After about five years in S+T at various banks and buyside shops, I am starting up a hedge fund based in NYC and focused on Asian markets. Most of the securities we trade are OTC equity and currency derivatives. We commenced trading with 10 million usd in partner capital and have a lot on our plate between raising investment assets and monitoring the markets during odd hours of the day.
Basically we are trying to think of decent ways to find junior traders for helping out with the day-to-day tasks. These would range from scanning/printing trade confirmations to going on lunch runs to doing analysis on FX trades using Bloomberg, Reuters, etc. In other words, typical junior trader stuff.
I don't have the capital and time to burn on hiring an HR department obviously, and I'd like the ability to cut loss fast if I hire someone who turns out to be unmotivated. Conversely, I'd like to be able to convert them into a full-time employee competitively if they turn out to add value. In an ideal world, I'd like to be able to offer summer internships and school year - internships for about 20-40hrs/week and pay for transportation/expenses/nominal salary.
Am I going to be able to get decent talent from posting on the career education websites? What kind of pay/hr is expected for this type of gig? I'm a bit out of touch now so don't want to post wages that are way too high or low. Are there solid candidates who would do this for zero salary (just covering transportation and food)?
Thanks
You've got to sell the "brand new start-up" feel to attract solid candidates who'd work for little or no money. If they join now and are successful, will they be in senior positions two years down the line?
Typically going for the top schools' careers service works well. Good shops seem to make their advertisements short - most candidates who are seriously applying know what's involved in both the interview process and the job.
Good luck and please keep us updated!
I will join as an unpaid intern if there is potential for FT employment with you and good training can be provided. I live in London and would move to NYC.
As mentioned by the above poster, when a start up is involved, the promise of growing with the firm and having seniority is key to attracting talent.
If you don't have the resources, just ask for referrals from your close contacts (for candidates that they have to personally vouch/recommend for). Post the position on LinkedIn or email to your close contracts about the position. Only interview candidates with strong referral from your network. That would narrow down to a few candidates.
Then give them a technical test (for the basic skill sets that you think they need) to be completed in a specific time, using your own set of criteria (perhaps online trading competition for 48 hours). That would cut down more candidates that fit into your criteria.
Then only invite those who made pass the technical part for interview at the office. Hope it helps.
You should offer some kind of pay. Money is the SOLE motivator in trading/for traders. Do you think people who took on thousands of student loan debt at good schools will take an unpaid job fetching lunch at a no name and an unproven place that might go under in less than a year? This is not 2009 where NFPs were in the negative thousands each month. There are good job opportunity out there now. If you do find a fresh college grad and offer him/her no pay, expect this person to not stick around long. I don't even think it is legal to not pay someone working full time hours and not an intern.
I'd be willing to do this part-time for free during the school year (I'll be taking classes for a Master's degree)
Post on NYU and Columbia's career services site if you're interested in someone part-time through the school year, and if you develop a decent relationship with the office, get a slot during OCR season for the traditional summer analyst role. For SA you'll obviously need to pay roughly comparable to Street, and I'd highly recommend offering an hourly rate during the school year if you're looking to get someone smart. You'd be surprised how many hard-working kids there are out there who are just looking for $15-20 an hour to help put themselves through school.
If you post it on here even, I'm sure you would find a number of candidates. I've been looking for internships, and would take something unpaid if it's good experience - and i know tons of other people who would too. then you could do Skype/phone interviews and rule out candidates, and pick a few for in-office. plenty of underclassmen will do unpaid
You'll find interns willing to work for nearly free (although you'll have to be flexible in their scheduling). For jr traders.... you're going to have a damn hard time finding talent that will work for extremely low pay in NYC or free considering nearly every legit prop shop pays a salary (and most are in Chicago, so a much lower cost of living).
Career placement @ local universities is your best shot--Columbia, NYU, Baruch, Fordham, etc. TBH I still can't imagine any of the better college grads wanting to work for that cheap full-time though.
