HELP--Audax Group offer

Hi guys--I'm a consultant at a top firm and just received a pre-MBA offer from Audax. I'm thinking over the offer and want some more insight into these guys.

Seems like the big issue with Audax on this board is lifestyle. They have a big team, but do a ton of deals, which makes the lifestyle pretty bad (10-12 platform acquisitions a year, 15-20 add-ons). They told me that lifestyle will get better as they ramp-up the team, but I'm skeptical.

Aside from lifestyle, are there any other issues I should consider with Audax? How are my exit options if I decide I want to move to another MM or a BB firm after 2 years?

Pluses I see about Audax (please comment):
-Very well respected (top quartile or better returns)
-Strong team
-Lots of deal experience
-Competitive comp (200-240K all in + leveraged coinvest)
-Promotion without MBA
-Firm is growing, so opportunities in new offices, etc.

 

I don't work in PE but I was in a similar position (consultant interviewing for PE). I think Audax is one of the better consultant-friendly PE firms and you certainly shouldn't worry about any doors being closed. Especially if you go back to b-school, I don't see why you wouldn't be a strong candidate for any PE firm post-MBA. I have zero perspective on the "different office" thing but to be honest, why would you want to? PE is only in Boston and the only other option is their China office. The biggest issue should be what your other options are.

Anyway hope that helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to shoot me a PM- there are many more qualified people than me to comment on this but I'll be happy to help.

Congrats on your offer. Like ideating said, Audax is one of the more respected firms that hire consultants. It's also true that while their lifestyle is among the worst I've seen (large cap PE included), there's no doubt if you have an interest in private equity that by the end of your two or three years at Audax you will be incredibly well trained in the deal process from start to finish. I know a couple pre-MBA's currently at Audax and also a post-MBA equivalent (never went to B-school) at small PE firm that did 2 years at Audax. Every one of them is pretty impressive. Should you take the job, I think you'd be in a great position to apply for top business schools.

That being said, a few points. First, you were told that while the team is large, they are adding and that should detract from the hellish lifestyle. From talking with friends at Audax, I'm skeptical that this is the case. The lifestyle is bad because the culture of the firm is such that encourages an INSANELY thorough process in everything they do, and the ex Bain Cap culture (the good news is that this is exactly the type of culture that will foster your deal making skillsets). Audax already has an insanely large amount of investment professionals for the size of their fund. We have less than half of that amount and we manage a fund twice the size.

The other point is that promotion without MBA should not be relied on. It has happened, but not very often. For example, out of the last class of 8 associates, only 1 was promoted to senior associate (although 2 additional were invited back after b-school, no idea if they are coming back or not), and he did not accept the position (I know him, he is hands down the most impressive 27 year old I've ever met) because of the lifestyle.

On the plus side, the comp (on the high end) is some of the best you'll see in Boston outside of Bain, and should you accept the job, you'll learn quite a bit. If you have other options, try and weigh them appropriately. Otherwise, I personally think it's a great opportunity (with probably just a couple less "pros" than you originally thought).

 

Thanks for your input ideating and GameTheory--very helpful.

Do you guys know what the exit options are like from a place like Audax if you have 2 years of MBB before that? Especially interested in 3 types of options: -Moving to a hedge fund after 2 years -Moving to a bulge bracket firm (Blackstone, Warburg Pincus, TPG, etc.) after 2 years or after business school -Moving to another top middle-market firm after 2 years or after an MBA (Berkshire, Golden Gate, Lee Equity, etc.)

 

Moving to a HF after 2 years would be possible. You would be able to secure interviews, at least. I don't see you being able to move to any large private equity shop unless you went back to school, though. The only situation I could see that happening would be if you were good enough to be promoted directly at Audax, but I wouldn't expect any glowing recommendations from Audax if that were the case.

