of take care of themselves along the way.

Thank you very much once again for the thoughtful advice (and the confidence boost!).

Best,

Brady

3/19/11

THEY HAVE HARD ROCK CAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!

3/19/11

Detroit's value to modern America: it provides our 19-to-20-year-olds getting legally hammered in Windsor an okay skyline to look at as they walk from the casino to the hotel.

3/19/11

Are you from Huron or Pioneer? PM me.

In reply to Warhawk_1
3/19/11
Warhawk_1:

Are you from Huron or Pioneer? PM me.

close, I PM-ed you

3/19/11
3/19/11

Chill out Brady... I live about 5 minutes away from Detroit and the way you're coming off isn't helping us.

I just wanted to come in here and say that Detroit is NOT as bad as some of you people think and the fact that people that have never stepped foot in Detroit and are talking shit about it is just retarded. I wouldn't mind living here after college but I don't know if I would actually like it as much as moving to another city. (basically, I fucking hate snow)

I'd always love to be able to come back in the future and do something to help Detroit out, granted the city stops being run by idiots... I'd have to be a BSD to do something meaningful though.

Ernst & Young has offices in Detroit but I doubt you'd be interested in that... not something I will personally overlook but also not something I'm aiming for

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

In reply to wolverine19x89
3/19/11
scottj19x89:

Chill out Brady... I live about 5 minutes away from Detroit and the way you're coming off isn't helping us.

I just wanted to come in here and say that Detroit is NOT as bad as some of you people think and the fact that people that have never stepped foot in Detroit and are talking shit about it is just retarded. I wouldn't mind living here after college but I don't know if I would actually like it as much as moving to another city. (basically, I fucking hate snow)

I'd always love to be able to come back in the future and do something to help Detroit out, granted the city stops being run by idiots... I'd have to be a BSD to do something meaningful though.

Ernst & Young has offices in Detroit but I doubt you'd be interested in that... not something I will personally overlook but also not something I'm aiming for

The snow used to bother me as well, but I've gotten over it. Now I just hit the indoor driving ranges a ton, play a lot of pick-up hockey, play a lot of pick-up basketball, bowl a lot, and hit the gym like a mad man in the winters. It makes you appreciate the other three wonderful seasons we have here that much more anyways.

Bing's probably the best mayor we've had in the post-Coleman era. That'll improve. Shame Illitch never ran though. People would've come out in droves for him.

Thanks for the E&Y shout. I think that I'm going to focus my research mostly on distressed debt-fields, and possibly starting an independent asset management firm though.

3/19/11

Ah yes... pond hockey, maybe the one thing that will prevent me from moving to a place without snow. I'm fine with snow up north or at sledding hills, but retarded drivers + snow = danger.

Oh, n the only reason I know that E&Y is in Detroit is because of the camera shots around the Joe Louis arena that they show on FSD during Wings games lol.... I'm sure there's more stuff in Detroit than I'm aware of

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

3/19/11

Questor and Huron have the largest AUM for PE in MI. There's a large difference between those two, as well, with Questor being significantly larger.

3/20/11

You guys need to keep in mind that New York still has winter- with hockey and ice skating and skiing- it's just about ten degrees milder and a month shorter. Summers with hang gliding, diving, and time out on Martha's Vineyard are about a month or two longer.

3/20/11

i appreciate your efforts, but things like hang gliding, cold-water diving and martha's vineyard don't really appeal to me. if i have to go to ny though, i'm sure i'll find some fun things to do...i probably just won't spend a lot of time with my co-workers outside of the office (which might be a problem)

3/20/11

How cheap are Tigers tickets?

Serious question, I haven't been able to get to a Red Sox game without giving up my left arm for years now.

3/20/11

I don't know...are you an actual baseball fan...or a typical obnoxious loud mouth red sox fan that doesn't know shit about baseball?

3/20/11

For a single game you can get a single Tigers ticket for around $10, but you'd be in the bleachers. I think the highest priced tickets are around $70-75.

In reply to ThaVanBurenBoyz
3/20/11
ThaVanBurenBoyz:

Questor and Huron have the largest AUM for PE in MI. There's a large difference between those two, as well, with Questor being significantly larger.

