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Unpaid Internship - How much is too much?
 

Jordan622's picture
IB
 
Points)
 on 6/27/10 at 10:38pm
zero-dollar-bill.jpg

Hey,

Just some background information: I am interested in Commercial Real Estate career. Last September I landed an unpaid internship with a big commercial real estate firm. I was working with their brokers doing property pro formas/ database, lease abstracting, etc. I worked roughly 15-20 hours a week for them. However, in may this group of brokers left the firm to start their own full service firm. They asked me to come with them. I saw this as a great opportunity and accepted. They told me that once they started closing transactions they would start paying me, but until they had some cash flow I would be unpaid.

I am currently working 30 hours a week for them UNPAID. I just graduated and have not been able to find many companies hiring in CRE. They keep telling me they want to talk to me about being a full time employee and how I need to get my Salespersons license so I can start showing properties etc but I am still not being paid.

I guess you can call me an optimist, as I believe all this slave work I do for them will eventually pay off. But am I fooling myself? Am I just being used? I see this is a great opportunity to get into the industry, climb the ladder fast, etc but maybe I am kidding myself. They keep telling me they want me etc etc, but am I losing my manhood by being their 'bitch'? Should I just lay down the law with them and tell them I need a paying job ASAP or I am out or suck it up another month or two until they decide to finally start paying me?

Thanks

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TNA's picture

I would use all this awesome

O
(Human, 13,533
 
Points)
 on 6/27/10 at 11:51pm

I would use all this awesome experience and start applying all over the place. Frankly, I would go do something else, intern somewhere else and tell them you gotta pay the bills. They are adults and should understand that a person cannot work for free forever.

What they SHOULD do is at least offer you $7-10 bucks and hour just to give you something to live off of with the agreement of a retroactive bonus when things pick up. It is pretty dumb on their part. They are investing all this time in you and are potentially going to be losing a trained and quality analyst.

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proforma's picture

I pulled an all-nighter once

AM
 
Points)
 on 6/27/10 at 11:52pm

I pulled an all-nighter once for my unpaid internship. Never turned into a FT job (or any money). I worried about being abused too so I quit. It will be hard for ppl to determine the likely hood of conversion without being in your exact situation.

I would try to figure it they really are making any money. If they are and are still not paying you, then quit. If there not, its really up to you how much you believe them and how long you can survive w/o a paycheck.

youknow's picture

I mean 30 hours isn't really

O
 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 12:37am

I mean 30 hours isn't really bad at all. I'd stick it out unless you have something else lined up.

prospie's picture

Commercial real estate?

(King Kong, 1,681
 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 8:57am

Commercial real estate? Consider yourself lucky to be getting any experience right now, much less getting paid. However, like Anthony said, try to use this exp to land some interviews and get an offer for a paid analyst gig. If that fails, then you have a better idea of where you stand in the market.

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gaels22's picture

to be fair, these guys don't

 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 9:49am

to be fair, these guys don't get paid until they close deals. i've worked at a top manhattan brokerage before - you would be surprised how many guys weren't making anything in this market. get them to sponsor your license, and start hitting the ground yourself. every broker starts at the very bottom with zero salary or a very very low draw

Nobama88's picture

Believe me I am grateful that

RE
(King Kong, 1,676
 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 11:05am

Believe me I am grateful that I am getting experience in this market, that is why I have been working for them for almost a year unpaid. And no, 30 hours is not bad but considering I need to make rent every month that is potentially $300+ a week I am losing out on from just a regular job. My bank account is getting very low, thus I start questioning if what I am doing will ever pay off.

Looks like the best bet is to get them to sponsor me on my license and start trying to get some deals done.

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Malakari's picture

You didn't mention you've

IB
(Orangutan, 251
 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 11:11am

You didn't mention you've been unpaid for almost a year, thats pretty ridiculous. Do they offer anything at all? (meals, etc..)

Nobama88's picture

I worked for these guys at

RE
(King Kong, 1,676
 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 11:19am

I worked for these guys at their old firm since last September, roughly 15-20 hours a week/ unapid. In May, they started their own firm and asked me to come along with them and now I am working roughly 30 hours a week for them. So, almost a year.

I did receive credit for school from September to December, and they buy me lunch every now and then but thats all...

