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Wall Street Oasis » Blogs » Edmundo Braverman's blog

Sell Your Options Dearly: MARRIAGE Forum's RSS Feed Share

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Edmundo Braverman's picture
Edmundo Braverman
     ST
 
 
(Human, 11,075
 
Points)
 on 6/16/10 at 8:42am
bridezilla.jpg

Do you know why divorce is so expensive? Because it's worth it.

I don't think my advice today is going to come as a shock to any of you. In fact, if you're pressed for time, here's the takeaway: Don't get married, especially in your 20's.

Now, before I delve into the post, I have to point out a few key things. First, take my advice with a whole shaker of salt. After all, I've walked down the aisle of doom three times now. Second, I have to measure my words carefully because I am happily married now, my wife might someday get bored enough to read this, and I'd like to get laid again before I die. Fear not; I'll still give you the straight scoop like I always do. I'll probably just refrain from pointing out that dipping your privates in battery acid is a better move than getting married.

The fact is, you're going to get married. You might as well get your head around it now. Marriage is the fate of the vast majority of humanity. According to Census Bureau statistics, 95% of men and women have been married by age 55. Ninety-five percent. So odds are it's gonna happen to you.

Let me get the rest of the statistics out of the way up front, because they're scary but not particularly effective in dissuading people from taking the plunge. I attribute that to the fact that our heads tell us it's a bad idea, but our hearts tell us that we're the exception and not the rule. Just keep in mind that every divorced couple who made up these stats also thought they were the exception and not the rule.

If you get married before age 20, you've actually got a halfway decent shot of making it to the finish line. Only 11.7% of men who got divorced were married before age 20. Who knew shotgun weddings were the way to go? In fairness, the numbers are little different for women. 27.6% of women who got divorced were married before age 20. I attribute the disparity to the number of 50-year old guys who marry 19-year old girls and then trade them in for a newer model when they reach drinking age.

If you get married in your 20's, however, the numbers get downright ugly. We often hear the statistic that 50% of marriages end up in divorce, and that's kinda true, but it comes from aggregate numbers. The real number is even higher if you get married in your 20's (53% for women and 61.1% for men). This basically means that 72.8% of men and 80.6% of women who wound up divorced got married before age 30. Still like your odds?

I can already hear some of you saying that it won't happen to you because you're not like other guys. You're completely committed, you understand what that commitment means, maybe you're deeply religious and divorce is anathema to you, you'll never leave your wife. I feel you, brother. But let me lay a little more truth on you.

Today 80% of divorce filings are unilateral. That means no matter how committed you are, how happy you are, how much you love your wife and would never leave her, there's a good chance statistically that she might leave you. Nothing you can do about that. People change, even if you don't.

The odds are downright abysmal for multiple marriage guys like me. 67% of second marriages and 74% of third marriages end in divorce. Larry King isn't doing us any favors.

So why is marriage such a bad idea, especially when you're young? I'll never claim to be an expert, but I can definitely give you a perspective from the trenches.

I was 21 the first time I got married. She was beautiful, cool, and I didn't expect to live very long. True story. It's a lot easier to make a lifetime commitment when you think you might get your ticket punched any day. If I'd had the decency to take the dirt nap a couple months later, it would have gone down as one of history's great marriages.

But that's not how things worked out. We pulled in the same direction for a while, and she was a great cheerleader for me when it came to getting into finance. Once I started making some real money, though, things changed.

So I'm surrounded by guys my age making bank and going out partying just about every night, just having a blast, and I have to go home to my wife and house. On top of that, she was three years older than me, so her biological clock was becoming a factor. I was looking to party like a rock star and she was looking to settle down.

I would call our divorce amicable. And why not? She got everything. In order to forgo alimony payments and to keep her quiet about a few trades I'd made that weren't exactly kosher, I left my house with a duffel bag of clothes and nothing else. She got the house, the furniture, the SUV, hell, she even got my dog. Expensive lesson.

I got married for the second time when I was 29. She was beautiful too, but mean as a snake. You know your marriage hasn't got a Snowball's chance in Hell when you find yourself lusting after the hot limo driver in the short skirt who just delivered your bride-to-be to the wedding ceremony.

Don't ever marry a climber. Especially a low-rent climber. I was a commodities trader at the time and, as far as she was concerned, I was her golden ticket to the show. This works out fine as long as you're not legally bound to a golddigger. My lawyer threatened to fire me as a client if I didn't maker her sign a pre-nup. She called my bluff by saying she'd sign it, so I let her off the hook. Oops.

Didn't take that marriage long to implode at all. Same deal as the first one: she got the lovely parting gifts, and I got the room at the YMCA. Such is life.

My point in mentioning these two disasters is not merely to entertain you. It's important to realize that when you're young, especially in your early 20's, you're way too selfish for marriage. And I know you don't realize that. Think about it. Everything you've done in life up until now is for you. It may have been done at your parents' behest, but it's all for your benefit. If you're being honest with yourself, you are all you've really thought of up until now.

