http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-02/harvard-…
Interesting article that should hit a nerve with the demographics on this site.
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brady?
Dang. What is to top these schools from saying they were "overly academic and not rounded enough"??
Lol, thisll be hard to prove cus when you walk around harvard campus, all you see is asians, indians and orientals. sounds like this kid is just being a whiny bitch cus he/she didnt get in.
although, being an indian, i did notice this. my performance was significantly higher than some of my friends in high school and i was rejected at harvard but i know someone who had ... well basically lower everything... and he got in. kind of disappointing but i am glad cus it lead to better things.
"Orientals"
Lmao this isn't the 1960's grandpa
This post is going to be a shitshow. Harvard has their own notions of what the class demographics should be. People compare this to the Jewish incident earlier this century, but let's frame this differently:
In Israel, those who study Torah are subsidized by the state. This went from a once tiny percent of the population to an ever increasing amount of people who, you guessed it, are subsidized by the state and refuse to get regular jobs. This will become a crisis. Harvard's own motivation is unclear to me, but if you consider that the overwhelming majority of Asian kids are bookworms, they might be commenting on particular demographics, even if indirectly. There is more to business and much more to life than getting A's. Just as much as the larger segment of the population has to take the minority viewpoint into consideration, the minority population is not and should not be immune to commentary from the larger. If this sounds unfair, it is. The minority, and with asians we're talking a very small minority, will not realistically be allowed to influence too much greater influence than their numbers indicate before a correction.
Do I agree with this logic? Not necessarily. Is that the way it is? Yes. Deal with it.
i can think of an even smaller majority with much more influence than their numbers would suggest.
To be fair, Harvard doesn't want a 40% asian class, THAT'S what this is about. On Harvard's behalf, look at the schools that ARE predominantly asian, and realize that these are research schools. If the stereotype is true and asian kids are better at academics, then be honest with yourself and realize that the majority of them don't want to work regular jobs. For the ones that DO want to work in business and show promise but were not admitted, yeah, they got screwed and should press their case.
Not surprising. This is quite well known, and there is ample empirical evidence to support this. Asians are the most discriminated group in America today, akin to jews during the 1920's and blacks before the civil rights movement.
Yeah Brady, let me know when we start requiring Asians to sit in the back of the bus and attend Asian-only schools.
You mean like the Coolies who were basically Chinese slaves and built the rail roads? Or maybe the Nips, opps, I mean Japanese Americans that we interned during WWII.
I read many of these negative posts and I feel sick of them. I'm a 5'7 Vietnamese guy with accent when I speak English. I always stand out in groups, school, and workplace. When I study in Mexico, I have no problem getting close to french, white, black, asian and mexican women even though we barely understand each other. We went to club, parties etc. An Asian girl gave me a kiss out of the blue and a white girl gets very excite when she sees me. I have dated many girls. This is because I'm good looking, wear 7 jeans, Hugo Boss, and have a nice personality. At a company's holiday party, a senior partner came over my table and introduced herself to me. This is because I'm in sales and my production is up there. I wear Hugo Boss suite and shoes. I look confident and positive. I don't know you people so I don't have to make up these stories.
If you walk around with your face down, messy hair, sloppy clothes, you won't get respect from any body. So pm me if you need some tips and stop whining with your negative experiences. It's true that people like to work and be around with people who look like them.
Hahahahaha why is this not on a cover letter?
This is true - and as shameful as Jew quotas back in the day.
Honestly who cares? If it were based soley on numbers there would be little diversification on campus. They cant take all valedictorians that have 2400s on their SATs. The class would be boring and largely unsuccessful, the success rate that IVYs get is based more on the diversification of their classes. Im not saying that they take stupid kids over smart ones however they have to diversify the class for the overall success of the class. Does this suck for the kids who have good enough stats to get in? Sure it does but they arent alone in that, there are thousands of kids who could get in but didnt.
Also that claim is almost impossible to back up. Your an asian and you didnt get in? Guess what there is an asian over there who did.
You're missing the point. The problem is not that schools are accepting a diverse class, which I believe is important. The issue is that top colleges routinely accept minorities with much lower stats than their white and asian counterparts and hold asians in particular to a higher standard than other ethnic groups. It amounts to de facto discrimination since there's a limited number of spots in each class. Hence, for every upper-middle class black kid with mediocre credentials who gets in because he's black, an extremely well-qualified Asian is denied admission solely due to his race.
Agreed. Fuck reverse discrimination.