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gaels22's picture

what type of brokerage are

 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 11:27am

what type of brokerage are you interested in? leasing, investment sales, financing.. etc. i know that cushman was looking for analysts for their consulting group. my other piece of advice is to network your butt off. real estate in particular is all about who you know. go through your school directory and see who is in the industry and reach out to them

Nobama88's picture

I am interested in the

RE
(King Kong, 1,676
 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 11:39am

I am interested in the investment and development (non existant atm) side of CRE. I have applied to Cushman for both their analyst roles in NY.

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moneyneversleeps2's picture

I would stick it out and try

IB
(Orangutan, 256
 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 11:46am

I would stick it out and try to find evening/weekend work like front desk agent at a hotel. They usually pay about $12 an hour and you get 10% extra for overnight shifts. You'll have 0 social life for a good 6 months but if you really want your spot on the street, you'll do whatever it takes to get it.
No matter what Bloomberg says, hiring on Wall St isn't anywhere near what it used to be. Even if the internship is unpaid, by September you'll have a years worth of experience and licenses.

Kools's picture

Nobama88 wrote: I worked for

O
 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 12:15pm
Nobama88:

I worked for these guys at their old firm since last September, roughly 15-20 hours a week/ unapid. In May, they started their own firm and asked me to come along with them and now I am working roughly 30 hours a week for them. So, almost a year.

I did receive credit for school from September to December, and they buy me lunch every now and then but thats all...

..... so you multi-account as Jordan622 and Nobama 88........

Nobama88's picture

Yeah, sorry I should have

RE
(King Kong, 1,676
 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 12:23pm

Yeah, sorry I should have noted that. I lost access to this account so I started Jordan. Obviously I regained access and will stay with this one.

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cphbravo96's picture

Stick with it for now. As

PE
 
Points)
 on 6/28/10 at 2:07pm

Stick with it for now. As another posted suggested, try and find a weekend and/or week night gig that will help put some money in your pocket to offset the lack of pay at the internship. To me it seems as if you have gone too far not to wait just a bit longer.

I would shop around for jobs, work the internship and work the late night gig, all while studying and getting my licenses. You will have a year (+) experience, the license and possibly a job offer. Plus, if you do get an offer, you can go to the guys you are interning with and say, hey, I got a job that's going to pay me and I wish I could stay here because I really like it, etc but I have to go because I just can't manage it anymore. Maybe they will match the offer, maybe they won't.

Just don't leave because you aren't getting paid what you are worth. You have to realize there is a massive amount of unquantifiable future revenue in this internship. I had a similar situation where I interned unpaid for a couple semesters. Paid me for my parking, had sandwiches in the office a couple times a week, but was told that I would receive a stipend if I did a good job. I eventually left for a different internship because the new one was going to give me school credit and eventually pay me (and they told me there would not be a FT offer because they were a new firm, etc). I did both for about a semester and transitioned out of the first and into the second one.

Luckily I left on good terms with the first because their approval and kind words is what landed me my current job. So just don't piss anyone off. Take your ego our of it if necessary and sacrifice a little more to put yourself in a better position going forward, whether its with them or another firm. Good luck.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

team Colliers's picture

Stick with it and be a

O
(Chimp, 1
 
Points)
 on 7/14/10 at 10:19pm

Stick with it and be a sponge...Try to position yourself around the top producer in the office. I began my CRE career with Colliers in the Research Department. After two years of learning the local market and the basics (i.e. building characteristics) as a Research Analyst I transitioned into brokerage. It was discouraging at first as it seemed like my first deal would never come. However, as my network grew along with my client base, I realized how lucky I was to have entered the industry when I did (2007). Because of the sluggish economy and down market senior brokers had free time to dedicate to helping me grow as broker by answering questions, walking me through contracts, introducing me to clients, working deals with me, etc.

Once you get your License you may consider talking to the brokers about you running for them; that is, cold calling for their listings. If you find a potential tenant or buyer (depending on the listing) they can work it with you and pay you a fee. When you appraoch them about becoming a runner I suggest you plan an exit date where you branch off a a runner and become a fully independent.

Javi2's picture

Third (or fourth) vote for

O
(Chimp, 11
 
Points)
 on 7/26/10 at 12:16am
dumbasscollegekid's picture

Since you've been working

 
Points)
 on 7/26/10 at 12:50am

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