How Tech Beat Wall Street
In last Friday's Bonus Bananas one article stood out: it was the piece written by Bryan Goldberg entitled, "Young people are screwed… Here’s how to survive". The WSO community was split pretty much down the middle as to whether or not this was a valid (and/or valuable) addition to the debate on the problems facing young people today. What caught many people's attention is that Bryan described himself as a "failed investment banker".
So I've decided to highlight his next piece entitled, "Finance lost. Tech won. Here’s why…" because in it he describes exactly what he means by "failed" investment banker and he goes on to describe the different attributes it takes to survive on Wall Street vs. almost any other career path and why finance careers are increasingly unpopular with Generation Y.
Some of you are not going to like what he has to say. And it certainly doesn't apply to everyone on Wall Street (some finance jobs actually do require a modicum of creativity). But for the most part he's spot on. And he should be: he was the only SA out of a class of 100 not to receive a full time offer from CSFB in 2004. So he definitely knows what it takes to fail on the Street.
He also brings up the point that a career in banking is flagging in popularity among young people. In 2005, investment banks represented 9 of the 30 most desired employers. Today they only represent 3. So why the big shift in sentiment?
It’s not because of money. Those who want to get rich will find that Finance is still a great way to make big bucks. Have bonuses been reduced? Great, so now you will make a million dollars in a big year, instead of two million. Hedge Fund managers still make a fortune.
The reason is because people — especially smart and ambitious people — have determined that the skills which make you a great banker are not the skills that they want to develop or manifest.
He goes on to list the four attributes that make a successful banker and outlines how pretty much the polar opposite of those is a recipe for success in the start-up world.
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this piece since you've presumably chosen to stay the Wall Street path, which makes you a bit of an outlier at least relative to your peers. Will Wall Street make a comeback? Or will it be relegated to the esoteric pursuit that it was considered prior to 1985? Before you get into a huff, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Imagine a scenario where you only had to work with people who actually wanted to be in finance and not just to make a six-figure salary right out of college. Is the shift in Gen Y's priorities a good or a bad thing?
Comments
He's talking about the
He's talking about the differences between a small tech company and a large 100+ year old financial company, but the title is 'Finance won, Tech lost' (oops, Freudian slip). The experience at Credit Suisse would probably be pretty similar to working at Intel or Microsoft now, in terms of bureaucracy/hierarchy levels.
The first article contains a lot of truth to it though. As the number of college grads proliferates, the average degree is worth less. Let's be honest, a degree from the University of Phoenix isn't going to open many doord and almost certainly is not worth the money.
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I interned at a top tech
I interned at a top tech company. And I went into finance. I preferred the life of an IB analyst to the tech company. And ER is vastly preferable to both.
His analysis is pretty accurate. You need a certain disposition and outlook to tolerate finance. Thankfully, most people who are willing to run the recruiting gauntlet have this personality type. It might be just be my impression, but a lot of the guys hired during "boom" times seem to be a poor fit long term - they took banking jobs because, hey, bankers made a lot of money.
In my case, I am reasonably well suited to finance. I respect the hierarchy. I would address my analyst as "sir" if he preferred it. I am also completely comfortable paying my dues. Still working on attention to detail, but that's what I get for covering an industry with bizarre accounting practices.
Tech and social media are sexy. Young people use their products. And since FB/GOOG/AAPL usage is so ubiquitous, they get positive social feedback. And that's really what young people have always cared about. Money is just a way to buy that status - even in the bubble, hardly anybody understood what bankers did.
Pretty funny that there are
Pretty funny that there are mirror articles on the tech/entrepreneur forums complaining about how much their industry sucks.
There's pros/cons to every industry, the only truth behind most of these "complainer" articles is that you should do what you're genuinely interested in. That way you're not pissed when your bonus is down 30% or when the start-up capital dries up and you're out on your butt looking for a new job.
Constantly whining and comparing other industries against each other is apparently the one thing our generation is good at versus actually going out there and doing something.
