Sales side of S&T
Can anybody shed some light on sales for me, please?
I know they are on the phone most of the day talking to other salespeople at different institutions. I heard most sales have been replaced by good looking females. Is this true? Also, how is the compensation?
Sales Teams in Investment Banking
A salesman takes their orders from the client and communicates them to the firm's trader.
Think of the salesman as a broker of sorts with an emphasis on relationships. The salesman will take their orders from the client and communicate them to the firm's trader.
The salesman comes back to the client and pitch’s them ideas. These ideas tie in products that the firm is looking to sell.
They also manage the relationship with the client which can involve restaurants, events, bars and the like.
Behind the scenes, they gather firm resources like research and get them to the client as needed or when appropriate to add value.
Junior people deal with established accounts and senior people manage accounts while seeking new ones to generate revenue for the firm.
from certified user @Bondarb"
In my opinion a good salesman is somebody who has the respect of the trading desk so they give him good prices, knows how to get you what you need in terms of the firm's research staff (ie I call looking to talk to an analyst and he is on the phone with me in 5 minutes no matter what), and is a person who is fun to hang out with so that you actually want to use the comps the firm offers (tickets, dinner, etc.).
Recommended Reading
I heard sales gets paid the least out of all the front office ibanking positions (such as trading, banking, and research). Additionally from what I've seen at the place I'm interning at, the sales guys generally are personable and have a working knowledge of the stocks they're peddling, and when the institutional investors want to get a more in depth knowledge of a company or industry, the research analysts take over.
That being said, the hours are in line with traders obviously, you get in 1-2 hours before market open and you're out about an hour after market close (or a little earlier/later).
This has been discussed ad nauseam (search function) and on average, sales guys might just make the most out of anyone at the bank.
How hard / competitive is it to break into sales? Is it possible to get in through networking?
why would sales be talking to other sales?
are we talking about real forest? Or an imaginary mime forest in which the mime acts out the role of having a tree fall on him?
Okay clearly you need some help here.
First lets define which section of S&T. Sales in equities? or sales for fixed income?
If it is sales for fixed income then you should PM me because I spent 3 years doing it. I can give you a detailed run down of what happens on a day to day basis.
Also sales guys can make WAY MORE than anyone else at the firm, that is if its fixed income.
If you work at a mid tier broker dealer (aka not goldman sachs were you are paid base+ bonus) then you are commission only.
Whats the commission if you have 10 mm (million) of a bond and you sell it with 1 point in it?
Now take that entire commission and subtract 55% from it. The rest is yours before tax.
that one trade there will net you more than quite a few people make in a year.
Sales? in S&T (Originally Posted: 05/17/2012)
Id like to preface this with the fact that I do not work at an i-bank, like to think i have a pretty good understanding of the different departments, but have a quick question:
I am interested in a role supporting a portfoilo manager's trading activity. The roles responsibilities are to evaluate and advise the PM on the trading risks of different investment managers (the banks clients) as well as meet with potential clients (asset managers, pension funds, etc.) to bring in business.
Does this role fall under sales in sales and trading? Would it be a good opportunity to learn the business and products and possibly transfer to a desk a few years down the line?
any input?
What does it take to be in the Sales side of S&T? (Originally Posted: 02/04/2013)
What are the necessary skills employers look for when looking for full timers in the sales side of S&T?
Being fond of financial markest, leadership & people skills (good communicator and likeable) and some quanty skills for the more exotic products. But they don't really make a difference with traders prospects during the process if you're interviewing for a summer internship position for example.
likeable
Go to a target school that has strong OCR
Personable
Don't be a squid. If you have a large group of friends and/or were popular in school you'd probably do well in sales.
S&T (sales) (Originally Posted: 06/17/2010)
I have been researching the S&T career path and the Sales aspect sounds interesting but I cannot invision what the position actually does. Ive read that they are constantly on the phone with clients and relay sales to the trader. I keep invisioning the guy on the trading floor on the telephone yelling orders and giving hand signals. Am I thinking about this correctly? If not, what position am I invisioning?
Someone recently posted the Sales part of the vault S&T guide. I suggest finding and reaidng that.