Questor doesn't really exist anymore. When Jay Alix sold Alix partners a new fund was never raised. Most of the people stayed in the area and either joined other shops or opened their own.

Three of the senior Questor team members are now Black Eagle.

3/20/11

Ah okay, I was wondering why I had never heard of them before. I just pulled that info from a database.

3/20/11

Anyone aware of anything in Southeast Michigan? Holland and Grand Rapids aren't exactly dirt poor areas of the country.

In reply to IlliniProgrammer
3/20/11
IlliniProgrammer:

You guys need to keep in mind that New York still has winter- with hockey and ice skating and skiing- it's just about ten degrees milder and a month shorter. Summers with hang gliding, diving, and time out on Martha's Vineyard are about a month or two longer.

Yeah I know but New York doesn't seem like a place I would like to settle down in... somewhere in California seems like a place I would like to. I would really like to get a job in NY and see if it would be a nice place to live but California/Vegas were awesome when I went... Florida seemed like it would be nice but jesus it's humid.

Now that I mention it, are there any boutiques/anything in Vegas? I don't want to live there but I haven't heard anything about it...

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

3/20/11

All cities will have their unique plusses and minuses, and as such will appeal to different people. Also, no city, especially large ones, can be classified as one entity. I'm sure living in downtown Detroit in a trendy yuppie neighborhood is totally different than living in the ghetto, is totally different than living in a posh suburb, yet they are all "Detroit".

Still, in a variety of quantifiable measures, Detroit doesn't do as well as most other large cities in America, and that's statistics, not subjective. That does not mean that Detroit can't be a great place to live, just that, on average, most objective individuals would choose to be elsewhere. As such, it's not surprising that most of the top-paying financial jobs tend to be located in other cities. A lot of this is also cultural/historical, cities like NY and Chicago have been financial hubs for centuries.

I find your petulant rants amusing. If anything, I think it's funny that you don't recognize that maybe there are things that might be a happy medium for you. For example I live in Philly, a city with probably not the best rep but definitely a better rep than Detroit. In fact, Philly has a lot of really high paying financial jobs but has a lot more of a "real" feel like what I assume you like about Detroit. Lol if you mix NYC and Detroit you basically get Philly. Now, if you say that "oh well but my gf, family, friends", etc. then you need to recognize that what you really like is your small social circle within Detroit, not so much the city itself (this is probably the case, you just don't realize it).

Consultant to a Fortune 50 Company

3/20/11
3/21/11

Illini -

I heard a contrasting opinion to yours in regards to how I should go about starting PWM career. This individual told me that it would be a mistake to start off in New York (Chicago, San Francisco, etc.) if I wanted to end up working in Detroit, because the most important factor in starting off a successful PWM career is building a large 'local' network...which I wouldn't be able to do if I was outside of Michigan.

Response?

3/21/11

Probably coming from someone with two or three years of experiencein PWM not in New York.

Look, this might be a great strategy for Chicago or or San Francisco where there are PWM jobs that also involve some asset management responsibilities. But they're going to be a lot harder to find in Detroit if that is your ultimate destination.

If you spend two years in research at an NYC BB, you get to bring a huge comparative advantage to clients. Sure, they've got a guy who knows what he's doing as a general asset manager, but you spent three years covering Energy at Morgan Stanley. Maybe he gives $10 million to his go-to financial advisor for everything else, and you become his go-to-guy for managing the energy portion of his portfolio to the tune of $1 million.

We're in an increasingly technical and specialized world. And clients don't want one generalist managing their portfolio- they want five, maybe ten specialists, all working to custom-tailor a portfolio for them based on their risk tolerance. Edward Jones' Detroit office can't offer that, but if you've got a CFA and sector specific knowledge, there's clearly a place for you in every wealthy client's portfolio- simply for the fact that few other folks in Detroit have your specialized background.

3/21/11

Haha i just showed this thread to my friend from Detroit and he is laughing his ass off, no one likes Detroit but you. Thank god you live in Detroit so the rest of us in the real financial world never have to encounter you. You are all that is wrong with humanity, you are the most insecure non-troll who has ever posted on WSO. Wow is all i have to say. And you are fucking high if you think Detroit is more laid back than Ft. Worth or any other city in the south (excluding Dallas). Please do everyone a favor, stay in Detroit, wearing Ed Hardy, slamming Jager bombs and talking shit to the "yuppie pussies" who come in on business and fuck your girl cause they don't drive a 89 Accord.

