NYU Business School Professor - Tell Us How You Really Feel
In case you haven't seen this yet, read below....
Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 7:15:11 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Brand Strategy Feedback
Prof. Galloway,
I would like to discuss a matter with you that bothered me. Yesterday evening I entered your 6pm Brand Strategy class approximately 1 hour late. As I entered the room, you quickly dismissed me, saying that I
would need to leave and come back to the next class. After speaking with several students who are taking your class, they explained that you have a policy stating that students who arrive more than 15 minutes late will not be admitted to class.
As of yesterday evening, I was interested in three different Monday night classes that all occurred simultaneously. In order to decide which class to select, my plan for the evening was to sample all three
and see which one I like most. Since I had never taken your class, I was unaware of your class policy. I was disappointed that you dismissed me from class considering (1) there is no way I could have been aware of your policy and (2) considering that it was the first day of evening classes and I arrived 1 hour late (not a few minutes), it was more probable that my tardiness was due to my desire to sample different classes rather than sheer complacency.
I have already registered for another class but I just wanted to be open and provide my opinion on the matter.
Regards,
xxxx
—
xxxx
MBA 2010 Candidate
NYU Stern School of Business
xxxx.nyu.edu
xxx-xxx-xxxx
The Reply:
—— Forwarded Message ——-
From: scott@stern.nyu.edu
To: "xxxx"
Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2010 9:34:02 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Brand Strategy Feedback
xxxx:
Thanks for the feedback. I, too, would like to offer some feedback.
Just so I've got this straight...you started in one class, left 15-20 minutes into it (stood up, walked out mid-lecture), went to another class (walked in 20 minutes late), left that class (again, presumably,
in the middle of the lecture), and then came to my class. At that point (walking in an hour late) I asked you to come to the next class which "bothered" you.
Correct?
You state that, having not taken my class, it would be impossible to know our policy of not allowing people to walk in an hour late. Most risk analysis offers that in the face of substantial uncertainty, you opt for the more conservative path or hedge your bet (e.g., do not show up an hour late until you know the professor has an explicit policy for tolerating disrespectful behavior, check with the TA before class, etc.). I hope the lottery winner that is your recently crowned Monday evening Professor is teaching Judgement and Decision Making or
Critical Thinking.
In addition, your logic effectively means you cannot be held accountable for any code of conduct before taking a class. For the record, we also have no stated policy against bursting into show tunes in the middle of class, urinating on desks or taking that revolutionary hair removal system for a spin. However, xxxx, there is a baseline level of decorum (i.e., manners) that we expect of grown men and women who the admissions department have deemed tomorrow's business leaders.
xxxx, let me be more serious for a moment. I do not know you, will not know you and have no real affinity or animosity for you. You are an anonymous student who is now regretting the send button on his laptop.
It's with this context I hope you register pause...REAL pause xxxx and take to heart what I am about to tell you:
xxxx, get your shit together.
Getting a good job, working long hours, keeping your skills relevant, navigating the politics of an organization, finding a live/work balance...these are all really hard, xxxx. In contrast, respecting institutions, having manners, demonstrating a level of humility...these are all (relatively) easy. Get the easy stuff right
xxxx. In and of themselves they will not make you successful. However, not possessing them will hold you back and you will not achieve your potential which, by virtue of you being admitted to Stern, you must
have in spades. It's not too late xxxx...
Again, thanks for the feedback.
Professor Galloway







Owned.
Owned.
--------------------------------------------------------
"I do not think there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcom
Yeah, I saw this earlier
Yeah, I saw this earlier today. Hilarious. Classic "Fuck you" to the student.
damn. The best thing I have
damn. The best thing I have read all day
In other words, Grow Up! I
In other words, Grow Up!
I love the part of:
"xxxx, get your shit together."
People a forget about this all the time...
wow
wow
Am I the only one that thinks
Am I the only one that thinks the prof's response was uncalled for? Prof sounds like he has a massive chip on his shoulder if he perceives something like that as a slight.
