The Truth about Piper Jaffray and MM Banks

Hi, I know that middle market banks get a lot of bad press on this site. Obviously, most of the people posting are just college students who think that the world of banking is Goldman Sachs or bust. I would love to hear some real (honest) insight from someone who knows and is not speculating as to what working at a Middle Market Bank really entails. How is the comp as you work your way up? Is it similar to BBs then trailing off as you move up the ranks? How much does an average MD in banking earn at one of these banks? Are the exit opps really as bad as some kids like to crack them up to be? I'd love to hear some insight and I think it would be a valuable wakeup call to a lot of people on this site. Thanks for your knowledge in advance.

 
Best Response

Piper Jaffray is an amazing middle market bank, I don't know what fools that are still in high school or from non-targets are saying about it. You work with great people from top schools and they give you a lot of responsibility early on in your analyst career which is exactly what you want coming out of undergrad. The comp is comparable to BB banks at all levels and it's probably even higher given that they want to attract talent away from bigger banks. Not too clear about exit opps, but I know they place well at H/S/W, just look at the management on their website.

If you have an offer from them, I wouldn't hesitate to sign on. They won't hesitate to move on to the other tens of hungry kids vying for it.

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MM banks like Piper can be great place to get more meaningful experience and better exposure early in your career than is possible at BBs. I've worked at both. Take a look at what the co-head of tech/media/telecom IB at Piper says about MM vs BB. He answers a lot of your questions.

Differences between bulge bracket and growth investment banks - http://bit.ly/Yzp8y

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MurdersNExecutions:
I know someone who worked as an analyst at PJC for 3 years, went to HBS and then became a VP at a BB. I would really think twice before disregarding it.

Your friend most certainly did not get hired by a BB firm as a VP directly out of business school. Perhaps he/she was hired as an Associate and was later promoted to VP.

Analyst at PJC -> MBA -> Associate at a BB -> promoted up through the ranks is a completely feasible path.

 
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monkey3030:
MurdersNExecutions:
I know someone who worked as an analyst at PJC for 3 years, went to HBS and then became a VP at a BB. I would really think twice before disregarding it.

Your friend most certainly did not get hired by a BB firm as a VP directly out of business school. Perhaps he/she was hired as an Associate and was later promoted to VP.

Analyst at PJC -> MBA -> Associate at a BB -> promoted up through the ranks is a completely feasible path.

I thought it was obvious that's what I meant. I was pointing out that even though PJC is considered by many to be, well, PJC - HBS and eventually VP at a BB are all feasible exit opps.

 
nontargetguy:
What's the joke about piper? It sucks is that it?

A popular blog (Leveraged Sell Out - very funny) made fun of Piper Jaffray in one if its stories. Most of the college students on this board only know about banking through the internet and are now convinced that it is an IB that sucks. In the reall world of course it doesn't suck.

 
EuropeanBob:
nontargetguy:
What's the joke about piper? It sucks is that it?

A popular blog (Leveraged Sell Out - very funny) made fun of Piper Jaffray in one if its stories. Most of the college students on this board only know about banking through the internet and are now convinced that it is an IB that sucks. In the reall world of course it doesn't suck.

Where does Piper Jaffray recruit at and what kind of kids work there? I'm guessing a lot of non targets?

 

I work at a boutique in san fran that no one probably has heard of, and many of us are happy. We are selective too and only take a few out of the many applications we get. Banking as an industry is just hard in general to break into no matter where it is and its quite easy to move from boutiques to BB's or anywhere else. I am thinking of moving to a few BB's actually and I may even decide to go for harvard, wharton or stanford for MBA instead. Investment banking is rigorous and MBA's definitely like that, whether it be from Goldman Sachs or Piper Jaffray.

 

I have pretty mixed feelings on this issue - on one hand, I realize at a BB, one might feel they can easily get lost in the shuffle given the sheer size of most groups / number of people in analyst or associate classes. However, I'm currently at a MM shop and I can tell you, flat out, that everyone in my group would rather be at a BB bank or at the very least, an elite boutique.

It may just be my group though, as we're notorious for working long hours, doing lots of pitching (unfortunately, with little deal flow) and having the worst senior bankers, so take my comments for what they're worth.

If you want to talk more on the issue, PM me as I'd be glad to give you some more insights.

 

The impression I've gotten from interviewing at a number of MM shops is that there are often big variation within groups. While BBs definitely have more desirable groups, pretty much all groups are going to have dealflow and a fairly predictable experience. It seems like there can be a lot more variation at MM shops with some groups having a great culture and dealflow and others having you pitch all the time to work on a 10mm PIPE.

 

It all has to do with deal size. smaller deals are no easier than large deals, so each bank has to choose its sweet spot. A huge place like MS simply can't afford to expend resource on a smaller fee deal. It would lose money because the output would be the same for a smaller fee. MM banks are simply set up in order to make money on the smaller deals. And those banks will have their bar as well. Fewer people will work at a MM bank than a BB bank, so when revenues are split into bonuses, the amounts are often comparable to the largest banks.

For anyone who thinks MM banks are a joke, you should try interviewing for a slot there. When you are summarily rejected then I dare say the joke won't seen quite as funny.

I understand though, that this convo is mainly about exit opportunities - I think there's a slight advantage to having worked at a BB in terms of interviewing, but I think not as much as people would suspect. If you know your shit, have interesting deals to talk about and network well, then you should be fine. Myself, I always watch out for people with "golden ticket" syndrome. These are people who think that somehow, due to their station in life, things are now all good and the hard work is over. Those people do not get called back for 2nd looks.

 
nontargetguy:
ew piper jaffray :(

I don't get you. You go to nontarget(?) {assuming by your name} and is a prospective but talk a very big game and hate upon companies that probably wouldn't even give you looks.

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hug It Out
 

There's nothing wrong with MM banks or boutiques. I mean think about it, there are only say 10 or so BB banks (GS, BoA, JPM, CS, UBS, WF, Citi, Barcap, MS, Deutsche) and if you only count U.S. spots, there aren't that many. Boutiques and MM's are great ways to get some deal experience though you should do your research first since you don't want to be sitting there pitching all day at a regional bank making 60k + 20k bonus.

At the end of the day, banking is banking and breaking into the industry alone is hard so it makes no sense to make fun of firms like PJ or Jefferies or Guggenheim when at the end of the day they are still taking top applicants. I work at a non-elite boutique and trust me the kids here are very qualified from top schools and it's very competitive to get a job.

 

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