Wharton vs Top Ivies?

what i think you need to do:

gather up all of the literature you can about the subject take a nice, relaxing bath while toasting a bagel on the bathtub ledge

be careful not to let that toaster fall in the bath though!

finally, and this is a little secret of mine that saves lots of time, go ahead and blow dry your hair whilst still in the tub

after having done all of this, the answer should be clear

You have all the information...now its time to make a choice. I would go with Wharton, but that's just me.

This decision is entirely up to you. I had the same decision back in the day, I chose Wharton and ended up at HBS. I am darn glad I made that choice. I honestly feel that I learned more at Wharton than I learned at HBS - although I cherish both experiences, but that's just me. I am not you; I have a feeling that you know where you want to go, have the courage to embrace your decision. God knows that if you end up in trading, you'll have to be able to make tough decisions decisively – this is good practice.

The fact that you are on this site posting this is indicative of something in your personality, as is the methodical way you've gathered your pretty darn accurate information. I know it’s scant to judge you based on that, but judging on that alone, you seem to have the Wharton personality type and a slight pre-professional bend – you’d fit in better there. Culture-wise, Harvard is the closest to Wharton, then Princeton, Yale is very different – it’s practically Wharton’s anti-thesis.

If the HYP school that you got into was Yale, look up the "Yale thing" joke. JK, don't do that. Just make a decision.

Wharton is just a glorified trade school. HYP or bust!

You might think I'm kidding, but I'm serious. I have nothing against the University of Pennsylvania College of Arts and Sciences, nor do I look unfavorably upon the College of Engineering. I even think Wharton is an excellent graduate school of business. Nevertheless, my allegiance belongs to the (increasingly unpopular) camp which maintains that an undergraduate education should teach students not simply a trade but a way of approaching life itself. In this regard, I believe HYP far surpass Wharton (though I suspect HYP are also beginning to gradually deviate from said objective).

The purpose of an undergraduate education is not to simply teach us the skills that will put bread on our tables, but to provide us with instruments that will facilitate a greater understanding and appreciation of that very life which the bread is meant to sustain.

To the OP. If you got into one of HYP, I strongly recommend you attend that school over Wharton.

Personally, I would go Wharton. There is no denying its placement in business and it rules supreme on Wall Street. Plus, Penn's the social ivy, so I'm sure you'd have fun at the same time. But, if you know you may want to do something, which is totally fine/normal, then I'd pick the one out of HYP that you got into. IMO Princeton's campus is freaking gorgeous, but then again its got that WASPy atmosphere, so if you're an international it might be hard to fit in. I've heard/read Yale's not the strongest at finance at least compared the rest of HYP and New Haven is a dump. Harvard, well its Harvard, so the prestige the name connotes will open a ridiculous number of doors for you, but at the same time Harvard's atmosphere may not be for you.

I go to one of the HYP schools, but I am from just outside Philadelphia so I have a good number of friends at Penn (including one at Wharton). I have spent a fair amount of time hanging out at Penn as well as one of the other HYP schools (have a good friend and ex-girlfriend at one of them), and I can honestly say that there is no comparison. The academic environment at HYP truly unlike any other school I have visited. Penn felt more like Duke (somewhere else I have spent time visiting friends).

As for the social scene, Penn's is certainly more traditional (rows of run-down frat houses serving cheap beer), as opposed to Princeton's eating clubs (rows of multi-million dollar mansions serving cheap beer) and Harvard's Finals clubs (rows of multi-million dollar town houses serving cheap beer). Overall, I'd admit Penn's social scene probably has a bit more going on (being in Philly helps), and the girls in the nursing school are all incredibly cute. But I've had a good time partying at each of HYP too, so I don't think the difference is enough to give Wharton the edge.

If you are 100% set on doing business, then I guess Wharton isn't a bad choice, but if there is any chance that you might want to do something else (and as a senior in high school, there is no way you are 100% about anything), then HYP is definitely the way to go. Wharton may make you a better 1st year analyst, but going to HYP will actually make you smarter, and in the long-term that's going to be a lot more useful.

Otter: It's true. Wharton is very competitive. I feel like my harvard compadres have had more fun than I did in college. But there is no denying the top notch education.

v

that's for damn sure

If you're 110% sure about a business career immediately after college (especially finance), then go to Wharton undergrad.