 

what's the reason/motivation for pre-mba movement from private equity to hedge funds? what are the pros/cons versus staying in the PE industry?

does a career in HF mean:

1) better hours/lifestyle (i've never heard much on this... it's easy to believe good HFs work very, very hard) 2) greater comp potential

but doesn't it also mean:

3) inherently greater comp risk 4) more short-term/medium-term scrutiny in the performance of your investments (by investors, etc) 5) less control over performance of investments (unless an activist HF)

curious about people's thoughts on this... it seems like HFs are a popular destination for people who have done 2 years in private equity

 

I'll have very little to add, but my firm does do a lot of transactions with Audax. I think you've laid out the situation very well. Good exposure, good skillset, terrible work/life balance. My understanding is that Audax will work you to the bone (comment from a friend of mine who received an offer but turned it down). That said, if you are okay with this, Audax would be a fantastic place to work. Looking at the profile of the PE analysts, I can't say the group seems to be the most exciting bunch, but I'm sure you can get over that.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

Thanks for the input...

Anyone else in the industry have any thoughts on Audax vs. other firms?

Also, anyone have thoughts on how easy it would be to move to a BB or top MM firm (Berkshire, New Mountain, etc.) after Audax or after b-school? (i.e., would you get interviews? Would they look at the experience favorable vs. other firms?)

Really appreciate all the help!

 
ad12:
Thanks for the input...

Anyone else in the industry have any thoughts on Audax vs. other firms?

Also, anyone have thoughts on how easy it would be to move to a BB or top MM firm (Berkshire, New Mountain, etc.) after Audax or after b-school? (i.e., would you get interviews? Would they look at the experience favorable vs. other firms?)

Really appreciate all the help!

I would think that they would view Audax favorably but not really sure on what the definitive pecking order is.

As far as PE->HF, your best bet would be the activist investor types (Third Point) or the ones that are starting a PE branch (Fortress). If you are looking to do a total flip (i.e. global macro or long/short) that may be possible but you wouldn't have the traditional profile and may have to think about smaller funds. The hours would definitely be better, comp would be pretty comparable with more upside at a HF.

think after 2 years at Audax and 2 years of b-school at hbs/gsb/wharton, you'd have a good shot at some of those firms. not sure what the prospects are like right out of Audax... pretty certain after 2 years of PE that b-school would do you some good

seen a lot of people with lower-tier PE (names i hadn't heard of) who landed gigs at top-tier PE post-MBA... (think carlyle/bain cap/BX). obviously not an easy task, but audax is a reputable name and you should make a good candidate

not in PE yet (so take with a grain of salt), but just speaking from the resumes of guys i interviewed with

 

I have a good friend from college who's working at Audax now, from what I've seen and heard the lifestyle is just as bad, if not worse, than what people here have said.

The way they run their deals, you do an absurd amount of diligence... I guess technically you could argue that you learn how to do things "the right way" via this method, but I think diminishing returns applies here as well as it does anywhere else.

My recommendation really depends on what your long-term goals are - if you want to stay in PE, sure, it could be good to do for awhile... but you'll probably get sick of the lifestyle after awhile, most people do.

If you ultimately want to go in a different direction (e.g. HF or something outside finance), not sure I would outright recommend doing this because there is significant sacrifice involved.

I think it would generally be difficult to move directly from Audax to a large-cap PE - would probably have to do b-school or something else first, especially in today's market.

 

I went through their full recruiting process and my firm works with them a lot. Prepare to never go home and to crank all day. You will gain tremendous experience, possibly better than anywhere else; Audax leaves no stone unturned. In terms of candidates, they are looking for mostly consulting types, but do hire a couple bankers. Expect a lot of "case study" type questions and less technicals. Good group of guys, but obviously have a bit of arrogance to them.

~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

It depends on what you ultimately want to do. If you're solely looking to do banking to jump to PE down the line, why not just gun for the PE position right now? Audax is a very solid firm and you can't go wrong choosing them. In fact, you could argue that Audax would be a much better choice than an investment bank at this point in time.

 

I have several friends at Audax. CompBanker and ledger123 are right on point. Audax is very process-driven (because of the speed at which they can try to close deals), yet also diligence-intensive and data-oriented as well. Your hours there could be as rough or worse than banking.