I'm going to get a lot of shit for this, but oh well.
The reverse is the case. Harvard had to review its policies at one point because the class was becomming LESS diverse because one group figured out how to game the system: get good grades to the exclusion of everything else.This sucks for asian kids because they're already being reverse discriminated against to have higher grades, so that part needs to change. I remember back in high school, my best friend was Indian and he deeply resented the fact that he had to get higher scores. This part of the equation IS discrimination.
AND YES, Harvard is run by a bunch of WASPY bastards who don't want too many of 'those people'. FWIW they don't like my type that much either. Screw 'em, I'll go to a different school and kick ass there.
So what?
Racial diversity is overrated. The diversity that counts is life experiences, skills and talents, different perspectives, etc.
So you're cool with Jewish quotas of yesteryear?
BTW, I'm not for Harvard's policy, I'm just exploring the concept....
Yes im cool with that. You seem to think that is a bad thing. However its not, competition is based on your peers. Who are your closest peers? People of your race. The government has these schools by their balls. They tell them you have to accept a relative percentage of all races. When you have 18% asians you are cutting some other race out. These damn asian kids are just whinny little bithces who are pissed that they arent interesting enough so they go cry to the government. The same government who put the percentage restrictions on schools in the first place.
Haha, I'm glad race comes first to you when defining peer group.
heister, I'm fine with your position. I just wanted to make sure you were intellectually consistent.
I think private universities should be able to do whatever the fuck they want (but I also agree the government shouldn't fund them).
Public universities should be a 100% scholastic meritocracy.
Im just saying its not fair for the government to put percentage restrictions on schools while bashing them for putting people of the same race up for competition against people of the same race. In that view the fact that black kids with lower stats doesnt have any bearing on asian kids with higher stats. If you want it to be totally based on stats then the government needs to bug out of the whole admissions quotas.
BBG article is racist. African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Hispanics - and white with no capital letter. Political correctness, you say?
The federal government doesn't put percentage restrictions on schools.
Look at CalTech & Harvey Mudd. Two private schools with the two highest SAT averages in the US. Not diverse at all.
Poor asians.
They did everything right, they even changed their asian name to a 'white' 'irish' name and still get cock blocked.
Damn lol
I can assure you, plenty of asians want to work "regular" jobs.
The fact that high end research schools are massively overrepresented by Asians just illustrates the academic dominance (same with Jewish people, who are also massively overrepresented).
i'm ok with all of this. i just want harvard to come out and say: "we discriminate against asians and indians today, just like we discriminated against jews and greaseballs yesterday."
they can't be simultaneously racist and all high and mighty with their liberal PC diversity bullshit.
These schools, namely private institutions, make it clear that they want the top from each demographic and it appears as if this is precisely what they are doing. The bottom line is that if your family stresses academics from day 1, performing exceptionally isn't nearly as impressive as performing exceptionally if those around you are doing nothing.
Additionally, plenty of people crying discrimination completely ignore the soft factors. So many people fit the exact same profile: High grades, test scores, academic extra-curriculars, strong in music, interested in pursuing STEM, .. I'd doubt an Asian person who played varsity hockey, sung in an A Capella group and was interested in majoring in philosophy or English literature would face the same barriers.
I realize this isn't exactly the same situation but my high school, a relatively large public high school had a ridiculous number of top performers. We consistently had the highest test scores in the state, the most ap scholars and were ridiculously strong in certain sports (tennis, golf, ...). Certain schools, particularly the small liberal arts colleges such as Williams, Amherst and Pomona each explicitly stated that they would aim to take a max of two people each year from our high school. As a result, plenty of top performers were rejected from schools they likely would have gotten into had they gone to a different high school. Was this suck at the time? Definitely, but one thing I noticed later on was that nearly everyone I knew continued to perform exceptionally once they got to college. Had everyone got into slightly more selective schools, this likely would not have been the case.
While you may not be impressed by people who have been in families that have valued academics for the length of the lives of their children, I simply must stress that that is irrelevant to actual results.
I'm in part playing devil's advocate. My true beliefs don't necessarily reflect what I am posting, but there is something to be said for looking for potential or at least taking it into account rather than focusing purely on past performance. There is an argument to be made that those who never had any of the advantages growing up yet still performed well will be able to surpass everyone else once they begin to receive the same advantages. If statistics/past experience shows that those who were a part of affirmative action type programs outperformed those who were not (which they may not, I do not really know enough about it), this would be a pretty solid reason to have such policies.