Otherwise, you will likely have a more well rounded experience at HYP or even at Penn CAS if you're not entirely sure what you want to do - it'll give you more room to explore. Or other top well rounded universities like Stanford, Duke or the liberal arts colleges out there.

Or another way to put it, if you're choosing between majoring in econ at HYP (or similar) versus Wharton undergrad, go to Wharton undergrad. But if you're looking for a solid liberal arts or pure sciences education - you will find a more dynamic experience outside of a top business program like Wharton.

The good and bad (depending on how you look at it) of a business undergrad whether it's Wharton, Stern, Michigan, etc. is that the educational experience is almost exclusively centered around recruiting -- as are most of the students. So the experience can feel a bit more "transactional" - i.e. purely a means to an end. Your peers are basically focused on jobs, with some whose focus borders on the pathological. It's not better or worse than the more well-rounded, exploratory experience of other schools - just different.

So it's really a function of your own personal values and what you deem to be ultra important.

I'll probably reveal my own personal biases here, but the value of a liberal arts education (or a pure sciences, or anything that isn't a purely "professional" program like business or engineering) won't be immediately tangible or apparent -- but is something you may likely be glad to have done decades after the fact. This is my own personal opinion, but in my view the professional programs like engineering and business are better at teaching practical knowledge, but at the expense of nurturing intellectual curiosity and imagination - compared to the liberal arts and pure sciences. Practical knowledge is tangible but a depreciating asset (all the technical stuff you learn in business and engineering and comp sci won't have much impact on your day-to-day decades from now) -- but a deep sense of intellectual curiosity and imagination can last for a lifetime.

Put it this way. Certainly, some of the most imaginative and curious people I've met (in business and personal life) had engineering and business backgrounds (but their imaginative attitude and curiosity in my view was in spite of their formal education) -- however, more often than not the more curious, imaginative and dynamic folks I've met when I was in banking, working in Silicon Valley startup land (and working with VCs, entrepreneurs, etc), my clients, in life, etc and so forth - tended to have liberal arts and pure sciences backgrounds. I can't really explain why, but I think what a liberal arts or pure sciences education teaches you is an appreciation for learning for its own sake (rather than "if this knowledge has no immediate or obvious practical value I won't learn it" which is a very transactional approach to learning that is the focus of most professional programs like business or engineering). You can't measure the value of intellectual curiosity and imagination in dollars and cents, but it can have a huge impact on your quality of life (which is not the same as your standard of living), as well as on the organizations or companies you work with.

One of my favorite quotes of all time is from Einstein himself: "Imagination is more important than knowledge."

And innovation in any field (arts, business, technology) is rooted in imagination. In my opinion, lib arts and pure sciences are better at nurturing the former, whereas professional programs are better at nurturing the latter.

But again, if you're 110% sure about business and you simply want to get a high paying analyst job out of college and you see anything that isn't practical as "fluff", then go to Wharton. Different strokes for different folks.

Doesnt really matter in terms of prestige. Some choices are hard to make in life but still quite randomly made retrospectively (in fact i would argue, all choices are that way). I am also an intnl and I was at Penn, if you want to brag to your friends at home who dont really have any idea about anything happening in the world, when you say you went to Harvard, they will be impressed. When you say Wharton, they will say "cooool". So if in 30 years, you want to be the prime minister of the country you are from, Harvard will attract more votes for you because more people are going to think you are one of the smartest people on earth, which is not necessarily true for Harvard or Wharton or Princeton, as far as I have seen. I think when you are 80 years old, you will be more happy having died as a Harvard grad. Come to Wharton for MBA.

If you want the Harvard brand name, go get a Harvard MBA. If you go to Wharton undergrad and get a Harvard MBA, you have the best of all worlds. You get the hardcore technical finance knowledge that Wharton does best (and could potentially get you some very elite jobs that are essentially available only to Wharton undergrads) and you get the case method of instruction and general management skills from Harvard -as well as the prestige that makes donkey drivers in Egypt go "wow". The only way you will be able to experience both methods of business education is to go to Wharton for undergrad. That is an unbeatable combination.

I absolutely agree that a liberal arts education "broadens the mind" which is why I am so happy that you can do that at Wharton. Half of your classes are in the liberal arts; finance is going to be your concentration, the equivalent of the Harvardian who takes ancient Japanese literature or economics but dabbles in all that other stuff. Your liberal arts base is the same; you just specialize in something other. You can still study philosophy, science, and what have you at Wharton and have a broad open mind. But having an open mind is mostly self-taught. You can easily read books to your heart’s content in your free time and gain that long after you are in the work force. Getting a liberal arts education is not limited to school, if you are smart enough to get into Wharton, you will be able to acquire that other stuff both at Wharton and after it. All of the things Alex says about a liberal arts education that you would get at HYP are also available at Wharton; the two are not mutually exclusive.

