If you are looking to stay in finance (like Investment Banking, Private Equity or Hedge Funds) which MBA program is better in terms of classes, connections, etc?
Harvard has a slight "prestige" edge, but I think Wharton might offer better options to students looking for a more rigorous financial experience. less operational / managerial?
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I have heard similiar descriptions. Wharton is focused more on finance while Harvard is focused more on operations.
I don't think you can go wrong either way, but I am sure someone on here has actual experience to speak from.
Don't underestimate the prestige factor of HBS/Stan. The most PE/HF/VC jobs come out of these two schools with Wharton in third. However, due to this elitism, you will have shops that only hire HBS/Stan.
This is true for pure recruiting. There are a lot of wharton alumni out there tho, so if you have a good skill set networking shouldnt be a problem. Coming from a case undergrad, the method helps you more as a manager and problem solver but lacks a bit on the technical background till elective courses. So decide what kind of experience you want first then decide.
If you know you want to study finance, then go to Wharton.
Harvard definitely has a strong record of placing grads in PE jobs, but both schools are top notch in all aspects. The major difference is in the style of classes. Wharton is very quantitative, whereas Harvard emphasizes the "soft" skills of strategic thinking and creative problem solving a lot more. You should go with whichever style seems more suited to you.
do you think 2 years of work experience (IB) after college (overseas student) is enough to get in to Harvard/stanford?
Anyone know any stellar applicants that have been able to get into HBS or Stan without any WE? I know its a stretch, but there have been some. I just want to know what kinds of things these schools look for when taking in an applicant with no WE.
i know of two people that got into Bschool with no WE (HBS/Wharton). I think the most important things seem to be really strong academics from a top college, a good GMAT (720+), and, most importantly, really good business experience either from summers or a school-year venture. in the interview you need to come across as really mature.
Yes, B schools are moving towards younger applicants.
imho hbs - alumni network, management training
Here are my bullets: 1. HBS best name recognition (better than Wharton) 2. HBS in no way any worse in finance than Wharton -- look at the profs who teach there and the profile of the class. 3. HBS network older, bigger, and better 4. EQs in HBS higher than Wharton 5. HBS campus light years ahead, not even comparable 6. Harvard Econ at FAS (College) one of best in the world, Wharton (??? never heard of theirs) 7. You always hear about HBS while at Wharton, you hardly ever hear about Wharton when at HBS. Does it ultimatly matter how successful you personally will be? Obviously not. Either one would do. Ceteris paribus, life will be just better at HBS if you are a good fit.
agree with most of your points but...
2b (class profile) and 3 are the decisive ones, 5 is nice to have. Dunno how 6 is relevant but probably true.
As for EQ, I think HBS kids are smoother in terms of people interactions on the whole, but higher ratio of borderline psychos... A matter of taste...
2a is not true simply because you can't really learn finance through case method, although HBS faculty probably just as qualified in the absolute (and I actually start to wonder whether you can actually learn anything through cases... after all those I've done, actual useful learning has been zilch. It's been interesting in a trivia factoid way, and usually good mcguffins for bullshit classroom discussions, but still a waste of time)
7 - would be curious how you know about this? where did you go? both places? I think wharton kids do have an inferiority complex vs. HBS (mostly stemming from fact that a lot/most of them got dinged by that place) but haven't really seen them caring that much about HBS unprompted... and how is this relevant anyhow?
I would add that HBS has both a much large groupie network and a detractor network, people either ready to cheer it on or slam it, while standing on the outside and despite the fact that none of them will ever be formally associated with the place. I think it is a substantial advantage for harvard, controversy adds to the mythos of the place, brand recognition etc. I mean, chill folks, it's just a school. A boring place to get a paper while you goof off and wait for the time to start making some real bucks :-)
To address the post above:
1) "Harvard" has better name recognition than "Wharton". "Harvard Business School" does not. There's nothing wrong with riding off the parent school's name, but realize there is a difference. 3) The alumni network issue follows my comments on #1--Wharton's network is both larger and older than HBS's network. Yes, Harvard's overall network is larger and older than Wharton's, but that's irrelevant. Same applies to other grad programs--it's like saying Columbia's network is larger than JFK's, so go to SIPA at Columbia and not JFK at Harvard. Yes, Columbia has a bigger network than JFK by itself, but not than Harvard overall. Compare apples to apples here. 5) Campus? Have you been to both? Yes, HBS's is prettier and bigger because it's separated from the main campus, but with Wharton's new building (opened somewhere around 2004) Wharton has more classroom space and is far more advanced from an IT point of view (which matters alot when you're trying to knock out a project at 4am and the network craps the bed on you).
i'm a recent wharton grad and generally it was fairly difficult to get PE jobs if you weren't in that industry before school.