Now, put someone on the other side of that equation. She's every bit as selfish as you are, and maybe even moreso. And she doesn't realize it either. You're each getting married for your own selfish reasons, what you think you're going to get out of it, and you're not thinking about what it requires to make a marriage work.

Men go into marriage thinking nothing will change. Women go into marriage thinking everything will change. Both are sorely disappointed. Marriage takes an absolutely backbreaking level of compromise to make it work. Not negotiation, mind you. Compromise. In a negotiation you can come to a win-win solution. Compromise is always lose-lose.

You're going to give up things that are sacrosanct to you, and she's going to look at you like you haven't given an inch. You're going to do the same to her. It takes a great deal of maturity, more than I ever had in my 20's, to find the middle ground where there is mutual contentment rather than mutual misery.

I'm going to say one more thing about what I think is critical to a successful marriage and then I'll wrap this up with a few final thoughts. I'm about to celebrate my 8th anniversary with my third (and you'd better believe final) wife. She's lasted longer than the other two combined, and she's the great love of my life. She has proven to me that marriage is worthwhile if done properly, and I'm a better man for just being around her. A bad marriage can ruin your life, but a good marriage can turn you into the person you were meant to become.

I think the foundational key to our success is our shared family background. She's not my cousin, if that's what you perverts are thinking. What I mean by that is that we were both raised in essentially the same environment. (Two-parent household, dad worked, mom stayed home and raised the kids, etc...) Now, that might not be your background, and it's no big deal if it isn't. But you'd be well served to find someone who was raised like you. Half a billion Indians in arranged marriages can't be wrong.

Mind you, I'm not saying opposites don't attract. My wife is my polar opposite in many ways, and it adds spice to the gumbo. But when you know where someone comes from, it's easier to know where they're coming from. If you know what I mean.

So, to recap. It's a bad idea to get married in your 20's (especially your early 20's) because you've got long odds against you, you're way too selfish to pull it off and you don't even realize it, and most of all, you should be having a good fucking time in your 20's!

Use that time to see the world, to establish yourself in business, to make yourself someone worth knowing. Legally binding yourself to another human being at that age should be inconceivable to you.

Finally, I feel like I have to talk about the notion of marrying "well". I'm sure there's one of you out there right now, maybe more, saying, "You don't know shit, Eddie. My girl's family is filthy rich and when I marry her, I'm set for life." That's all well and fine, but you've got to ask yourself a few questions.

First of all, do you think the family has remained wealthy because her father has turned over the family jewels to every lower-middle class shlub who managed to diddle his little princess after a 4-pack of wine coolers? Me neither. They might let you see it, they might even let you smell it, but they'll never let you touch it.

Second, you have to ask yourself if you're willing to carry the piss bucket. It's your price of admission. If you can swallow your pride and sell your dignity, maybe you've got a shot. I could never do it. Plus rich chicks are a pain in the ass.

This went way longer than I intended, but I hope I've passed along some solid food for thought. Mostly, just remember that you're only young once. It's hard to tear the ass out of life when you're dragging around baggage.

One last thing for the younger guys. You know that thing about your girl, that thing that makes her so special to you? The thing that makes you think she's "The One"? Yeah. Every other girl on the planet has one of those too.

Just saying.

Resources:
http://www.divorcerate.org/
http://www.meninmarriage.com/article05.htm

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Tags:
  • married
  • odds
  • options
  • sell
  • marriage
  • larry king
  • didem
  • Divorce
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Comments

night_train's picture

hit it and quit babayy

night_train
     IB
 
(Chimp, 7
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 8:54am

hit it and quit babayy

"Don't just stare at it, eat it!" - PB

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ElijahPrice's picture

Edmundo Braverman wrote: If

ElijahPrice
     IB
 
(Orangutan, 306
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 9:09am
Edmundo Braverman:

If you get married before age 20, you've actually got a halfway decent shot of making it to the finish line. Only 11.7% of men who got married before age 20 ended up divorced. Who knew shotgun weddings were the way to go? In fairness, the numbers are little different for women. 27.6% of women married before age 20 ended up divorced. I attribute the disparity to the number of 50-year old guys who marry 19-year old girls and then trade them in for a newer model when they reach drinking age.

If you get married in your 20's, however, the numbers get downright ugly. We often hear the statistic that 50% of marriages end up in divorce, and that's kinda true, but it comes from aggregate numbers. The real number is even higher if you get married in your 20's (53% for women and 61.1% for men). This basically means that 72.8% of men and 80.6% of women who got married before age 30 wound up divorced. Still like your odds?
http://www.divorcerate.org/
http://www.meninmarriage.com/article05.htm

Edmundo,

Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but you are reading the stats wrong. The stats on divorcerate.org are not the percentage of married people who get divorced, but the percentage of divorced people by age.

So it's not 11.7% of men who got married before age 20 ended up divorced, but 11.7% of divorced men were under the age of 20 when they were married. 88.3% is the percentage of male divorcees that were older than 20 when they were married, not the percentage of men who got married before 20 and are still married. And so on and so forth for the rest of the stats.

