8/9/12

Mod note: Best of Eddie, this was originally posted on 8/9/12.

This has me so mad I can't see straight. I'm going to do my dead-level best to ensure this post doesn't turn into a rant. For the most part, I've accepted how ridiculous, arbitrary, corrupt, and often evil the American justice system is. Still, I think it's one of the best in the world. But when it fails, holy shit does it fail.

Take the sad case of this Merrill Lynch broker who had a single Oxycontin pill in his pocket - a buddy had given it to him at a concert and he didn't even take it - and the mess that his life became when he was pulled over hours later. He'd never taken Oxy before, and hadn't planned to take it now. He said he was going to give the pill away. After being assured of a lenient sentence, he was induced to plead No Contest to possession. Then the judge lowered the boom:

Despite having no criminal record and never having taken Oxycontin, James was required to attend two Narcotics Anonymous meetings a week for an entire year, and 15 weekend-long state-run drug classes (the latter he was required to pay for). Despite the fact that he was going to school at night for his MBA, James was given a curfew, and had to be inside his own home between the hours of 9 p.m. and 6 a.m. every day of the week, for the entire year. As a final punishment, the judge instructed James to immediately report his arrest to his employer, and to let his probation officer know when he had done so.

You can guess what comes next. Telling his boss meant an addendum to his U-4 which set off alarm bells at Merrill headquarters, and he was fired two weeks later. Then he discovered just how difficult it is to get hired with his background. Not only because of the No Contest plea, but because his probation officer insisted on calling each company he interviewed with to verify that he'd been there. Now I ask you, how is he going to get hired when HR gets a call from a probation officer?

He ended up working as a fry cook. And his PO screwed him again. She told him that he could be out past curfew as long as he was at work, but didn't tell him he needed the judge's permission. That oversight bought him another two years of probation. He looked for finance work the whole time, but all that accomplished was every private background check company the banks used had a record of his conviction. So even when the record was expunged and technically no longer existed, he still couldn't get a job because now all these private investigators knew about it.

Six years of this guy's life went into the toilet over one pill he didn't even take.

How much longer are we as a country going to allow these sorts of miscarriages of justice? How many more lives have to be ruined for victimless crimes?

There is so much money in Prohibition for everyone involved (cops, judges, lawyers, prison guards, probation officers, drug cartels - don't think for a minute they want drugs legalized) that there is no way the laws are ever going to be overturned unless the people force them to do it. And if the Prohibition against alcohol in the '30s is any indication, this is how we can do it:

A lot of people think alcohol prohibition got repealed just because one day everyone woke up and said, "Hey, that was a really bad idea. Let's get rid of Prohibition." That's not what happened at all. The same rogues gallery of misery profiteers were making money hand over fist and didn't want Prohibition repealed. The people finally had to take charge, and they did it not in the ballot box but in the jury box.

Juries eventually refused to convict anyone of alcohol-related offenses, even if they were caught red-handed and were guilty as sin. This cost judges and prosecutors a ton of money, and their conviction rates went into the toilet. Eventually they did the math and decided that if they weren't going to get convictions anymore, they should just change the law so they could quit looking stupid.

And that, dear friends, is the beauty of jury nullification.

I honestly believe the only way we're going to change drug laws in America is through jury nullification. However, the judges and prosecutors have wised up, and if they even suspect that you're a fully informed juror you'll be thrown out of jury duty so fast it'll make your head spin. What's a fully informed juror? Glad you asked:

The primary function of an independent juror is not, as many people think, to dispense punishment to fellow citizens accused of breaking various laws, but rather to protect fellow citizens from tyrannical abuses of power by the government. The Constitution guarantees you the right to trial by jury. This means that government must bring its case before a jury of The People if government wants to deprive any person of life, liberty, or property. Jurors can say no to government tyranny by refusing to convict.

I realize I'm getting dangerously close to a rant here, and that's not where I want to go. I urge you to look into the Fully Informed Jury Association and download their free handbook on nullification. And as tempting as it is to get out of jury duty, if you're called do your utmost to get seated. If they're trying to convict someone of something ridiculous, regardless of their guilt, vote to acquit. It's the only way we'll get these ridiculous laws overturned.

Because you never know when you might be the guy getting pulled over and losing everything you've worked your whole life for over a pill your buddy gave you. Think about it.

Comments (90)

8/9/12

Extremely terse.

anamerican

8/9/12

Agreed. It's absurd the way we prosecute so many victim-less crimes in this country.

8/9/12

Sucks for that guy. This is the problem with the jury system: only those are too dumb to get out of jury duty actually sit on juries. Lawyers don't like jurists who can reason.

8/9/12

Sacco and Vanzetti classic right here. "Guilty by association." It's as true now as it was back in the day.

8/9/12

Judges in the US are just as corrupt as politicians. Disgraceful human beings.

