Is her past salvageable for moving into a top degree program?

How hard is it to get into a top economics doctoral program? Okay, so here is my story. In short, I am going to be attending Columbia Business School in 2011 (deferred admission--don't ask me how I got it). I am also getting married to a great girl. The thing is, she partied all through college, and got her degree at a no-name school in the mid-west in economics with a paltry 2.7 GPA, and it took her over 7 years to complete because of failing classes and skipping semesters.

She criticizes herself enough, and accepts the fact she screwed up. She is working now, and realizes how much of mistake she made in the past. What I want to know is--is it possible for her to redeem herself at this point? She is very interested in working hard to do well on the GRE and pursue a PhD in Economics. I wonder, how high for the stars can she shoot? Does she have any chance at all with strong GRE and good recommendations (which, because of her turn around late in her B.A. degree, has won over a few professors)?

Is getting into a top econ PhD program as hard, or even harder than a top MBA? She would want to pursue it while living in NYC.

 

If she wants to do it while living in NYC that means the universe comes down to maybe half a dozen schools. So you should be able to gather information on entrance requirements, avererage GRE, etc and even talk to the admissions since its such a limited and managable number of schools.

 

Yeah... PhD programs care much much more about grades etc than MBA programs. Definitely no chance of anything anyone would consider "top." Sorry.

There are other forums for econ PhD applicants and you can find stats flying around.

 

No. I'm sure there's a program out there somewhere that would take her, but no top program would take her. I'm good friends with two PHD Ec candidates. Both where Phi Beta Kappa & already had done significant work in Economics. PHD's work for professors doing research, it's not like the admit people for shits and grins. No offense to your wife, but if she was pulling a 2.7 I doubt she'll be able to forge ahead maturely doing research much less get published. Does she have a thesis topic in mind? Has she already done independent research? Also if it took her 7 years to get an ec degree it's going to take her 14 to get a PHD. She should just be happy that she married a guy who worked hard in school and will take care of her. Sorry for the dickheadish response but it really irks me when people control themselves and work hard in undergrad and the slackers eventually come crying the blues in their mid twenties looking for a hand out.

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It's hard... but salvageable... but it's going to be balls hard to redeem herself. Ace GREs... hardcore peacecorp, nonprofit stuff at the very least. She'll need to put a lot of work into something... start her own business, working for a small econ consulting firm, applying to government BLS jobs... she'll have to take tons of steps to recover...

but then again she has you her ace in the hole to support her and the baby...

oh, she didn't tell you about the baby yet? yep, it's yours.

partied her whole time too? she sounds hot...

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haha, wtf, People can change for the better. I mean if you don't mind the fact that she's always going to have a 2nd tier career, than its fine. It could probably work in your favor in terms of having more "power" in a relationship. Dude you should have never said she's your wife cause WSO don't go easy on slackers, even repenting ones.

 

Okay... I made a mistake posting here. I get it--its not gonna happen; she knows this. I just didn't know and wanted to ask. I mentioned Columbia because I wanted to explain why she wanted to do a program in NYC. As for the immature douche responses, be glad you didn't say this to me in person. As far as the "power" goes, if people on this forum thinks its good to have more power in the relationship are no where near ready for marriage.

 

Whenever I hear someone who hasn't worked for a long time talk about how they want to get a PhD I think to myself "oh, there is someone who doesn't want to be in the working world". Honestly, if she really wants to contriubute to the "science" of economics she should get a job a understand how the real world works.

7 years because she partied all through school? I can understand 5 years, but 7. Holy crap. Are you really comfortable marrying the village bicycle ?

 

Yeah, some of the responses were ridiculous. It's because a lot of people on WSO seem to have slaved away in UG and have something against "party goers".

