Displaying 101 of 216 results

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  2. Diversity recruiting has been the subject of several posts over the last few weeks. Although there are existing WSO posts that try to aggregate opportunity for diverse candidates, this one aims to be an exhaustive list that includes all the introductory p ...

    41 comments12 Apr 2019 -

  3. Easy...easy...put your proton blaster away and resume buyside fantasy of choice. All I want to say is that finance (perhaps) may no longer be the optimal major for breaking into...finance. Though the logic may counter conventional reason, so does an etern ...

    62 comments10 Oct 2016 -

  4. Sales and Trading Salary vs Investment Banking It seems like since the beginning of time, trading and investment banking have been the dream jobs of countless undergrads seeking big bucks. A lot changed when the financial crisis of 2008 came along, and tr ...

    177 comments24 Aug 2017 -

  5. Hey All, Whats the best way for me to present my GPA so I can get passed resume screens? I currently have a 3.41 GPA (5 Semesters). This is due to my Freshman year GPA being a 2.70 (2 semesters). My GPA from Sophomore Year and after is 3.78 (3 semesters). ...

    80 comments6 Jan 2016 -

  6. Trading Floor BS

    Sales and Trading

    HI All I'm an Associate in S&T on the sales side. I've had a good experience so far but changes have taken place at work which puts me at a disadvantage (reporting to not so friendly higher up). My resume looks a little hoppy given I've ...

    17 comments16 Sep 2018 -

  7. Hello. I am new to the WSO blogger community; this is my first post. I went to a semi-target and interviewed during the crisis, when company presentations & on-campus workshops pretty much dried up. WSO was a crucial source for me when I started finan ...

    37 comments13 Oct 2014 -

  8. Eddie Braverman's blog A new round of lay-offs is coming to the Street, and it looks like all the major banks will be hit. The cuts appear to be concentrated in the trading departments, no doubt a direct result of the financial reform bill's imp ...

    71 comments9 Jun 2011 -

  9. You're sitting in the head trader's chair after the markets close, looking through resumes for the next (newest) member of your desk. The candidates all look good to you: excellent experience with strong track records, good stories about their d ...

    60 comments11 Aug 2011 -

  10. This coming summer I was fortunate enough to land an S&T summer internship. I was wondering, from your experience, what would be the best way to prepare for internship? Are there specific books that I should read? Being a physics and economics major, ...

    34 comments3 Apr 2016 -

  11. Converting an S&T Internship

    Sales and Trading

    Alright, so about a month ago I posted on tips on prepping for the S&T internship, with the promise of providing some additional tips on what to do during the internship to maximize your chances of an offer. These are some general tips I would conside ...

    39 comments29 Jan 2018 -

  12. The "Culture" of a bank

    Sales and Trading

    Since we are slowly migrating from the interview stages to the post offer stage, the threads are starting to move much more towards XYZ vs ABC. I wanted to take time to talk about the "culture" question that keeps coming up. In particular kids a ...

    59 comments10 Feb 2011 -

  13. [deleted]

    Sales and Trading

    [deleted] sales and trading ...

    59 comments27 Jan 2014 -

  14. BB Sales and Trading

    Sales and Trading

    I just started a job as a credit trader at a middle market investment bank. Solid name, but not bb. It is quite clear how much the job has changed from the last 5 years just from my understanding of this. I am curious though.. This sales and trading is a ...

    25 comments20 Jul 2016 -

  15. Will Algo Trading Take Over?

    Sales and Trading

    Was just talking with a few people from work, who have been in S&T for a fair amount of time. We seem to agree that algo trading is the way to go in the near future. Computerization appears to be the trend, since it's cheaper and faster. Banks al ...

    40 comments11 May 2012 -

  16. Bond Jargon

    Sales and Trading

    Hi All Sorry for the very basic question. I'm use to the swaps lingo when it comes to bid / ask = pay / receive (whether outright, curve or fly). However when it comes to bonds being quoted in in yields, I understand that bid / ask = buy bond / sell ...

    13 comments5 Jun 2018 -

  17. Columbia SIPA MPA or Cambridge MFin?

    Business School and GMAT

    Hi guys! I recently received offer from both program, but hope to hear some advises before I make a decision. My goal is to get into a BB Bank F/O right after graduation. My background: Asian 2 yrs working experience in industry, finance position have exp ...