8/9/12

Disgraceful. I had to stop reading about two-thirds of the way

8/9/12

One of the best solutions I've heard to act on this stupid drug prohibition issue

8/9/12

Something doesn't add up. He was pulled over, and the contents of his pockets came to the officer's attention how? He must have done or said something to give the officer pause (and probable cause) to pull him out of the vehicile and search him.

"An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest" --Ben Franklin

8/9/12
Marzapan:

Something doesn't add up. He was pulled over, and the contents of his pockets came to the officer's attention how? He must have done or said something to give the officer pause (and probable cause) to pull him out of the vehicile and search him.

"The officer who pulled him over said the car smelled like marijuana, and asked to conduct a search. James agreed, because neither he nor his passenger had been using drugs. When his passenger was found to be in possession of a pipe and several screens (but no marijuana), the officer searched James."

8/9/12
mehp:
Marzapan:

Something doesn't add up. He was pulled over, and the contents of his pockets came to the officer's attention how? He must have done or said something to give the officer pause (and probable cause) to pull him out of the vehicile and search him.

"The officer who pulled him over said the car smelled like marijuana, and asked to conduct a search. James agreed, because neither he nor his passenger had been using drugs. When his passenger was found to be in possession of a pipe and several screens (but no marijuana), the officer searched James."

What the hell kind of banker smokes pot? Anyway, this makes more sense. This story is depressing. I hate how easy it is for ridiculous convictions to be made. Something along the lines of this story, or when a girl calls rape when she clearly wasn't. These things scare the hell out of me.

8/9/12
BVMadden:

when a girl calls rape when she clearly wasn't. These things scare the hell out of me.

Possibly one of the scariest things a guy could ever go through, happened to one of my boys.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

8/9/12
mehp:
Marzapan:

Something doesn't add up. He was pulled over, and the contents of his pockets came to the officer's attention how? He must have done or said something to give the officer pause (and probable cause) to pull him out of the vehicile and search him.

"The officer who pulled him over said the car smelled like marijuana, and asked to conduct a search. James agreed, because neither he nor his passenger had been using drugs. When his passenger was found to be in possession of a pipe and several screens (but no marijuana), the officer searched James."

I think what happened to the poor guy is bullshit just as much as the next guy, but in most cases where someone gets screwed over like this, there's at least some bit of reason why they got screwed over. In this case, why are you driving around with some dude who for god knows what reason carries a pipe around with him everywhere he goes? And why is this fucking pill still in your pocket exactly? And not to berate the guy any more than that but... what kind of excuse is "I was gonna give it away" supposed to be? That's literally the equivalent of "I was planning on becoming a drug dealer" and sure hindsight is 20/20 but who would have put it in their pocket for a rainy day instead of just throwing it out the window? He got raped, sure, but not the biggest rape I've ever seen.

I hate victims who respect their executioners

10/15/12

.

8/9/12
BlackHat:

what kind of excuse is "I was gonna give it away" supposed to be? That's literally the equivalent of "I was planning on becoming a drug dealer"

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read that part.

8/9/12
Marzapan:

Something doesn't add up. He was pulled over, and the contents of his pockets came to the officer's attention how? He must have done or said something to give the officer pause (and probable cause) to pull him out of the vehicile and search him.

If you read through the article, apparently the officer claimed to "smell marijuiana" and then proceeded to search the car and found a pipe and screens that belonged to the passenger and thus searched both of them because of it. Regardless, this teaches you to put your career before anything especially any narcotics that you don't have a prescription for. Just don't do it. I'm all for changing the laws regarding narcotics because they are beyond stupid, but you need to steer clear of them until something changes. It simply isn't worth the risk. Period. If people don't realize that by now I can't help them. Lobby for changing, fight for changing it etc but sure as hell take caution or hire a damn good lawyer to bail you out.

8/9/12
Marzapan:

Something doesn't add up. He was pulled over, and the contents of his pockets came to the officer's attention how? He must have done or said something to give the officer pause (and probable cause) to pull him out of the vehicile and search him.

That's what I was thinking. Not to diminish from your point Eddie, but another good rule is don't piss off the cops. They will fuck you over

I'm like one of them marriage counselors. Charge by the hour to tell some fool he needa bring some flowers home. Then charge another hour telling the bitch she oughta suck some cock every little once in a while. Keep a marriage strong like that. -Prop Joe

10/15/12

.

8/9/12

I'm glad you posted this. It helps me remember to stick to the booze when I'm out there raging.

8/9/12

Since Eddie mentioned nullification, I'll sneak this in:

8/9/12

I'd like to point out that I don't think I've ever seen anyone on this site disagree that drugs should be legalized. Maybe I've just skipped over it like so much useless dribble...

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/9/12
D M:

I'd like to point out that I don't think I've ever seen anyone on this site disagree that drugs should be legalized. Maybe I've just skipped over it like so much useless dribble...