I know at my high school, those people who were a part of the "A Better Chance" program in general did much better than the general population. http://www.abetterchance.org/abetterchance.aspx?pgID=868 It is very possible, however, that this does not hold true at the college level.
Just pretend you are in china and would have to face even fiercer competition?
See, Liberals don't actually care about anyone. They only care about power. Hence why they push for AA and all types of entitlements that only help certain "minorities". This isn't about fairness, it is about power.
And I think more Asians and Indians should sue and make a stink. They haven't been brain washed with PC bullshit yet and they can still see outrageous unfairness when it smacks them in the face. The rest of the sheep in America just go along with this reverse racism.
Just like hate crimes. Funny how I never see non-whites charged with this offense.
Hmmmmmmm
I sometimes get the feeling you're a closet Liberal. Whenever you seem to dislike anything, it always appears to be the damn liberals fault.
I wonder if you're actually acting up out of some sort of reactionary fear that you're actually starting to agree with those dirty hippies.
Are you debating that Ivy League institutions tend to be extremely liberal? I really don't think that is something we need to debate.
And isn't the liberal ideology one on helping the poor, fighting evil big business and promoting "fairness"? Hence gay rights, affirmative action, pro choice?
ANT, Amen!
When liberals talk about diversity and tolerance, they're only referring to blacks, gays, and hispanics. They could care less about poor whites or asians.
It infuriates me that so many asians voted for obama in 2008 when the democratic party does not represent their interests. Democrats are for more government handouts, punishment of success, and granting special treatment to blacks. It's time that asians woke up and smelled the coffee.
I am not certain why Asians tend to lean Democratic despite their economic success but I would theorize it is because of the GOP's immigration policies. If anyone has a strong view on this topic I'd be interested in hearing it.
Deleted
I'm going to go here one last time: a lot of asians that I personally know think that because their grades are better than mine (and they are), they should always get better jobs (they often do). Thing is, I remember when I was on the engineering campus and most of those guys either (1) went on to get phds and then research or (2) went to work at a tech firm. Almost none started a company, none applied for finance jobs, definitely none went to a non-technical/business grad school, exactly one joined the military (air force reserve officer), and the only ones that did charity work were applying for MBAs. Do you think that MBA programs haven't figured out if a population is gaming the system? Harvard isn't a science and technology school: it's a global leadership school. A lot of people get caught up in chasing after prestige, but there's more to it than that.
If an asian kid is actually brilliant or has awesome grades and test scores, leadership (real leadership), ECs, etc... I fail to see why they weren't considered: Harvard should be sued. If the kid simply sat around cranking out A's for 12 years and then joined a bunch of BS clubs senior year to put 'well rounded' on paper, adcom comittees know this.
It's like the guy above said, these kids for the most part are doing the same damn things like a checklist to get into top colleges....Top colleges caught on and like any decent institution should, encouraged different backgrounds. You want a campus filled with straight A, violin playing Math, Engineering, Bio, Chem and compsci majors running around in every good university?
It's boring, it doesn't inspire creativity and quite frankly it is in my opinion a digression from why people should be attending a university in the first place; original thought.
Asians and Admissions Discrimination (Originally Posted: 01/27/2013)
I've seen a lot of whites and blacks graduate from a top-notch undergraduate Ivy League and obtain their MBA from an Ivy League. However, while there are many Asians that graduate from a top-notch undergraduate Ivy League, those who do rarely graduate from a top MBA (think Harvard, Stanford). The issue with this is obviously discrimination in the admissions process.
My thought process is, since there is a clear discrimination against Asians, would an Asian from Stanford undergrad and UCLA MBA be viewed equivalently as a White/Black from Stanford undergrad and Harvard MBA?
Dude, just breathe.
2/10
Dude, MBA apps are silly as fuck nowadays. For example, I'm a non-minority, U.S. citizen, non-legacy.... if I literally started an IB at age 13 and cured cancer at 15, I still wouldn't get into an M3. I've heard numerous people complain about how surprised they are by the lack of "caliber" at top programs today. I wouldn't let it get to you because A) it doesn't mean shit anymore, and B) nothing good comes from discouragement.
Edit: Brady's ~5th account here?
Haha
Brady's Asian?
No, I'm in the most discriminated class - straight, young-professional, white male.
Brady - Here is something you can appreciate. Shows the duplicity that Liberals love to preach.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dncrime/Teens-in-cab-attack-will-not…
Three juveniles who allegedly assaulted a cab driver and his passenger in Center City Saturday night while shouting racial slurs will not be charged with a hate crime, according to the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office.