    23 comments24 Aug 2017 -

  18. Sales and Trading Best Desks

    Sales and Trading

    Hey Guys, Pretty standard thread... Incoming summer analyst at BB and am wondering the best desks, specifically for trading. I am aware that the answers may depend bank to bank, but I am specifically interested in trading and eventually moving to the buy- ...

    29 comments14 Dec 2014 -

  19. Hi there, I am currently a junior in college looking at SA's and was wondering if one is able to apply to multiple functions (IB, S&T, AM, etc.) an Investment Bank (GS, MS, JPM, etc.)? Will it be looked down upon that you aren't really focus ...

    21 comments23 Feb 2018 -

  20. Disclaimer: I already tried the search function. Now... I have heard a lot about headhunters contacting <span class='keyword_link'><a href="/finance-dictionary/what-is-investment-banking-division-IBD"><abbr title="i ...

    29 comments3 Apr 2017 -

  21. Hi all. Currently a second semester sophomore trying to get ready for the upcoming recruiting season. My concern is that right now, I don't have enough knowledge on the fixed income side of things. I have a basic understanding of things such as the y ...

    11 comments8 Jan 2019 -

  22. This past weekend about 120 WSO monkeys descended upon Houston, Texas for the 2012 Energy Rodeo, an event characterized by much fun had, knowledge gained, and contacts made by all. The monkeys came by car, by plane, and by bus, but no private choppers (at ...

    24 comments17 Jan 2012 -

  23. Derivstrading Needs Help

    Sales and Trading

    The surveys are done, thanks for all the help. I posted the objective of it in the other thread i made for it. sales and trading survey ...

    38 comments27 Mar 2011 -

  24. Hey Guys, I know this has probably been covered before, but I wanted some suggestions on how I can write an email to a VP who I didn't contact for a few months after I was rejected from a first round interview (I told him how the interview went, but ...

    20 comments23 Feb 2018 -

  25. After about five years in S+T at various banks and buyside shops, I am starting up a hedge fund based in NYC and focused on Asian markets. Most of the securities we trade are OTC equity and currency derivatives. We commenced trading with 10 million usd in ...

    26 comments26 Mar 2012 -

  26. S&T Prestige

    Investment Banking

    I guess I should be asking this question elsewhere, but I feel like the bullpen is the most *(and possibly only) regularly visited forum on this site. I have a question regarding s&t. I was wondering if there is a preference/prestige regarding s&t ...

    33 comments24 Mar 2011 -

  27. Just had superday in NY on November 3rd for Bank of America Sales and Trading. Has anyone heard back yet? Bank of America sales and trading Salary ...

    17 comments5 May 2017 -

  28. Is Rates Trading dead?

    Sales and Trading

    I recently accepted a position in a rotational program at a BB in Sales and Trading. I always had an interest in the more macro products, specifically rates. I recently heard that rates trading is dead given that rates staff have been cut tremendously and ...

    16 comments24 Nov 2016 -

  29. GS Entrepreneurs

    Investment Banking

    Should I enroll in GS 's entreprenuarial deposit series? Investment Banking CS major sales and trading Economics math target computer science schools econ Comp Sci econ/math Salary ...

    26 comments16 May 2013 -

  30. I've been active on this site for a few months now. It is clear that the demographic range is large in a myriad of senses. Ever so often there is a college freshman or the occasional high school student posting questions about recruiting, interviews, ...

    22 comments24 Aug 2012 -

  31. I found this blog pretty funny so I figured i'd share, and see what other monkeys have to add or say. Feel free to add to the list lol. 25 Guys to Avoid on Wall Street Investment Banking private equity wall street PWM sales and trading ...

    24 comments24 Feb 2011 -

  32. S&T Overview and Pay

    Sales and Trading

    Can someone here give a good overview of Sales and Trading? I know there are many different types. I'm more interested in how you get clients. How much of the job is coming up with ideas vs. calling clients? How is pay based? What's the typical ...

    31 comments17 Mar 2010 -

  33. Ok, so this Sales and Trading team came down to my campus for the usual recruitment talk and networking session. The traders were hounded by the eager undergrads who want to go into trading. The sales people had some people talking to them, asking more de ...

