Midlevel- MBA
We all know that an MBA from a top 15 school can offer tremendous possibilities for a career, and that lesser schools, because of a lack of OCR, reputation or whatnot, don't h=offer the same possibilities. But what about business schools ranked in the 25-75 range? How much better is their recruiting than lesser schools and is it really worth it to go to a school ranked 50th if it's a thousand miles away over a school ranked 100th that's right next door.
Is one more regional? Is the academic quality better and the ticket to a better job?
Please discuss.
Well, outside the top 15 all schools become regional. If you want work in the region of the 100th ranked school then I don't see a reason for you to go to a 50th ranked school. Just go to that 100th one and make a prayer that you get a good job once you graduate.
Don't bother with anything outside top 25. Top 10 does offer "tremendous possibilities". There are many fantastic schools in 10-25 but most will not be life changers. Beyond that you'd be an outlier if you actually got your money's worth. Rule of thumb is that one should go to the highest ranked school that they get into. Distance/family/girlfriend/friends shouldn't drag you down more than 5 spots on the rankings.
Keep in mind that for the most part, the academic quality is not the major differentiating factor. The valuation they teach you at say Wharton is not going to be much different than the one at UCLA. The difference is the reputation, OCR, alumni, etc.
(I'm assuming you're talking just U.S schools and are looking for jobs in the U.S)
You will probably have plenty of OCR at any school, it's just a matter of what firms and what jobs they are recruiting for.
If you wouldn't mind sharing what school you have in mind and what your career goals are, you will probably get much better feedback.
Regards
Thanks all for the responses, they have definitely been helpful so far.
Let me explain a little of who I'am
I recently graduated from Florida State University with a 3.3 gpa in economics. I' am no all star, i' am aware of this, but I'm not sure i want to work in the northeast, let alone an investment bank. The MBA I'm considering is the Rollins College Crummer MBA, where the average gmat score is 600 and the average age of new entrants is 23.
Regarding top 15 mbas, TBH i'am not sure i have what it takes to get into a top 30 mba let alone a t top 15. I haven't taken the gmat yet but i'am not anticipating good results(I have test anxiety).
I figure the Rollins mba was designed for people like me, underachievers who who come from a relatively wealthy family and are just trying to attain that first job in business. However the website doesn't list anything about OCR but does list companies where recent mba graduates have found jobs, which makes me think they don't have any at all, but I could be wrong
Do some research. I did a lot of this for undergrad schools, you should definitely be doing this for grad. Questions to ask:
-Who recruits at the school? (should be posted somewhere on the grad business school's site) -What positions do they recruit for? (be careful with this, some of the schools will list "investment banking", but they mean operations, not front office) -Are people getting jobs straight out of their grad programs?
Finally, make sure to pay attention to the metrics they use to come up with their numbers. A lot of the schools like to fudge what their exits are by messing with how they present the data.
You will regret a Rollins MBA. A program with average WE
[quote=happypantsmcgee]You will regret a Rollins MBA. A program with average WE GMAT and do an MSF to get that "first business job". You don't come off as somebody who'd want to do banking so MSF might actually be perfect for you. Also, don't think of yourself as an "underachiever". Just wake up one day and start achieving. It's all a state of mind.
As wise man once said: "When I get sick I stop and be awesome instead". If you forget the comedy context in which he said this you'll be surprised to find how deep this statement is.
well, wso mentality is toward trying ass off to get the best possible and being persistent as a pure motherfucker...
im not sure if op fits the criteria
Pay me the $80k+ you will probably drop on attending this shitty school and I will set you up with a job that would be the equivalent (if not better) of what you'll get upon graduating. My ops network is as vast as the pool of mediocrity that is Rollins MBA alumni.
@EngBanker Thanks for the quote, its nice to meet good people on these websites :D.just curious why would an msf be perfect for me? is it because it's focused on asset management? that is an area I would love to work in.
@CaliforniaAnalyst I'am persistent, a hardwoker and i'am willing to make the best out of situation that's why I'am asking the question and being honest in my answers.
@ Flake LOL
F-L-O-R-I-D-A S-T-A-T-E, Florida State, Florida State, Florida State, woooooooohhh!!!
I have to agree that the Rollins MBA won't be particularly helpful...at least I don't see how. As a fellow Noles fan, it pains me to tell you that a good/great option for you might be to do the MSF program at UF...yeah, I know, that really hurts...a lot.
From what I've seen in the past and ANT or his alter ego TNA can better speak to the quality of the program, but I think it gets decent recruiting opportunities. I've known of a few undergrads that do the joint program and they get looks from some decent banks. My guess is the program would be more beneficial than an MBA program but I do think Rollins actually gets some respect in south Florida.
Part of figuring out where you want to go, if anywhere, is figuring out what you want to be doing. Check out some of ANT's posts/responses about MSF programs and give some thought as to which would be more beneficial for you.