Do as I say, not as I do. If three white kids beat up a black kid while shouting racial slurs it would 100% be a hate crime. The same thing happens, but the roles are reversed and nothing happens.
But hey, gotta appease the voting block.
Liberals are some of the most disgusting people out there, and they are mostly responsible for the vast majority of this nation's problems since the 1960's. Imagine if white teens savagely attacked a black person and shouted racial slurs. Al Sharpton will spend his entire shitty MSNBC show talking about this racial injustice and how this "proves" that Obama needs to be re-elected.
Like integration?
Direct quote from the victim. "This is my very personal opinion, but I think in general race is a very easy culprit for a lot of issues and a lot of violence," he said. "Sometimes, it is the culprit behind it; however in this case I feel that it was pure, unmitigated violence."
This may be a stretch, but perhaps this had something to do with the fact that they were not charged with a hate crime?
UFO - Harvard wants its white people? No. Under a system that measured grades/scores exclusively the white percentage would stay the same.
when liberals start committing racism against asians and indians, what do you call that?
Fucking whinny bitches. Lets all cry that we didnt get into Harvard while tens if not hundereds of thousands of other kids didnt as well.
^^ and that is what they are doing. As someone who went to a prep school and watched as kids were trained in the art of getting into schools there is no way this is not a factor in why the stats are the way they are.
This country was built on diversity and only a fool would want to go down the road of admitting students on single or common criteria. Harvard is not Harvard because you can run into straight A students 100% of the time. It is a premier university because you will meet a gamut of different human beings who are all great in different areas(i.e. not just what you want to deem important). Are you saying that asians are all around more diversified than the U.S. population. Would we all do well to mimic Asian culture and behavior? Maybe everyone should stop playing sports and focus on classical music.
This argument is beyond foolish. Not unlike the lady who is encouraging people to sue honda for its civics performing slightly under the advertised MPG rate.
How could I have been so misguided? You're right. All cultures and habits are of equal value. Blacks cant be judged on their merits in the same way that asians can. It just wouldnt be fair - asians work too hard and are just too driven to succeed academically. What we need isnt more equality, what we need is more cosmic justice.
Judging by your ignorant rhetoric I will jump to the conclusion that you are saying Asian culture is more advanced than African. Of course I also have to jump to the conclusion that you mean African when you just say black.
In any case, how could I expect you to know the contributions of different cultures without first being educated. Well there is a reason the Romans did not discriminate based on race(and they still only lasted 400 years). But philosophy is lost on people like yourself so I'll save myself the future carpal tunnel. Do you even know Asian or African cultures? I would be so happily surprised but somehow I think the chances are quite low(by the way culture is not just the way people speak or the things they do, it is their values, their spirituality, and all other things that make the human side of humanity). As I always say to people in your rung of intellect; your ignorance will be the fall of man.
that jian something kid sued harvard and princeton because his stats were stellar and he had ECs that were monster impressive as well. he was certainly a better applicant than most of you could have ever been.
i know a lot of white ethnics who went to penn who are bitter as hell, rightfully so, because if they were black or latino they would have been in harvard on a full ride with a hand job from the president's daughter.
i like asians. i like filipinos particularly. you know why? filipino IQ scores are somewhere below the other groups. the liberals normal reaction would be to start pushing the AA and diversity. but no. they are still considered Asian and if that door was opened chinese, japanese, whatevers would also get the leg up and we can't have that. but filipinos make a higher per capita household income than any other asian group, because they go into nursing, trades, etc. good middle class work that doesn't overtax them.
then you look at african americans who are pushed into law schools, etc., with AA. what happens? 40% of black law students never pass the bar. first, that fucks everyone else who lost their spot to AA. second, even those blacks are now 150K in the hole without bar credentials and no shot at practicing law. third, this casts doubt on every qualified black who wouldn't have needed AA anyways.
i have a liberal doctor friend who finally woke the fuck up. he is a practicing physician now and i ask him, "so how many fucking medicaid patients you gonna take? you gonna work in "underserved" communities?"
ZERO
reality is the best cure for liberal fanaticism
I
Well if it was factored in the DA's office didn't mention it. Furthermore, randomly attacking a kid while yelling racial slurs at least warrants a hate crime charge and then a reduction to something stronger.
I am sorry, but if you are going to have bullshit hate crime laws you should apply them evenly.