That's because anyone who looks at the issue objectively and considers the facts will come to the same conclusion, regardless of what your values are. I would classify myself a solidly right-wing conservative when it comes to social issues, but I come to the exact conclusion as far left liberals on this issue. Legalize it, tax it, and regulate it. There is no logical purpose for making it illegal. The same goes for Mayor Bloomberg's stupid soda ban. The government has no right to ban any product. If what you want to do or buy has a negative tangential affect on society, you should have to pay a proportional tax on it to restore the value taken by your action.

8/9/12
808:

I know, I agree, just saying I think there's a consensus among people with 80+ IQs that drugs should be legal. Except in the south.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/9/12

Agree with all of the above. The drug war's costs have always exceeded the social benefits. Really, where's the harm here? These laws are actually the cause of many of the negative effects of drugs.

(a) Violence - legalization would end the market for cartel products.
(b) Gangs - again, nobody would be selling drugs on the black market if you can just pick them up from a store.
(c) Health risks - Generally overblown, but legalization would help here too. Contaminants would decrease. Dosage instructions would be on the packaging. Chemical concentrations would be standardized. And people wouldn't be afraid to go to the hospital if something happened.
(d) Societal Collapse - Look at countries with liberal drug policies. They seem to be doing alright.
(e) Addiction - Many of the more addictive substance (eg Meth) exist to get around drug laws or are popular due to being relatively cheap.
(f) Think of the children! - Do you see middle school kids sneaking in cigarettes/alcohol? No? So why would any other controlled substance be different.

D M:
808:

I know, I agree, just saying I think there's a consensus among people with 80+ IQs that drugs should be legal. Except in the south.

You can add in an exception for seniors as well. The anti-drug propaganda really seems to have been effective with them - to them, the stoner in Berkeley is poised to turn to a life of crime and violence. Amazingly, these are the same people who probably have oxy/vicodin prescriptions.

8/9/12

One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all
Go ask Alice
When she's ten feet tall
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall
Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call

Let's burn the pages, we'll start anew
8/9/12
Going Concern:

One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all
Go ask Alice
When she's ten feet tall
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall
Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call

A pill to make you numb, a pill to make you dumb, a pill to make you anybody else?

I hate victims who respect their executioners

8/16/12
BlackHat:
Going Concern:

One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all
Go ask Alice
When she's ten feet tall
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall
Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call

A pill to make you numb, a pill to make you dumb, a pill to make you anybody else?

a pull can make u like a tub

8/9/12
Edmundo Braverman:

if they even suspect that you're a fully informed juror you'll be thrown out of jury duty so fast it'll make your head spin.

I noticed this the one and only time I've had jury duty. Was on jury selection for a drug trial. The ADA literally dismissed everyone with an advanced or professional degree as soon as she found out.

8/9/12

If you're going to break the rules....don't get caught. I hate the oppressive nature of the people in charge and even though weed isn't my thing I really don't see what the problem is. His buddy should have told him about the pipe though, putting others at risk isn't cool.

This is why I like restaurants: they're one of those jobs where you can work your way back towards respectible if you fall out of line. Seriously, this guy got screwed, but what the hell kind of lawyer did he have???? WTF

Get busy living

8/9/12

My first year of college I got a Minor in Possession of alcohol ticket while walking a girl through campus back to her dorm (officer parked in his car heard me mention, ever so verbosely, that "taco bell fucking rules when you're blacked out"). In order to receive a deferred sentence on my ticket and erase it from my record (I was 18), the judge mandated I do 18th months of probation, 10 months of which I was doing tri-weekly breathalizers and monthy UAs--$3 apiece for the breathalizers, $20 for UAs. And let's not forget the $50 monthly probation fee (on top of the cost of the original ticket) used to compensate my ever-so diligent community-college communications-major PO with whom I would meet for <20 minutes every four weeks. If I missed a breathalizer due to, oh, I don't know, school, work, internships, LIFE, they would bump me up to daily breathalizers for a month, then a alcohol-detecting anklet after that. For blowing a .18 on a Friday night in college.
I'm typically a level headed dude, but this is one thing I will bitch to the end of time about. To this day I'm not sure how I managed to fuck myself for such a minor offense, even with a good lawyer. Having to explain to a girl you're on a date with that you can't have a glass of wine because "your color might be called later" makes you feel slightly less than the fucking man, to put it lightly. The amount of stress and money these situations require is out of this world, quite honestly, especially given the lack of criminal intent behind the majority of them. Yes, I made a poor choice; yes, this guy made a poor choice. Even if this guy's intent was to sell the oxycontin in his pocket, he will never get those six years back, nor his job with Merrill Lynch. Massive opportunity cost, and it's a shame to think of how much tax money goes toward funding this "drug war" witch hunt of ours. Just be careful folks. $.02

I was taught that the human brain was the crowning glory of evolution so far, but I think it's a very poor scheme for survival.

