Harvard vs. Wharton for undergrad?

There are a few detailed threads covering this so you should do a search to get more detailed answers.

In short: They essentially offer the same recruiting. I would personally choose Wharton because you get to take business classes, but you might choose Harvard for your own reasons.

Congrats.

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Harvard hands down. Less competition.

Wharton

go where you'll enjoy; both have a slightly negative rep for bad culture (as opposed to williams, princeton, etc) but they are the top schools in the world for finance and you can find fun at both schools

If you're hardcore business, I would go with Wharton. If not, Harvard.

Thanks for the responses!

I know that I definitely want to go into business/finance, so it would make Wharton a clear choice since I would love to take practical business classes. But I feel that my parents/community don't want me to turn down Harvard, and I've already told everyone that I'm going to H, so it would be awkward to go back and change it.

Also, I heard that W is extremely competitive and intense, since all my classmates will want to go for the same job. I want to have a fun and laid-back undergrad experience. But then again, H doesn't seem like such a great time either.

Finally, I've heard that W recruiting is marginally better for finance, ie some firms recruit exclusively from W. Is this true and is it too much of a difference?

I've definitely been doing some research on this site, but more insights would be appreciated. Thanks!

When you look at a college, you are going to look at a variety of factors. For you, I think the most important are going to be class difficulty (how hard is it to get a strong GPA), social life and career opportunities post-graduation.

1. Class difficulty: Granted that you don't pick some obscure and impossibly difficult math/science major, the Harvard curve is going to make your academic life a lot less stressful. Wharton is infamous for the cutthroat nature of some of its students and the propensity for the curve to rape you even if you do well on exams (grades often get curved DOWN... ie, a low 90 often won't get you in the A range). When it comes to recruiting, having over a 3.5 allows you to check off an important box. At Harvard, it'll be easier to get that.

2. Social life: No one is going to tell you that Harvard's finals clubs are wilder and more fun than Wharton's Greek life. However, the greater Boston area is saturated with college girls who love Harvard guys. If you compare Boston vs Wharton/Philadelphia, Boston definitely wins.

3. Career opportunities: Slight edge to Wharton here, at least when it comes to business/finance. I need to emphasize the word SLIGHT. The only difference is that a select few firms recruit only at Wharton (Silverlake, for example). However, with the Harvard brand and a little bit of networking, getting an interview anywhere isn't going to be a problem.

I think another big difference between the two is that at Wharton, all you learn about is business. When you get into the working world, the majority of what you studied for four years gets thrown out the window and you essentially start fresh. Yes, Wharton kids do have an advantage over others, particularly those that didn't take any accounting/finance classes in undergrad. Most banks (I say most, because some of the boutiques have shorter programs) have long and extensive training programs that will largely get you up to speed. After a year, there's no reason why you shouldn't be on par with your business major peers; on top of that, you'll have a skill-set and knowledge base that they don't have. I think a liberal arts major is infinitely more useful than a business one. You learn how to write, think critically and argue effectively. It also gives you a unique perspective on business and the world in general, which could turn out to be very useful in the long run.

In the end, I'm going to have to disagree with the above posters: go to Harvard.

Also, I don't know if this matters too much, but I'm into the Joseph Wharton Scholars honors program...

I would disagree with DontMakeMeShortYou.

1. Class difficulty will not be an issue. Most of the stuff at Wharton, while interesting, is not that hard, unless you opt it to be by taking higher level courses. Getting a high GPA at Wharton is easy, especially if you load up on courses in Penn's college. The only people that say Wharton is cutthroat are people who never went there - it is not cutthroat at all. Like every other top school, it is competitive, but I would not say it is any more competitive than Harvard. Is there a curve? Yes. But it helps you most of the time. I call bullshit on that low 90's not being an A thing, it is more like when you get a 50 you can still walk away with a B on a very hard test. The curve helps you more often than not. Wharton also forces you to collaborate because there is a lot of non-text book learning and team building exercises in things like Management 100. Also, if you like finance, the Professors at Wharton are the best in the world in the field. Since you are a Joseph Wharton Scholar it is a NO BRAINER! You will get a LOT of time with the top finance professors in the world to work on a pet research project, at Harvard you would just be one of a million. Even without JWS, I would go to Wharton if you like business.

2. Penn's social life kills Harvard's hands down. Firstly, the girls at Villanova are super hot, way hotter than the shit you find in Boston, and they will go just as crazy for a Wharton kid as a BU chick would for a Harvard dude. There are a lot of colleges around Philly and the party atmosphere around Penn is just much better. Penn is known as the social ivy for a reason; the women, I have found, are also much better looking at Penn and way more likely to put out. Downtown Philly kicks Boston's ass around the park, Boston feels more like a large town than a city, Philly is the real deal. Much better food, much better clubs, and the kids you are haning out with will be more outgouing in all likely hood. Plus, Spring Fling at Penn is the biggest college party on the east coast, it does not get better than Penn in the ivy league, period.

