60 Minutes aired a segment on Peter Thiel's Fellows Program earlier today. For those unfamiliar with the program, Thiel handpicks 20 - 24 of the most promising students across the nation and pays them 100K to pursue their technological interests, with one major catch...they must drop out of college.
The students picked for the program not only represent Harvard and Stanford students, but students from smaller schools and even community colleges. Some are attempting to redesign biofuels, while others work on household robots. Regardless of these students pursuits, they are taking a big gamble on the future of Silicon Valley.
We all know the future that an Ivy League Education can open up. These kids are giving up a shot at IB, Consulting, Healthcare, etc, in favor of their entrepreneurial pursuits. Sure, the students can return to school if their ventures fail, but we know its not that black and white. By doing so, you're now 2 years behind your competition, with a fair amount of explaining to do.
What would you do if given this opportunity? Would you take the 100K and run? Or would you pass on the opportunity and continue your education? For the sake of argument, lets assume you're giving up your education at a target school. Is Peter Thiel someone who is thinking beyond the times, or is he out of touch with society, as the Duke Professor explains in the video? Would love to hear any opinions on this.
Given this is WSO, we all know the future that an Ivy League Education can bestow on one. These kids are giving up a sure-fire shot at IB or Consulting, in favor of their entrepreneurial pursuits. Sure, the students can return to school if their ventures fail, but we know its not that black and white. By doing so, you're now 2 years behind your competition, with a fair amount of explaining to do.
^---this paragraph makes me want to impale myself and why the majority of you who read this are fuckheads
Fair enough. That was a fairly pretentious comment to make. That being said, I didn't go to an Ivy, let alone a target. I'm just trying to draw a contrast between what these students are giving up by accepting this program.
you summed it up so perfectly
People in IB can make more than that their 1st year out, but if I was studying Ceramics at the University of Phoenix, YES!
I know a Thiel Fellow. Absolutely brilliant mind, and I expect to hear of absolutely tremendous things coming from their direction soon.
I don't believe you should discredit the ingenuity of this program as easily as you are. We all laughed at the Ivy schools' student clubs who infiltrated or protested campus presentations from the major banks, but they did have one point right: there's a "brain drain" where kids who have no idea what they want to do with themselves at Christmas junior year end up pursuing careers in banking or consulting by February of junior year simply because they saw their friends pursuing that track or went to a presentation for free food and heard the talks.
The problem with so many people of our generation (and I say this as a very young person) is risk aversion. No one has the stones to go out and do something with a risk of failure. The people who do are the complete outliers. "Smart" people stay in school because that's the path they've been told they have to follow. Study hard, get good scores, get into a good college, study hard, get good grades, get a great job, have a great career. What happened to taking risks? To swinging for the fences?
Many of our generation's smartest have bought into the myth that six-figure spending on education is the key to future success. Thiel is simply fulfilling what he believes is almost a moral obligation to society: taking our country's smartest and bankrolling them while they innovate for the greater good of all society. That is social entrepreneurship at its heart, and I really wish more people understood it and took it more seriously.
+1
Hit the nail right on the head.
Great point. A lot of what you said is in the book, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." haha.
Costs versus benefits, you graduate from school with a large debit you will never be able to pay it unless you were hired for 100k a year, this large amount money is what you need to borrow to pay for your business if you decide to make your own business, but now you are already in debit to pay your school, school is great but at these fees I don't think so, at least not for everybody, I don't even know why they call it fees? it's not fees anymore it's premium prices!
It's not the money! It's for the network and the mentors! Think about it, living and working with other hand-picked entrepreneurs and with some of the biggest names looking over your business- it's a dream. I know a number of the fellows, and from what I can tell, it was definitely the right choice for them.
That being said, I don't think I'm the entrepreneur type, so it wouldn't be the right path for me.
^ this
I might consider if it was 500K
I would say that Peter Thiel signaling is a lot better than Ivy league signaling.
That is, if I had two resumes to choose from, and one had participated in PT's program and the other had Harvard + BB internships, there isn't much question who I would choose to speak with.
I saw the 60 Minutes piece. Morley Safer seemed to be skeptical as well. I'm still unclear as to why not being in college is a prerequisite for Peter Thiel's program. I suppose his program gives him a forum to espouse his political ideas about the economy...and I guess that's the reason.
Coledge are ovur r8ted
Hey,
there is no doubt that our generation is becoming more risk averse. Especially, if you look at top undergrad business schools. How many people are highly talented, have above-average problem solving skills and amazing soft skills. These are the people IBs are primarily targeting. For what? Inputting some number in excel sheet templates using the Capital IQ excel plug in or for doing some research in order to update old pitch book presentation? I mean you don't really need someone who is brilliant in order to successfully complete this task. I know some guys that are freaking genii that have unbelievable skills in physics, astronomy, or neurobiology. And what are they doing? Going into IB... Why? Because they want the money... An economist would call that a deadweight loss because this simply is an absolutely inefficient allocation of resources. Recently, the CEO of a BB's national office just said himself the following: "I myself studied engineering. I liked it a lot because I had an affinity for solving scientific problems". Then, he become slightly emotional and was talking about this deadweight loss problem and inefficient allocation of resources. Well, he managed to catch himself again and said, "guys you gotta become investment bankers. it is just the best thing I could have ever done."