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SirTradesaLot: He's talking
He's talking about the differences between a small tech company and a large 100+ year old financial company, but the title is 'Finance won, Tech lost' (oops, Freudian slip). The experience at Credit Suisse would probably be pretty similar to working at Intel or Microsoft now, in terms of bureaucracy/hierarchy levels.
The first article contains a lot of truth to it though. As the number of college grads proliferates, the average degree is worth less. Let's be honest, a degree from the University of Phoenix isn't going to open many doord and almost certainly is not worth the money.
Not just a small tech company, but a start-up. Start-ups are unproven, which also seems to be his point in contrasting the two industries. I’d like to know what he was doing at Credit Swiss to begin with…
This is still more
This is still more encouraging for you guys than what I see recent law grads saying.
How sad that even at my age, I'd still go into banking given the chance...
Scott Irish: This is still
This is still more encouraging for you guys than what I see recent law grads saying.
How sad that even at my age, I'd still go into banking given the chance...
a friend of mine studied law at Oxford, got a 1st, speaks english, french, dutch, korean and ancient greek, has para-legal work experience and she's stunning and still had to settle with credit suisse legal dept.....seems rough out there for law guys and gals.
Oreos: Scott Irish: This is
This is still more encouraging for you guys than what I see recent law grads saying.
How sad that even at my age, I'd still go into banking given the chance...
a friend of mine studied law at Oxford, got a 1st, speaks english, french, dutch, korean and ancient greek, has para-legal work experience and she's stunning and still had to settle with credit suisse legal dept.....seems rough out there for law guys and gals.
I'd sooner jerk off buffalo for a nickel a herd than go to law school.
Honestly, even if there is
Honestly, even if there is some high level truth to this article, it just reeks of a combination of entrepreneur-porn and failure-fetishizing. The kind of articles that seemingly only come from people who have already found great success in their chosen field. Had this guy not sold Bleacher Report for $200 million, I doubt he'd be as quick to mentally masturbate to his previous failure. Nor would he pretend to be such an expert on what it takes to succeed in the field. Nor would he be as quick to dismiss the role money plays in decision making. It's very easy to say "money doesn't matter" when you've already had a gigantic payday.
And let's be clear, he has turned a junior investment banker into such a caricature, it's a bit silly. His whole "A banker does not speak up for three years and knows his place...an entrepreneur is bold and takes action blah blah blah" is crap. You'd be a real dickhead Analyst if you couldn't step up and take initiative and go above and beyond the role of quiet processer. No, you can't start running meetings from day one, but that's because it takes experience and relationships that no 22 year old is going to bring to the table. That doesn't mean that you can't contribute and take leadership roles in different ways.
And not every single person who starts a business is some wild west cowboy, despite what people involved with internet startups would have you believe. Additionally, let's not discount the skills and knowledge one gains from starting a career in finance, or any field for that matter. Not every business can be started through hard work and bold decisiveness alone, many require some combination of specialized knowledge and capital. This point is abundantly clear if you've ever worked in M&A or PE as you would have worked with founders and managers from an incredibly diverse set of backgrounds.
Here's the deal: if you are a super creative type, then finance might not be for you. On the flip side, let's not romanticize life at some random web 2.0 startup. Spending 10 hours a day coding the back-end of your brownie-recommendation signup page might not be as fulfilling as he makes it out to be. I doubt throwing together endless streams of sports-centric slideshow countdowns would be as fulfilling to the author if it didn't make him a boat load of cash.
If anyone has read my posts or followed me at all on WSO, they know I am not some finance loving nut. I have big issues with the industry, but I also have big issues with this sort of stuff. At the end of the day, everyone should focus on doing things that they like and that they are good at, and living within their means so as to allow them to do this responsibly. If that means working in finance, good for you. If that means working in tech, good for you. If that means opening a small business, good for you. If that means being a butcher, good for you. Just do you and be a decent human being. But, of course, that sort of advice isn't exactly sexy enough to get page views on some misc. tech blog.