The kid also said he did not recall hearing any racial slurs. This does not mean it did not happen, but I'm sure it was also a factor.
Honestly, we only hear what's reported, which is only a portion of the story. I understand the reaction, but it's hard for any of us to say with certainty what should have been done without knowing the full story.
On a side note, what does it even change if you are charged with a hate crime? Stronger sentences?
The kid was punched in the head through a window and then dragged out. The cabbie heard everything and came out to help him and was then attacked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime_laws_in_the_United_States#Class…
Hate crimes come with much stronger sentences. Pretty dumb in my mind. But left wingers wanted to do this and it should be applied evenly and fairly.
"Analysis of the 1999 FBI statistics by John Perazzo in 2001 found that white violence against black people was 28 times more likely (1 in 45 incidents) to be labelled as a hate crime than black violence against white people (1 in 1254 incidents)."
28 times more likely to be labeled. I would even imagine hate crimes were charged when no racial slurs were uttered.
jktecon - "This country was built on diversity and only a fool would want to go down the road of admitting students on single or common criteria."
Umm, no. This country was not built on "diversity". The common meaning of diversity emerged in the 1960s as part of some liberal groupthink.
http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=diversity%2Ccapitalism%2Cd…
I love all of the Harvard experts here who didn't go to Harvard.
I hooked up with a girl who was wearing a harvard tshirt once, so I feel like I'm pretty much qualified to speak with authority about Harvard admissions based on that fact alone.
Like rapidly climbing illegitimacy rates?
Read this ye monkeys
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/10/051010crat_atlarge
and this
Much like fashion, what was one old is now new again.
In fairness to Brady, integration is pretty much a failure. Schools and neighborhoods self segregate. If anything, providing vouchers or other free market solutions will help inner city under privileged people more than shuffling the deck.
I can't help but note that standard metrics like the SAT and IQ imply that wealth and/or income is/are the largest dividing line, not race.
Couple that with genetics and there's a recipe for model minority success (Jews, Indians etc.)
Put that in your pipe and shmoke it.
I look forward to the day when whites are no longer the majority. Then people can't blame their problems on me.
this is a delusion. look to the bumiputra policies of indonesia and malaysia for majority-based affirmative action.
How does that have anything to do with what I said?
It will always be your fault Heisty. Gotta have someone to blame.
The day whites aren't the majority. Oh, so like Brazil?
I look forward to the day that the US can replicate the vast success of Brazil.
UFO, you have a point among Indians - but I wouldn't paint the Chinese with the same brush. Korea was extremely backwater 3 generations ago. Now they are first world. China/Korea are more similar than dissimilar...
The whole asian kids are smarter thig is a joke, the only reason they do better overall as a population as stated above is because all of the dumbasses were left in their homeland. Imagine what the White population would be like if we could leave all of the idiots in eastern Europe.
get familiar with the work of j. philippe rushton.
This is straight up wrong. While it is true that foreign students (thus someone who only comes to the US for college or graduate school) are often comprised of the elite, the majority of them return home, so they can leverage their elite backgrounds/connections to get ahead. On the other hand, families that straight up immigrate (think of the folks that run your local dry cleaners) are often very ordinary or even socially maladjusted people who simply saw more opportunity in a foreign country. Think about it, immigration is a tremendous risk, thus it takes somewhat of a "I have nothing to lose" mentality. It is the children of these families that are termed "Asian-American", making them the focus of this debate.
cry me a river!!! Harvard does not want 70% asians who have no social skills (stereotype) running around with harvard degrees, so what??
Show me evidence that a robotics or rocket science program at cal tech/MIT or the like IS admitting idiot blacks/hispanics then we can hold an arguement.
Also, Like heister mentioned, the foreigners who come to the States are usually the cream of the crop. True or false, but are we saying Africans are smarter than whites because they perform better academically in Universities in the States?
It's just asians crying on a forum about getting into prestigious schools...shocker. Just like Brady coming on here and talking every 2 seconds about HBS; if you want to make anything the center of your universe you will always be crushed at some point.
Well prestige doesn't rebuild economies and being in 20 school clubs doesn't tell me shit about your resolve as a human being. I completely agree that no ethnic or religious group should be over represented at any university if that university is looking to create well rounded and prepared citizens for the task at hand.
I have no problem saying that 'on the whole' the European value set is far better than virtually anything in South America/Africa/South Asia.