8/9/12
Tolland15:

My first year of college I got a Minor in Possession of alcohol ticket while walking a girl through campus back to her dorm (officer parked in his car heard me mention, ever so verbosely, that "taco bell fucking rules when you're blacked out"). In order to receive a deferred sentence on my ticket and erase it from my record (I was 18), the judge mandated I do 18th months of probation, 10 months of which I was doing tri-weekly breathalizers and monthy UAs

if you don't mind, what state/region was this in? This seems ridiculous, I know plenty of people who received possession or consumption tickets, hell even DWIs, and never got close to this level of punishment.

8/9/12
geofinance:
Tolland15:

My first year of college I got a Minor in Possession of alcohol ticket while walking a girl through campus back to her dorm (officer parked in his car heard me mention, ever so verbosely, that "taco bell fucking rules when you're blacked out"). In order to receive a deferred sentence on my ticket and erase it from my record (I was 18), the judge mandated I do 18th months of probation, 10 months of which I was doing tri-weekly breathalizers and monthy UAs

if you don't mind, what state/region was this in? This seems ridiculous, I know plenty of people who received possession or consumption tickets, hell even DWIs, and never got close to this level of punishment.

It was in Colorado--my only guess as to the severity of the consequences was that it was on this girl's campus. But even then, don't get it.

I was taught that the human brain was the crowning glory of evolution so far, but I think it's a very poor scheme for survival.

8/9/12
Tolland15:

It was in Colorado--my only guess as to the severity of the consequences was that it was on this girl's campus. But even then, don't get it.

Any college town this will happen. Especially if you were in foco, none of my friends have had good experiences with the cops up there.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/9/12
Tolland15:
geofinance:
Tolland15:

My first year of college I got a Minor in Possession of alcohol ticket while walking a girl through campus back to her dorm (officer parked in his car heard me mention, ever so verbosely, that "taco bell fucking rules when you're blacked out"). In order to receive a deferred sentence on my ticket and erase it from my record (I was 18), the judge mandated I do 18th months of probation, 10 months of which I was doing tri-weekly breathalizers and monthy UAs

if you don't mind, what state/region was this in? This seems ridiculous, I know plenty of people who received possession or consumption tickets, hell even DWIs, and never got close to this level of punishment.

It was in Colorado--my only guess as to the severity of the consequences was that it was on this girl's campus. But even then, don't get it.

Dude, that is insane. I had 2 MIP's and an open container ticket in my life. The 1st MIP I paid it and had like 3 or 6 months license suspension. The 2nd I got a lawyer and got off of it. The open container I just paid the ticket and moved on with life.

8/9/12
geofinance][quote=Tolland15:

My first year of college I got a Minor in Possession of alcohol ticket while walking a girl through campus back to her dorm (officer parked in his car heard me mention, ever so verbosely, that "taco bell fucking rules when you're blacked out"). In order to receive a deferred sentence on my ticket and erase it from my record (I was 18), the judge mandated I do 18th months of probation, 10 months of which I was doing tri-weekly breathalizers and monthy UAs

That is insane. Where I went to college (2002-2006) in Milwaukee I recieved 4 underage drinking tickets, marijuana possession and paraphernalia all within 2 years. The only thing that happened was a shit load of fines and my licence suspended for 2 years. I suggest everyone to get a good lawyer even with minor tickets.

Harvey Specter doesn't get cotton mouth.

8/9/12

we well can't have the bit players horning in on the rackets of the biggest drug dealers of all: pfizer, merck, anheuser-busch...

8/9/12
Edmundo Braverman:

He ended up working as a fry cook.

There's only one way out of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QhttjrOg5A

8/9/12

Better call Saul!

8/9/12
Cookies With Milken:

Better call Saul!

Worked fine for Badger.

I hate victims who respect their executioners

8/9/12

Eddie, I gave you a +1 because this is a big issue with me. Our drug laws are ridiculous. We need to move towards decriminilization and legalization of some drugs.

8/9/12

"What bankers smoke pot?"

A lot. I don't, but I know several that do. And who gives a shit? It's harmless.

Also, anyone saying "well, he should've made better decisions" is missing the entire point. You're unable to see the forest for the trees, so to speak. The punishment is so insanely over the top, it makes no sense. The guy wasn't even high! God damn. And even if he was, should his life be completely fucking ruined over having a single pill in his pocket? Get real.

Eddie - I had no idea the Fully Informed Jury Association existed and I didn't really know much about the rights of a Juror until now. Really really really informative site. Thanks for sharing that.

8/9/12

there was some kid who got 7 years in prison in NJ because he had it in his trunk when he was moving his stuff up from NC for a job. gov. christie had to intervene personally AFTER he was already incarcerated.

this, like all the insane drug sentencing cases, is all blowback from the brutal justice zeitgeist of the 1980s.

8/9/12
melvvvar:

blowback from the brutal justice zeitgeist of the 1980s.

Good call

Get busy living

8/9/12

I hate victims who respect their executioners

8/14/12

End the war on drugs.