Now imagine, you're a young guy and have an amazing idea and you want to affect something with your idea. Should you pursue this dream or just go to investment banking, cashing in c. 100k in your first year with the target to become a great banker or PE dude in order to be wealthy enough to buy nice properties, cars, watches, and get a hot girl (you probably don't even know because there won't be much time to get to know her, however, at least she is hot). Well, I mean most ppl would chose the second path.
So now the question to you guys.. did you notice anything? The question is always: which door should I chose? Door A or door B? And this is the major issue most of us are facing. However, I have the opinion that it shouldn't be like this. From my standpoint, high school, college, university and a job are complementarities and not substitutes! Thinking back to when I was 13, I had my first business ideas. With 14 I launched my first website. Obviously, if I had to evaluate today, it was a complete joke. Nevertheless, I had strive to pursue something. And I still do. Yet, I went to a very good high school, then, I, accidently, went to a bad college and moved to another one. Finished college and now I am in IB or and thinking whether to do a Master's or MBA. Why? Even though I have the feeling that I'm like a think tank producing business ideas like Chinese production facility (quantitatively wise ), I am not matured enough to set up something great.. something with value. You don't need to do IB (this destroys a lot of ppl) but what you need to do is to improve your skills, and collect experience. Experience is the best teacher.
You might become successful with a stupid app like instagram and you don't really need a degree for such a business idea. I certainly don't deny that. But if you want to be successful in the long term you need more than just a funny idea that makes you rich. If you wanna become a succesful entrepreneur you have to be acknowledged by the ppl around you. The ones you work with, your competitors and anybody else. If you have really good business ideas now, you can also wait for another 2,3 years or even more. These ideas or new ideas will be much more valuable. Additionally, if you look at individuals like Thiel or the Samwer Brothers, being smart and innovative to choose the right door is only one part of the success story. Excellent execution is the key to walk through the door. This said, I am 100% sure that finishing a college degree and obtaining a Master's degree or even a phd will set up an excellent base in order to become not only a lucky rich someone but it will help you to become the one with a great, matured personality, strive, motivation… an outstanding leader.
One more thing.. don't let ppl squeeze you into their mold.
3 points:
1) 100k is not that much, esp in tech R&D - I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth it to work with Thiel, but he can sure afford a lot more
2) I'd have a lot more faith in dropping out if Thiel himself didn't hold a BA and JD from Stanford - now if it was someone who had actually dropped out (Gates) it's a different story
3) As it stands, it just seems like a jerk move - why wouldn't he just let the kids finish their undergrads and then take a year or two? Not having a college degree is a major setback and I think too much to ask.
In regards to your third point I would bet that the 24 kids he picked, should their tech ventures fail spetacuarly, they will have no issue getting back into colleges or going forward with their lives. He isn't picking 25 kids at random, handing them 100 grand and saying go pursue your dreams. I think that when you are talking about the best and brightest they will almost always come out ahead regardless of what they do.
Bill Gates dropped out of what college? Paul allen Dropped out of what college? John Hewitt Dropped out of what college?
John Jacob Astor attended what college?
College isn't for everyone...You can make it without it...as Will Hunting showed us
Bill Gates dropped out of what college? Paul allen Dropped out of what college? John Hewitt Dropped out of what college?
John Jacob Astor attended what college?
College isn't for everyone...You can make it without it...as Will Hunting showed us
Agreed, but I wouldn't base my argument that college isn't for everyone by citing a few exceptional guys. Yes, you point out some college dropout at the top. First, those people were exceptional to begin with and were likely going to make it- with or without college. The key word being "exceptional". But, in the legendary companies founded by college dropouts, all the way from upper management down to the entry-level guy, most positions required the employee to have a college degree. Consider the irony there. Try to apply to work at Apple or Microsoft without a college degree- good luck; not impossible, but extremely improbable. And if you are that good, you probably should go out on your own.
Hundreds of people win the lottery, significantly more than the exceptional individuals that would qualify to make you list, every year; that doesn't make a good argument for putting in minimal effort and playing the lottery day.
The cost/benefit analysis, the practicality and the usefulness of a degree would be far more persuasive.
Don't get me wrong, we need college, but the return on investment isn't always good. But we also need plummers, priests, presidents, and risk takers.
2 years behind the curve isn't bad and If i was interviewing a kid who took 100k to develop his dream, I'd hire him because of his hunger to want to make something of himself
Do you really need a college degree to be a "vice president of business development" at a software company? Or to be a programmer? Read this: http://www.paulgraham.com/credentials.html
This is a great opportunity. Imagine if you didn't get into the school of your choice the first time around and you were selected for this (that would be less likely as I imagine these students are probably pretty gifted). Should this not work out, when you apply 2 years later with entrepreneurial and life experience, that would be a nice boon to one's resume.