    23 comments7 Sep 2013 -

  34. Sales Vs. Investment Banking

    Job Search Advice

    Hey guys, this is my first ever thread, so sorry if it could be in a more relevant forum or something. I'm an A level student in the UK, so if you're American and reading this, I'm still at high school. I'm hoping to study Politics at ...

    20 comments10 Oct 2016 -

  35. So to be honest, I don't know much about the financial world, and was able to use some of my other experiences to land an internship over the summer. Feel free to message me if you want to learn my experiences of going through the process. Does anyon ...

    25 comments28 Jun 2013 -

  36. Citi Commodities

    Sales and Trading

    Anyone have any info on Citi commodities? They do OCR at my school and a lot of people I know have accepted offers from their commodity S&T desk in Houston. What is their reputation? Is their commodity desk a dying business like at most other firms? O ...

    17 comments6 Aug 2015 -

  37. BAML S&T Superpday

    Sales and Trading

    Hey, I just went to the sales and trading superday in the NYC office (Oct 6), just wondering if anyone went there could share some updates if any. Thanks! Bank of America sales and trading BAML SA Superday Salary ...

    12 comments3 Nov 2017 -

  38. For many, institutional sales offers the best of all worlds: great pay, fewer hours than in corporate finance or research, less stress than in trading, and a nice blend of travel and office work. Like traders, the hours typically follow the market, with a ...

    11 comments14 Mar 2018 -

  39. Silver Bananas to give out

    Investment Banking

    Got all the responses needed. Thanks a lot guys. I was helping out a friend with some extra credit for uni. He is looking at the decoy effect, where in the second survey there was a completely dominated option that should technically make people choose th ...

    24 comments20 Mar 2011 -

  40. Hi my name is Corey and I'm 15 years old. I'm currently a freshmen in High School and want to be a trader when I grow up. I have just started learning forex the last few months and I love it. I know I want to trade when I grow up and I want to g ...

    25 comments16 Mar 2010 -

  41. Background: I received a BB bank FT offer after the S&T rotational internship this summer. The FT program consists of four rotations in two years then you'll be placed at a desk as an Associate. I've done intensive reading on WSO and some of ...

    9 comments21 Sep 2018 -

  42. Nomura S&T Summer Analyst 2012

    Sales and Trading

    I will be working in Nomura 's Global Markets division this summer. I was wondering if anyone had advice on what I could do to prep for this internship in the months ahead of summer? Tips from any past SAs will be helpful (even if not in Nomura) Did ...

    20 comments4 Mar 2012 -

  43. S&T Bonus Structure

    Sales and Trading

    I know this topic has been "beaten to death", but I'm struggling to find decent bonus information for sales and trading roles in particular. I've done some fairly extensive searching but the vast majority of topics cover traditional IB ...

    20 comments12 Nov 2012 -

  44. Is there anybody here who is in credit research? I am specifically looking at equity research versus credit research. The ins, outs, advantages, pay scale, etc. I have some more questions that I can PM/email you. Investment Banking hedge fund s&t sale ...

    20 comments18 Feb 2012 -

  45. Hey Guys, ...

    20 comments11 Jul 2010 -

  46. Job outlook for trading

    Job Search Advice

    Recent reports by the NY state comptroller say that Wall Street will lose 10,000 jobs by the end of 2012 (http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/11/news/economy/finan...). Is this a death sentence for getting hired for a trading job in the near future? I am a junio ...

    18 comments11 Oct 2011 -

  47. So with two months to go, I thought it would be a good shout for all those about to start s&t internships to give a couple points of advice on things you should be doing before you start in 2 months time. Im hoping more useful tips will be added by ex ...

    18 comments31 Mar 2011 -

  48. which is better IBD vs Sales Trading summer analyst both at BBs ultimate goal PE IBD sales and trading New York ...

    18 comments3 Feb 2011 -

  49. . trading invesment banking sales and trading ...

    15 comments8 Jan 2016 -

  50. S&T in Hong Kong vs. New York

    Sales and Trading

    I couldn't find anything in a search, so I was hoping some of you (especially those who have worked in both cities) can talk about what the differences are in terms of the work, the culture, the lifestyle, exit ops, etc. I have a final round with a B ...

    16 comments11 Jun 2014 -

  51. What makes a great trader? Well, according to two neuroeconomists (whatever that means) at Claremont Graduate University, genetics makes the difference between a good and great trader. Specifically, the reward-driven neurotransmitter, dopamine, can play a ...