Also, this:

BlackHat:

(lil wyte oxy cotton video)

8/14/12
Ron Paul:

End the war on drugs.

Also, this:

BlackHat:

(lil wyte oxy cotton video)

OXYCONTIN XANAX BARS PERCOCETS AND LORTABS, VALIUMS MORPHINE PATCHES ECSTASCY AND ITS ALL UP FO GRABZ

I hate victims who respect their executioners

8/14/12
BlackHat:
Ron Paul:

End the war on drugs.

Also, this:

BlackHat:

(lil wyte oxy cotton video)

OXYCONTIN XANAX BARS PERCOCETS AND LORTABS, VALIUMS MORPHINE PATCHES ECSTASCY AND ITS ALL UP FO GRABZ

Haha, i used to listen to Lil White when i was in junior high, wtf was i thinking...

8/9/12

This sounds awfully familiar...

I really think the only option is to go work out of the country...

8/9/12

The war on drugs is nothing but pure evil.

I am convinced that it is nearing its end, though. We citizens must stand up and fight for our rights. People shouldn't have to take drug tests for private sector jobs that don't involve handling dangerous machinery/equipment/etc. It's ridiculous that corporations get to test what substances present are in our bodies.

8/9/12
SamuelClemens:

The war on drugs is nothing but pure evil.

I am convinced that it is nearing its end, though. We citizens must stand up and fight for our rights. People shouldn't have to take drug tests for private sector jobs that don't involve handling dangerous machinery/equipment/etc. It's ridiculous that corporations get to test what substances present are in our bodies.

I am 100% against the war on drugs and support the legalization of drugs. I support individual rights.

However, not allowing a private company to drug test potential employees (or frankly, most other bat-shit crazy ideas) is violating the rights of the owners of that business. You don't have to apply for that job. Businesses don't have to drug test people of they don't want to.

In an ideal world, you have the right to smoke your weed and I have the right to decide if that works for my company. I don't need the gov't telling me how to run my business any more than I need them telling me I can't be involved in a crime that has no victims.

If you take your idea a step further, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to test firefighters on their physical capabilities, doctors on their aptitude, or hedge fund managers on their performance.

Maybe they would set some minimum wage level I have to pay...oh, wait....

8/10/12
SirTradesaLot:
SamuelClemens:

The war on drugs is nothing but pure evil.

I am convinced that it is nearing its end, though. We citizens must stand up and fight for our rights. People shouldn't have to take drug tests for private sector jobs that don't involve handling dangerous machinery/equipment/etc. It's ridiculous that corporations get to test what substances present are in our bodies.

I am 100% against the war on drugs and support the legalization of drugs. I support individual rights.

However, not allowing a private company to drug test potential employees (or frankly, most other bat-shit crazy ideas) is violating the rights of the owners of that business. You don't have to apply for that job. Businesses don't have to drug test people of they don't want to.

In an ideal world, you have the right to smoke your weed and I have the right to decide if that works for my company. I don't need the gov't telling me how to run my business any more than I need them telling me I can't be involved in a crime that has no victims.

If you take your idea a step further, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to test firefighters on their physical capabilities, doctors on their aptitude, or hedge fund managers on their performance.

Maybe they would set some minimum wage level I have to pay...oh, wait....

Slippery slope fallacy? I thought you were better than that.

Most companies that drug test don't do it because they want to, anyways. They do it because they are forced into it via insurance etc. or they just want to cover their asses in case stuff like the article in the OP happens. Drug testing is just another facet of the prison-industrial complex; selling all of those urine tests every year ends up bringing in quite a profit.

historiclegend:

Just curious, have any of you guys that are for legalizing drugs dealt with them before (specifically other than marijuana)? In any way.. You or people you knew.

I know at least half a dozen people that ODd on oxy, then that's not counting how many who got addicted - dozens. This is just one drug, idk what shit would look like with non being illegal. There may be long term reprocussions from starting that social experiment. Not worth fucking up a good system over IMO.

My best friend from childhood is addicted to meth, and I'm still pro legalization of all drugs. I know how terrible these drugs are, but making it illegal just fuels the problem. When it's illegal, there's a big profit to be made, both for the dealers and the law enforcement side. That's where the problem lies. We need to get the money out of the equation. Also when you go to prison for drugs, it's often a recidivism trap where you cycle in and out for the rest of your life.

8/10/12
SamuelClemens:
SirTradesaLot:

I am 100% against the war on drugs and support the legalization of drugs. I support individual rights.

However, not allowing a private company to drug test potential employees (or frankly, most other bat-shit crazy ideas) is violating the rights of the owners of that business. You don't have to apply for that job. Businesses don't have to drug test people of they don't want to.

Slippery slope fallacy? I thought you were better than that.