How much does gmat matter for these schools?
a lot.
I plan to get my CFA before getting my MBA. How much does the Wharton/HBS finance curriculum overlap?
is the key issue here. Going to HBS to pursue a finance focus is akin to playing soccer professionally in the US. For anything other than finance, however, I would recommend HBS without a second thought. Also note that VC/PE (two areas in which HBS excels) are not really "finance" disciplines per se...more of a mix of operations and finance (particularly VC). VC/PE players add value through operations and strategy, not through finance. By finance I mean S&T, hedge funds, maybe even pure banking.
I did go to both of these schools (one for undergrad, the other for MBA).
gsb has grt finance credentials but a geeky image. how does that hold with recruiters?
go with harvard
Less work than Harvard (if that's possible), same education, great finance network. Harvard also has a reputation with many recruiters as having a bunch of dicks that feeled entitled to good jobs...
Harvard has something like 1.5x as many job postings as graduates. Prolly a good sign
In both reputation, name recognition and alumni network, HBS is easily ahead of Wharton (same probably not true for quality of education and atmosphere of campus). But then again, HBS is miles ahead of everyone else, with W/S in a comfortable 2/3
Wharton has a larger alumni network. HBS claims 65,000 alumni worldwide. Wharton claims 81,000. Wharton also has a much wider reach worldwide, with more alumni living abroad, more alumni in non-US high-level gov't post, more grads placed overseas, etc. Again, I am comparing HBS (not Harvard overall) and Wharton.
Reputation and name recognition is a little more debateable. I would note that on Wall Street Wharton has far more representation on the MBA level than HBS does on the sell-side. And in PE/VC and consulting the numbers are almost identical at either school. Where HBS does have a big leg up is in general management. Getting a general management job is just as easy out of either HBS or Wharton, but more people from HBS go into management then out of Wharton so there is more representation in that area.
Point is, HBS is not "miles ahead" of anyone else, Stanford, Wharton, Chicago, etc. And if you really think so then please back up your assertion with some recruiting numbers.
Comment: I think we can all agree VC's a very high profile and selective area to get into. Check out the "profiles" on the websites of all the decent VCs: 40% are HBS, 40% are Stanford MBA, the rest are some other MBA (including but not only Wharton) and some genius managers/entrepreneurs...
Wharton's 81K includes their undergrads, so it isn't a true apples-to-apples comparison.
HBS' class size is 900; Wharton (MBA) is 800. Looking at BW's data(http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/04/full_time_profiles/wharton3.htm), roughly 30% of each class (both HBS and Wharton) go into consulting and 30% into finance. Hence, more HBS alum (#s) are placed on wall-street and in the consulting firms.
Looking at the top level of consulting firms, there is a big skew towards HBS (http://www.BCG.com/this_is_bcg/leadership/leadership1.html or http://www.bain.com/bainweb/About/our_leaders.asp or http://www.McKinsey.com/ideas/wef2004/biographies/rajat.asp). BCG's founder Bruce Henderson is alum, as is Orit Gadiesh, chairman of Bain.
Same story for the heads of the top-tier banks (Whitehead, Weinberg Jnr, Paulson from GS, Dimon for JPM, Wasserstein, Parella, Jenrette, etc).
Go to http://www.Blackstone.com/team/default.asp or http://www.baincapital.com/team.asp?b=3&l=11 or http://www.carlyle.com/eng/team/l4-team1349.html or http://www.provequity.com/team.html and see where most of the PE guys got their MBAs from. VC is a similar picture, with more unconventional backgrounds in there as well.
Additionally, your claim about more Wharton grads being placed internationally is also not backed up by the BW data (16% Wharton vs. 19% HBS, with HBS having 100 more grads).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Wharton isn't a great school, all I'm saying is that HBS has an edge over Wharton (reputation and alumni network)- and the data seems to back that up.
Business Week's stats are wrong across the board. Keep in mind that both HBS and Wharton have refused to provide info to Business Week, so their data is not at all accurate. The proper data to use is each school's career report. HBS Class of 60: 899, Wharton: 825 HBS Consulting: 21% (189 people), Wharton Consulting: 28.7% (237 people) HBS Finance: 42% (377 people), Wharton Finance: 44.2% (365 people).