    12 comments5 Feb 2012 -

  52. I will be interning at a boutique commodities trading firm on the Main Line! It sounds like a fantastic opportunity, but I don't know about the location. I don't know the area but do know it's not Manhattan. It's not an established int ...

    10 comments10 Apr 2017 -

  53. PhD Accounting? Good or bad?

    Sales and Trading

    During my undergrad years, I landed an internship in a risk management department in NYC. Unfortunately due to massive layoffs and budget cuts, I was not offered a job. So as a backup, I decided to pursue a MACC degree and once again try to prepare for a ...

    13 comments9 Feb 2017 -

  54. hey guys, im totally undecided about where to go and what to do. recently ive been looking at all the business cards I have and some are far better, heavier- think the scene from amer pyscho- than others. some look ridiculous, I have one that has the colo ...

    16 comments8 Feb 2011 -

  55. Hi, I've been lurking this site for some time and there are some things that I'd like to clear up. Like most students here (presumably) I'm searching for the type of career in finance that can grant the highest potential earnings. After ask ...

    13 comments7 Aug 2014 -

  56. Considering a few offers...can anyone comment on the pay differences in a normal year at the following BB 's for an analyst all else equal?: GS MS Barcap Citi UBS Thanks. sales and trading bonus pay ...

    16 comments8 Oct 2010 -

  57. Dear friends, I'm preparing for an interview in credit sales and trading and was wondering what do people do in this business. I have two years' experience as a CDO manager and alternative credit investment advisor. According to the headhunter, ...

    8 comments19 Jun 2018 -

  58. A couple of my friends have gone through sales and trading interviews for summer internships and they tell me that the questions they got were almost all fit... maybe a quick brainteaser or asking them what they felt about the markets but the rest was all ...

    15 comments16 Dec 2010 -

  59. The End of S&T?

    Sales and Trading

    I was just reading the thread "Alternatives to Banking" on the front page, and Bernanke (the WSO user not Fed Chairman) argued that Sales and Trading is a better alternative to M&A in terms of avoiding some of the declines we have seen in ba ...

    14 comments17 Feb 2012 -

  60. Hi all, I want to to get some suggestions in terms of choosing between these 3 options, all at their New York offices. I am personally fine with doing any, however I want to know which one might be better in terms of its relative strength, and how probabl ...

    12 comments17 Feb 2014 -

  61. Like the title says, did anyone hear back from Scotiabank? Sales and trading superday yesterday, 2/22/16 at their office. Rejections or acceptances? Scotiabank sales and trading Salary ...

    10 comments23 Feb 2016 -

  62. Brain teaser book

    Sales and Trading

    Can anyone recommend a good book covering brainteaser interview questions? interview offer sales and trading interview prep ...

    14 comments27 Jan 2010 -

  63. [deleted]

    Sales and Trading

    [deleted] sales and trading ...

    12 comments27 Jan 2014 -

  64. I've been noticing that a lot of the banks have been mentioned in the press for their plans to cut jobs in several different FO groups. Will there be another bear market and banking purge akin to 2008 soon? IBD job cuts sales and trading ...

    9 comments9 Dec 2015 -

  65. I've secured an S&T role at a BB in NYC, but when I was applying last year, I was flirting with the prospect of living in London- I grew up there and it's my favorite city in the world. I was able to get this position in NYC by heavily using ...

    6 comments12 Apr 2019 -

  66. I have offers from both these, pay is the same, interested in both, not sure if I would be good at S&T but fancy a shot at it. Was wondering peoples opinions on the choice. Also what can senior wealth managers get paid? and if I went into the investme ...

    11 comments8 May 2013 -

  67. Not including "quant trading " Self-explanatory title. Also, how does equity derivatives compare with fixed income derivatives? Thanks! sales and trading ...

    11 comments28 Mar 2013 -

  68. There's often stories floating around of people looking to do, or having done, the move from finance to consulting. But it always seems to be from IBD. It's understandable that this would be more common due to more relevant transferable skills, ...

    9 comments7 Apr 2016 -

  69. For those of you who have had trading experience or have shadowed enough traders during internships, what is the usual P/L of a trader per day for any desk that you've observed... like let's say a cash trader on a good day would have 10k profit ...