P.S. I wonder if he gets first dibs on any idea that works...
I feel that he needs that additional clause to draw out those who aren't overly risk averse. To be honest, if you were allowed to complete your degree, what would separate this program from any of the other random 2 year programs that you could do post-graduation and get paid for? Don't know what to do with life? Join TFA, go do a 2 year finance program, or become a Thiel Fellow. For him to allow the students to graduate would essentially take the "risk" out of it and attract kids who still could be risk averse and use it more as an additional credential rather than what the intent of the actual program is.
By forcing you to drop out, it's taking that cushion away. There's now some actual risk and uncertainty (although still not that much since these students are coming from some of the best institutions anyway) which would make the ones without the cojones shy away. I think it's a good clause to weed out those who are really "about that life"
I mean, you can probably name thousands upon thousands of other kids who dropped out of college and yet they didn't succeed. You only hear about winners. I think that you can look at a group of kids and maybe figure out which are bright enough to succeed or who are already succeeding without the structure that is provided by schooling. Even then I think you will still miss on some who are brilliant but their ideas just didn't take. That is predominantly what I would argue school is for in the first place. It gives you a structure and a path. Not necessarily a great one, but at least something for the multitude of people who aren't cut out for striking out on their own.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/r4htttRMpk8
self explanitory
It's not exactly the same (because of the amount of $ upfront), but how many of you would go to 4 years of college if you could be a 1st round pick in the NBA or NFL after your sophomore year? Nearly zero because you go take the money and use college as a fallback.
In my opinion, this is a similar circumstance. This is a chance of a lifetime in Silicon Valley for ~20 people a year, the only downside is potentially delaying college. The upside is tremendous.
When you get the opportunity to be a star in the field you're pursuing - you jump at it. The WORST case scenario is that you have an amazing 2 year experience on your resume (that is much more selective and prestigious than an SA anywhere) and you go back to college.
I actually even think 2 years in college, then 2 years as a Thiel Fellow and 2 more years of college is actually a pretty badass resume anyways.
It's not exactly the same (because of the amount of $ upfront), but how many of you would go to 4 years of college if you could be a 1st round pick in the NBA or NFL after your sophomore year? Nearly zero because you go take the money and use college as a fallback.
In my opinion, this is a similar circumstance. This is a chance of a lifetime in Silicon Valley for ~20 people a year, the only downside is potentially delaying college. The upside is tremendous.
When you get the opportunity to be a star in the field you're pursuing - you jump at it. The WORST case scenario is that you have an amazing 2 year experience on your resume (that is much more selective and prestigious than an SA anywhere) and you go back to college.
I actually even think 2 years in college, then 2 years as a Thiel Fellow and 2 more years of college is actually a pretty badass resume anyways.
Shorttheworld - spoken like a true uncharacteristic wall street monkey. These entrepreneurs not only have the vision but balls to pursue their dreams.... No wonder the street only attracts the most desperate and ridiculed alpha types.
Speaking of IB/Consulting-how many monkeys you know of make more than 20m over their whole career. Lets not delude ourselves fellas. The street has lost its luster, balls and character. Too many feeble guys working there now.
I don't understand in which direction this is going. Obviously, some people just think that college is not necessary. I wouldn't even drop out of college of thiel offered me 5m. If your idea is really good you'll find other investors at a later point.
Of course, there are people that dropped out of college but seriously how many did and ended up like fucked up dogs on the streets.
To be a successfully investment banker you wouldn't need college either. That doesn't necessarily mean that banks would start hiring high school grads ...
At the top of the highest paid in Hollywood last year, James Cameron, Johnny Depp, Steven Spielberg-none held a degree before starting their careers. A year old list of 40 most influential people in Hollywood, only 8/40 completed a 4 year degree before making it (would post the list but, this is WSO not HWO). Now Hollywood’s a different beast but, I could name few local business leaders who have no degree. In the grand scope of things, it’s actually quite surprising. And for those who say how many “thousands fail for ever one who succeed” How many of you wake up and compare yourself to every living person on an equal level? Or tell yourself, if you aren't white, you have little chance of becoming wealthy, and might be better off just flipping burgers? No, its perseverance and doing what you want!!
Medium household income in America is $44,000-50ish. Almost half the world lives in poverty. We are all born into advantages and disadvantages to accomplish our goals. Geography, Race, sex, wealth, intelligence, personality. Learn to cope with what you are given. Make sacrifices. And just fucking do it!
The University does not authentically teach you rather it is the experience from the job that your education allows you the opportunity to have. It is this experience that is the best teacher and allows one to translate learned knowledge into market value.
We joke a lot at work about our breaking point. You actually can put a value on just about any alternative. Would be interesting to see some popular answers graphed out.
One of our favorites, Charlotte. How much would you have to be paid to go work at BAML in Charlotte?
Not an incredible amount...golf all the time
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