I read that post but now when I search I cannot find it. I dont think it actually addressed my specific question though.
The trading floor is mostly dead. Salesman relay orders to trade desks, which are often about 10 yards away. Then there are sales-traders, my former position, who do both.
Cartwright, Thanks for the answer. Would you mind if I pm you some specific questions?
Lol yes, leave the hand signals in the pits of chicago or the floor of the NYSE this is NOT sales: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1404/1418296207_18248f8d49.jpg
Scroll through these for a better idea of what sales looks like: http://www.artremis.com/article/ubs_trading_floor.html
The sales guy need only stand up and look over his monitors to speak to the trader... or perhaps a brisk walk across to the next row of desks.
FXTrader,
Thanks! That helps a lot.
In my experience, FICC and Equities sales are actually very different. Most guides tend to only describe cash equities/institutional research sales roles.
it seems like everyone who gives advice here only works in cash equities when describing sales. CashEquit is for kids, im sorry, anybody could do it. if you wanna know about sales, you need to know what desk and what products...it varies ENORMOUSLY!!
Would you provide some examples of different desks for those of us that are not familiar?
There is threads on here about Structured Product Sales, Fixed Income Sales, FX Sales and even commodity Sales. What more do you need?
Btw, if you want to know what Cash Equities or Sales-Traders do, a new movie called "The Good Guy" shows the job a little, overall decent flick.
Actually Im so uneducated in the industry that I was asking for the different types of desks. I'll search the threads you mention.
I think the OP generally has the right idea about what a salesman does. A salesman relays orders from the client to the firm's traders, pitches ideas (ie the stuff the firm wants to sell) back to the clients, and also "manages the relationship" by entertaining the client (dinner, drinks, etc.) or marshaling the firms internal resources for the client (ie getting a good analyst on the phone with a client, sending them apropriate research, etc).
In my opinion a good salesman is somebody who has the respect of the trading desk so they give him good prices, knows how to get you what you need in terms of the firm's research staff (ie i call looking to talk to an analyst and he is on the phone with me in 5 minutes no matter what), and is a person who is fun to hang out with so that you actually want to use the comps the firm offers (tickets, dinner, etc.).
Sales in S&T? (Originally Posted: 02/18/2007)
I'm interested in working in sales rather than trading. From what I understand the job requires close cooperation with a trader passing information from and to the client while trying to make a deal on the phone.
I would like to know what are the responsibilities of somebody working in sales. Does one have to build the book of clients from scratch or do you just start working with some existing clients.
If you are required to build your book from nothing, how does this happen in reality. Do you just call new potential customers and start doing business by phone or does it require that you meet the client and persuade him "face-to-face" to start cooperating with you.
I have been doing b2c- and b2b-telemarketing part-time throughout my studies and I am really good at it. However I have also tried to work as a sales rep visiting clients in their offices and did somewhat poorly. I am good at discussing with clients "face-to-face" but I just cant close the deal.
Therefore I would like to know, how important are the face-to-face skills in making a sale?
And also does a salesperson need same level of math if he works with e.g. exotic derivatives as oppose a trader working with same products?
Thanks!
person skills are crucial. big plus if you have the math to understand complex products. A lot of successful sales people understand math behind.
There is no "cold calling" at sell-side shops unless you are a very senior MD. As a junior sales person you are dealing with existing clients. If the desk is in a relatively new area (parts of EM or Commodities, for example), there may be an element of chasing down new business, but it will be done by senior people. The typical functions of a sales persons varies heavily by desk. On a very flow desk (e.g., IG bonds), you will be talking to the client on one side, then interacting with the trader on the other. With more structured produts you will be building pricing models yourself, then also interacting with structuring primarily, then with traders also. As the product gets more complicated there is also a huge element of consulting, PE, and IB type work. As the sales person you literally own all the deals, which means you have to work with lawyers, accoutants, credit risk, etc. to make sure all aspects of the deal get through. This is more so with newer products--you won't see much of that with vanilla bonds, equities, etc. Also lots of due diligence--analysing financial statements, valuing assets, evaluating capital structures, etc. But again, it varies by desk. I honestly think sales is kind of a BS role on flow desks, but as you get more and more complex it really does become the most important position on the desk, in that you really do run the deals. That said, while you'll make a ton of money, you don't have the high-end potential that, say, a commodities prop trader does. Because you are not taking the risk, then if you want to make $10MM instead of $5MM, you'll need to put in twice as many hours. But in all reality, the number of traders who are pulling in the 50-100 million numbers you hear rumours about are few and far between, so for the average person in the business the pay is probably about the same for either sales or trading.