So the numbers are very similar. I said earlier that on the sell-side Wharton is more represented, which is very true. If you look at the associates classes for the major banks over the past few years you will find a far higher number of people from Wharton, Chicago, and CBS then you will from HBS. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm just saying that on Wall Street you don't run into all that many HBS people. And representation between the two is fairly equal in consulting. You are right about senior leadership, but keep in mind that decades ago few people got masters, so if you did get an MBA most went to HBS. As the demand for advanced degrees is increasing people can now choose between many schools. Point is, HBS is no longer the only game in town. So from a recruiting point of view HBS gives you no real advantage, overall, over Stanford or Wharton, or for that matter, Chicago, etc. The one possible exception is LBO/PE, but like another poster said, the vast majority who get those jobs out of b-school had experience prior to the MBA. So which school you go to isn't really the relevant point.
BTW it all comes down to who YOU are. The brand name can only allow you a chance to apply to bank/PE/consulting and have your resume read. But that's it.
Both HBS and Wharton are pretty equal
Cnnmoney.com just recently published a list of the 50 Best Business Schools for Getting Hired. Wharton was #1 and Harvard was #2, so they are both top-notch.
HBS is beautiful, was there for a conference not long ago.
Is it an advantage to have a Harvard B.A. degree when trying to place into HBS?
dongminate--probably not. I think schools tend to want you to branch out a little, as do employers. And you really should just for your own personal benefit. I knew a ton of kids at Wharton who went to Harvard ugrad, and did not even apply to HBS specifically because they wanted to do their grad studies at a different university. Likewise, I knew a ton of Wharton ugrads who avoided applying to Wharton for their MBA.
Harvard, reasons in no particular order -better name -better network -less asians -better campus (huntsman hall is a piece of shit) -better city -less jews -better resources because it's good at pretty much everything -cheaper -you'll get laid easier if you tell a broad you went to HBS than if you said Penn
is this a really good reason that makes HBS better? i doubt it.
"-you'll get laid easier if you tell a broad you went to HBS than if you said Penn" hilariously true
d
Wharton has higher prestige but HBS is cooler & more fun
You are kidding right? The joke is you don't get an MBA at Harvard, you get a MOU- Master of the Universe.
Wharton has higher prestige than HBS? One shouldn't pick a school based on prestige, but I have to say that you're crazy if you think Wharton is more prestigious than HBS.
^^^^ T-bagged last night.
Go to HBS
Go to HBS
i kno someone who got into HBS but not into Wharton...
For pure finance on an academic level, you should definitely go to Wharton.
Harvard for one reason: business is getting more and more global and Harvard is the only school everybody knows about. Don't underestimate that aspect. If you go to Asia and talk about Wharton, only the top mgmt will know about it for example.
Harvard gets my vote! Ask your grandma if she knows where's Wharton.
I definitely would chose HBS over Wharton.
I think its really like analyzing if Coke or Pepsi is better...really comes down to personal preference. Both schools have outstanding reputations and networks it's really which ever one strikes your fancy.
WEll...Bush went to Harvard, and Wharton's such a cool name. And it's Wharton!!! The school fricking sells itself!!!
Nobody cares about your grandma. And nobody cares about the opinions of peasant farmers in Asia. Go to the place that the higher-ups believe is best for your field. (i.e. Wharton for Finance, HBS for everything else)
Coke is way better than Pepsi, everybody knows that.
I say HBS, but really odds are slim that you will get into both, go wherever you get in. If you do get into both then go to their admitted students weekend and see what you like best.
"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead."
HBS is the only bschool I would go to by choice. Maybe Stanford.
Another Person - "Also note that VC/PE (two areas in which HBS excels) are not really "finance" disciplines per se...more of a mix of operations and finance (particularly VC). VC/PE players add value through operations and strategy, not through finance. By finance I mean S&T, hedge funds, maybe even pure banking."
VC/PE/HF sit at the top of the financial hierarchy so I am not sure how you consider those industries outside the realm of finance. VC/PE guys add value through operations and strategy AND through financial engineering. One need only look at the LBO’s in the 70’s and 80’s and more recently in the past few years before the meltdown how financial savvy allowed investors to create significant value through financial manipulation with limited improvements in operations.
If I get into HBS and Wharton; I am definitely going to HBS as the brand provides instant credibility (as do the brands of S and W but to a slightly lesser extent IMO).
Admitted to both programs. Thought should share some of what I found when I went through the process with both schools. I chose HBS over Wharton for the following reasons:
1) Opportunities: No door that is open to a Wharton grad is closed to a HBS grad. But on the other hand, there are some firms that come to HBS only for recruitment. This is true especially on the buy-side(investmnt, portfolio management & hedge funds) & evident in higher % of related placements AND being located in Boston.
2) Passion: Almost all the alumni I communicated with, talked with much more passion about the experience and the subsequent opportunities. Think this stems from the leadership & stronger soft skill inculcation.