The student mentioned in his/her email that it was the first day of class. I'm not sure whether NYU has a shopping period policy for classes, but you'd think the professor would understand if a student walked in that late. It would probably have been less disruptive to just let the student sit down than for the prof to stop talking, tell the student to leave, and then resume the lecture.
I wonder what the professor had done if he had been first on the student's shopping list, and the student walked out 15 minutes into the lecture.
Disclaimer: I'm not the aforementioned student, and definitely not at NYU (thank goodness)
Honestly don't believe a prof
Honestly don't believe a prof wrote this for a couple of reasons.
Most professor's have a chip
Most professor's have a chip on their shoulder... this kid is definitely a fucking idiot.
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chewingum wrote: Am I the
Am I the only one that thinks the prof's response was uncalled for? Prof sounds like he has a massive chip on his shoulder if he perceives something like that as a slight.
The student mentioned in his/her email that it was the first day of class. I'm not sure whether NYU has a shopping period policy for classes, but you'd think the professor would understand if a student walked in that late. It would probably have been less disruptive to just let the student sit down than for the prof to stop talking, tell the student to leave, and then resume the lecture.
I wonder what the professor had done if he had been first on the student's shopping list, and the student walked out 15 minutes into the lecture.
Disclaimer: I'm not the aforementioned student, and definitely not at NYU (thank goodness)
I honestly think that the prof's response, while perhaps extreme, is justified and a much needed reality check for the student.
The student came across as a little shithead in his e-mail by providing his "opinion on the matter" and justifying his 1 hour tardiness. Frankly, as a first year student on your first day of class, you are in no position to question your professors. Furthermore, you don't show up an hour late to a class, period. If I were a professor and a kid did that in my class, I'd rip him apart then in there in front of his classmates.
Now, if the student had written a tactful and apologetic email regarding his tardiness, that's an entirely different matter.
You realize how much the
You realize how much the student is paying to get his MBA (or how much debt he's taking on)? Sampling a couple classes in the first few days is fine and will save him from wasting thousands of dollars on something that isn't worth his time. Maybe the email wasn't the brightest move on his part, but the professor clearly thinks way too highly of himself and is WAY out of line. A simple "that is my policy, tough shit" would have been a lot better than the horse shit the professor wrote back.
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Hey what fucking asshole
Hey what fucking asshole threw banana shit at me?
was it chewingum or theking?
either way, paying a 100k for an education doesn't give you carte blanche to act like a little shithead
Both are fuckups.
Both are fuckups.
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gonna have to keep posting to
gonna have to keep posting to compensate for the banana shit being thrown at me for speaking the truth
this has to got to be that NYU doofus who is throwing banana shit at me for calling him out
I think it would be
I think it would be interesting if we could tell who throws shit at who.
I like the students idea of sampling a class, but how effective is it to see the 1st 1/3rd of one class, the 2/3rd of another and the final 1/3rd of the last class. That is like reading the beginning of one book, middle of another and end of a third and then trying to judge each fairly.
Professor was a little pompous. I mean if I was teaching and someone came in 1 hour late, but entered quietly and professionally, I would ask them after class why there were late. The whole argument of not allowing people to come in so late is that it interrupts the professor and hurts the classes overall learning experience. Well I am sure stopping what you are doing to abruptly tell a student to leave cause way more commotion than just letting them sit down and talking to them afterward.
Both people acted wrongly, but the professor was a little high and mighty.
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That was a great response
That was a great response letter...Prof 1 Idiot 0...Nice!
agree
agree
skyblue wrote: agree agree
agree
agree with the prof or the student?
NYU kid obviously has a lot
NYU kid obviously has a lot of bananas to throw around
AnthonyD1982 wrote: I think
I think it would be interesting if we could tell who throws shit at who.
I like the students idea of sampling a class, but how effective is it to see the 1st 1/3rd of one class, the 2/3rd of another and the final 1/3rd of the last class. That is like reading the beginning of one book, middle of another and end of a third and then trying to judge each fairly.
