Question re health effects of investment banking
Serious question for those analysts out there- working 80+ hours per week in the office environment... how do you cope?
Specifically, back pain- how can a human sit for 15 hours a day and still have a lower spine that hasn't been crushed/ permanently deformed?? Has anyone you know had to quit because of back pain? Or staring at a screen? I want to know how you cope because it'd by my main concern in going for such a role. Strange that no one else seems to worry about this, from what I've seen in forums....
People say there's a lot of downtime before deals get sent through- so how much of the 80 hrs are you actually working?
I try to get up and walk around the office once an hour a so, even to just grab water or go to the bathroom. That usually helps.
IB is hazardous to your health (Originally Posted: 02/27/2012)
WSJ article.
Does this change any prospective monkey's or analyst's opinion of the industry? Or do you think you can "handle it" better than those in the study?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240529702040627045772236238249444…
Old news.
gimme some oreos u hoe
They're mine, they're all MINE!!!!!
Bank til you die
Obviously all those hours has to have an effect. I say that as a mid-30s guy. If I was younger I probably wouldn't have said that, so I'm not surprised that the initial replies blow this off. At the end of the day, there's something to be said for youth. IBD is a young person's game - it's where you can end up that's scary
Banking is Bad for your Health (Originally Posted: 02/15/2012)
From this morning's WSJ:
What do you monkeys think? This is stating the obvious, but all the Adderall, sleep deprivation, and sh*t-taking has to catch up to everyone someday.
from: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240529702040627045772236238249444…
-Adelbert
I don't think she has any idea what she's talking about.
The average banker gaining 30-40 pounds is completely ridiculous. Also, there is no way that associates were working 6am-midnight (no one gets there before 9am).
West Coast =/= New York
ROFLMAO.
Gee, ya think???
Does it count as insomnia if you aren't actually allowed to go to sleep? Is Seamlessweb an eating disorder?
They were still reeling from the departure of YoHoo
In other news, Eddie hates marriage and IP is cheap.
Not so. I love marriage, I just happen to think it's a horrendously bad idea. Like alcoholism.
Point taken.
Cheap means I party at 1Oak and leave a 10% tip. Thrifty means I grab a yuengling at a local dive bar's happy hour for $3 and leave a $1 tip.
I prefer the term "economically efficient"
BTW, I don't know how prevalent it is now, but a few years ago they barely shipped out of the PA/Maryland/Deleware region. I know they recently opened a distillery in Tampa or somewhere down south. Where do you live Illini?
it's the competition that drives me, love this work
Something about this post made me crack up.
Haters gonna hate
I've read plenty of posts on this at M&I, and honestly I'm not surprised that an official investigation found these results. But can some of you elaborate on this? As in, what does it feel like to spend a whole day running on red bull/Starbucks? Is everyone constantly tweaking on amphetamines?
I've had my fair share of school + work weeks that had me sleeping at 2am and waking up at 6 to start all over again. It was only worth it when I got to see people I enjoy being around and stayed active. Is there any time in IB to exercise during the day (i.e. some down time in the afternoon, etc)? Could I sneak out for a half hour run as long as i had my phone in case i was needed? Also can anyone shed light on the order out food options? How much can you spend on food each day?
Sorry for my ignorance guys.
Aren't you still in high school?!?
Yes, we have a pull-up bar in the office. You can usually make it to the gym most evenings; however, this is easier to do when you're full-time opposed to being an intern. Seamless is $25 for dinner plus lunch on weekends for most banks.
^ ^
no down time, you crank from 6am to 2am straight
Haha.
I never had trouble staying "up" for the job, my problems were always coming down after. That's where the booze came in. Might be the difference between trading and IB. Also, I wasn't putting in the monster hours. At its worst, I was working 75 hours a week.
Too much banking is bad, but that applies for all things..too much is always bad.
Wasn't there a story or two in 2007-2008 where a banker woke up and didn't remember anything up to that point in their life? Forgot the medical term for it and was looking for the article but couldn't find it.