Anyways, with a 2.7, she can still make it into a half-way decent MBA program after a few years. PhD is going to be a tough one and expensive. Seriously tell her to work for a few years and just go for an MBA. I know 2 people in decent Econ PhD programs. The programs are tough and hard to get into even with really high GPA's. PhD programs are for academia, unless she has a real "hard-on" for it, I would recommend against. Seriously MBA admissions have much lower bar in terms of academia performance especially out of the top 25 programs.

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hug It Out
 

What if her goal was to get a good job in NYC--not banking at goldman or anything, but like a solid back office, operations job in the city--not even BB or anything. What programs would give her a shot at something like that? How is the Baruch MBA? She plans on taking addition UG coursework to up her GPA to above a 3.0. I know she is smart enough to hit at least a 650 on the GMAT with study and hard work. If I end up getting a FO position at a top bank, would working there while she is getting MBA help her have a connection for BO recruiting?

Please spare me comments that are demeaning to my future wife. She knows she screwed up and at least she has a good enough head on her shoulders to turn herself around. I am just trying to figure out what options she has at this point to making herself more competitive for a good job. At least she has ambition to work and better herself now, and not just be my arm candy. If you choose your wife based off of her academic accomplishments and professional goals, look forward to a miserable marriage. What matters is if the girl is a good person and you are compatible and supportive to each other. She will be working while I am in school and supporting me. She understands the sacrifices of my goal of working in banking and the hours involved. She's uprooting herself from her midwestern home and family and friends to travel with me to NYC. And shes gorgeous. She's also intelligent--just a late bloomer in terms of professional aspiration.

 

1) I am confused, is it killer bees wife or the OP

2) Listen, I am all for having a good time in school, but 7 years?! I mean common. I guess this person didn't respect their parents at all considering they made them pay out the ass for college tuition while they got drunk all the time. Lets get real. 7 years is horrible and I am a pretty forgiving person. There comes a time when you need to get the job done and put the bottle down.

3) Yes, my comment was harsh, I apologize, but common. You milk college for 7 years, get a 2.7 and no all of a sudden have dreams of being a PhD? Sounds immature to me.

IFFFFF she is really serious, tell her to take math classes at a community college to built up her math skills. Then have her get into a masters program in finance/econ/math/ whatever. This will allow her to improve her GPA, increase her skills, add credibility to her PhD application, give her a solid network with academic people and give her a taste of what a PhD program can be like without you sinking money into a fair weather dream. Dude, love is great, but you need to be friggin realistic.

I literally cannot believe anyone could party in college for 7 years. I mean there gets to be a point where even freshmen start thinking you are a loser. This is exactly why the United States is going down the tube. SEVEN years for an UG degree as a mediocre institution. Common!

 

She didn't even mention PhD to me, it was something I actually brought up. She was more thinking along the lines of an MS. So that hostility of how rediculous the question is should be directed towards me. She is more pessemistic of her possibilities than I am.

It seems to me, that her best path at this point is :

Math coursework - ace the shit out of it-->rock the GRE--> 2nd/3rd Tier MS in Econ/Accounting/Finance or MBA w/ high GPA--> middle of the road career start w/ hard work to advance through the ranks.

Am I missing something?

 

i think an MBA would be much better in terms of job prospects than an MS in econ...maybe a CPA would be nice, but i dont think getting in the doors of the big 4 is an option at this point

regarding GRE, since i recently took the gmat and considered taking the GRE i think far more places accept the GMAT than the GRE and at bschools the GRE still has the stigma of being an easier test. (GRE has a much nicer curve, i.e. more than 20 people a year get an 800.)

so i assume the OP has 2 accounts...also to the columbia thing i think that part of the issue is your wife/fiance is going to feel like she's not intelligent (relatively) or something along those lines...i think baruch's MBA is solid if you want to get into the BO or some other not as competitive job.

 
Best Response

Acceptance into an econ PhD program is incredibly hard. There is a 0% chance that any program worth attending will accept her. There is a very slim chance that even a crappy program will take her.