Professor was a little pompous. I mean if I was teaching and someone came in 1 hour late, but entered quietly and professionally, I would ask them after class why there were late. The whole argument of not allowing people to come in so late is that it interrupts the professor and hurts the classes overall learning experience. Well I am sure stopping what you are doing to abruptly tell a student to leave cause way more commotion than just letting them sit down and talking to them afterward.
Both people acted wrongly, but the professor was a little high and mighty.
I agree here, although, it was an entertaining read.
would be great if we knew the
would be great if we knew the professor's real name so we can dig up some reviews on RateMyProfessor.com
but yeah, the prof totally pwn3d that noob
bertcamel - it's in OP (and
bertcamel - it's in OP (and on Dealbreaker) - Scott Galloway.
http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/faculty/facultyindex.cgi?id=376
You would think a Cali guy
You would think a Cali guy would be a little more laid back, ya know.
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DaCarez wrote: bertcamel -
bertcamel - it's in OP (and on Dealbreaker) - Scott Galloway.
http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/faculty/facultyindex.cgi?id=376
call me ignorant
http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/facul
http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/faculty/facultyindex.cgi?id=376
Dam, Dam, Dam. DaCarez, you beat me to it. Congrats.
nyu kids are mostly immature
nyu kids are mostly immature and depressed
i think there are like 4-5 suicides there per year
which i don't get , you'd think you'd be happy to live in greenwich village- I mean come on, Off the Wagon, le Poisson Rouge, it has great nightlife
there's even a senor frogs!
Can't believe this happened
Can't believe this happened at a graduate school level, I remember similar dramas back in high school, except the instructors weren't nearly as hilarious and the student didn't use nearly as many complete sentences..
While it pains me to side
While it pains me to side with a liberal academic, I have to say I love the way he roasted this entitled shitheel. This kid was born for middle management.
I agree with m2: I'm not
I agree with m2: I'm not convinced that reply came from a professor.
Understanding that the student's email lacked appropriate humility, the response came back over the top when it wasn't necessary. If there's a communications class at Stern, I would expect that professor stresses that there's no place in a professional environment for sarcasm and hyperbole, even if provoked.
And while being a student is a privilege and not a right, that person is paying a lot of money to gain an education and should be able to, politely and quietly, enter a class late. Many circumstances could cause a student to be late, particularly one in an evening MBA program: work, traffic, emergency, etc. In fact, when recruiting kicks up for the full-time students, interviews will get in the way of class schedules.
"and definitely not at NYU
"and definitely not at NYU (thank goodness)"
Ha. Nice.
I'll back the Prof. Guy
I'll back the Prof. Guy should get his shit together.
@the king - I agree with the
@the king - I agree with the point you raise. The student is the customer in this situation. I would equate the professor's throwing the student out of the class to a car salesman yelling at you for asking to test drive a couple of cars.
@AnthonyD - Using my example from above, taking a car for a pre-purchase spin isn't as effective as driving the car for a few weeks before making a decision. Similarly, sampling 1/3 of a class may not be the best way to measure the course, it would be infeasible for the student to sit in on three classes for a whole period each. Thus, I can understand his methodology for sampling all of the classes on the first day.
With that said, the student's e-mail is absolutely inappropraite and lacks any sense of respect for the hierarchical structure that runs the the business world, or academia in this instance. A more apologetic tone would have been appropriate. Perhaps the prof would've been more reasonable in his response if the kid wasn't such a prick while explaining his tardiness. The prof's response is over the top, but you can't fault him for firing back, the student forfeited any right to a respectful response by showing no regard for the pecking order.
Classic* Galloway put him in
Classic* Galloway put him in his place.
Personally I like to stick to
Personally I like to stick to the "don't sink to his/her level" motto. While the student didn't use proper judgment in sending the original e-mail, neither did the professor in firing back. If I were the professor (and if all of this is true) I would be embarrassed at that e-mail. The professor sounds like an extremely arrogant person (the student doesn't come off well either).