    12 comments10 Dec 2010 -

  70. I am interested in learning more about FICC S&T vs Equity. I understand there are different products, can someone expand on what the products are (I am assuming corporate and government debt, commodities and currencies). Are they involved in money mar ...

    12 comments19 Aug 2010 -

  71. So, it turns out I got offers from both (see an earlier post- it took quite a while) in Sales and Trading (I want to do trading). I think it is fair to say that Goldman has a slight edge but I don't know about the division, I would definately prefer ...

    12 comments12 Mar 2010 -

  72. Eddie Braverman's blog With Facebook filing to go public last week, I've been remembering a lot about what it was like to work in the IPO market in the early 90's. For those who don't know, I worked for a firm that was a dominant playe ...

    9 comments7 Feb 2012 -

  73. . sales and trading Wharton waterloo Salary ...

    10 comments8 Jan 2016 -

  74. MBB vs. Goldman S+T

    Management Consulting

    Disclaimer: Please don't respond if you are going to say "depends what you want to do: trading or consulting."-- its not that I don't think that comment is valid (it is), its just that I am not sure on long-term career yet and that adv ...

    11 comments15 Feb 2011 -

  75. What are the pros and cons of going to work as an analyst in the sales and trading division of Credit Suisse and Deutsche Bank? What are the strengths of these programs and what are their comparative advantages? Thanks for any help or insight you could pr ...

    11 comments15 Feb 2011 -

  76. Purple Heart to Front Office

    Investment Banking

    Hey guys, Senior in high school here. I rcently got accepted to a non-target school and realize i have no shot at FO comin out of there. So I was wonderin: should I go into the military for six years n then try my luck at breaking into IBD? If I was to ea ...

    11 comments10 Oct 2010 -

  77. Barclays Sales and Trading

    Sales and Trading

    I know that it really differs desk by desk, but how does BarCap stand up in S&T? They have improved a lot since the integration of Lehman, and are in the top 3 for a lot of categories. Also, where do you see them going in the future? Barclays barcap s ...

    11 comments8 May 2010 -

  78. IB & K-F Business School

    Investment Banking

    Hi guys, I'm looking to break into IB and after 20 months in NYC, can't seem to do it coming from a non-target. I have applied to a few top-20 b-schools and today received an invitation to interview at UNC's Kenan-Flagler. Care to enlighten ...

    11 comments16 Feb 2010 -

  79. Hey, i am wondering since there aren't that many girls in S&T, if it's easier if you're a girl (relatively hot for a top 1o school). sales and trading ...

    11 comments22 Jan 2010 -

  80. I am reading "How the Trading Floor Really Works" by Terri Duhon and my question is in regards to the trading that goes on between a bank and their clients. According to the text, when a client of the bank (fund manager or whatever) wants to sel ...

    9 comments31 Oct 2014 -

  81. Didnt receive dream internship

    Sales and Trading

    Hello, I did not get a bulge bracket S&T internship my junior summer (right now), but I did get a less formal S&T internship with a boutique back home that does not offer full-time positions to interns. I was wondering if I still have a chance at ...

    9 comments28 May 2014 -

  82. S&T recruiting at Booth

    Sales and Trading

    I recently talked to a former co-worker who just finished his first year at Booth. He said that about 95% of the people who get recruited for S&T end up in sales, NOT trading. He said BB trading jobs are insanely difficult to get. I was really surpris ...

    10 comments2 Jul 2010 -

  83. I hope to eventually break into Sales and Trading, but I graduated in May and my networking has not paid off as much as I'd like it to. I have received an offer to work on Prudential's annuity sales desk as an internal wholesaler. Ideally I' ...

    9 comments9 Jun 2015 -

  84. I have two offers and need to decide fast! A bit about my background, I did S&T for my summer internship and now secured a Full Time Sales role in Fixed Income for a smaller bank comparable in size to RBS, RBC, Nomura, CIBC and etc. The other offer is ...

    9 comments4 Jun 2013 -

  85. Hi Guys, I have two offers for the summer and could use all the help I can get with deciding on one. The two offers are Global Capital Markets with Bank of America Merrill Lynch and Sales & Trading with Barclays Capital. I'm having a really tough ...