Liberal, monogamous, conscientious, value education, value knowledge, birthplace of democracy, etc.
I mean, is this even up for debate?
Almost everything you mentioned was around over 4000 years ago in Ancient Egypt. And this society clearly does not value knowledge, as is apparent if you are earning an investment banker salary with such a stench of ignorance . A civilization that remained in power for over 2500 years placed its value in the historians(the scribes) and you would do well to know your place in the annals of history.
Its funny to see that facts about the SAT scores being lower for blacks and hispanics, but the article doesnt say shit about the average income. Most of these blacks and hispanics live in areas that have horrible teachers, they are engulfed in gangs and their parents use their money to buy drugs.
I know there are poor asians and whites but they are only about 10% of the impoverished community. Also I think it is fair to accept a hispanic student that had a 1200 on his SAT other than an asian that had a 1500 because I am pretty sure that the Hispanic student worked 100 times harder to get that, and maybe work 2 part-time jobs to feed his family. He has more discipline/desire than the asian that just sat at home while his parents paid for all his SAT classes and paid for everything he uses.
Now concerning the rich hispanics and blacks well, not every system is perfect and there will always be loopholes to the system but I feel like it is correct for the most part.
Btw I am indian
I have no problem with poor minorities who overcame major life obstacles, getting into elite schools with lower scores. However, the problem is that most blacks and latinos at elite colleges come from stable middle and even upper class backgrounds. You really think most blacks at harvard grew up in the ghetto?
Like I said Loopholes, but I agree that race should in no way be a method to judge anyone, just cuz they have more darker pigments doesnt mean they need to have a better life.
They should just do it base it on income. I just cant believe how stupid these colleges are. They would pick the rich black kid (if he had a 1300) rather than the poor white kid (if he had a 1310) I agree Brady it makes zero sense.
i wish i can give you 1000 SBs for this, brady.
i laugh at all these experts on HYP who've never been there.
we have almost no ghetto blacks and latinos at HYP other than the janitors. affirmative action is a tribal tactic for extremely wealthy blacks from the jack and jill set, and upper class hispanics with blond hair and blue eyes.
damn it feels good to be rich/black. (HBS here I come)
No it isn't up for debate. The European value system that led to great historical accomplishments such as: the spanish Inquisition, Jacobin mass murder, the Holocaust, just Russia and eastern European violence throughout history, slavery, poor hygiene, mass murder of people who believed in Jesus Christ and then the mass murder of people who did not believe in Jesus Christ; no its quite blemish free.
Please say hi to Seabird while you walk around that ring of ignorance
Ya youre right buddy. I am wrong, youre right. Because, you know, all the bad stuff thats ever happened has happened in or because of europeans. And everyone who claims they are Christians are pure souls who constantly follow his word and never do wrong. Good point.
"No it isn't up for debate. The European value system that led to great historical accomplishments such as: the spanish Inquisition, Jacobin mass murder, the Holocaust, just Russia and eastern European violence throughout history, slavery, poor hygiene, mass murder of people who believed in Jesus Christ and then the mass murder of people who did not believe in Jesus Christ; no its quite blemish free."
What is your point? All humans go to war. The difference is that for recent history Europeans were/are better at it than anyone else.
So a civilization (and clearly in this context I use the word quite loosely) is in your words "better" because of its strength in warfare and mass murder?
This is clearly the main issue in arguments like these and I am quite happy it has displayed itself. Well the issue for Asians is based on their need for acceptance and praise in their social groups which is quite normal.
But they should never become entangled with Angles when these arguments take place because for them it is a digression to that famous hierarchy of race. The infamous human loop of ignorance.
Please stop trying to sound smart. You're making my brain hurt
No, European culture is better for the reasons I initially outlined. That Europeans also happen to be better at warfare is a function of a highly organized innovative society.
Honestly, who cares? If you are a smart and hard working guy, you can be successful even if you don't go to Harvard. Just go UVA or U Mich, ace all the courses much easier, have much more fun than those Harvard guys, fuck WAY hotter girls, and still end up with same I-banking or consulting jobs as top Harvard kids.
College prestige is fucking overrated.
Going to Harvard isn't as fun as going to a school like Texas, Michigan, or Virginia. Student body at a school like U Michigan is a fucking joke compared to the student body at Harvard.