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Edmundo Braverman's picture

Wow, nice catch Elijah. I

Edmundo Braverman
     ST
 
 
(Human, 11,075
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 9:11am

Wow, nice catch Elijah. I thought those numbers seemed awfully high. If I'm reading it correctly now, it is saying that 11.7% of divorced males got married before 20, etc...

So my extrapolation is way off.

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blong131's picture

Edmundo Braverman wrote: One

blong131
     ST
 
(Senior Monkey, 68
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 9:20am
Edmundo Braverman:

One last thing for the younger guys. You know that thing about your girl, that thing that makes her so special to you? The thing that makes you think she's "The One"? Yeah. Every other girl on the planet has one of those too.

Just saying.

ahhahaha thank you so much.

_________

John Tabacco's raw, unique market commentary based on real information from real short sellers:
http://www.TheDailyShortReport.com

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Edmundo Braverman's picture

Sorry guys. I fixed it. Now

Edmundo Braverman
     ST
 
 
(Human, 11,075
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 9:21am

Sorry guys. I fixed it. Now the post accurately reflects the data.

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veritas14's picture

You realize that some people

veritas14
     ST
 
(Gorilla, 673
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 9:35am

You realize that some people are capable of working in finance, being in their 20s and NOT being a selfish d-bag right?

So YOU were a huge tool in your 20s, why does that doom the rest of the us?

Some of us left the frat boy mentality in college (where it belongs).

Some of us would love to leave the office and head home for a quiet night with the wife (and kids! oh horror).

*********************************
“The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde

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LIBOR's picture

Great post, once again. My

LIBOR
     EN
 
(Neanderthal, 2,281
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 9:35am

Great post, once again.

My parents met at 16 flipping burgers at McDonald's. They got married at 22, and have been happy ever since (now 50). Anyway, I used to think I wanted just that, to find someone early in life and settle down. Recently, I've been rethinking that philosophy, and this post only helped to affirm this new perspective. Your point about each person being selfish in their early 20's is dead on. I look forward to the rest of this series. Thanks again man

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?

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blong131's picture

LIBOR wrote: Great post, once

blong131
     ST
 
(Senior Monkey, 68
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 9:44am
LIBOR:

Great post, once again.

My parents met at 16 flipping burgers at McDonald's. They got married at 22, and have been happy ever since (now 50). Anyway, I used to think I wanted just that, to find someone early in life and settle down. Recently, I've been rethinking that philosophy, and this post only helped to affirm this new perspective. Your point about each person being selfish in their early 20's is dead on. I look forward to the rest of this series. Thanks again man

you definitely dream of meeting the perfect girl at motherburger.

_________

John Tabacco's raw, unique market commentary based on real information from real short sellers:
http://www.TheDailyShortReport.com

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someotherguy's picture

Love it- All I have to say

someotherguy
     HF
 
(Orangutan, 270
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 9:47am

Love it- All I have to say is... marry an ugly woman. Seriously. I currently date a hot and fun girl that comes from a wealthy family, and man what a pain in the ass. I come from a very middle class background. She considers central air conditioning something vitally necessary for the survival of humanity and we have arguments because she thinks we need to leave it on 72 during the day for our DOG. Nothing is ever good enough. We have an 1100 sq ft 1.5 bed 2 bath apartment in a fantastic building with a pool, hot tub, gym, movie theater, virtual golf, bbq's firepit, river views, dog run, playground, even a farking yoga room, and she complains its too small. We have a 6x6 walk in closet that she takes up 85% of and bitches she doesn't have enough room. I actually force her to throw something out when she goes shopping now. Going out to a chain restaurant "doesn't count" as taking her out. When it comes to bed, I am not even that interested anymore because she is 100% focused on herself. She has never had to learn the value of a dollar because her parents paid her rent when she got out of college and was working an entry level job.

My ex, who I regret ditching often, was rather homely. She wasn't fat or hideous, but I definitely didn't have to worry about her going out to the bars and getting hit on. She was also rather boring- kind of what was alluded to in your post, I was going through my crazy party all the time phase with tons of friends, and she was painfully shy and quiet and would more or less just sit in the corner at the bar and wait for me to tell her its time to go home. I dumper her because of this. Yet she came from a very middle class background as well- her parents delightfully showed me pictures of her in their apartment in queens running around naked at 6 years old because they didn't have A/C. She appreciated everything I did for her- she would even buy dessert or drinks after if I bought her dinner. Living in an apt complex on the water w/ roommates was impressive to her. A reasonably sized but dumpy walk up in Williamsburg that was close to the train was all she ever wanted in life. We never fought- we had exactly one fight where I was mad at her for a mistake she unintentionally made that I got over in about 10 minutes. She f'ed like a champ and I get a lot more excited thinking about her than I do w/ my current woman who has an ass you can bounce a quarter off of (which costs a grand every 3 months for personal training).