To give you some perspective – My wife had a 3.9 GPA (double major history and econ) from a private school and a 700 GMAT (Over 80 quant) and her graduate advisor basically told her the applications would be a waste of time.

If she is dead set on a continued study she look into other social sciences – maybe a masters/PhD in Public Policy or Admin or sociology.

Banker88 & Johnny Cage should be banned. You guys think you are being funny but you have revealed something about yourself – heterosexual men would NEVER break up with woman because of her academic record. That thought would never enter my mind in a million years. Only women (or men who like dick) screen partners for earnings potential.

 

Banker88 & Johnny Cage should be banned. You guys think you are being funny but you have revealed something about yourself – heterosexual men would NEVER break up with woman because of her academic record. That thought would never enter my mind in a million years. Only women (or men who like dick) screen partners for earnings potential.

i wish i had a silver banana left...though earning potential and intelligence are different things. (i.e.i dont think a moderate screen for intelligence is unreasonable...but then again just cause she took 7 years doesnt make her stupid it makes her not-committed or something like that)

 
breakinginnew:
Banker88 & Johnny Cage should be banned. You guys think you are being funny but you have revealed something about yourself – heterosexual men would NEVER break up with woman because of her academic record. That thought would never enter my mind in a million years. Only women (or men who like dick) screen partners for earnings potential.

OK YA BRO.

brb Im'a go to the nearest dive bar, look for the dumbest drunk girl and get down on one knee. The dumber the better. GOD I hope she didn't finish high school (crossing fingers)!

Seriously though, why would you say it is gay to not want to marry (you know spend your life with) a dumb girl who got trained for 7 years?

@the OP you're allegedly going to Columbia BS, I am sure you will meet way hotter, smarter, more interesting, and less fucked up girls. Don't be her superman!

 

I agree with everybody here, how can you be marrying a girl like this.

Everybody knows the hottest girls don't go near college...

By age 15 the hottest girls are already so fucked up in the head by society, 45 year old police officers hitting on them and drugs that they don't finish high school.

If you're considering marrying a girl that made it past sophomore year...then I hate to break it to you buddy, but you're short changing yourself. Way hotter girls are available.

 

I imagine most PHD candidates could pull a well over a 2.7 in their sleep from a no name school so I'm gonna go with no unless she wants to spend years of her life getting it back on track with a a masters in whatever somewhere, maybe some meaningful work experience/volunteer work, and a whole bunch of other crap and even then I wouldn't give her good odds.

 

"some meaningful work experience/volunteer work, and a whole bunch of other crap "

That stuff only matters for MBA programs. Econ PhD is a purely academic program - they want grey matter and academic performance.

 

@JohnnyCage

You ignored the second half of my post and just quoted a quote. I answered your question there. A) Earnings potential doesn't equate to intelligence B) You can be smart and not do well in college.

Actually I know someone who did really poorly in college...failed out of a few...but is very smart and now he's worth a few hundred mil

 

Yeah, and Einstein got bad grades in school, Bill Gates dropped out of college, and Michael Jordan didn't make his high school basketball team. Don't bank on being an exception to the rule like them.

 

Okay, lets forget the PhD thing. I get it. To the people who offered advice thanks. I did have 2 accounts but I stopped using one of them. To those who criticize my personal life decision to marry a particular person, I won't even give a response because its downright silly to make such a harsh criticism off of such a small cross section of information.

Bottom line is I don't care about her earning potential, and of the many, many girls I have been with in my life, I was never more happy than I am now. I am someone who wanted nothing to do with marriage 2 years ago. Meeting the right person changes you. And when she is right for you, you don't give a crap about her past mistakes or her earning potential. I feel like I lost my anonimity at this point by mentioning my future MBA program, so unfortunately I think I have to just stop posting at this point.

Thank you to BuySide, Breakinginnew, and ari_gold. I give you my last 3 silver bananas.

Maybe I'll start a 3rd account and not mention anything about myself.

 

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