    10 comments15 Feb 2010 -

  86. The Rolex Datejust. It was a symbol of your success. An announcement to the world and a reminder to yourself that you had arrived. Now you're standing soaking in the rain and the flip flops on your feet have taken the place of the Ferragamos of your ...

    8 comments27 Sep 2010 -

  87. I decided last fall that I don't want to be an accountant. I want to be a trader. It sounds cliche, but it's my passion. I love finance, mathematics, and money. Perfect fit. Anyways, I'm entering my fifth and final year of undergraduate stu ...

    8 comments13 Jul 2014 -

  88. Why Inflation is important in an economy

    Investing, Markets & Macroeconomics

    Wondering if someone can explain why inflation is important in an economy. I know in the US, we have a target rate of 2% and in Canada they have a target range between 1-3%, with the ideal being 2%... but my question is... why do you even need inflation? ...

    7 comments27 Jul 2016 -

  89. Which of these programs do you think is the best (no obvious answer of course)? Can anyone with previous internship experience weigh in on their experiences? Culture wise? Work wise? What you got out of the internship? Desk strengths? Thanks. UBS Citi s&a ...

    9 comments22 Jan 2011 -

  90. Resume for S&T SA

    Resume Advice

    Hi, I'm doing my applications for S&T internships right now, and I thought it would be a good idea to ask for some feedback on my resume (http://www.razume.com/documents/18225) first. All advice much appreciated resume sales and trading ...

    9 comments7 Jan 2011 -

  91. So I am starting this fall in a BB fixed income strategy desk. I am in the sales and trading graudate program, however the desk is not what I want at all. I want to do trading not strategy. In my bank traders don't listen to strategists at all so we ...

    9 comments23 Sep 2010 -

  92. Hello, I am currently completing my second Master's Degree at a French University and will be applying for the graduate positions at the investment banks in London for the 2011 intake. My desired position is either a sell-side analyst (S&T) or a ...

    9 comments31 Aug 2010 -

  93. Hi Guys, I have 3 offers for the summer and could use all the help I can get with deciding on one. The offers are: Global Capital Markets with Bank of America Merrill Lynch Sales & Trading with Barclays Capital Products Group within Wealth Management ...

    9 comments16 Feb 2010 -

  94. Bay Street Applications

    Investment Banking

    Did everyone in their final year meet the deadlines for Investment banking and Sales and Trading applications at RBC Capital, Scotia Capital and TD Securities?? You still have time for CIBC. Anyone heard back yet? Investment Banking sales and trading Bay ...

    9 comments14 Sep 2009 -

  95. Would I be crazy...?

    Investment Banking

    Sorry in advance for the long post, but I need some advice... Let me begin by saying I know I am getting slightly ahead of myself, but I would rather start thinking about this sooner rather than later. So I lost my summer internship in IBD when my bank we ...

    9 comments4 Oct 2008 -

  96. Publicly traded Retail Brokerage Firm currently looking for a creative, entrepreneurial minded and money motivated individual for our Broker Trainee Program. Trainee will work directly under senior partners while also having the opportunity to work with n ...

    8 comments19 Aug 2011 -

  97. Need an SA

    Investment Banking

    Alright guys, here is my situation: Have a FT offer for S&T with a BB, but I just got accepted to Oxford for a two-year master's program and I have decided it is best to go. I ultimately want to work in S&T, but I think in the long run going ...

    8 comments26 Apr 2011 -

  98. The "Going Balls Long" Debate

    Sales and Trading

    As this is often debated on the trading floor- why not do an open forum on WSO as well... Submit your antonym to the phrase, "balls long." nyc MBA hedge fund s&t credit sa options equities Internship CFA sales and trading Harvard Wharton Fun ...

    8 comments22 Apr 2011 -

  99. Anyone know the relative base pay and after bonus total pay for these two? I'm deciding between which one to pursue. sales and trading Base Pay equities research ...

    8 comments7 Jul 2010 -

  100. Does anyone here know anything about fixed income trading at the 'private bank' division of a top BB? How different would this be from a more traditional institutional trading job? Are the private wealth advisors the 'sales-people' who ...

    8 comments10 May 2010 -

  101. Hi everyone, I have 2 exploding offers from 2 different BBs, one in the Alternative Investment arm and one in S&T. For the Alternative Investments one, I would be working in one of their direct investments group (not FOF), while for the S&T will b ...

    7 comments26 Mar 2012 -

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