I am going to stop because I am on the verge of rambling if I am not passed that already. My point is- that hot girl in the designer dress at the club asking for a drink too soon is bound to give you nothing but trouble. That hot body is guaranteed to look pretty crappy in 10 years, and she will be convinced she needs even more expensive clothes to cover it up, and wants to move back into a 3000+ sq ft house ASAP. Marry the girl who expects little and appreciates whatever comes her way. You will be WAY happier.

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Edmundo Braverman's picture

"Let us leave the beautiful

Edmundo Braverman
     ST
 
 
(Human, 11,075
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 9:57am

"Let us leave the beautiful women to men with no imagination..." - Marcel Proust

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adapt or die's picture

someotherguy wrote: She

adapt or die
    
 
(Senior Gorilla, 842
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 10:21am
someotherguy:

She considers central air conditioning something vitally necessary for the survival of humanity

Sounds like my kind of girl. I blast that A/C like I'm refrigerating the house. I sleep in the cryogenic freeze everynight.

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veritas14's picture

someotherguy wrote: Love it-

veritas14
     ST
 
(Gorilla, 673
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 10:35am
someotherguy:

Love it- All I have to say is... marry an ugly woman. Seriously. I currently date a hot and fun girl that comes from a wealthy family, and man what a pain in the ass. I come from a very middle class background. She considers central air conditioning something vitally necessary for the survival of humanity and we have arguments because she thinks we need to leave it on 72 during the day for our DOG. Nothing is ever good enough. We have an 1100 sq ft 1.5 bed 2 bath apartment in a fantastic building with a pool, hot tub, gym, movie theater, virtual golf, bbq's firepit, river views, dog run, playground, even a farking yoga room, and she complains its too small. We have a 6x6 walk in closet that she takes up 85% of and bitches she doesn't have enough room. I actually force her to throw something out when she goes shopping now. Going out to a chain restaurant "doesn't count" as taking her out. When it comes to bed, I am not even that interested anymore because she is 100% focused on herself. She has never had to learn the value of a dollar because her parents paid her rent when she got out of college and was working an entry level job.

My ex, who I regret ditching often, was rather homely. She wasn't fat or hideous, but I definitely didn't have to worry about her going out to the bars and getting hit on. She was also rather boring- kind of what was alluded to in your post, I was going through my crazy party all the time phase with tons of friends, and she was painfully shy and quiet and would more or less just sit in the corner at the bar and wait for me to tell her its time to go home. I dumper her because of this. Yet she came from a very middle class background as well- her parents delightfully showed me pictures of her in their apartment in queens running around naked at 6 years old because they didn't have A/C. She appreciated everything I did for her- she would even buy dessert or drinks after if I bought her dinner. Living in an apt complex on the water w/ roommates was impressive to her. A reasonably sized but dumpy walk up in Williamsburg that was close to the train was all she ever wanted in life. We never fought- we had exactly one fight where I was mad at her for a mistake she unintentionally made that I got over in about 10 minutes. She f'ed like a champ and I get a lot more excited thinking about her than I do w/ my current woman who has an ass you can bounce a quarter off of (which costs a grand every 3 months for personal training).

I am going to stop because I am on the verge of rambling if I am not passed that already. My point is- that hot girl in the designer dress at the club asking for a drink too soon is bound to give you nothing but trouble. That hot body is guaranteed to look pretty crappy in 10 years, and she will be convinced she needs even more expensive clothes to cover it up, and wants to move back into a 3000+ sq ft house ASAP. Marry the girl who expects little and appreciates whatever comes her way. You will be WAY happier.

1- you won't meet a wife at a club

2- why are you still with this woman-child if she is so bothersome?

3- bragging about your apartment to anonymous posters = gay

*********************************
“The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde

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Edmundo Braverman's picture

veritas14 wrote: 1- you won't

Edmundo Braverman
     ST
 
 
(Human, 11,075
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 10:38am
veritas14:

1- you won't meet a wife at a club

Au contraire, mon frere. I met all 3 of my wives in a bar. It's the only place you're gonna meet a guy like me.

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veritas14's picture

Edmundo Braverman

veritas14
     ST
 
(Gorilla, 673
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 10:42am
Edmundo Braverman:
veritas14:

1- you won't meet a wife at a club

Au contraire, mon frere. I met all 3 of my wives in a bar. It's the only place you're gonna meet a guy like me.

While you may be happily married now, the first 2 women were definitely not "wives" in any meaningful sense.

*********************************
“The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde

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Edmundo Braverman's picture

veritas14 wrote: While you

Edmundo Braverman
     ST
 
 
(Human, 11,075
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 10:46am
veritas14:

While you may be happily married now, the first 2 women were definitely not "wives" in any meaningful sense.

Their lawyers would respectfully disagree.