Regards
I have thought about the MSF at UF and trust me, if i thought i was a good candidate i would opt for it. They put their new students' resumes directly on the site and no one of them has a gpa under 3.6 or an gmat score under about 670. I'am looking for a more realistic alternative. By comparison the MSF at UIUC has an average gpa right around mine(3.3) and gmat scores average around 670 so I'm looking more at those options, but I've heard that they're regional or some don't have recruiting at all.
I would love to work in AM or operations.
BTW GO NOLES!!! dammit Luke Loucks for turning the ball over 3 times in the last 2 minutes against Cincinnati!
If you go to a top-25-75 ranked school your job hunting will be entirely on your own if you do decide to pursue a career on Wall Street. You won't have a single bank come to recruit on campus. It makes the odds that much harder.
People at lower ranked MBA programs usually continue to work, have employee reimbursement or something else. Who the hell is going to a 75th ranked program, FT, paying out of pocket??
why don't you try your ass off to score 720+ gmat in 3 months and then ask the question again?
Lower Ranked Business School (Originally Posted: 10/26/2015)
I'll be honest... I don't have the grades or GRE scores to get into a top 20 program...I just don't.
I'm thinking about applying to some 30-80 ranked schools....
My pay right now is a lousy $34,000 a year... My feelings are sure I won't land a 6 figure job like if I got into a top 20 program.... But Im hoping maybe I could double that salary with a 30-80 ranked program....
I have heard the argument don't bother if it's outside top 25...But with my low pay it can't hurt right?
Also what are your thoughts on some of these other things that interest me.
MHR- My background is mostly HR related...I've thought about going MHR instead but heard it's not worth it at all and that it's not in demand.
MSIS or IT- I used to work at an IT staffing company and found the IT field very interesting.
MRE- My other experience is in real estate. I am not sure that I would want something so focused right now and have heard it's hard to land a job in it.
I know what many are going to say. Don't just go for more money or wait till you know for sure. TBH I think I would be happy with either. I'm trying to figure out what way to best incorporate these 3. As mentioned my experience involves all 3 of those which is good because all 3 of those interest me.
If I go HR route goal will be to become an HR Director and eventually open an a staffing company If I go Real Estate goal will be in Investing, and selling and possibly Developing If I go IT goal will be to be an Agile Project Manager.
Long term goal is to be an entrepreneur but I want experience first.... Retirement goal is to teach at like community college with the masters degree level just because I have done a teaching internship as well as being a teaching assistant for a year.
The MBA programs I am planning to apply to are Minnesota, Iowa, Georgia, Oklahoma, and Arizona St. (an other recommendations) on a 30-80 would be appreciated as well!
I know this post is all over the place, but I just need some advice.... I really don't want to be making $34k the rest of my life and well my undergrad was in English..So I feel like I need more credentials.
What are you currently doing? Are you doing exempt-level HR work? If so I would study for the PHR certification or really any certification (think Certified Employee Benefits Specialist) so that way you could get a job more related to HR that pays more.
Honestly, I would say go the Masters in Information Science if I were you. Don't waste the MBA yet. The MS in IS is going to help you develop technical skills which you can then continue into HR Staffing (IT and Tech Workers) or Tech Recruiting, or you could go a more technology based role in project management.
If you want to go project management look into the CAPM (Certified Associate in Project Management) pretty easy to get, no exp. req. and you will be able to open up the door to step in to a Ass. Project Manager or Project Assistant role at a IT firm. OR once again it could hep you get into more high level IT Staffing/Recruiting.
Try not to have such a negative attitude... I think that's a lot of them problem here.
Why not leverage your experience in HR and try to make a jump to another company. HR is very much needed when it comes to big, hefty corporations. You should give HR another shot - especially since it seems to be your pay that has you down and not the actual work.
The avg salary at some of the school's you mentioned are over $100K. I wouldn't consider the MBA a waste.
Minneapolis has 18 Fortune 500 companies locally and places very well, and I'm pretty sure that I just read that ASU is offering it's MBA for free from now on.
Where are you from, what are you doing, and where do you want to be?
MHR is terrible. Don't do it.
ASU is using some money that was donated to them to give a select few students a full ride, they're hoping that will bring in better talent. So I don't think that scholarship will last that long.
The "Where do you want to end up" question is very important.
The decent but not that high ranked programs you mention will likely have decent placement, but ONLY for companies near the school. You listed some very geographically disparate schools, so I would try to tone that down some.
Also agree with some other posters who suggest some other useful options that will let you save the MBA; with more experience (plus more time to take GMAT/GRE), you could definitely end up at a better program in a few years than you could get into now.
I'm not as bearish on national propsects with schools in this band. It'll vary, and going to career fairs can change your fortunes greatly. I went to a "regional school" that sent about a third of the class out of the region, including both coasts.
A buddy of mine at Illinois just got offers to USAA (Texas) BOA (NC) and Intel (AZ).
edit: -
HR sucks?