3. Yeah, for the top Hedge Funds, PE firms etc, advantage to Wharton. If there is a job opening and two equal kids from Wharton and Harvard apply, the Wharton kid is getting the job.

4. "All you learn about in Wharton is business" that just proves you did not go there. HALF of Wharton's classes are in the liberal arts, so you get the same base as the Harvard kids, but instead of concentrating in Japanese literature and having expertise in that, you concentrate in finance. Plus, if you have a tangential interest, you can also do a double degree with the college which is a breeze to do. A Wharton degree gives you the option of not getting an MBA (since the undergraduate program gives you just about everything), so you could go on to get a JD and be in the work force with both skill sets (while saving a hell of a load of time and money since you do not have to get a JD/MBA like you would if you went to Harvard).

Plus, there is always the option of going to Harvard for your MBA, if you decide you need one. That way you could pull off of both networks.

If you were just comparing Wharton vs Harvard, I'd say go to Wharton, but both are superb choices (at least you do not have the ignominy of going to Yale or somewhere distasteful like that). Since you are comparing Wharton JWS to Harvard, there is no question about it, Wharton wins hands down.

Bottom line: go to Wharton.

We're obviously both biased in our opinions--will just agree to disagree.. Never did I claim that I went to Wharton... only going off of what I've heard from my friends/co-workers.

We do agree on the fact that either choice is great (and better than Yale). Not going to get into a dick-swinging contest on this.

^^ I agree. +1

You sound like you wanna go to Wharton. So go there and go to HBS for an MBA.

You are 18 and already know you want a career in finance? What are the chances over the next four years you will change your mind? I am not too familiar with the party seen in Philly but hear great things about Penn's student body. I know Boston is a city with a college town feel. In response to the folks above saying the women are attractive in Philly I remembered this article from a few years ago http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSAT25368720071022 Congrats on getting into both schools and please ignore the dick swinging above. Women will not sleep with you just because you go to Harvard or Wharton if you are a shy pimply nerd. Consider them equal in exit opps and go where you will have more fun and learn more. Best of luck

^^yes, I'm pretty sure. My parents used to be in the industry, and I've done internships (at small local places, of course).

So is it generally agreed that W has an advantage over H for PE/hedge funds?

And honestly, city doesn't really matter. I'm equally okay with Cambridge and Philly (though the Boston area does have a slight, and only very slight, advantage)...

I still would go to Harvard. Do your research yourself. Look at the list of people at the top PE/HF and see what undergraduate they went to.

We are here to provide advice, but if you want to know, you should check out their websites/linkedin and see how many are from Harvard undergraduate vs. Wharton.

You can get into any firm from Harvard OR Wharton (yes, Wharton does have a slight edge... not really all too significant however).

Also, if you're worried about not having an accounting/finance curriculum at Harvard, remember you can take classes at MIT's Sloan.

What you should be concerned about is where you want to BE for the next 4 years. Where do you think you would be happiest? Think campus, surrounding area, people, etc. Pick the best fit and everything else (especially career) will take care of itself.

Anyone who would ever advise someone to pick Wharton over Harvard is either

1. a Penn alum or
2. a high school kid

Disregard their opinions. Listen to the rest of the world instead.

One more point. People at harvard who want to go into investment banking do take the accounting course at Sloan. They all say Sloan is a joke.

If you wanted to pursue other courses in the business school... you are freely to do so also. But most kids at Harvard know they can learn everything during training so they don't want to waste their courses on stuff at the Sloan school.

^^ Stop. You are embarrassing Harvard. Your arguments, if I can call them that, are completely devoid of logic.

SirBankalot:

Your school sucks

Douches like you denigrate Harvard’s reputation. Have some fucking humility, your attitude will get you nowehre. I bet this kid chooses Wharton just because of you.

If you're really set on business I would go to Wharton. I'm just finishing senior year too and I'm going to Cornell AEM next year. Granted I couldn't get into HYP, I didn't even bother applying because I'm so focused on business and the courses wouldn't have been that interesting and harder for me than finance courses.

Thanks for the advice!

So a couple last questions: I keep on hearing different things about recruiting. Some say it's at the same level, but others say that W is a little better for things like PE/HF-- is that true?

Also, I feel like there would be a disadvantage in going to W because everybody wants the same jobs and will compete for the same job, but I don't know the validity of this reasoning...