Either way, crazy to think that even just a few years spent in a high stress environment can cause issues that affect you the rest of your life.
shit, is this real?
really scary.
New York, now.
You're right, they don't have it in Chicago. Head west of Pittsburg, and you're in Leinenkugel's country.
Remember feeling some of this during the ten week sprint that is the summer analyst program. Getting out at an hour where I could get more than 4 hours of sleep in felt like Christmas morning.
Saw an associate pass out in a meeting once during that summer.
This is a pretty scary article but I do see a lot of health issues in a lot of people due to this job (maybe not as extreme as the research suggests but still).
For example, people start looking a lot older, start getting grey hairs from the stress/lack of sleep (even an Analyst in his early 20's in my team found a grey hair the other day), mood swings (it's amazing how easily you get pissed off at meaningless stuff when you had very little sleep), people gaining weight (although my team has been pretty good at being very careful with diet and trying to get to the gym at least 2x per week), back problems, relationship issues (hard keeping gf/wife happy in this job) and general miserableness.
Currently, people are especially pissed off because clearly bonuses were terrible for last year but we are being asked to work even harder without more people as activity is picking up and also doing a lot of marketing/pitching as MD's are worried about their jobs obviously. So even tougher hours but not good pay (especially for Analysts where bonus isn't really a bonus but just delayed comp). I think a lot of people I speak with currently are going to exit this industry permanently within the next 3-6 months (it's surprising how little people seem to care about making less money but gaining a lot work-life balance and not having to deal with all the negative attention on this industry / banker hating (where you're embarrassed to tell people you work in 'banking') + structural changes leading to lower future payouts (potentially forever) + getting even less support for projects (even if live and large deals). Other opportunities are there but will take longer to get the right new job in the current market obviously.
Let's see how this shakes out but things are changing... (still on the fence myself)
Health (Originally Posted: 08/02/2010)
I went to the doctor's office for the first time in a while and found out I have high blood pressure. Obviously not great news and I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation. I've decreased my drinking since college, eat well and work out 2-3 times a week, so the only explanation I can think of is elevated stress and lack of sleep. Although I like what I'm doing, it makes me wonder if it's worth it.
It got me wondering how everyone else here monitors their health. How often are you going to see a doc or nurse? etc.
In my last physical check up, I got close to the high end of normal blood pressure range. Given age, weight and that I work out 2-3 times a week, found it surprising. Concentrated diet more on fish (e.g. cook fish at home, when I eat out, instead of getting steak all the time, try to get fish, etc.). I hate paying for chicken or salad.
Cut down on red meat. Focus on eating non-processed food. I'd switch to wine and cut back on the flavored mixed drinks (Yes you are guilty as charged. No way you work in NYC/London and don't have to get those drinks from time to time).
I think it runs in my family too so it's inevitable that it'll happen to me. Your best bet is to take medication to get it under control. Hypertension isn't called the "silent killer" for nothing. Take care man.
Thanks for the responses. I'm just curious to know how often the other guys on the site are checking these metrics. I've since talked to a few healthcare professionals who say that it is young men that are at the worst risk because they only go to the doc once shit is already bad.
I think there is an element of family history, but most people in the fam who have it flagged it around 40, not 25...which is why I think its the stress
Never thought about the mixed drinks, although I usually stick to pints. The doc said to cut red meat as well, but that is going to be a tough one. To be fair though, the steak joints in London are mostly shit compared to North America.
Eat less salt. Avoid processed foods b/c they are packed with sodium.
a doctor told me i had high blood pressure once (literally last year when i was 20). i'd say double check somewhere else first cause that doctor was fucking wrong lol
Health Damage and Long Hours (Originally Posted: 09/29/2016)
We all know that working IB hours is by no means good for you.
I'm interested to hear about your own personal experience.
The critical questions: 1: What damage is done to one's health? 2: Is this damage reversible?
For those who did a 2 year IB analyst stint and then left to something with more 'normal' hours (you actually get 8 hours of sleep on a regular basis), have you noticed any lasting physical or psychological damage?