3/21/11

You don't even have to leave the Midwest to find more laid-back cities. Milwaukee and Minneapolis come to mind, both of which have noticeably larger deal/finance communities compared to Detroit.

In reply to ThaVanBurenBoyz
3/21/11
ThaVanBurenBoyz:

You don't even have to leave the Midwest to find more laid-back cities. Milwaukee and Minneapolis come to mind, both of which have noticeably larger deal/finance communities compared to Detroit.

the twin cities = yuppie central

In reply to IlliniProgrammer
3/21/11
IlliniProgrammer:

Probably coming from someone with two or three years of experiencein PWM not in New York.

Look, this might be a great strategy for Chicago or or San Francisco where there are PWM jobs that also involve some asset management responsibilities. But they're going to be a lot harder to find in Detroit if that is your ultimate destination.

If you spend two years in research at an NYC BB, you get to bring a huge comparative advantage to clients. Sure, they've got a guy who knows what he's doing as a general asset manager, but you spent three years covering Energy at Morgan Stanley. Maybe he gives $10 million to his go-to financial advisor for everything else, and you become his go-to-guy for managing the energy portion of his portfolio to the tune of $1 million.

We're in an increasingly technical and specialized world. And clients don't want one generalist managing their portfolio- they want five, maybe ten specialists, all working to custom-tailor a portfolio for them based on their risk tolerance. Edward Jones' Detroit office can't offer that, but if you've got a CFA and sector specific knowledge, there's clearly a place for you in every wealthy client's portfolio- simply for the fact that few other folks in Detroit have your specialized background.

I'm sorry...I didn't really even realize that there were significant differences between PWM and asset management. Could you please elaborate on those for me a little bit. I get what you are saying about the specialization aspect...but I'd probably be able to better respond after learning a little bit more about these differences.

3/21/11

Brady you might have more pride for Detroit than the people do for there school in the Rutgers V Harvard thread...this isn't healthy maybe YOU should see a shrink

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

In reply to HFFBALLfan123
3/21/11
HFFBALLfan123:

Haha i just showed this thread to my friend from Detroit and he is laughing his ass off, no one likes Detroit but you. Thank god you live in Detroit so the rest of us in the real financial world never have to encounter you. You are all that is wrong with humanity, you are the most insecure non-troll who has ever posted on WSO. Wow is all i have to say. And you are fucking high if you think Detroit is more laid back than Ft. Worth or any other city in the south (excluding Dallas). Please do everyone a favor, stay in Detroit, wearing Ed Hardy, slamming Jager bombs and talking shit to the "yuppie pussies" who come in on business and fuck your girl cause they don't drive a 89 Accord.

you strike me as a loser that takes a lot of shit in the real world bc you are a pussy...and then assaults random people on the internet to vent your frustrations. you should probably see a shrink.

also...one person not liking detroit = i'm the only person who likes detroit!? you sound smart. and fyi - bc i'm guessing that you're still in school or just starting in finance - attractive women, that aren't prostitutes, don't have one night stands with ugly rich men. they might marry you, fuck good looking poor men on the side, and then move to the beach with said good looking poor man and half of your bank account. but no amount of money will ever make a woman want to "fuck" you. steal from you, sure. but fuck you, no. sorry. they still prefer good looking men that make 60k a year for that. you'll find out all about this in due time though.

In reply to bfin
3/21/11
blackfinancier:

Brady you might have more pride for Detroit than the people do for there school in the Rutgers V Harvard thread...this isn't healthy maybe YOU should see a shrink

yup, i was just reading an article about how being very happy with your surroundings is a serious mental illness now. they're going to add it to the dmv.

3/21/11

I like how you're constantly criticizing people for generalizations about Detroit, and then follow that up with generalizations about that person, other cities, etc. Well done. Pretty good sign you're still a child, as you're having a lot of trouble formulating coherent points.

Pages

What's Your Opinion? Comment below:

Login or register to get credit (collect bananas).
All anonymous comments are unpublished until reviewed. No links or promotional material will be allowed. Most comments are published within 24 hours.
WallStreet Prep Master Financial Modeling