I'm certainly not better than that. However, my argument primarily rests on individual rights and property rights.. If you smoke weed, that doesn't harm me, so do what you need to do. If I own a business, I can do with my property as I would like, including drug testing of employees.. If you don't like my policy, you are free to apply elsewhere. Of course, your argument is that the government has a right to tell me how to run my business...let's just call it what it is.

By the way, we don't drug test people at our firm...yet.

8/9/12

Just curious, have any of you guys that are for legalizing drugs dealt with them before (specifically other than marijuana)? In any way.. You or people you knew.

I know at least half a dozen people that ODd on oxy, then that's not counting how many who got addicted - dozens. This is just one drug, idk what shit would look like with non being illegal. There may be long term reprocussions from starting that social experiment. Not worth fucking up a good system over IMO.

8/9/12
historiclegend:

Just curious, have any of you guys that are for legalizing drugs dealt with them before (specifically other than marijuana)? In any way.. You or people you knew.

I know at least half a dozen people that ODd on oxy, then that's not counting how many who got addicted - dozens. This is just one drug, idk what shit would look like with non being illegal. There may be long term reprocussions from starting that social experiment. Not worth fucking up a good system over IMO.

That is if you consider the current system good.

What about all the fraudulent costs from people looking to score Oxy/Vic? All the pharmacy robberies? People who does worse drugs because they can't get what they really want?

Alcohol is legal and widely accepted, but it causes much more damage than several illicit drugs.

8/10/12
historiclegend:

Just curious, have any of you guys that are for legalizing drugs dealt with them before (specifically other than marijuana)? In any way.. You or people you knew.

I know at least half a dozen people that ODd on oxy, then that's not counting how many who got addicted - dozens. This is just one drug, idk what shit would look like with non being illegal. There may be long term reprocussions from starting that social experiment. Not worth fucking up a good system over IMO.

how many people kill themselves each year from disease and accidents relating to alcohol? how about cancer from tobacco use? how about eating too many fucking steaks and krispy kreme and clogging your arteries? mind you that these things kill you when used as directed, no less.

you wanna ban all of those things?

8/10/12
historiclegend:

Just curious, have any of you guys that are for legalizing drugs dealt with them before (specifically other than marijuana)? In any way.. You or people you knew.

I know at least half a dozen people that ODd on oxy, then that's not counting how many who got addicted - dozens. This is just one drug, idk what shit would look like with non being illegal. There may be long term reprocussions from starting that social experiment. Not worth fucking up a good system over IMO.

why do so many of your acquaintances have severe drug issues?

8/10/12
bigtool05:
historiclegend:

Just curious, have any of you guys that are for legalizing drugs dealt with them before (specifically other than marijuana)? In any way.. You or people you knew.

I know at least half a dozen people that ODd on oxy, then that's not counting how many who got addicted - dozens. This is just one drug, idk what shit would look like with non being illegal. There may be long term reprocussions from starting that social experiment. Not worth fucking up a good system over IMO.

why do so many of your acquaintances have severe drug issues?

Was also wondering how badly he exaggerated numbers on the 6 oxycontin overdoses and multiple dozens who are currently addicted. And that's just oxycontin, which isn't even that popular as a base drug. Even with the number of pill junkies I know, having that many specifically aimed at a drug like oxycontin strikes me as a tad aggressive. Now if you said oxycodone or klonopin or something... then 8 ODs (but it doesn't really count as an OD unless you die, so this number is more like 3... right Whitney?) and 25 addicts is probably on the low side...

I hate victims who respect their executioners

8/10/12
BlackHat:

Was also wondering how badly he exaggerated numbers on the 6 oxycontin overdoses and multiple dozens who are currently addicted. And that's just oxycontin, which isn't even that popular as a base drug. Even with the number of pill junkies I know, having that many specifically aimed at a drug like oxycontin strikes me as a tad aggressive. Now if you said oxycodone or klonopin or something... then 8 ODs (but it doesn't really count as an OD unless you die, so this number is more like 3... right Whitney?) and 25 addicts is probably on the low side...

Don't have to die, "toxic state" also counts per Wikipedia.

PS- pills suck

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/10/12
D M:

PS- pills suck

Is this retribution for my anti-cocaine stance from an earlier thread? Cuz ya know I love me some pills.

I hate victims who respect their executioners

8/10/12
BlackHat:
D M:

PS- pills suck

Is this retribution for my anti-cocaine stance from an earlier thread? Cuz ya know I love me some pills.

LOL I hate cocaine, too. Adderall > cocaine though, so in some cases pills are okay. And molly is way better for you than e

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/10/12
D M:
BlackHat:
D M:

PS- pills suck

Is this retribution for my anti-cocaine stance from an earlier thread? Cuz ya know I love me some pills.

LOL I hate cocaine, too. Adderall > cocaine though, so in some cases pills are okay. And molly is way better for you than e

I love the health benefits of mollyMDMA. It's like the Trader Joe's of designer drugs

I hate victims who respect their executioners

8/10/12
BlackHat:
D M:
BlackHat:
D M:

PS- pills suck

Is this retribution for my anti-cocaine stance from an earlier thread? Cuz ya know I love me some pills.

