Monkeys,
Yesterday I received a job offer! Yay! But it's not in IB...
The offer I received is at a law firm, in a role that is a hybrid of a first-year Associate attorney and a paralegal, serving as a litigation analyst in the Securities practice of a medium-sized, prestigious law firm. The practice almost exclusively defends financial services firms and investment banks.
Now, as most of you know, I have spent some time trying to break into IB off-cycle and have come up short so far. I don't suspect that I will continue to come up short for an extended period of time, and I think I still have a shot at IB.
This position does, however, segue nicely into either business school or law school, because it incorporates both fields. It would be a nice story for business school (read: unique), and a good resume-booster for law school, not to mention the fact that it would set me up nicely with a potential spot with the firm post-JD if I chose that path.
I don't think I would have PE-level exit opps. I think my only exit opps (it's a 2-3 year commitment) would be the aforementioned two professional programs.
This is the first time this firm is running this program, and I would be the first person to go through it, so they didn't have much information that was substantive on a salary. They basically asked me to just throw out a number -- I gave a number that would match my last job, though my last job was in a very low cost-of-living town and in a completely different industry. They matched it, and said there is bonus eligibility but they're not sure exactly how much it would be. People who have worked in law firms -- any insight into bonus sizes? I would imagine ~$5K, but that's just being pulled out of my ass.
The position is a 2-3 year commitment, but it's unclear whether there is a sign-on bonus. I would imagine not -- it seems to just be a commitment on your honor. Is this common? Should I attempt to extract some sort of sign-on bonus?
Anyone have advice for negotiating salaries? I looked up salary figures for "litigation analyst" on Indeed and they are very high in all major cities (~$75K) which is heartily higher than my offer. I can't help but think these Indeed salaries are not accurate, but there's not much information out there besides those.
Thanks all.
WWHD- What would Harvey Spectre do.
hahahaha
YES. That's one of my favorite shows. I feel like it's like banking because they wear fancy suits and everyone's vindictive.
Double Post. My b ya'll.
Two things:
1.) I think you screwed yourself by asking for a number initially that you weren't happy with. I'm not sure what to tell you, maybe try going back to renegotiate??
2.) Dude, if IB is your dream don't settle for anything less. Of course, I don't know your financial situation but if you think you are close to breaking in I would urge you to stick with it. Taking this offer only tells me that you weren't that committed to IB in the first place. I don't know much about the job (I'm not quite sure that you do either), but I can say it doesn't sound that awesome. I think you should stick with IB and not give up on that... just my $0.02 from a random stranger.
in all seriousness, i do agree with oR3 here...although again, i don't know your financial situation either....if you need a job, at some point you just need a job.
I usually pull salary figures from glassdoor.com. But as oR3DL1N3o said...you kinda shot yourself in the foot by asking for a lower figure. If you asked for this figure very early in the interview process, before you knew much about the job, you can probably negotiate on that factor. Best way is to call HR, explain yourself...tell them you're extremely grateful for the offer, but after learning more about the job over the weeks you would like to find out if they would be willing to adjust the salary to xx. I would personally take the job depending on what kind of gap exists on your resume. It's going to be difficult to convince recruiters if you have a 8 month unemployment gap, whereas 8 months in a law firm can be spun to help your case.
edit: I usually give a figure 25% higher than my settle amount if asked, especially if I'm not too interested in taking the job. In most cases HR says "well that's a bit out of the range". Then you can ask well what is your range because I am negotiable depending on benefits and bonuses.
Keep in mind that business school admissions and law school admissions are two completely different animals. Your work experience for law school admissions is hardly considered. Sadly, 95% of the admittance decision is comprised of your GPA and LSAT score which is quite different from b school admissions. B school adcoms want to hear your personal story and whatever makes you unique from the masses.
What is your educational background again? It may be time for you to change your life dream from IB to Big Law and re-brand yourself.
...looks like you may be posting for jdOasis.com soon ;-)
Whats the salary? If its less than 40k, then reject. If you need money short term, then just accept. Start applying other places while you work there.
I'm always wary of working at a place because I need a job but then I end up resigning a month or so later.