Go to Wharton, you will broaden your mind, have a lot of fun at the "social ivy" - I know I did, have the option of getting some of the most elite jobs possible, and get a set of skills that are unparalleled and applicable to what you will do for the rest of your life- no matter what you do.

When I die, I am pretty damn sure that I will be just as happy to be a Wharton alum as I am to be a Harvard alum.

The conversation was about HYP, not just Harvard originally. However, if it is Harvard you're considering, go. Unparalleld brand recognition and it provides effectively the same job opps as Wharton. In fact, certain top places (Blackstone, McKinsey) that hire almost no ugrads are a lot more likely to hire from Harvard than Penn.

Now, if you're at the very top at Penn (maybe in Huntsman) you might get some opps at PE/VC that are not available to top Harvardites. Also, if you're average at Penn the business education might give you a boost in securing finance jobs over someone who was avearage at Harvard.

My advice assumes you will be a top candidate at each school, maybe not just THE top. I think it still holds for Y and P, just not to the same extent. There is just so much value to being at the top, even relative to second place.

P.S. Went to school not in same league as these, this is based on what i have observed in the recruiting process

If you want do business, go to H/Y

1. Brandname of H/Y vs. Wharton is not the same level on the street or anywhere else. This is especially important if you want to have a career outside of the U.S. (which is probably relevant in your case since you are international) where Wharton means nothing to a big group of people, the same actually goes for P which is less prominent abroad.

2. The business preparation aspect, it is true that academically Wharton has more relevant courses than HY, but you don't necessarily need them to prepare well for the job interviews. HY has pretty good courses in corporate finances which are pretty much the only courses you need to prepare for ibd interviews, the marginal benefit of other business classes that you need to get an ib job is basically 0. for st there is also a pretty rigorous course in capital markets at HY, I can't compare it with Wharton but I can't imagine the capital markets class in Wharton being more rigorous/quant.

Hence the fact is that the finance job interview process is too simple (in terms of technical knowledge) to give Wharton an edge. On a side note I have interviewed a bunch of Wharton undergraduats majoring in business/accounting/etc. who are actually knew surprising little about finance, not saying that Wharton has a bad program just want to point out that Wharton's preparation might be less applicable than you think.

3. Think like a long term investor

Assuming if you want do business long term (if you are not then you should go to HYP anyway). Do you think you will know less about finance in 5-6 years time if you went to HY instead of Wharton, most likely not. But you probably more about Kant, Mozart, Watson than the Wharton Grad (despite the claim that Wharton offers liberal art classes, the fact is that the Wharton Grads in the top banks/P.E. are more finance focused than their HY peers). The fact that you have interesting stuff to talk about is pretty important when you are with clients/portfolio companies/bosses and so on at a later stage in your career.

4. Business school

you don't understand how easy it is to get into Harvard/Stanford B School when you graduate from HY. If you had a decent gpa (>3.5), ok gmat (>700), decent job (bb ibd, st), that's probably all you need. Also I almost never hear any HY grads going to Wharton for B school (yes we do think it is a downgrade) and the opposite exists in abundance.

If it is Harvard, I'd say it is a 50/50 thing all things considered, it is your call - but I would choose Wharton, but only so that I could go to Harvard grad school and have access to both networks. I still think Wharton out does Harvard in essentially all PE positions at the undergrad level, some firms recruit exclusively at Wharton undergrad. I’m not sure your Blackstone anecdote is correct, but whatever I don't work there so I may be wrong. But really, these schools are so close it is really splitting hairs at the point. If you know you want to do business and think that you want to get an MBA, go to Wharton and get your MBA from Harvard - you get to experience both business schools that way. If you know you don’t want an MBA (i.e. you want to be a trader) go to Wharton. If you think you might want to become a Prof., a doctor, or whatever, and a career in finance is just one of many options then Harvard is probably the best choice.

If it is Princeton, I'd go to Wharton – but personal choice would factor into my decision.

If it is Yale, I would certainly go to Wharton – it is not represented as the other three in high finance. Networking is key.