​* http://www.linkedin.com/in/numicareerconsulting
 

Would like to bring these guys back up for discussion. Met a couple of their senior guys the other week.

Anyone have any insight on what the typical responsibilities are for a junior level PE guy is? I know they have analysts just out or 1 year out of undergrad, so I'm interested to hear what these guys do and the experience they have.

"If you want to succeed in this life, you need to understand that duty comes before rights and that responsibility precedes opportunity."
 

I think I read in another post that they usually divide the juniors into two camps when doing deals: One for the financial aspects and one for the operational aspects. This means that you may be doing valuation and modeling on one company and then turn around and write weekly progress reports on another. Again, this is from what I remember, not sure if this is 100% accurate.

Audax has great exit opps though, if you check out where people went afterwards. Does anyone know for sure at which schools they recruit for Undergrad?

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. See my Blog & AMA
 
Matrick:
I think I read in another post that they usually divide the juniors into two camps when doing deals: One for the financial aspects and one for the operational aspects. This means that you may be doing valuation and modeling on one company and then turn around and write weekly progress reports on another. Again, this is from what I remember, not sure if this is 100% accurate.

Audax has great exit opps though, if you check out where people went afterwards. Does anyone know for sure at which schools they recruit for Undergrad?

I think Audax has the same model as Bain Cap, given their heritage. However, when they say divided between operational and valuation, what this typically means is that one associate will do the model/financial and tax diligence while another (or maybe 2/3) will be 100% focused on commercial diligence i.e. market trends, potential for operating improvements etc. This is distinct from working with the portfolio, where you would write progress reports etc.

 

Does anyone else have any other thoughts? It sounds like Audax is a good firm. Why aren't they as well known as places like Golden Gate? Do they have lower returns or something?

 
ad12:
It sounds like Audax is a good firm. Why aren't they as well known as places like Golden Gate? Do they have lower returns or something?

People may have their own opinions, but I think Audax is not as well known simply because they are a smaller fund (I think their most recent fund was around $1 bn, versus closer to $4 bn for Berkshire).

 

One of my younger friends currently works at Audax and I've worked with them on deals before and basically the lives of the analysts there are somehow worse than banking analysts' lives. I didn't think this was possible until I started seeing emails from them at 5 AM every night... and on weekends...

People are lured into analyst jobs at PE firms sometimes but I recommend you go to a BB IBD or top consulting instead because the exit options will be better. From a bank you can move anywhere but doing PE first limits your options more.

And yes it would be easer to move into a large cap shop from a top banking/consulting (more so banking) firm. Headhunters start calling analysts at BBs for those positions in March/April so they get preferential treatment.

 

wait, WORSE than bankers??!?!? how is that possible? do they get paid more as well?

how does doing PE first limit options?? i always got the impression that pe analysts got the same modeling skills as bankers and did the same client-facing stuff as consultants.

i would think someone who already has PE experience would want to come in as an associate at Largecap pe firm and wouldn't be in the same pool as the 2 year bankers/consultants???

 

Yes, their hours are worse than mine were in my first year and no, they don't get paid as well either. This is all coming directly from a friend who now works there. As far as pay I don't have an exact number but it was below the $60K + $90K bonus for 1st year banking analysts this past year. Not by a whole lot (maybe $10-20K total all-in?) but definitely a difference in pay.

From what I've seen from other PE analysts I've worked with, they mostly do modeling and do not have as much "client-facing" experience as you might think. Hell even most associates at PEs mostly do modeling/diligence etc.

You may have a slight advantage coming from a PE background if you're applying to a larger PE shop, but the safest route is to go to a top BB. Then you can get top PE/HF/VC/corp. dev. jobs so if you change your mind about what you want to do there are lots of options. Whereas doing PE first would obviously prepare you well for that but not so much for the other possibilities.