I took Galloway's marketing
I took Galloway's marketing class at Stern. Couple of things. Galloway was hired because of his real world success in branding and marketing as opposed to some PhD who just read everything there was to read and was therefore an 'expert'. So he brings a little more salt to the classroom. In the class I took, he gave a full 30% of the grade to participation. Which is as it should be. You can have the best ideas in the room but unless you have the moxie to speak up, so what. He's also not afraid to call you out on your ideas, he wants you to be able to think on your feet.
There are way too many professors at Stern that take a patronizing, hand-holding approach to education which might be fine if you are studying to be a floral arranger. You could literally put your hand up in these classes and say whatever came into your head and watch the professor work whatever you say into some plausible bullshit that you get a nice pat on the back for. These are the 'there are no wrong answers just opinions' practitioners who do MBAs a huge disservice by implying the business world is some peter pan nirvana full of understanding and non-judging wonderful sweet people. Like nobody gets shit-canned for fucking up. Galloway is the antidote to all that and deserves credit for keeping a high standard when he could easily just phone it in like so many others. Just to give you an idea of how ridiculous some of the hand-holding can get, i was in a strategy class talking about Walmart's inventory system and some guy puts up his hand and just says 'Bill Cosby', completely out of the blue. That was it, that was all he said. The instructor without missing a beat goes into some spiel about how Cosby was a spokesperson for Kodak and then spun it back to Walmart's own marketing strategy. Never asked 'wtf?' nothing, just smiled and went on.
The real mistake the student made was that he should have seen Galloway as the real deal that he is, and signed up for his class. Instead he chose to have his widdle feelings hurt and ran to find another, kinder professor. Hardly CEO material.
DaCarez wrote: bertcamel -
bertcamel - it's in OP (and on Dealbreaker) - Scott Galloway.
http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/faculty/facultyindex.cgi?id=376
forgive my ignorance. what does a "clinical associate professor" mean?
All you guys siding with the
All you guys siding with the prof. are being a bunch of little shits. You seem to be forgetting that the MBA is a pretend degree where you don't actually learn anything, you just get to write it on your resume so that it can take you closer to being a bigger douche. For fuck's sake, this guy teaches a class called "Branding." Give me a break. The kid was right to remind him that he's teaching at a business school. If the guy taught say, a class in med school, maybe you should throw him a little respect.
what an idiot....
what an idiot....
The professor is a petty
The professor is a petty douche.
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This whole thing could have
This whole thing could have been resolved if the student just sent an email BEFORE the first class to each of the three professors. If they objected to the idea of sampling the classes and walking into or leaving the class mid-lecture, then concessions could have been made (i.e. go to that class first, sample the coursepack outside of class, etc.) OR the student could have just not registered for that professor's class.
But that would be too easy.
love269 wrote: All you guys
All you guys siding with the prof. are being a bunch of little shits. You seem to be forgetting that the MBA is a pretend degree where you don't actually learn anything, you just get to write it on your resume so that it can take you closer to being a bigger douche. For fuck's sake, this guy teaches a class called "Branding." Give me a break. The kid was right to remind him that he's teaching at a business school. If the guy taught say, a class in med school, maybe you should throw him a little respect.
This literally made me crack up out loud. Really funny stuff.
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darwins monkey wrote: @the
@the king - I agree with the point you raise. The student is the customer in this situation. I would equate the professor's throwing the student out of the class to a car salesman yelling at you for asking to test drive a couple of cars.
@AnthonyD - Using my example from above, taking a car for a pre-purchase spin isn't as effective as driving the car for a few weeks before making a decision. Similarly, sampling 1/3 of a class may not be the best way to measure the course, it would be infeasible for the student to sit in on three classes for a whole period each. Thus, I can understand his methodology for sampling all of the classes on the first day.
With that said, the student's e-mail is absolutely inappropraite and lacks any sense of respect for the hierarchical structure that runs the the business world, or academia in this instance. A more apologetic tone would have been appropriate. Perhaps the prof would've been more reasonable in his response if the kid wasn't such a prick while explaining his tardiness. The prof's response is over the top, but you can't fault him for firing back, the student forfeited any right to a respectful response by showing no regard for the pecking order.
While I laughed hardest at the other comment, I think I agree with this one the most.