LOL I hate cocaine, too. Adderall > cocaine though, so in some cases pills are okay. And molly is way better for you than e

I love the health benefits of mollyMDMA. It's like the Trader Joe's of designer drugs

I was going to write something way more gay, but instead I'm just going to say I love you. Yea, I've had drinks.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/10/12
D M:
BlackHat:
D M:
BlackHat:
D M:

PS- pills suck

Is this retribution for my anti-cocaine stance from an earlier thread? Cuz ya know I love me some pills.

LOL I hate cocaine, too. Adderall > cocaine though, so in some cases pills are okay. And molly is way better for you than e

I love the health benefits of mollyMDMA. It's like the Trader Joe's of designer drugs

I was going to write something way more gay, but instead I'm just going to say I love you. Yea, I've had drinks.

Nobody's in the office so maybe I'll have drinks too... and by the way, I'd totally do me too.

I hate victims who respect their executioners

8/10/12
BlackHat:
D M:
BlackHat:
D M:
BlackHat:
D M:

PS- pills suck

Is this retribution for my anti-cocaine stance from an earlier thread? Cuz ya know I love me some pills.

LOL I hate cocaine, too. Adderall > cocaine though, so in some cases pills are okay. And molly is way better for you than e

I love the health benefits of mollyMDMA. It's like the Trader Joe's of designer drugs

I was going to write something way more gay, but instead I'm just going to say I love you. Yea, I've had drinks.

Nobody's in the office so maybe I'll have drinks too... and by the way, I'd totally do me too.

How does he do that...

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/10/12
bigtool05:
historiclegend:

Just curious, have any of you guys that are for legalizing drugs dealt with them before (specifically other than marijuana)? In any way.. You or people you knew.

I know at least half a dozen people that ODd on oxy, then that's not counting how many who got addicted - dozens. This is just one drug, idk what shit would look like with non being illegal. There may be long term reprocussions from starting that social experiment. Not worth fucking up a good system over IMO.

why do so many of your acquaintances have severe drug issues?

Yea, wtf circles are you running in. I've done beyond my fair share of experimentation and I don't have a single friend that has ODd. Maybe your friends are just fking retarded.

And btw, those that are going to be drug addicts will find a way regardless. All of a sudden it being legal doesn't mean people are going to run out and get it.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/10/12
historiclegend:

Just curious, have any of you guys that are for legalizing drugs dealt with them before (specifically other than marijuana)? In any way.. You or people you knew.

I know at least half a dozen people that ODd on oxy, then that's not counting how many who got addicted - dozens. This is just one drug, idk what shit would look like with non being illegal. There may be long term reprocussions from starting that social experiment. Not worth fucking up a good system over IMO.

Yes on a very wide spectrum.

8/10/12

@historiclegend You're talking about an individual self-control issue here. Why should the rest of us suffer just because your friends are fuck-ups? What you're saying is that people need government to protect them from themselves, and that's just another load of nanny state bullshit.

8/10/12

This doesn't add up...wouldn't the agency at least check his medical history, and at least presented to the judge? If his medical history is clean and shows no prescription of any sort of drugs susceptible to abuse, wouldn't it strengthen his case? Did nobody bother to check or is there something the guy isn't telling?

Baby you're the perfect shape, baby you're the perfect weight. Treat me like my birthday, I want it this way and I want it that way. It makes a man feel good baby.

8/10/12

Just saying the US is a pretty good country, I wouldnt risk changing something so big and risk the possible side effects. My argument isn't that the current system is perfect. It is that I don't think the possible upside outweighs the possible downside.

I went to a big high school in a big city, just people you run into. I also wasn't a geek.

Yes those ODs are deaths.

8/11/12

This is amazing, I did not thought the drug laws were so harsh. I feel for that guy. I don't see why he was screwed like that for a fucking pill. I think we should legalize all drugs. The state should not tell me what to put in my body. And this is coming from someone who never has done any drugs. When they took my wisdom teeth out they gave me some opiates for the pain and I hated how they made me feel that I just stopped taking them. I prefered the pain, at least it was familiar. The only thing the law should interfere is when you fuck up while on the influence of drugs. For example, some car accident while you are high, just like with alcohol. But if you do it in your home, whatever, who cares.

8/11/12
andres17:

I prefered the pain, at least it was familiar.

are you Batman?

8/11/12
SirTradesaLot:
andres17:

I prefered the pain, at least it was familiar.

are you Batman?

lmao, but he's not lying, I actually know a few people who would rather deal with the pain than the way painkillers make them feel.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/12/12
D M:
SirTradesaLot:
andres17:

I prefered the pain, at least it was familiar.

are you Batman?

lmao, but he's not lying, I actually know a few people who would rather deal with the pain than the way painkillers make them feel.