Maybe it's just Audax that is a sweatshop, but I've seen analysts at other, larger PEs as well and their hours were about the same as mine. Basically if your title is "Analyst" at a PE your hours will be the same or worse as banking.

PM me if you have any more questions on Audax or PE analysts in general.

 

I'm starting at audax in july, and was told that analysts are forced to leave the office by 7pm every friday. i was told that while i will be working less total hours than investment bankers, my utilization rate will be nearly 100% (whereas IB involves a fair amount of face time). I would and did choose audax over a number of other very competitive programs, including a multitude of deep value hedge funds (i have a unique background which made me an attractive buy side candidate). The compensation is the same as at a top IBD program, but it's in boston so adjusted for cost and quality of living, it's effectively a lot more.

also, the assertion that you will open more doors by going into IB over a good PE firm out of ugrad is false. in PE, you develop real, transferable skill sets. You get the IB skill set AND the consulting/management experience, which is important. The reality of ibanking is that the work is really not difficult at all if you are of average intelligence. You really do not need to work 100+ hrs/wk for 2 years to learn power point and excel. PE gives you all that and more. Pretty linear decision if you ask me.

 

interesting. so no weekends? same comp? those are some pretty contradictory posts..!!!

 

that's a great great opportunity eric, congratulations

but get real about the decision being linear. you won't work on big deals, because audax doesn't do big deals. actually, while financing markets are this choppy, and if sellers are pissed at watching cerberus and flowers walking from deals, you may not see any pe firms doing really large deals. you will close a fraction the number of deals at audax that a busy analyst in a top group in a hot area at a bank will close (know analysts that hit double digits, although it's a mixed blessing for sure). and, as far as moving to large cap goes, the audax guys can't phone a partner at KKR, Blackstone, apollo, etc. to help your placement, nor will they be motivated to lose you to the competition. the hitters at BBs who have done business with those shops can make the calls that help your placement, and, if you have done good work for them, will want to.

bottom line, there are lots of great opportunities -- oncee you are talking about the highest level opportunities there are always tradeoffs, and the biggest variables become getting on the best deals, working for the best people who teach you the most and give you the greatest responsibility, and then finding opportunities to step up and demonstrate thought and aptitude.

 

Perhaps if you have an actual passion for investment banking, and want to spend the majority of your career doing investment banking (as some do), you might achieve personal gratification from working on a few large, WSJ-worthy deals every year. Personally, I am more interested in getting exposure to the entire deal process across as many deals as I possibly can, year in and year out. Audax has the professional capacity to raise a lot of capital (last fund was 2x oversubscribed, and returns have been consistently top quartile or decile), but Geoff Rehnert is not planning to increase the deal size, which is resulting in 30-40+ deals closed annually -- a number which is actually increasing. I can expect to be on 6-person deal teams that close 3-5 deals per year, while doing significant diligence on a number of other deals that don't close. IB over PE is a fine choice so long as your end goal is to be an IB MD (assuming your PE offer is for real work in a good, reputable shop). This is not to say that working in IB at a BB for a couple of years is not a fantastic professional experience -- it is -- but for those of us who are not sure where we want to be at age 25, 30, 40, I think the skill sets developed in PE are unquestionably more complete and transferable than those developed in investment banking. I think the "real" strategic-level business experience is probably more valuable, in the long run, than the financial aspect.

I agree with 2 of your 3 variables: where can you learn the most, and where you get the most responsibility, are major decision criteria. The "best deals," however, are less important. Getting a small amount of exposure to a mega deal is (in my opinion erroneously) prestigious, I suppose, but in terms of actual professional development (my main concern, as somebody who eventually wants to manage his own fund), it would be far more advantageous (again, in my opinion) to participate in the entire spectrum of the deal process in the MM. Also, because MM PE firms weren't doing covenant-lite loans, i very much doubt that the deal flow will decline at the same rate as in larger funds, if it even declines significantly at all.

 

didn't say NO weekends, just said that on fridays, the analysts are allegedly told to turn off their computers and go home at 7. That does not mean they don't come in the next morning and keep going! i was told that the hours are long, but not as long as IB. I was also told that when i was working, i would be working non-stop, whereas IBers play a lot of solitaire.