You do know that CHRO's pull in 7 figure comp packages with the majority of them coming from non-targets and backgrounds that would make a BB IBD MD throw up in his mouth.
At the VP level you can expect mid to high 6 figure comp packages and working on pretty cool stuff: strategic talent management, recruitment of top talent, labor law and some pretty cool training implementation.
Best part, extremely under-saturated because when people think HR they think HR admins. 80% of the HR force is women, 80% of VP/Director level HR employers are men. Seems like better odd's than making MD or above at a BB bank.
You seem like a swell and upstanding guy
Hah, in this market? It's probably itoo[/i] easy to find a job and I hope there isn't a mass downsizing in the next market downturn.
That said, real estate finance and development isn't something you just kind of meander into. You really do need a passion for it and hiring managers use that passion as a weeding out process. It's fairly obvious who cares and who is just there to punch the clock.
I currently work at clinical research staffing firm. Before this I was working at an IT staffing firm. I definitely enjoy the IT lingo a lot more. That is what would make me say HR is most of my experience. Before this while in college I did a real estate internship and worked at a real estate company.
UTDFinance guy thanks for the input. I actually have gotten some books and thought about studying and taking the CAPM. I'm also thinking about one of SHRM certifications or at least joining.
One of the reasons Im considering applying to ASU is just because of the free tuition (I think this one I have a very slim chance of getting in for though because I can see they value work experience a lot.)
guys im not interested in IB....it's not an option for me....I told you guys my interests and my background..I don't want to go into IB or HF etc... Still trying to decide which would provide the most job opportunities. As mentioned I make $34,000 right now and would like to make around $70k or so by the time I get out. (fairly certain all these options would lead to that)
It's either MHR MRE/MRED MSIS/MIT MBA
A couple of things:
As far as an MBA goes, until you transition to a higher level of responsibility in your current role, whether you like it or not, I wouldn't go for an MBA. It also doesn't sound like you'd know what you want to do until you actually got to b-school. I see a potential problem here: if you plan on going to an outside the top 25 school, you'd have to hustle the day you set foot on campus. Hell, some people would say sooner. Long story short, in order to hustle and network properly you'd have to know what it is you're looking to do.
With that in mind, I'd take some time to really figure out what you want to do. Since it seems to be between IT and Real Estate, why don't get some coursera classes or even buy some of the financial modeling classes here on WSO and figure out if that's the type of work you want to do. Like CRE said, you just don't really stumble into the CRE industry.
I've ruled out HR. It's between RE, IT, and MBA
You have risks of listening to some of the IB aspirants who don't care about your profession.
I won't smack the HR IT RE or MBA, but I say you should choose on your needs. Removing living cost adjustments, $34000 is awfully low, yes. I mean if you incur any sizable debt and you could risk bankruptcy. However, it does reduce your opportunity cost for full-time degrees that you forgo 1/2 of typical full-timer's salary.
now: HR, IT and RE are more field-specific. It's the same across nearly everything except MBA. narrow-focus, high concentration, and that's more do-able for an entry technical job. Don't expect management positions just because it's an MBA. It'll feed you the acumen, and if you find a right program, the alums may be in a firm you want to be in.
Where the degrees are worth is hard to say. on your spot, it's not too shabby to double your post-MBA salary, and you don't need top MBA / top MBA can't triple for you either. But make sure at least it's regionally respected as a solid brand, and that you see many alums from that program in roles that you want to be.
If you're unsure, just do part-time degrees. The same game rules apply regarding major, schools. You can save some money by not quitting day job, but you do have to suffer on weekends or nights to get the coursework done, plus any additional networking packages you may see.
Why not start a side staffing business or go right into it. Staffing is all sales. Just start networking and getting to know people.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll definitely start looking at some part time programs as well
Where do you want to work? The schools seem fairly random, I'd probably look at some of the Texas schools, like Mays and Rice, although they maybe tougher, I'd also throw in some SEC and ACC schools like UF, UM, UGA, Clemson, USC. If you get in and can attend cheaply these might be a good deal. Obviously, these schools vary tremendously and you'll have to hustle and network, but you should be able to get an F500 job. Also I wouldn't say the top 20 are entirely out, break a 650 and execute well, you might get in to one or two.
I have done what was recommended above...Went and bought some Udemy classes so I can narrow down my interest areas.
THanks for the feedback guys
that's good thing you're doing.
I'll be a bit more critical since your budget is already small - why pay for Udemy but not MOOCs? If it's just for gauging interests, take the nonCertificate MOOC option is free on Coursera, EdX and peers.
How much important is the location of a MBA school if not top 10 (Originally Posted: 12/19/2014)
Im thinking about going to a local MBA program and it is surrounded by a lot of HF. Would it be worth it to go Pace or Sacred Heart, if I was looking to get into HF?
Currently a Performance Analyst
To answer the title, location is important even in the top 10, I think most people lose sight of this. As for your question in the thread, unless those programs specifically recruit at Hedge Funds, I doubt they would provide any value.
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