Thanks!
"And also does a salesperson need same level of math if he works with e.g. exotic derivatives as oppose a trader working with same products? "
no.
Jimbo--not necessarily. On my desk the sales team is just as quant as the trading side or structuring side. Also, on a number of desks these days structuring is aligned with sales instead of with trading.
So in general sales is not as quant, but that's starting to change. So to the OP check it out before you join the desk, to make sure the quant level if something you are comfortable with.
To clarify: is "sales" referred as "marketing" on some firms/desks?
As far as I know all sales desks are called sales desk, across products and banks. There is also a marketing role, and I've seen marketers on both sales desks and structuring desks. Usually "marketing" is about going out on the road and drumming up interest in and helping to place new products (esp. structured products like CCOs, CDOs, etc.). So it's a slightly different role from traditional sales.
is Sales easier than Trading?
Would the CFA help in a sales position? I am interested in sales, however I am not taking a math/physics degree, therefore would the CFA help offset the quant prerequisite? I know that it is a charter for analysts in research, but shouldn't slaes people be extremely knowledgable about the products?
sales is not easier than trading by any means...whether it be fixed income or equities, sales people must have a vast knowledge of everything going on in the economy, business news etc. most traders are sector specific and trade the same companies everyday. They may know a lot about whats going on, but can get by but just knowing their sector. A good sales person has to have a much deeper, and wider knowledge of whats going on in the financial markets. At my firm, the fixed income sales people are extremely bright. If its your job to pitch complex ideas and strategies to huge hedge funds, you need to know your shit. On the equity side, you can get a long just pitching the research ideas, but most good salesmen have a view, generate their own ideas, and add value that way. The learning curve is steeper than trading, just because of the vast amount of information you need be fluent in.
ehh...not to knock sales guys, b/c i think the job is actually quite hard but they generally don't understand the product at the same level of depth.
I would agree with Skins on a general level..Its true, to trade a sector you must have a very deep level of understanding for it in order to be succesful. I heard a good analogy that is applicable to this discussion..In terms of trading, your knowledge base should be an inch wide and a mile deep. On the other hand in sales, your base must be a mile wide and at least an inch deep (obviously a generalization). but of course, as with anything else in finance, it honestly all depends on the product, desk, etc. I think most people would agree with that.
easier to be a success in sales ...vs. trading? (Originally Posted: 04/16/2010)
I was curious to know people's thoughts regarding whether it is easier to be successful in equity sales vs. trading. Let's just say you aren't a programming genius or "in love" with the markets, or a quant-jock... but rather you enjoy the energy of the trading floor, the predictable hours, and of course generous income. Would Sales be a much better/safer route??
Can anyone specifically talk about the key differences between what makes traders great traders. vs. what makes salesguys great at sales?
very similar..in terms of success difficulty... sales is certainly not easier.. sales is not what you described...you need to love the markerts and the hours are not predicatable..the street gives nothign for free. both are just as hard...generally sales is more rounded, ppl skill based and your ability to vulgarize concepts to morons is key... you need to know what your talking about 100%... at my firm most sales ppl have masters in finance or financial engineering or CFA...but then again, its EQDerivs, not plain vanilly equity
So in other words, you have no discernible skills and no passion for the industry - you just want to "be around" people who add value, then punch out at 4:30pm and make boatloads of cash. Sounds like a plan, dude. Let me be the first one to tell you - success in anything is not easy and takes lots of hard work. If you are already sniffing around for the "easy" route, then I'd be willing to bet $1mm on your eventual failure in that regard. Find out what you're interested in, what value you can add, and then work really hard at it and you'll be fine. Bullshit questions about which stream of "generous income" is easier to leach off of will get you nowhere.
well said....no easy route...you need to be damn passionate
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