One thing that they really stressed at the AEM introduction is that the students weren't overly competitive like they said students are at Wharton. I'm sure it's not really as bad as they made it seem because they were trying to sell the school and the main competition was Wharton. However, I'm sure there is some truth to what was said but I can't personally say how much.

One of my friends will be attending Harvard next year and he seemed to get along with everyone he met there and said everyone was really nice.

There are a few hedge funds and PE firms that recruit exclusively from Wharton (like Silver Lake). The ones that recruit at both concentrate at getting kids from Wharton. IF PE, VC, or HFs is your goal straight out of college, Wharton gives you a leg up (and you need every leg up you can get considering how exclusive such oppertunities are). That's a fact and anyone in the industry will corroborate that. So yes, there is an advantage to Wharton. That is because, unlike banks, top PE and Hedge funds do not have as many resources to have a large training program so they like the facts that the Wharton kids know their stuff already. So Wharton kids have an advantage to get a job since they know essentially as much as the MBAs. If you are thinking about job prospects, then go to Wharton for sure. If you are thinking that it is equally likely that you will become a professor or a banker, or a doctor, go to Harvard. It's that simple really.

You would not be at a disadvantage to Wharton, because there are just around the same number of people who want to get into banking at Harvard as there are at Wharton (unlike Y and P) so that point is null. Furthermore, it is all about how good you are. If you are not going to make it at Wharton, you won't make it at Harvard and vice versa. The industry is not stupid enough to make a back door into the industry by making it way easier at one school than another. Plus, not everyone at Wharton wants banking. There are only 500 kids and many want S&T, Hedge Funds, PE, Consulting, VC etc. They're probably fewer kids at Wharton that want banking than Harvard simply because the Wharton kids are more likely to know what else is out there other than banking. The ones that do get jobs pretty darn easily. If your worry is about getting a banking job coming out of Wharton, don’t worry it is a breeze. They will take as many qualified people from each school as they can. That point is just hogwash because there is nothing else to argue about. Is HBS competitive? Is Goldman Sachs competitive? is DE Shaw competitive? No shit. But Wharton and Harvard are equally competitive internally and both will prepare you for competition in the real world which will help you get ahead.

Lastly, Wharton is not cut-throat or any more competitive than top schools. No shit, when you put the smartest kids in the world in a class together where everyone is used to being the best ,there is going to be some competition. But because you grade each other in MGMT 100 and you have many many team projects, you learn early on that it is important to work collaboratively. That's the Wharton way. So you will find that people do work together as you HAVE to in order to succeed at Wharton. There is a sense of collegial brotherhood and sisterhood since they all have common goals.

You can't go wrong. Just choose mate.

Disclaimer: I actually attend Wharton.

Regardless of their interest in the field, many Whartonites do apply to ibanking internships. If you want to actually work in HF or PE straight out of school, you realize its hard getting an amazing firm straight out of school and would be willing to do IB for the summer if you couldn't get something reputable.

Wharton kids are not necessarily more likely to know what is out there besides banking. The herd mentality sets in by freshman/sophomore year.

Time and time, I've been hearing that some top PE and HF firms recruit only at Wharton and nowhere else. I'm a junior at Wharton and the only one I know that CONSISTENTLY does this is Silver Lake. BX, Apollo and Bain Cap do recruit from other places (not sure about Bain, but given how they have a hard-on for soft skills/consulting, I'm sure they'd recruit at harvard). Sure, we have a few HFs that recruit from Wharton but they only recruit on a as-needed basis. I may be missing 1 or 2 top HFs that only recruit FT from Wharton.

My point is: Relative to Harvard, Wharton's edge in recruiting comes down to Silver Lake and maybe 1-2 well-known HFs. There may be a few top HFs that recruit out of cycle at Wharton but that effect could also be true at Harvard. So unless you're positive that you want (and are capable of getting) Silver Lake, you should not narrow "Harvard vs. Wharton" down to exit opps.

Feel free to PM if you want more detailed info but I hope you get the idea.

You shouldn't go to either of them if you couldn't find a semi-decent answer on your own when this question is raised at least once a month.

If you pick Wharton over Harvard because Silver Lake Partners recruits there, do this world a favor and kill yourself. I'll be honest with you, unless your dad/mom/uncle/aunt can hook you up with that sweet IB internship @ BB/elite boutique after sophomore year, your chances of getting in SLP round up to about 0.00%.

I bet my nuts you'll have few kids in your class who will intern at top BB Groups after sophomore year because of family connections.

Which school did you end up choosing?

Harvard.

Whats an HF firm?

It's a "High Fidelity" firm. They deal in the music and related industries mainly. I had a friend of a friend who worked at one, very prestigious and secretive. Practically no one even knows the answer to that question. You are very lucky that I am here.

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