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Brady4MVP's picture

someotherguy wrote: Love it-

Brady4MVP
     HF
 
(Neanderthal, 2,621
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 10:55am
someotherguy:

Love it- All I have to say is... marry an ugly woman. Seriously. I currently date a hot and fun girl that comes from a wealthy family, and man what a pain in the ass. I come from a very middle class background. She considers central air conditioning something vitally necessary for the survival of humanity and we have arguments because she thinks we need to leave it on 72 during the day for our DOG. Nothing is ever good enough. We have an 1100 sq ft 1.5 bed 2 bath apartment in a fantastic building with a pool, hot tub, gym, movie theater, virtual golf, bbq's firepit, river views, dog run, playground, even a farking yoga room, and she complains its too small. We have a 6x6 walk in closet that she takes up 85% of and bitches she doesn't have enough room. I actually force her to throw something out when she goes shopping now. Going out to a chain restaurant "doesn't count" as taking her out. When it comes to bed, I am not even that interested anymore because she is 100% focused on herself. She has never had to learn the value of a dollar because her parents paid her rent when she got out of college and was working an entry level job.

My ex, who I regret ditching often, was rather homely. She wasn't fat or hideous, but I definitely didn't have to worry about her going out to the bars and getting hit on. She was also rather boring- kind of what was alluded to in your post, I was going through my crazy party all the time phase with tons of friends, and she was painfully shy and quiet and would more or less just sit in the corner at the bar and wait for me to tell her its time to go home. I dumper her because of this. Yet she came from a very middle class background as well- her parents delightfully showed me pictures of her in their apartment in queens running around naked at 6 years old because they didn't have A/C. She appreciated everything I did for her- she would even buy dessert or drinks after if I bought her dinner. Living in an apt complex on the water w/ roommates was impressive to her. A reasonably sized but dumpy walk up in Williamsburg that was close to the train was all she ever wanted in life. We never fought- we had exactly one fight where I was mad at her for a mistake she unintentionally made that I got over in about 10 minutes. She f'ed like a champ and I get a lot more excited thinking about her than I do w/ my current woman who has an ass you can bounce a quarter off of (which costs a grand every 3 months for personal training).

I am going to stop because I am on the verge of rambling if I am not passed that already. My point is- that hot girl in the designer dress at the club asking for a drink too soon is bound to give you nothing but trouble. That hot body is guaranteed to look pretty crappy in 10 years, and she will be convinced she needs even more expensive clothes to cover it up, and wants to move back into a 3000+ sq ft house ASAP. Marry the girl who expects little and appreciates whatever comes her way. You will be WAY happier.

good lord, your building is sick. is it a condo or rental? if the latter my guess is you live in the chelsea landmark.

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zip's picture

someotherguy wrote: My ex,

zip
     PE
 
(Orangutan, 262
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 10:58am
someotherguy:

My ex, who I regret ditching often, was rather homely. She wasn't fat or hideous, but I definitely didn't have to worry about her going out to the bars and getting hit on. She was also rather boring- kind of what was alluded to in your post, I was going through my crazy party all the time phase with tons of friends, and she was painfully shy and quiet and would more or less just sit in the corner at the bar and wait for me to tell her its time to go home. I dumper her because of this. Yet she came from a very middle class background as well- her parents delightfully showed me pictures of her in their apartment in queens running around naked at 6 years old because they didn't have A/C. She appreciated everything I did for her- she would even buy dessert or drinks after if I bought her dinner. Living in an apt complex on the water w/ roommates was impressive to her. A reasonably sized but dumpy walk up in Williamsburg that was close to the train was all she ever wanted in life. We never fought- we had exactly one fight where I was mad at her for a mistake she unintentionally made that I got over in about 10 minutes. She f'ed like a champ and I get a lot more excited thinking about her than I do w/ my current woman who has an ass you can bounce a quarter off of (which costs a grand every 3 months for personal training).

haha whats your ex up to these days? i'd go find her if i were you...or just give me her info

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bobbymac's picture

Great post! Obviously, there

bobbymac
     O
 
(Monkey, 47
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 11:03am

Great post! Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule and MOST readers understand that.

If if don't make dollars, it don't make sense.

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PiperJaffrayChiang's picture

If she doesn't sign the

PiperJaffrayChiang
     IB
 
(Senior Gorilla, 815
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 11:27am

If she doesn't sign the pre-nup it's over, no fairy tale forever together bs.

=========================================
We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

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Bigmonkeyballs's picture

Great post. The issue is

Bigmonkeyballs
     ST
 
(Senior Chimp, 26
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 11:29am

Great post.

The issue is that the grass is always greener on the other side, and for that, men are doomed to failure. (okay, atleast most of us).

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chewingum's picture

Agree 100% with the

chewingum
     IB
 
(Baboon, 150
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 11:35am

Agree 100% with the selfishness part. Not sure whether others identify with this, but I recognize that I'm far too selfish to offer/sacrifice anything that would be a long-term incentive for them to stick around. Since they're going to end up taking half (or worse) of my stuff anyway, why bother?

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Bottles and DCF Models's picture

Edmundo Braverman wrote: "Let

Bottles and DCF...
     CF
 
(Senior Monkey, 93
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 11:50am
Edmundo Braverman:

"Let us leave the beautiful women to men with no imagination..." - Marcel Proust

What the f*ck does that mean?