If you were good enough to get into Harvard but got rejected due to some bullshit reason, like being a white or asian guy, so be it. Go to U Michigan or UVA and be in the top 5% of the class in their business/ econ curriculum with less than half the effort that you would put in if you were to attend Harvard, do well on interviews, and land a banking or consulting job. And, you will have 10 times more fun going to a large state U like U Michigan than going to Harvard. Better parties, sick sports, much easier academics, and way hotter/ easier/ sluttier girls. Most girls at Ivies are ugly as fuck, and social life at many of Ivies is pretty awful.
IMO, better to be a big fish in a small pond than vice versa.
Sorry for not knowing that Egypt was the birthplace of democracy 4000 years ago.
I can't believe you are actually this stupid.
And I'm not an investment banker, hence the "O" next to my user name.
Harvard is a joke compared to the academics of the Ohio State University....... jeez
I found this to be pretty disturbing from the article:
The Avg SAT score for blacks to get into Duke was 1270 and avg SAT for asians was 1460. Damn... what a difference.
Out of curiousity, does this include non-American Blacks?
I tell you, I don't know how on Western Civilization (or China for that matter) has made such leaps and advances without the creative input of blacks and Hispanics. Just luck I guess.
Seriously though, you could actually make a case that Europeans were most productive when they stuck to their continent, that China made her most impressive discoveries when they only had Chinese folks, and so on...
Its an accepted truism that racial diversity increases creativity and all that stuff, but I have yet to see a single study showing that. Yes, in today's globalized world science is advancing rapidly, but that is simply because the pace of technological discoveries naturally accelerates when you have more and more information.
And where does said wisdom come from I ask? From the ether? From staying on your continent?
I argue instead that these discoveries are the result of human interaction over centuries. Civilizations are always built on the discoveries of previous civilizations.
Seriously what the hell are you talking about?
Thats comming from they guy who thought that Ancient Egypt was a democracy.
Do jews wear undershirts??
My roomate does and he is jewish
This shit beens happening awhile, I'm surprised you had to read Bloomberg to fucking validate it. Even the actor Kal Penn (from Harold and Kumar movies etc changed his name as a joke and it worked: Penn says that he derived his acting name, Kal Penn, as a lark: "Almost as a joke to prove friends wrong, and half as an attempt to see if what I was told would work (that anglicized names appeal more to a white-dominated industry), I put 'Kal Penn' on my resume and photos." His audition callbacks rose by 50 percent. He has stated that he prefers his birth name and uses "Kal Penn" only for professional purposes). He's Indian.
Then again, I think places like MIT are a bit more diverse, readily taking Phd students from the Indian Institute of Technology Harvard will always be dominated by shit stain rich honkies
I know admission officers at Harvard (FB friends with one of them) due to a mutual program we went through together.
I will say that in the more recent years they've been trying to get more asians as a conscious effort, at least for Harvard Business School.
However, yes it is a diversity thing. Not necessarily diversity of race, but a diversity of experience. I saw first-hand them telling me that they want non-traditional people and that the finance applicants all compete on the same metrics (which is why it's seemingly so hard) versus other applicants which compete on completely different metrics.
Take that for what it's worth. You can PM me if you'd like more details; I'd like to protect privacy here. But I thought it was quite enlightening to share.
For those of you who are, say, right of center, do you dislike diversity? Do you not care?
If you want to know more about how each society developed, go read "Guns, Germs, and Steel".
I don't care about diversity. I care about crime, academic performance, having an innovative/robust economy. Our immigration system should be tuned to make sure that all those factors are looked into while letting people come into the country.
I have major problems with the mass importation of low skill immigrants who work in food preparation/construction/hospitality. These are jobs which can be worked by low skill Americans.
I read that book and it made no impression - certainly a far less influential book than The Bell Curve.
Yeah. Give me your tired, your poor, your hungry, but only as long as they have a 3.9.
Studies have shown that illegal immigrants still have a net positive impact on the economy. Low skilled immigrants may be much harder workers because they have to claw their way up with no sense of entitlement. But I don't have proof for that, and you probably don't have proof otherwise.
So what happens when you have an influx of the best and brightest? What happens to the less than capable Americans?
I haven't read the book myself, it was just a strong recommendation by a professor I had who said it addressed such things. What was your take?
^ jk, no one would argue that the rich old white boy's club was racism distilled. however, to shill for AA by saying that it is for the benefit of ghetto minorities whose parents were working 4 jobs and have to deal with leaky classrooms is just factually false, because the real beneficiaries of AA are wealthy minorities who have it better than 99.9999% of humanity. the fact that good indian, asian and white kids from poor backgrounds who really HAD to deal with leaky classrooms and bad environments must suffer so Carlton can cruise into princeton with a 1200SAT just makes this thing stink of both racism and hypocrisy.
you can argue for AA any way you want, but the "help poor blacks" argument is just completely spurious.