LMAO.

They're doing it wrong.

8/12/12
Edmundo Braverman:

LMAO.

They're doing it wrong.

I thought so too until I saw a friend throw up a vicodin with nothing else in his system. Pills just do that to some people.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/13/12
Edmundo Braverman:
D M:
SirTradesaLot:
andres17:

I prefered the pain, at least it was familiar.

are you Batman?

lmao, but he's not lying, I actually know a few people who would rather deal with the pain than the way painkillers make them feel.

LMAO.

They're doing it wrong.

I was gonna pretty much post the same thing. Any chance I can take the PKs off their hands for them, just as a civil service to my fellow man?

I hate victims who respect their executioners

8/18/12
BlackHat:
Edmundo Braverman:
D M:
SirTradesaLot:
andres17:

I prefered the pain, at least it was familiar.

are you Batman?

lmao, but he's not lying, I actually know a few people who would rather deal with the pain than the way painkillers make them feel.

LMAO.

They're doing it wrong.

I was gonna pretty much post the same thing. Any chance I can take the PKs off their hands for them, just as a civil service to my fellow man?

I actually went to the pharmacy and tried to gave them back. Apparently they don't accept expensive pills back. So they are in my drug cabinet. I would gladly give them to you BH.

As to me doing it wrong, what do you guys mean? Am I supposed to take the pills and go Breaking Bad on it?

8/18/12
SirTradesaLot:
andres17:

I prefered the pain, at least it was familiar.

are you Batman?

Come one man. We are talking about wisdom teeth here. Not the Casino Royale torture scene ;)

8/11/12

^^^I mean the laws are obnoxious enough, but really it's the ultimate effect of the penalties that fuck people's shit up. Jail is whatever for the most part, it's when you get out that you're really fucked

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/12/12

I love how libertarians are libertarian until a company wants to exercise its rights as a private entity. It never ceases to amaze me that libertarians argue against the right of companies to drug test their employees. Hello? They are PRIVATE and should be allowed to hire whoever they want based on the criteria they set. As a businessowner, I'm totally uninterested in drug testing my employees. But to those who are? More power to 'em! If that's part of their hiring formula then who am I to bitch about it? It's THEIR company!

8/13/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

I love how libertarians are libertarian until a company wants to exercise its rights as a private entity. It never ceases to amaze me that libertarians argue against the right of companies to drug test their employees. Hello? They are PRIVATE and should be allowed to hire whoever they want based on the criteria they set. As a businessowner, I'm totally uninterested in drug testing my employees. But to those who are? More power to 'em! If that's part of their hiring formula then who am I to bitch about it? It's THEIR company!

I consider myself Libertarian and believe compainies have the right to drug test. Who, in this thread, has argued otherwise?

8/13/12
txjustin:
Virginia Tech 4ever:

I love how libertarians are libertarian until a company wants to exercise its rights as a private entity. It never ceases to amaze me that libertarians argue against the right of companies to drug test their employees. Hello? They are PRIVATE and should be allowed to hire whoever they want based on the criteria they set. As a businessowner, I'm totally uninterested in drug testing my employees. But to those who are? More power to 'em! If that's part of their hiring formula then who am I to bitch about it? It's THEIR company!

I consider myself Libertarian and believe compainies have the right to drug test. Who, in this thread, has argued otherwise?

If they want to drug test as a prerequisite to employment or reserve the right to do it at any time, good for them. I am more than willing to voice my opinion that they're retarded for doing so as there are many drug addicts more than capable of functioning at their job.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/15/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

I love how libertarians are libertarian until a company wants to exercise its rights as a private entity. It never ceases to amaze me that libertarians argue against the right of companies to drug test their employees. Hello? They are PRIVATE and should be allowed to hire whoever they want based on the criteria they set. As a businessowner, I'm totally uninterested in drug testing my employees. But to those who are? More power to 'em! If that's part of their hiring formula then who am I to bitch about it? It's THEIR company!

I certainly don't support the right of companies to do whatever they want to their workers. I believe the government needs to put in some protection measures to protect workers. Minimum wage and safety requirements are good examples of these. I think a ban on drug testing is necessary as well. Before you go and say "but people can just choose not to work for companies if they do things they don't like", realize that not everyone is fortunate enough to have a large variety of jobs available to them.

8/13/12

this is pretty sad..

8/15/12

What completely boggles my mind is that there is incentive for authorities to do this.. the more people charged and forced to attend these BS drug class and Anonymous meetings, the more loot in their pocket...

absolutely fkd

8/15/12
8/15/12
Unforseen:

I guess people in Kansas read WSO:
http://reason.com/blog/2012/08/14/kansas-prosecuto...

Reading that just put the biggest smile on my face...

I hate victims who respect their executioners

8/15/12
9/21/12
9/21/12
10/15/12
10/2/12
Let's burn the pages, we'll start anew
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