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chewingum's picture

Also, Proust was a homosexual

chewingum
     IB
 
(Baboon, 150
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 12:25pm

Also, Proust was a homosexual so he would probably find it easy to leave the beautiful women to other men.

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swaggerisaliability's picture

chewingum wrote: Also, Proust

swaggerisaliability
     HF
 
(Baboon, 115
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 12:45pm
chewingum:

Also, Proust was a homosexual so he would probably find it easy to leave the beautiful women to other men.

That would make sense.

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Stringer Bell's picture

Quoting Neo "there is no

Stringer Bell
     IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,509
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 12:57pm

Quoting Neo "there is no spoon,". You're fucked the minute you enter into a legally binding fudiciary agreement with a woman.

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UKtop's picture

Amen.

UKtop
     ER
 
(Monkey, 58
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 1:12pm

Amen.

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MagicKarp's picture

Lol... "there... is no

MagicKarp
     IB
 
(Baboon, 156
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 1:23pm

Lol... "there... is no spoon..."

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1.21 gigawatts's picture

I disagree with this post and

1.21 gigawatts
    
 
(Baboon, 101
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 1:39pm

I disagree with this post and think it crosses the line of what this blog was intended for. At any rate, success in marriage is achieved by living and applying correct principles regardless of whether you are in your 20's, 30's ...... etc.

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GeeketteQ's picture

Oh uncle Eddie, I suspect

GeeketteQ
     O
 
(Chimp, 9
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 1:49pm

Oh uncle Eddie, I suspect vacations @ yours are never boring. Great tale.

@someotherguy: sounds like you're holding on to hell just to claim the badge of dating someone hotter than you. +your 1 bad experience doesn't establish that all beautiful (whatever that means) women are whiny bizatches.

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TNA's picture

1) Always get a Pre Nup 2)

TNA
     O
 
 
(Human, 11,678
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 1:54pm

1) Always get a Pre Nup

2) Grow some balls and keep them. Too many men do not relish battling. Once you know you can get ass having the one you got leave because you put your foot down isn't a life ending event

3) You might be alone, but you are not lonely. Huge difference.

4) Marriage is a lot like homeownership, kids, taxes and speed limits. Bullshit you are fed from birth that people think they must do or follow. Try being different, might surprise yourself.

PS. My parents have been married for 30+ years

When it comes to ass, remember kids "rent, don't buy"

MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter

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Edmundo Braverman's picture

LOL @ TonyD Ask any pilot,

Edmundo Braverman
     ST
 
 
(Human, 11,075
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 2:03pm

LOL @ TonyD

Ask any pilot, yachtsman, or husband:

If it flies, floats, or fucks, you're better off renting it!

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IFeelVolatile's picture

Interesting to see all these

IFeelVolatile
     O
 
(Senior Chimp, 29
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 2:06pm

Interesting to see all these male perspectives. Me, I personally feel that 40s is the best time for men to get married. By that age they should know themselves well and consequently, know how to treat others.

The one sad truth though is that men are like art. They appreciate overtime. Women are like cars. They lose value as soon as ya drive'em outta the dealership. This post seems directed toward the gents, but I have to say: Ladies, think thrice before you put that 24k rock on your finger!

Look at that subtle off-white coloring. The tasteful thickness of it. Oh my God, it even has a watermark.

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LIBOR's picture

blong131 wrote: LIBOR

LIBOR
     EN
 
(Neanderthal, 2,281
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 2:35pm
blong131:
LIBOR:

Great post, once again.

My parents met at 16 flipping burgers at McDonald's. They got married at 22, and have been happy ever since (now 50). Anyway, I used to think I wanted just that, to find someone early in life and settle down. Recently, I've been rethinking that philosophy, and this post only helped to affirm this new perspective. Your point about each person being selfish in their early 20's is dead on. I look forward to the rest of this series. Thanks again man

you definitely dream of meeting the perfect girl at motherburger.

i went there today for lunch with two girls... oh yeah

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?

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bcbunker1's picture

Anyone know P(D | M=before

bcbunker1
     ST
 
(Orangutan, 295
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 2:37pm

Anyone know P(D | M=before 20)? It looks like we are given P(M=before 20 | D)=.117. I guess we would need to use Bayes theorem to get P(D | M=before 20)=.117*P(D)/P(M=before 20).

ElijahPrice:
Edmundo Braverman:

If you get married before age 20, you've actually got a halfway decent shot of making it to the finish line. Only 11.7% of men who got married before age 20 ended up divorced. Who knew shotgun weddings were the way to go? In fairness, the numbers are little different for women. 27.6% of women married before age 20 ended up divorced. I attribute the disparity to the number of 50-year old guys who marry 19-year old girls and then trade them in for a newer model when they reach drinking age.

