Switching from Private Banking to Investment Banking

I would also like to know about this

i cannot speak from experience but unless you make that career switch via an MBA i don't see much reason why any bank's IBD should hire you. what skills do you bring to the table that are any good there? at what stage of your career are you planning to make that switch btw? question is also whether its a wise move. i mean PB is a long-term relationship business that starts paying off after you've build and looked after your own client list for a number of years. leaving early would mean that you did all that work before for nothing since the big payoffs only come after your AUM are huge and you have hopefully guided your clients to financial success over the years.

I think moving from the PB at a BB to the IBD at that same BB is possible and more feasible than moving from the PB to IBD at another bank or boutique.

If you want to do this though, you really have to kick ass as an analyst/intern in the PB, have a compelling story as to why you want to move to the IBD, and know a significant amount of people in the bank (HR and IBD). There's a high amount of turnover in finance, especially in the IBD. Banks would rather hire a seasoned analyst who they know is smart and knows the firm (but is in the PB) than go through the interview/recruiting process.

*I'm assuming you're looking for an analyst role

On a slightly different topic (but I didn't think it was worth creating a new thread), how do PB internships compare to PWM in terms of prestige and workload? (at a BB).

just met a goldman employee who made the switch... very doable

They're the same thing, just a way some banks separate $2-25M accounts with $25M accounts. Some banks, like Goldman, don't even have different divisions for the two. Regardless of whether you have $6M in assets or $600M in assets, you still may need a mortgage, trust services, may be interested in buying an equity or fx structure, etc.

I will say that there is a difference between being a "financial advisor" or broker at UBS, Merrill, Morgan Stanley, Steifel Nicols (or however its spelled) etc,. At these shops you're essentially a retail broker, selling mutual funds and other retail products to people.

I would like to understand the move made by the Goldman's employee to IB from PB. It appears very difficult as being a PB myself i feel your skills are not transferable as what you have is; relationship management qualities and networking skills, that's all. Usually i get investment managers to manage assets under a discretionary portfolio and keep myself more employed in bringing new business. If there is a probability to move to IB anyhow, what is that probability and how exactly it should be done?

any thoughts or comments will be appreciated.

How can you expect anyone tell you the probability? I'll just say that the chances are low if you're a summer intern but doable. If you're already a fulltime employee, there are 0 transferable skills and your chances are extremely low, probably same chances as someone moving from back office to IBD.

So, basically, there is no way you could move from pb to ib? i'll give you a bit of background and see if you could unravel something. after completing my MBA in finance, i immediately started working for a private bank as a intern and then gradually progressed to RM and then a Associate Director to Senior Private Banker as of now. this has taken 9 years. though it has provided me experience but i have never been able to establish a large book of clients. though i know a lot of people in the market but it never transpired to a big business. however in the last 2 years i have come across some very good clients and are prepared to do business with me. currently im looking out for another opportunity as my bank has started doing restructuring and are downsizing. in the interim, i feel is it really something i could achieve success in or iam just doing it because i have always been in this industry? that question i cannot answer somehow. i like meeting people and socializing and dining with them. i sometimes feel that the platform i have worked on is not right and had it been a proper private banking platform i could achieve something. but there is a doubt in my mind as i have already spent like 9 years and there is nothing material and have not made a single penny in bonus so far.

Maybe its time to look at developing other skills?

if not PB then what?

I have to brutally honest and i agree what you say. As i don’t know ABC about IB and only heard about all the intellectual work being done therefore im more interested and inclined to gather more information. Now, as you say i should completely through the option out of the window, it makes me think twice whether or not i should even start exploring any options. Don’t know.