I'm willing to bet $100 that the guy above me went to Yale. Try to be objective bro; we are talking about the whole industry, not just IB. You know just as well as I that the top jobs in finance are far more demanding, and require a lot more financial knowledge than IB. Wharton gives you a huge advantage for such jobs.

And if getting into HSW is so easy, then he can easily get the Harvard brand name later by attending business school. Problem solved.

I've seen this topic done at least 2 other times in the last 30 days.

Protip: At HYPW they'll expect you to have some degree of common sense so you should be able to know how to use a search function.

Lets cut the shit. Wharton will absolutely not make you "dumber" than HYP kids, that's just stupid. Kids from Wharton have succeeded in many areas outside of banking (Josh Koplemen, the weirdo who started Zynga). I dated a girl from Harvard for a while & have worked with another, & really I'm not that impressed. The people I've meet from Wharton, MIT, Stanford, Cornell, & Georgetown have all blown the previous two out of the water in terms or perception.

Go were you feel comfortable. The social scene at Penn is a little more open. The people who have the awesome parties at Princeton & Harvard are the legacy kids that went to boarding school together. And more likely than not if you didn't summer with them previously, you're not really invited. It's just kind of the way it is. Go were you feel at home. You won't be at a disadvantage.

^I don't know if you know this, but there are parties at places other than Ivy at Princeton.

I have heard though that competition is pretty fierce in Wharton, and that it's damned hard to get a job at some places because you're competing all the other geniuses in your class. The atmosphere gets pretty intense, almost too much so. Great if you're into that though.

You can still get a good liberal arts perspective if you're in Wharton. Aside from the core courses, you only need to take four classes for a Wharton concentration. This leaves a lot of room to pursue liberal arts classes from Penn's College, which is still very good. And, Penn is pretty flexible in terms of academic requirements, giving you a lot of room to explore whichever intellectual areas interest you, and allowing you to get a minor or dual degree relatively easily.

The Wharton classes and education that Penn offers is simply something that is not really available at HYP, whereas virtually all aspects of the liberal arts education that HYP offers is offered by Penn as well. Also keep in mind that Wharton isn't just finance. There are something like 20 concentrations with interesting areas like Real Estate, Legal Studies, Business Public Policy, etc.

I'm not necessarily saying to go to Wharton or one of the other three ivies, that's your decision to make, and it's definitely not an easy one. But keep in mind that going to Penn might leave you with a more balanced worldview, both intellectual and practical, as oppposed to HYP which might seem almost entirely intellectual / theoretical.

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for their insightfull posts which have really made me think about this desicion, however, right now I am leaning towards Wharton and I will tell you why.

Where I come from and generally all around the world (in my experience) undergraduate studies are supposed to prepare you for your future career, not to spark your interest, over here that would be considered a monumental waste of time and money because you are already expected to know what you want to do right out of highschool. This might sound crazy to you but highschoolers here seek internships and ask many people to decide what they want, I did this and more to realize I wanted to go into business. Nevertheless, I am aware that even though I feel confident that I know I want to go into business, it is not set in stone and that is the benefit of a liberal arts education. Wharton gives me a liberal arts education with a strong business background, a good balance.

Regarding some of the above posts, I do not feel that a university, however good it might be, could not make you anymore or anyless intelectually curious, more intelligent as someone posted (I find this ridiculous), or even change the way you approach life. I believe that these are things that either we were born with or a consequence of how we were raised ( I can sort of agree that a university can change the way you approach life but I think that is a long journey of self-perfection through life experieces and wheather you attended HYP or Penn will have minimal impact). HYP might seem as though they shape up intellectually curious alums but the fact of the matter is that HYP attract intellectually curious kids, the student body shapes up the university not the other way round. I consider myself very intelectually curious and believe that no university can change this, for better or for worse (correct me if I am wrong). Given all the above I think that I am not missing out on anything by attending Wharton but gaining much more.

I just have one more question to Wharton alums, if you could do it all over again, would you choose Wharton?

Just in case people wanted to know, I got into Harvard but I wanted to avoid the typical 'dude its harvard, harvaaaards!' Bias.

Bahena2: Here is another opinion from a Wharton alumn.
If you got into Harvard, I say go for it. The networking is incredible there. Are you so sure that you want to work in IBD? I mean yes Wharton might take you farther for IBD/PE, but how do you know already?