If you get married in your 20's, however, the numbers get downright ugly. We often hear the statistic that 50% of marriages end up in divorce, and that's kinda true, but it comes from aggregate numbers. The real number is even higher if you get married in your 20's (53% for women and 61.1% for men). This basically means that 72.8% of men and 80.6% of women who got married before age 30 wound up divorced. Still like your odds?
http://www.divorcerate.org/
http://www.meninmarriage.com/article05.htm

Edmundo,

Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but you are reading the stats wrong. The stats on divorcerate.org are not the percentage of married people who get divorced, but the percentage of divorced people by age.

So it's not 11.7% of men who got married before age 20 ended up divorced, but 11.7% of divorced men were under the age of 20 when they were married. 88.3% is the percentage of male divorcees that were older than 20 when they were married, not the percentage of men who got married before 20 and are still married. And so on and so forth for the rest of the stats.

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Envest's picture

Quick advice for people from

Envest
     ST
 
(Senior Chimp, 19
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 2:54pm

Quick advice for people from other parts of the world, especially poorer nations (in my case). If it is possible date women who have same background as you. Very similar to what Edmundo wrote, you will understand where you are coming from.

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whooop's picture

I've been trying to preach to

whooop
     IB
 
(Monkey, 62
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 3:13pm

I've been trying to preach to my small town friends about how absolutely stupid it is to get married for about 3 years no..around the age of 19-23. I forget That most really don't have much going for them and have absolutely boring lifes with nothing to look forward to but marriage/kids/ working as a pipe liner or oil rig roughneck. It's amazing how small town societies function.

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iamcroissant's picture

Your use of statistics is

iamcroissant
     IB
 
(Chimp, 1
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 4:44pm

Your use of statistics is criminal. None of the stats you listed establish anything. I was going to point out the mistakes but there are far too many to bother.

Strip that away, and all that's left are bitter, subjective tirades with no substance or anything in the way of evidence except "experience" - experience of your own foolhardy mistakes.

And any mention of a prenup is laughable...

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streetn's picture

His use of statistics maybe

streetn
     IB
 
(Monkey, 55
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 5:13pm

His use of statistics maybe wrong and an individual is not a statistic. However despite the misinterpretation the fact remains that of all individuals that divorce, the majority married in the 20-24 category.Even the misinterpreted statistics still serves adequately to get the point across that although your emotions our clouding your judgement into thinking you will stay together for judgement day, it probably will not happen.

That being said if one is intelligent, reflective, sufficiently well researched in the topic of marriage and human relationships, and reviews this decision critically and cool headedly the point at which one marries does not matter, what solely matters is that one is able to evaluate the decision critically. Of course this becomes easier with experience and age, something that can only be acquired through life experience so to speak.

iamcroissant, why the overly spiteful destruction of his post? Any insecurities of your own?

What I do find itneresting tough with the statistics is causation isnt entirely clear. Sure one can argue that people that marry at an older age are wiser and have learned earlier lessons, however one can also argue that beyond a certain age once is forced to stay commit as remarriage is not an option anymore(especially for woman), differentiating between those 2 effects is difficult.

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abeysomone's picture

The above thought is smart

abeysomone
     IB
 
(Chimp, 1
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 7:40pm

The above thought is smart and doesn’t require any further addition. It’s perfect thought from my side.
. This is a wonderful opinion. The things mentioned are unanimous and needs to be appreciated by everyone
Compare ISAs
thanks

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tandaradei's picture

Wow, Edmundo, I think I'm

tandaradei
     IB
 
 
(Senior Baboon, 231
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 7:57pm

Wow, Edmundo, I think I'm gonna keep this one, it's that good. There is a book deal here somewhere.

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whats-the-damage's picture

Edmundo Braverman wrote:

whats-the-damage
     IB
 
(Baboon, 143
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 8:42pm
Edmundo Braverman:

This basically means that 72.8% of men and 80.6% of women who wound up divorced got married before age 30.

Although this is a correct statement, it is probably misleading a lot of people. You should probably mention the fact that most people get married before they are 30, so it MAKES SENSE that most divorced couples happened to get married before they were 30. For example, here's some fake data on cars that blow up:

# of blue cars that blow up: 1
# of red cars that blow up: 3

Then you take that info and say the following: 75% of cars that blew up were red. But you fail to mention the following:

# of blue cars in the world: 3
# of red cars in the world: 7

Of course 75% of cars that blew up were red.... 70% of the cars in the world are red!!!! Edmundo, you completely left out the information about the percentage of couples that get married before they're 30. That would completely change the reaction to your statement.

Overall, great post. Here's how I look at it: don't rush marriage, but don't run off the love of your life because you're afraid of what your friends might think when you tell them you're getting married. Follow your heart, but be smart about it.

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Bottles and DCF Models's picture

What I take from this is that

Bottles and DCF...
     CF
 
(Senior Monkey, 93
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 9:56pm

What I take from this is that you should marry because you feel like that you only want to be with one person for the rest of your life. I don't think most people go into marriage thinking like that. They get married because they love someone or because of the social pressure or because of the thought of raising a family. That's all well and good but if both parties aren't committed to being with one person in perpetuity, then chances are it's not going to work out.