Other interesting things are that the analysts only do research and analysis. there is a separate team focused on sourcing deals, and they are traveling 4 days/wk. so, it's not a "dial for dollars" operation.

The other thing that is particularly cool, is that top analysts have the opportunity to be promoted to senior analyst after just one year. however if you join right out of ugrad, you will be competing with former bankers and consultants to get this promotion.

you can pm me if you really want to know my background.

 

Congrats on getting the offer since getting PE right out of undergrad is not an easy thing to do. Will be interesting to see how the hours stack up compared to what I've been hearing from friends there - keep us updated.

I'd agree with ruscal that it is far from a linear decision, but sounds like you've thought this through and come to the best course of action for yourself. Good luck!

 

I think all of you are making valid points. Would make a couple of points about Audax specifically:

1) Most senior analysts get accepted at HBS if they decide to go to b-school. 2) Seems like the shop has great placement at other pe firms for people who leave the firm. I know there's a former Audax analyst now working at Warburg Pincus and one who joined Apax this year. This is in addition to other analysts who are now at solid MM shops (Berkshire, Parthernon, Calera, etc.)

I don't think you're shutting off exit options to larger pe firms if that's the route you go. I don't think moving to a larger firm is necessarily a better option, but if that's the route you want to go there are plenty of people from middle market firms at the Carlyles and Warburg Pincuses of the world.

Bottom line: top b-school and a firm like Audax on your resume should get you interviews at most firms. How you do in the interview will determine the rest.

Would appreciate anyone's opinion on these thoughts.

 
Best Response

You're forgetting that there's a ton to learn on the sell side that will better prepare you for the buyside. You're incredibly naive - everyone of your previous statements begins with "they told me" or "i was told." Good for them, they sure sold you. Get back to us after you close those 3-5 deals per year. You'll get exposure to several deals, but you're only getting exposure to a certain type of deal. The fact that you're so confident that PE is the end all be all, given that you haven't had any exposure to other types of deals or other buyside environments only furthers my belief that you're an idiot. You're a quintessential example of how not to choose your career - because everyone else is doing it.

People don't go into IB to be an IB MD you dope. You're way too naive (I could say confident, but if you were that confident you wouldn't be justifying your career decision on this board). Wake up and get some perspective.

 

"given that you haven't had any exposure to other types of deals or other buyside environments..." - I have about 1.5 years of buy side experience, having worked for 3 prominent, fundamentally-oriented hedge funds (two deep value/activist, one distressed credit). - I founded a company, got vc financing and floated the majority to a private capital group. Being an actual player in a deal (of whatever size) constitutes deal experience as far as I am concerned.

"You're a quintessential example of how not to choose your career - because everyone else is doing it." - I turned down multiple IBD and value HF offers for PE despite my eventual goal of managing a liquid portfolio. The reason for this is because at this point, the added educational value of going to a value-oriented HF is not significant. I chose PE over IBD for the aforementioned reason that the skill sets developed in PE are equally or more transferable, as they INCLUDE most of the skill sets developed in IB. It had nothing to do with the dwindling cache of working in PE.

"you wouldn't be justifying your career decision on this board" - i created this account, actually, to respond to this thread. Primarily, I was interested in disagreeing with some of the original information, which contradicts much of what "I was told" from primary sources. Saying "I was told" is an accurate and implicitly skeptical way to relay information that I have heard, but do not personally guarantee as fact. Interestingly, I find that writing these few posts and responding to personal messages has yielded negative marginal utility, so it is likely that I will stop here.

Thank you for your valuable opinions.