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love269 wrote: All you guys
All you guys siding with the prof. are being a bunch of little shits. You seem to be forgetting that the MBA is a pretend degree where you don't actually learn anything, you just get to write it on your resume so that it can take you closer to being a bigger douche. For fuck's sake, this guy teaches a class called "Branding." Give me a break. The kid was right to remind him that he's teaching at a business school. If the guy taught say, a class in med school, maybe you should throw him a little respect.
Says the kid without a job and without a degree, pretend or otherwise.
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Affirmative_Action_Walrus
either way, paying a 100k for an education doesn't give you carte blanche to act like a little shithead
That's true, but if your degree is a profit-center for the school, they should be treating you with the respect a paying customer deserves, too. That includes professors not dropping four letter words in your direction.
I think the student gets it that she can't whine about showing up late to class. The prof needs to understand that XXXX is paying his salary. The way it works in the real world is that if you tell off a paying customer worth a lot of money, you get canned. Fortunately for this professor, he probably has tenure.
Rule #1: Treat everyone with respect, and do your best to respect the system. (FAIL for the MBA student for posting the response from the prof.)
Rule #2: Treat the paying customer with the utmost respect. This includes graduate students paying for their own degrees and helping to fund YOUR RESEARCH. (FAIL for the prof).
Work hard, play hard.
Did any of you guys go to
Did any of you guys go to college? People come late to class all the time. They're all adults, and if someone wants to come late to class and miss out, that should be his problem. This isn't some 15-person discussion-based seminar where his coming late breaks the flow; it was likely a 50+ person lecture room.
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Quote: Says the kid without a
Says the kid without a job and without a degree, pretend or otherwise.
I have a degree from any Ivy league and am going to be a trader at a BB after a successful internship there.
Good luck "networking" and sucking out of other people's asses for the rest of your life, trying to be PC and "respecting hierarchy." There will always be guys like me who are successful in your industry and don't take all this bullshit seriously, which should really piss you off.
love269 wrote: Quote: Says
Says the kid without a job and without a degree, pretend or otherwise.
I have a degree from an Ivy league and am going to be a trader at a BB after a successful internship there.
Good luck "networking" and sucking out of other people's asses for the rest of your life, trying to be PC and "respecting hierarchy." There will always be guys like me who are successful in your industry and don't take all this bullshit seriously, which should really piss you off.
Dude, just try to be careful. You might wind up working for someone like me this summer. Traders don't always tolerate that kind of attitude from TAs, especially summer interns. The star next to Marcus's name indicates that he's pretty established in industry, too, so who knows, you may be working for him.
I'm not saying this to be mean to you; I'm saying it to try and help you do better this summer. If someone else is paying for your education or your time, you have absolutely no right to talk back, use four letter words, complain, or make "suggestions" in anything but an apologetic tone of voice (assuming you can't easily earn significantly more elsewhere). Once you can earn a lot more money somewhere else and you're hard to replace, or you become a paying customer, that's when you start to get clout. You have to wait until then. Some of us at least sympathize with the MBA student because she is established in industry and she is a paying customer, so she will get a bigger break from some of these people than you'll get.
Edit: The negative vote wasn't from me. I'm sure you must feel very frustrated right now (I've been there- I lost a summer job at 15 because of a similar attitude); the best thing you can do is grab a few drinks, think things over a bit, and decide what kind of reputation you want to build during your summer internship.
Work hard, play hard.
Some people on this site take
Some people on this site take things way too seriously. We all put our pants on one leg at a time. No need to get on a high horse to tell someone off on some moral high ground-basis over a discussion on the internet.
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Has anyone bothered to think
Has anyone bothered to think what this means going forward? This seriously compromises his ability as a professor. How can any student email Galloway in the future with any legitimate concerns knowing that email may be leaked by him and end up all over the internet?
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Do we know anything about the
Do we know anything about the student? I would assume it was the student who leaked this.
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I believe the Deadspin post
I believe the Deadspin post on this implies it was Galloway who sent it to his TA to send to the class.
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