Brady, why are you interviewing these kids when you have a nice white boy like me? Can't go wrong with white bro.
I also know of 2 brothers who look white but their father is from Algeria, both of whom got into MIT by applying as African American. Is that fair to individuals who have a lineage that traces back to slavery?
The fact is their isn't anything you can do to ensure you will be admitted into an elite university. It should be viewed in a similar fashion to professional sports. Many who make it in athletic professions are not necessarily the best but they were spotted at the right place right time or they had a helping hand along the way.
Unlike professional sports, however, not making it into an elite university is not a death sentence financially. You may still be admitted somewhere but yes that wonderful shining beacon of prestige may not be found until later in life. You can then train your children to aimlessly pursue prestige in life just as you did.
I'm sorry for harping, but you seriously have the most disjointed thought process I've ever seen. What is your point?
,
This is such bull shit. I know Asians that fit the stereotype as in they are mute, studious, and awkward much like 2400-4.0 robots, and on the other hand the MAJORITY of Asians-Indians I know are extremely sociable, driven, well rounded. I understand that colleges don't want the robots, but by stereotyping them as one race they are throwing the baby out with the bath water.
So I was 100% right in the other thread. You see ANT? Nature always beats nurture in every facet of life. Asians are intellectually superior because of evolution.
According to the admission stats Asians are only out performing whites by a small amount. Not sure how that makes them superior.
I like how there are comments about how we can't have too many Asians with 2400 SATs and violinists but no one complains about how we admit an equal number of white kids who are varsity football players.
No offense, I'd rather watch college football and basketball...hell any sport for that matter over a violin performance. Plus college athletics brings in the $$$ (but that's another subject).
taking the anglo-american powers to be the leading force of the west which is currently numero uno, we see that while their forbears were running around in the forests of saxony, faces painted blue, wiping their greasy fingers on their thighs around a campfire, the forbears of today's iranians, indians, egyptians, chinese and mexicans were performing astronomical calculations, developing literature and philosophy, and performing brain surgery.
hard to say how turnaround plays out in the long run. who knows, maybe africans will be colonizing england in the future after blowing the RAF out of the sky with their spaceships.
So I take it no one has concrete examples or studies showing that racial diversity increases the creativity and productivity of a group.
There is another thing about AA I don't understand. It is supposed to be a sort of compensation for past crimes versus their racial group.
Blacks-Slavery-obviously
Native Americans-land taken away-obviously
Hispanics-What the hell did Americans do to them?
Lets close the loop hole by making AA only available to those below the poverty line. Problem solved.
Yes, because only poor people are victims of racism.
It makes me sick listening to Indians complain about discrimination when their own government wont allow Tesco or WalMart to open stores in India to protect their own shop keepers from Western competition.
These are entirely different, incomparable issues
These are entirely different, incomparable issues
Umm what does the Indian govt doing in India has anything to do with issues faced by Americans of Indian origin born in America?
Indians do not deserve AA, they fleece the government at every trun. The US government essentially pays for every native american in existence today. For example in ID there is a tribe that put in a requestion order for 50 grain elevators so they could elevate their grain into the silos. Do you know how many they bought? One, they used the rest of the money to buy booze and snow mobiles. You think they deserve AA when all they do is scam the government. Also their rezs don't pay federal taxes and they put up casinos. Yea im in the fuck them I don't give a damn about them camp.
I don't know about you guys, but the kid in the article comes off as self-entitled to me.
Life isn't fair. Deal with it. Or don't and continue b*tching.
I'm aware. You said Asians are "only out performing whites by a small amount". That is incorrect. They are out performing by a very large amount - probably due to self selection.
What I can say, Asians are just smarter and more hard working than other races. A company wants to hire people who are smart and can think analytically. Eventually, the east will overtake the west.
LOL
I-N-N-O-V-A-T-I-O-N
You really do believe that Asians have never been innovative right? You also believe that Apple invented the smartphone right?
LOL
P.S. sorry for sounding mean
Hey man, To be successful you need land, labor, capital and ENTERPRISE. A lot of people can get land, skilled labor and capital but find the correct entreprise is much more difficult (this is found more in the USA).
Sure some Indians are more harder working but without a leader with a vision there will be no use for the labor.
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