 

again congratulations, your opportunity is awesome and all the best of luck next year. it's pointless to turn this into an argument, but you dedicated your response to me, so I might as well reply

as the above poster points out, you are just incorrect to think that what you learn as an analyst at audax is "unquestionably more complete and transferable" than what guys who have top notch IB analyst experiences learn. my point about responsibility and opportunity to learn and getting on good deals was that, no matter where you go among top places, it's a deal by deal thing and a deal team by deal team thing. no matter what you are fed about being an important part of the investment decision or whatever, at the end of the day, as an analyst, you aren't sitting on the investment committee or negotiating deals. all they really need from you is grunt work and analysis -- whether you learn more and demonstrate the ability to do more will depend on which partners you work with, how smart and creative you are about finding opportunities.

my point about big deals is that, no matter whether you want to be the CFO of a f100, a lifelong mergers banker, sit on KKR's investment committee, go to a place like audax, or do any one of the many many other interesting and lucrative things out there, there is a lot to be learned from working on very large deals that have a high degree of complexity, lots of moving parts, and huge competitive and time pressure. it is a myth that banks put on army of analysts on big deals. busy groups run lean teams, whether BB or boutique, and if they know you're dependable, they're not going to double or triple staff even the biggest of deals because they can't afford to.

the take away is, congrats to eric, you've got a great job and should enjoy this year. how great your job is depends partly on what you do with it and partly on luck. you should be ruthless about making sure you do get as much exposure to the unique pe skills as possible, because you are paying for them by foregoing another, and very valuable, set of experiences.

 

There is a rumor floating around that Audax actually allows analysts to participate in deals with a certain amount of leverage. Can anyone confirm if this is true? I'm not interested in answering the question about which experience is better, my question is just in regards to how much money an analyst could potentially make if the average return of Audax funds is 20+%.

 

Well known, all around pretty good shop. Can't really tell you more than that, but it certainly would be a good place to work if you didn't want to go to a KKR type PE shop.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

Can anyone else provide an opinion on Audax? I noticed that they have a large number of pre-MBA analysts (a lot from McKinsey). It looks like 6-7 in each class. This seems high compared to other firms, especially since I've heard that Analysts at Audax don't do deal sourcing. Does anyone have an opinion on whether it's odd that there's so many analysts here?

Also, anyone have a good read on whether this is a quality place to be for someone interested in PE before B-school? Is it in the same league as Berkshire Partners, New Mountain Capital, etc.?

Thanks for the help.

 

Can anyone else provide an opinion on Audax? I noticed that they have a large number of pre-MBA analysts (a lot from McKinsey). It looks like 6-7 in each class. This seems high compared to other firms, especially since I've heard that Analysts at Audax don't do deal sourcing. Does anyone have an opinion on whether it's odd that there's so many analysts here?

Also, anyone have a good read on whether this is a quality place to be for someone interested in PE before B-school? Is it in the same league as Berkshire Partners, New Mountain Capital, etc.?

Thanks for the help.

 

I dont think Audax has a dedicated case team. They probably hire Bain or Parthenon on a selective basis, but I don't think they have a dedicated team.

From the standpoint of your experience as a pre-MBA analyst, seems to me like you want to be involved in the due diligence process. Either way, sounds like both Audax and GG are great shops. I know Audax sends everyone to HBS and seems like they place well at other shops post-MBA.

The two different staffing models are interesting. Audax only has 6 MDS--more of a pyramid structure. GG seems more MD-heavy. Anyone have a perspective on what that means for the pre-MBA experience?

Also, another question--if you're a pre-MBA analyst at a place like Audax (class of say 6-7 people), how many get invited back post-MBA or promoted directly? If you're not invited back, why would another shop want you post-MBA? Presumably you're not the cream of the crop...

Bumping this- have an interview scheduled in a week with Audax, and I was wondering what people thought of them now (this thread is pretty old). Is it still a sweatshop as was said in this thread that pays pretty low (maybe 100k all in top bucket) or a good place to be? I know they place very well into HBS and have a lot of smart people there. I guess what I'm wondering is whether it is better to start in MM PE > MF PE (or better MM PE) or go to a top BB/elite boutique and try to get to the best PE firms that route? Any info is appreciated and regardless will be doing whatever I can to get the position.

 

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