3) Name recognition: Much higher, especially in emerging economies (Asia and Middle-east).
4) Case method: By being in the shoes of the potagonist, you become a fast "thinker on your feet". Sat in on a class - absolutely loved the dynamics. At Wharton more electives were available on Financial derivatives & Stats. But if it is something technical you always can learn it off a book (or google) :) I already have an accounting background & the CFA.
But all of this said, between these 2 schools, its about splitting hairs. The recruiters and head-hunters rank them pretty equally, so do the deciosion makers.
Honest question here--can you give an example? I'm asking because I've heard people mention this before, but I've never heard anyone give a specific name. I know all the biggest hedge funds and asset managers that do any MBA recruiting and are know to be rather selective at all go to Wharton as far as I know (D.E. Shaw, Citadel, PIMCO, etc.).
Which ones go to HBS only? And do those firms go to HBS alone, or do they also visit Stanford?
quite a few private equity firms. Warburg Pincus comes to mind.
we only hire at h/s for our MBA grads as well. also, from what i've heard, h/s are considered 'core' -- that is, even if they recruit at wharton, they have fewer interview spots and strongly prefer getting their candidates from harvard.
i basically agree with what has been said. there' s a good reason harvard has a 90% yield. it draws the best talent and provides the best opportunities.
From what I've heard and read, it seems that if your priority is prestige, go to Harvard, and if your priority is finance, go to Wharton.
Mine is bigger! No, mine is! No, mine is! No, mine is! No, mine is! Mommy, he's being a meanie. : (
I'm mean come on! You could say Harvard all the time if you went there. If you say it with the New England accent it sounds freaking sweet, Haavad.
You’re at some party. A girl says, "Where'd you go to school?" Response "I attend Haavad." Yeah, you've basically sealed the deal right there.
When you say Wharton it kind of sounds like you have marbles in your mouth, or a speech impediment.
Anyway, if you mix enough alcohol with Coke or Pepsi, they’re basically the same.
TheDudeness, i love the "marbles in your mouth" comment.
for the record, i think hbs and wharton are both great. I got waitlisted and then rejected at HBS and accepted at Wharton. I will let you all know how Wharton is...I have friends at both and they are all doing just fine with jobs / summer internships, etc.
watching our insatiable need for rankings and order is still entertaining ...so please continue.
congrats!
are you starting this fall?
i guess you'll have more time to devote to the site now. ;)
also, if you don't mind, stats? haha. us ambitious young whippersnappers are always looking to the future. ;)
Hey are you starting at Wharton this fall?
Hello, all - just curious if any of you have heard whether Harvard might offer an Executive MBA in the future. I recently discovered an April 18, 2001 Business Week article indicating a possible joint EMBA between Harvard/Stanford. Any insight? Thanks.
mjl
What are the average gmat scores for these two schools as well as an acceptable range?
780-800. If you don't have it, kill yourself.
780-800?? I call bs, unless the latest edition of US News ranking averages downward of up to 80 points. If i remembered correctly, the avg gmat for top schools are generally around 700-720s. And avg gpa around 3.5.
Wharton for Finance.
which school has hotter chicks
My Cambridge rowing side used to smash Oxford every year!
To the victor goes the spoils!!
I went to Wharton for graduate school- I am female. Hated it. People were cut throat, the neighbourhood was nasty, Philly is a pit, and this list goes on. One other student even told me,"It's a waste using up valuable slots for women since in five years, you'll all be home with children." He is now very successful on Wall Street.
I ended up leaving business shortly after business school. Getting a degree in engineering. Much happier now.
Sorry you had such a bad experience. As for that guy, what goes around comes around...
bump
Harvard or Wharton for Post MBA PE (Originally Posted: 12/28/2011)
I was fortunate to get in both. My post MBA goal is PE. I had one year of banking before transitioning to a VC/growth equity firm. I know HBS is highly regarded in the PE world, but given my shortened banking stint and more of a growth equity firm pre-MBA, would Wharton ease their concerns about my finance/modeling skills more than HBS would? I had a lot of live deal experience but I guess less of the traditional buyout type.
harvard
What type of PE are you aiming for? Megafund? MM? Growth Equity?
Buyout - want to switch out of growth equity. Likely MM given I don't have the traditional PE background.
You should ask WSO member "Brady4MVP". You shall receive sound, non-biased advice from that fellow.
But seriously, just go to Harvard man....
Yeah, Harvard is your best bet, hands down.
HBS
Thanks guys!
If you don't mind, what does your MBA application look like? Just curious.
Congrats, OP. I'd be curious to see this as well.
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