Being a paralegal does not set you up nicely for law school, nor is the firm likely to take you seriously if you go back to law school and apply to the same firm for the same reasons that being a secretary to someone working in operations will not help you get a job as an investment banker.
If you have not gone to law school, you are not an associate nor will you be viewed or treated as one.
Does the position even require a 4 year degree?
Now, this isn't to say that it's a bad job or that you should not take it, but do not be fooled into thinking it will help you should you choose to pursue a legal career.
Have you gone to law school? Or worked in a law firm?
I have done neither. I did however look into a similar position myself but was dissuaded from doing so by several corporate lawyers I spoke with. Absolutely everyone I spoke indicated that any sort of m&a or capital markets experience was infinitely better than a paralegal type position.
I do not have any first hand experience in the area, however and probably should not have posted that last post. I do think that you should really speak to others in the legal field who work for other firms before accepting the position (if you haven't already). They will be able to give you a more realistic idea of where this position can take you.
someone tells you to throw out a salary number and you low-ball? lmao dude
I'm not familiar with your particular situation, so take this for what it's worth. From my experiences (both working with law firms when I was a consultant and friends in the business) working at a law firm in a position other than an associate is not really worth it.
I have had a few good friends from top 10 schools work at some of the top law firms in NYC (top 5-10 per vault guides, etc). Two of my friends went in to "analyst" type roles. These positions were my great; basically a glorified secretary. Thy filed papers, manually entered data into databases, kept up calendars, etc.
Another friend actually has his JD, but he entered his firm on the "non-partner" track; meaning off cycle and not really the associate path. He was treated poorly. He was given the grunt work and was never involved in client meetings or any of the "fun" parts of being a lawyer. He quit about 6 months in.
Now from my personal experience working with consulting firms that provide specialized services to law firms during litigation, I am struggling to see what you will be involved in as an "analyst". Law firms came to us (and other firms) to help them with the analysis during a lawsuit. So we created a lot of the models, cost analysis, etc.
Maybe things will be different for you, but I would make sure you have a very clear picture of what you are getting yourself in. Since this is a new program it will be very hard to get concrete info, so make sure to ask the questions now.
As for the salary, you shot yourself in the foot by lowballing, it will be difficult to get them up now.
And as for whether or not you should take this. If you are unemployed, yes, if not then it depends on what you're doing and how that ties back to your goals.
I say take it. I took a role similar recently over a research role at an MBB affiliated consultancy. My role is more compliance at a large international firm in London. Obviously mine is temporary (as I'm heading to grad school soon) and I've done the associate gig already but the position was too good to pass up.
Dont agree with the guy saying how this isnt a good option for law school because any experience is looked upon favourably, especially client-facing work, which I imagine this may involve.
About the salary situation, if the position involves significant travel or even moving, I would go back to them and mention how you've reassessed the figures and how the current package doesnt quite measure. As long as you're not completely greedy and go overboard beyond your current package, they should be accommodating. I think the key thing is that you're the first person to take this position and that gives you some leverage. Good luck.
Few thoughts:
I know of a litigation analyst at a consulting firm who makes about the 70s, gets a bonus (not sure how big) but works dog hours.
As far as bonuses go, it totally depends on the size of the firm, the prestige, and rank. While biglaw folks can start at 30k+, mid size firms are usually smaller. Also, paralegals don't make much in terms of bonus at all. I knew of one who worked at a top law firm for some time and got a bonus of like 10k. Unfortunately, you don't get as much if you aren't an attorney.
Keep in mind that you aren't an associate (for purposes of promotion/bonuses) at a law firm until you pass the bar, that'd be a violation of partnership/LLP/PC law in most states.
I agree 100% with FreezePops. I am currently in law school and have worked at a law firm. I will say that having paralegal experience is almost moot. Nowadays law school seems to be 50% GPA and 50% LSAT, if you have some unbelievable story like owning a $1 billion company at the age of 13, you might be able to sway that some, otherwise, its a lost cause. People on here will argue with this, but those of us who have gone through and been admitted to law school know this is almost always the case. As for business school, I am doing a joint degree program so I cant really speak on if you went right to b-school. I do think it would be a very interesting position, but if IB is your dream (it is mine as well) you should be trying to get there at all costs. I am going to a non-target b-school/law school and was able to break into IB no problem.
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