Contact the career centers at NYU and columbia...i'd stay away from the lower tier schools like cuny baruch
typical pay is from 15-20/hour
I went to Baruch for my graduate studies. On what reasons, are you discriminating against my school? On technical knowledge, drive, and personality? And how do you even know whether they are qualified for the internship? Having suffered from non-target stigma and got a job in banking, I strongly despise people who pass biased judgement on non-target candidates.
+1.
All three... Obviously there are exceptions but the overall quality does not come close to Stern/Columbia.
OP, you might be able to get away with not paying an intern, but expect lower quality/younger interns. A junior/senior isn't going to be working unpaid if he's already got a couple internships on his resume. Comp will generally match quality of talent.
Why are you such a phaggot?
So with unpaid internships, you end up losing money, correct? And I would assume a decent amount if you're living in NY for a couple of months?
If it's for the summer, you'll probably end up spending close to 4.5k (2.6k for housing, rest for discretionary)
in addition to reaching out to the career services at the colleges, I would recommend contacting the professional clubs with members who would be the most interested.
I know at Stern, a few of the clubs have brought in start-ups with a pretty good reception.
patrick please find new moderators
honestly, in order to get some good students, you'd better pay on par with the street (15-25/hr). i did an intern at a startup investment firm and got paid bullshit (9/hr). I had very low motivation and eventually quit to join bigger places. it was 2 years ago and i heard that place is shutting down.
This must be a joke - you are doing startup with 10 mm usd and you are posting this kind of trick on wso in hope to attract talent that are willing to do some work for free - without investments and risk taking there's no return
Thanks for the replies everyone. I will get to answering all PMs soon. Looks like $15-20/hr is a solid price point and have gotten some decent leads to work on for now.
Btw, I'm happy to take questions on here on my views on prop trading/ bb prop desks/trading Asia in general. Have gotten a lot of PMs about that and would rather do it in a thread.
Thanks for opening up the floor for questions. I am starting as a S&T analyst in Asia this summer, and your career path is exactly what I am looking for.
1) What kind of products did you trade while working in S&T / buyside shops in Asia?
2) Which desks/products in Asia would you recommend for joining a hedge fund, especially when most BB prop desks are getting spun off? Also, which location would you recommend? (HK or SG?)
3) Is there a particular reason for starting up your hedge fund in NYC instead of HK or SG?
4) What would be the best way to prepare myself for joining an Asia-focused hedge fund while working as an S&T analyst in Asia?
5) Can you tell us more about your background and the steps you have taken to launch your own fund?
Thanks again!
-removed-
Dolorem dignissimos ut deleniti. Accusamus ipsa aut consectetur nesciunt cupiditate. Suscipit excepturi non explicabo eveniet. Velit voluptates quas quo voluptates optio quibusdam. Nesciunt corrupti numquam laboriosam est.
Autem in voluptatem temporibus ea. Unde accusantium aut ratione. Nostrum nesciunt in et ad quod ad corporis. Consequatur expedita eum ex ipsum rem sit quis saepe. Ut suscipit voluptas ut qui sit aperiam qui reiciendis. Aperiam nihil ut maiores sapiente.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Earum voluptates ea et et minus facilis. Cumque ad expedita ea qui nulla magnam. Quia quaerat sed facilis impedit et quis quo. Incidunt itaque laboriosam dolor voluptas molestiae et fuga qui.
Optio dicta cupiditate sit amet ipsum nisi enim facere. Explicabo quaerat odio ea quis illo et qui quaerat. Aut provident et impedit voluptatum. Illum praesentium alias amet ducimus sint non. Dolor eos consequatur mollitia nihil aliquid vel.
Modi beatae voluptas quisquam cupiditate ad animi ratione. Debitis aliquid repudiandae officia vitae molestias. Veritatis et est rem odio. Distinctio nulla laboriosam sint et aut debitis. Accusamus excepturi impedit veniam error quisquam voluptas beatae.
Minima cum neque voluptatem corporis maiores et libero adipisci. Voluptatem ex quos aut aut eaque. Praesentium corporis saepe aut fugit voluptatum molestias. Officia ut cum dignissimos aut magni.