If you aren't 100% sure you want that path, you will enjoy life at Harvard alot more. Wharton is so pre-professional with people already attending information sessions as freshman and acting like tools. You have classes where teachers force u to participate about the dumbest crap ever, and especially when the answers obvious you still have to play dumb and answer it. Yes maybe it makes u more well-rounded and speak up whenever you want, but the classes at Harvard I bet are alot more interesting.

It's Harvard. Best undergraduate education you can get in the whole world. Was I challenged at Wharton? I guess I was a bit, the hardest finance courses I thought weren't that hard. But at harvard, you can be intellectually challenged and enjoy it. Plus Harvard has grade inflation while at Wharton we are always on a curve.

Seriously grade inflation is so worth it.

Dude, if you got into Harvard...go there! then go to Stanford or Wharton for bschool.

Qwerty:

I was trying to make a distinction between firms that are merely highly selective (BX, McK) and firms that technically don't even take undergraduates, but in reality take a few special ones annually (many PE/VC) funds. I think the latter are more likely to end up with a few crazy Wharton kids who got on the radar.

Perhaps I was wrong about BX. However, I did meet a lot of their analysts so there'd have to be something going on for the sampling to be so off.

If you want MBB, Harvard is a better place to go. There is less competition.

You guys do know that BX also hires kids from Cal/UVA, both of which are far from Harvard/Wharton? Also, Lazard didn't even do a presentation @ Yale.

Picking a school just because firm XYZ recruits there or school has more billionaires is straight-up retarded. Good luck getting BX, SLP, or Citadel @ Wharton. There will be 499 other students desiring same jobs, and I bet 25% of them will have great IB/PE connections for that sweet BB IB internship after sophomore year.

My MD graduated from Wharton in 80's. He had only one B/A- in his entire undergrad career. He graduated 2nd in his class. That was almost 30 years ago when students didn't care about their GPA as much.

Bottom line is, if you argue what's better, Wharton or Harvard for undergrad, get a fucking life.

P.S.: I hope my friend doesn't mind me mentioning this fact (he is also a WSO monkey). He beat few kids from Wharton during 2nd round for an SA gig @ BB. He went to school that's not even in top-100 and no one was pulling strings for him.

PussinBoots hit the nail on the head. Great advice. Just go wherever you like best.

To the poster who said that HYP will make you smarter where Wharton will make you a good 1st year analyst : A library card will make you smart. Every super smart 21 year old kid I have ever met simply excels in regurgitating text book material. Gotta get a couple years of experience under your belt first.

I really respect the kids who kick ass and take names with a non target schools diploma hanging on their wall. Those kids are the ones who actually have to be competent and hungry. If you need a Harvard diploma to get into banking thats pretty sad.

Threads like these ruin this place.

Which school did you end up choosing?

I ended up choosing Wharton, no regrets.

you are gonna regret it. Harvard is #1.

PA, what's your problem? Did you have bad experience at Penn? Did you not get the job you wanted? For god's sake, not everyone is as bitter about their college experience as you are. No need to insult Penn at every turn possible.

You never went to Harvard, how are you so sure it trumps Wharton? If I were to do it all again I would go to Wharton undergrad, just as I did before. I knew tons of kids that turned down HYPSM for Wharton. For a kid interested in business, Wharton is clearly number 1. If need be, you can go to Harvard for your MBA. You made the best choice possible bahena2.

My 2 cents (from Harvard)

First, a lot of people are throwing a lot of BS around (eg. finals clubs being million dollar townhouses ... clearly you've never seen them ... the land is worth that, but they're quite run-down).

Second, it depends on what area you'd like to pursue in Finance. For IBD/PE I would say Harvard is weaker (though it has the brand). We don't really have an undergrad business program. I looked at the Wharton undergrad offerings - they tend to be more along the lines of what HBS offers.

Harvard introduced a 'finance-track' a year or two ago - its entirely quantitative. This is basically the entire story - if you want to enter finance with a CS, Math, Stats background I'd say Harvard offers the brand and a solid solid education (though in those majors you'll work hard as hell).

Since you seem to have your shit together, feel free to PM me and we can talk about the school in more detail.

My own personal perspective is that:

Harvard = Princeton > Yale = Wharton

disclaimer: You can't go wrong with any of these schools and there could be an argument to be made about the advantages of each one... i just tend to find kids from H/P (and I'm friends with dozens of them) to be the best and the brightest.... very, very subjective.