For those who have been doing IB for years and intend to keep doing it, are you at all concerned about the long term effects? Have you noticed any thus far?
I'm curious as well
The lifestyle is not for everyone. There are a lot of freaks out there can run off of a few hours of shut eye a night, even if hungover and etc. Everyone has different levels of resiliency and stamina but I'd imagine if the stress from your job gets to you that much you'll figure it's not for you eventually anyway.
Interested as well
The overuse of caffeine really caught up to me and I had some symptoms of adrenal fatigue. It is nothing that you cannot overcome with rest and a few other changes in lifestyle for the better.
I also drink a lot more now, which is good and bad.
Food For Thought: 20 Ways Your Wall Street Job is Killing You (Originally Posted: 01/25/2011)
20 Ways Your Wall Street Job Is Killing You
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-wall-street-jobs-are-unhelthy-2010-5…
The most important thing to some of us at the moment might be OMGZ I only got an offer at BAML! or I need to get into Blackstone/Carlyle/KKR or darn how do I parlay BLX/KKR/Carlye into HBS or Stanford GSB given all the anti-finance sentiments of the new deans.
Just take a moment to reflect. What if tomorrow you were told you got cancer, and you only had 1 year to live. In a single moment, all the "accomplishments" accrued from 10+ years of striving will disappear.
Don't be content with a shitty life today because you think it'll bring you a "better" life tomorrow.
One less competitor...
haha owned.
Ironic, considering a big reason people want to work in PE is the easier lifestyle
Does not surprise me. But there are these problems in other fields. This is why Residency rules were changed for doctors. Big Law has their own set of problems. Hell, I know a small law firm where the partners got involved in an eating contest for shits and giggles about whether who could eat a 32oz Hebrew National Salami faster and in the alloted time frame. This shit goes on everywhere. It's part of the life we choose to lead.
And you are right... enjoy life for the sake of enjoying it, not the sake of getting ahead.
Risk of heart disease for bankers (Originally Posted: 04/05/2011)
A new study suggests that working 11 hours a day elevates your risk of developing heart disease by 67% relative to those who work an 8-hour day. 11 hours a day is a blessing compared to what bankers are working, and most people at hedge funds/pe firms will be working at least that, if not more. Even many traders will be working 11 hours+ (though not all).
This all becomes a bit scarier when you consider that heart disease is the #1 cause of death in america. Over 25% of Americans die from heart disease, and the rate of affliction increases dramatically with age. By the time you are in your 60s, nearly half of all deaths are attributable to heart disease. Furthermore, you can't live an unhealthy, stressful life and then try to reform at the 11th hour - by that point the damage will have been done and you will have an elevated future risk no matter what.
All I can say is yikes.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/221369.php
Well, that's the price you have to pay. More hardwork, more money.
Is this honestly a surprise to anyone?
Stress is only one contributing factor, but I agree the attitude in financial services does not help the health of employees. Its the whole fear of being viewed as a pussy, I get strange looks for ordering chicken at dinner and not steak, or going for a swim after work and not down to the pub. I can at least seek solace in the fact that I am not 20 pounds overweight.
Correlation does not imply causation.
If you read further in, doctors were using a model to predict the incidence of heart disease. This study found, specifically, that if you added hours worked as a factor the ability to predict heart disease improved.
I suppose there's always the chance that there are correlated lifestyle choices in workaholics (bad diet, lack of sleep, lack of exercise) are aren't being controlled for though. From the report on Reuters, actually, (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/05/uk-heart-work-idUSLNE73401O20…) it does seem like lifestyle choices weren't accounted for.
There is good reason to suspect that stress responses increase your risk of developing heart disease, though. Working more hours should generally correspond to higher stress levels, so I'm inclined to think this isn't entirely explained by correlated behaviors.
Sitting at a desk for three more hours a day is not going to give you heart disease. When work eats into sleep, diet, and exercise that is when you have a problem
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