The chain of private banking started when i was hired to do cold calling and arrange meetings for my business head and i had to do that for good 3 years until i was made responsible for managing some of the book left by him when he moved out of the bank. Someone else came in and he was given half the book. The organisation was extremely brutally bureaucratic and everything was about the unit manager, if anyone keeps him happy he gets the book and he gets the credits, can’t bear that. So, i was frustrated and i decided to leave the organisation and join somewhere more entrepreneurial which gives me freedom to do my own business my way. Though it was too early for me to do that as i had not gained momentum in the business and not gathered and made much contacts but i still went ahead and did that as it was entrepreneurial. Spent 3.5 years with the bank there and established a decent book which was about to generate at least $500k in revenues per year easily. But that’s when things started going in a wrong way for the bank because of the Greek exposure and i had to leave because of unavoidable circumstances. Therefore had to leave the small book which now obviously someone else is enjoying. Thereafter, got an opportunity to setup a desk from the scratch for the business this bank was starting for the first time, again very entrepreneurial and flexible which made me very much inclined. But within 8 months things started changing, the bank was acquired by the guys from middle east and they disbanded the desk completely and my position along with others was removed. Though i established a decent book again within 8 months and left revenue for the bank of about $400k to be made each year, still i do not get anything. I feel maybe it was unfortunate but then i also question myself is it my fault? Now, the situation is whether i doubt my own capabilities or say i was unfortunate and keep going forward and try once again with a bank which is more stable and entrepreneurial?

With regard to questions about my being successful in PB, i don’t know, i know a lot of people, but maybe the above reason clarifies why i was not successful. I like selling but diligent selling, i don’t like to push like retail style, my clients appreciate that i give them time and that i don’t product push them and let them decide what needs to be done. I’m good at acquiring clients and initiating relationships and establishing relationships. But I’m not good at forceful closure of deal when the client takes too much time and i keep lingering around all the time. I’m good at meeting new people and initiating contacts and meet prospects and explore options without being shy or embarrassed. What i don’t like is pushing someone to do business.

I don’t know if any of the things i do is a skill. I have a good network of prospects and clients. You asked why am i leaving now and not earlier, i never stopped of looking outside the box. I thought i was meant to do this and that once i have a decent book i can obviously be stable. My clients would like to explore options with me wherever i move but the inclination is towards real estate now and rather than investment management as cash is drying out in the current market environment.

I don’t wish to limit myself to any sector, i like financial services and i feel inclined towards it from the very beginning. If there is anything else i could do i would do but what is it that i can do?

Have you looked into things like sales or client service at an asset manager or hedge fund? If you are good at building relationships, those could be decent options. They're a bit more structured at some of the larger firms than most private wealth positions. It's still sales though, so that may or may not work for you.

Another idea I have is to look into investment consulting (places like Cambridge or Wilshire). Those jobs are about finding institutional clients who want help with asset allocation and which managers they should use, given their spending requirements. Seems like you have some background for that, although I don't know anything about the recruiting process at a place like that.

No matter where you go, you need to learn how to close if you stay in sales. Somehow, you need to find a mentor who knows how to close without coming across as a used car salesman. There are plenty of people out there like that.

Thank you for the comment. i will look into the Asset Management and Hedge Fund Sales and Client Services. i have a feeling that it's not a very lucrative career from the brief research on Google but like any other career it will obviously take time to make it lucrative.

I'm happy to close the transactions now as compared to 2 years back when i could not, so no problems there now.

i want to get a feedback from you based upon whatever information i have provided about the background and the experience.

My dilemma will remain for sometime, until i find a platform i can stay for longer and see my performance. i had a one to one with a close friend and he advised that the reason you were not able to build a book was because you were not able to stay at one place for about 5 years or so, had it been the case then we wouldn't be having this discussion. In order to be successful in private banking and cultivate a big book its crucial to stay longer at one place which apparently was not the case with me.

i think he was very right, maybe the next place i get to i could last for a long time and develop a book.

relationship building and networking, i think i have it and i want to develop other skills so as to be able to utilize myself elsewhere if required.

i think maybe im trying to reinstate the confidence back by writing to you but don't know if that's what iam doing or iam fooling myself back into another misery?

I am desperately looking for an alternative career away from Private Banking

Please advise what I could do

Many thanks