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dorsia reservations's picture

Iamcroissant, I don't post as

dorsia reservations
     O
 
(Baboon, 165
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 10:06pm

Iamcroissant, I don't post as often as most on here, but

YOU ARE A CLOWN.

Whether or not you agree with his statements, the fact still remains that Edmundo took the time out to try and explain what he learned in life to the rest of us. He didn't, nor doesn't have to do that. You might disagree on certain points, but he still took the time out, as someone that has lived the life (at least in terms of working on the street) that many of us are aspiring to/going to/doing.

I am reminded of when I played little league baseball growing up. The umpires were volunteers by and large, and most parents were well behaved, but of course, you had the parents who were so sure their kid was Derek Jeter, but that the umps/coaches/teammates were out to get them.

Usually, it was the worst kid on the team that had the parents that were screaming at the volunteering umpires/coaches. I see interesting parallels.

Edmundo, keep it up, I'm getting a lot out of these posts.

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sanjose04's picture

One of your best! I agree

sanjose04
     IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 236
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 10:10pm

One of your best! I agree most of the points you have made.

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ke18sb's picture

I think the whole concept of

ke18sb
     IB
 
 
(Senior Gorilla, 853
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 10:14pm

I think the whole concept of waiting on marriage can be boiled down to this:

Wait until everything in your life is fully stabilized and then get married.

Basically, in our 20's so much is changing, careers, education, location, friends, relationships, lifestyle, etc. We don't know what we want and we are still experimenting. Sure you can be in a relationship and be in love and want to marry but we are still growing as individuals during this time period. Maybe your girlfriend doesn't mind your hours now but will grow to resent them later. Maybe you want to live abroad but she doesn't want to. Maybe she wants to go to grad school in another state. Who knows what can happen in this adjustment period. Its easy to grow apart. There is nothing wrong with that, its just life. Trying to grow and find yourself while being connected so someone else can be difficult and the statistics show this. I'm not saying to not have relationships but maybe you should slow down and not actually get married. Wait it out if you are still in your 20's and make sure you are growing together and not apart. Once everything more or less stabilized then propose and get married. Your stability will not insure a successful marriage but I'm sure it will help, numbers don't lie.

Then again, what do I know.

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Hayek's picture

I'm really not in much of a

Hayek
     CO
 
(Orangutan, 255
 
Points)
  on 6/16/10 at 11:55pm

I'm really not in much of a position to shell out relationship/marriage advice, but I think Edmundo is REALLY on to something in suggesting that the closer both people are in background/family life, the better. I had a very middle class life growing up with periods of lower middle income due to some family situations, and I found that my two best relationships were with girls who came from similar backgrounds (both were first generation americans whose parents moved here from Asia / Russia). I've dated girls from upper middle class backgrounds who had everything handed to them throughout life (although none would admit it or are even aware of it) and in retrospect I was foolish to think there was long term potential.

My parents were happily married and came from shockingly similar childhoods and backgrounds, right down to the breakdown of where their ancestors came from on both sides.

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levelworm's picture

Totally agree with the "same

levelworm
     O
 
(Orangutan, 282
 
Points)
  on 6/17/10 at 4:18am

Totally agree with the "same background" idea. Arranged marriages in my country last much longer than the other marriage. BTW our parents are usually wiser than us.

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MSH's picture

im a firm believer in

MSH
     ST
 
(Chimp, 15
 
Points)
  on 6/17/10 at 6:02am

im a firm believer in learning from other peoples actions, i really appreciate edmundo putting his experience, his lessons and thoughts together and trying to guide the younger generation. its evident from the posts that the people who should really follow this advice and reconsider their actions are somehow trying to "justify" their decisions, and they feel they are the exception and not the rule.

now even though im not in much of a positions to be giving advice hence ive never been married i want to say that; woman are on the sell side in the beginning while dating. by that i mean they are selling themselves as "a catch", they want to appear as perfect as possible. but the reality is only their true personality will come out after the ring is on the finger and your living together and virtually bonded by a legal contract. its only then when living day to day; sleeping in the same bed, seeing each other first thing in the morning and last thing at night, dealing with each others stress, issues, and problems. this is when peoples true colors come out, sadly at that point its too late and while you thought you were the exception and not the rule think back and remember that edmundo tried to warn you

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veritas14's picture

We are taking longer to

veritas14
     ST
 
(Gorilla, 673
 
Points)
  on 6/17/10 at 12:51pm

We are taking longer to finish school, establish careers, form an identity beyond adolescent behavior.
Marriage and parenthood --- goods for the individual, family and society-- are now seen as just another option, an "alternative", a "lifestyle choice".

Human biology does not obey our ideas of the good life. Biological clock is ticking...

*********************************
“The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde

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streetn's picture

Human biology also never

streetn
     IB
 
(Monkey, 55
 
Points)
  on 6/17/10 at 3:52pm

Human biology also never intended us to wear shoes, eat processed carbohydrates or possess washing machines.

Ill see you in the cave bro

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Total votes: 456
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