::end rant::
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The article's downplay on the
The article's downplay on the pay is a bit bs stating in finance you can still earn millions. Well ya sure if you make it to the end, but fresh bankers didn't come in with their only goals to make to PE/HF. A lot of them like my friends just did it because they had no idea what they wanted to do (back in 06/07) so they got into banking since it was paying 200k+ a year, and had fantastic a MBA exit op. The goal was to boost resume, hurry the fuck up into B School and find an actual job that you enjoyed that also paid well. But now with shittier pay, same hours, less job security, over-enrolled B schools makes sense for people to op out to other fields such as tech which pays well still and a lot better hours.
Edmundo Braverman: I'd sooner
I'd sooner jerk off buffalo for a nickel a herd than go to law school.
I don't know if this is actually phrase and I just haven't heard of it before, but thank you for this.
Hi, Eric Stratton, rush chairman, damn glad to meet you.
Otter.: Edmundo
I'd sooner jerk off buffalo for a nickel a herd than go to law school.
I don't know if this is actually phrase and I just haven't heard of it before, but thank you for this.
Something an old Marine buddy of mine named Goat used to say 25 years ago.
Edmundo
This is still more encouraging for you guys than what I see recent law grads saying.
How sad that even at my age, I'd still go into banking given the chance...
a friend of mine studied law at Oxford, got a 1st, speaks english, french, dutch, korean and ancient greek, has para-legal work experience and she's stunning and still had to settle with credit suisse legal dept.....seems rough out there for law guys and gals.
I'd sooner jerk off buffalo for a nickel a herd than go to law school.
Law is just scary. I have friends at Yale/Harvard Law...even those guys are vying to be in the top half of their classes. Not even for prestigious clerkships - just to land at a well-reputed BigLaw firm.
I wanted to be a lawyer when I was young - then I realized there are just so many opportunities to fail: Low GPA? Screwed. Low LSAT? Screwed. Poor performance on 1st semester finals? Screwed. Not getting a BigLaw job? Screwed. And then you actually have to slog it out for 8 years before you are either promoted to partner or forced out into a lower paying F500 position. It makes the medical school process look goddamn forgiving.
Oreos: Scott Irish: This is
This is still more encouraging for you guys than what I see recent law grads saying.
How sad that even at my age, I'd still go into banking given the chance...
a friend of mine studied law at Oxford, got a 1st, speaks english, french, dutch, korean and ancient greek, has para-legal work experience and she's stunning and still had to settle with credit suisse legal dept.....seems rough out there for law guys and gals.
I know someone who studied law at Cambridge and now works in a bar. So it could be worse...
The level of denial on WSO is
The level of denial on WSO is inane.
It is okay to be vying for IBD/PE positions but a lot of people here seem to forgot or not noticed that tech already killed or displaced thousands of financial professionals with machines and programmers over the past decades.
Tech is a better place to be; its either a huge call options at startups for either IPO lottery or VC, or a decent compensated position at an existing company with good hours with chances of going startup/VC/ER. Downturn and exit path for tech is brutal and narrow, but nothing beats the lifestyle of rest and vest.
It seems like once every two
It seems like once every two months there is some form of "banking sucks and people don't want to do it" article posted. I am 100% happy that finance is dropping in the list of jobs people want from college. Because college kids are fucking morons (present company excluded of course).
If you don't like the hours, don't do it. This idea that every clown in San Fran is creating the next Twitter is comical. Reminds me of all the bro's starting their own breweries thinking they will be the next Sam Adams or some shit. Most of these dudes jerking off to tech are creating free Iphone apps and playing 360 in a 9 man apartment or something.
And comparing a junior banker, in essence a foot soldier, to some innovative tech guy is completely unfair. Compare a banker to a guy writing code all day or something. The vast majority of people in tech aren't inventing anything, just helping someone with their idea
Tech hasn't won. Finance hasn't won. No one gives a fuck and there is no contest. And if anyone came up to me unsolicited blabbing on about their sweet tech gig I'd pour a beer on their head and tell them to fuck off.
Can we all just stop with the dick measuring already? No one career is perfect and all of them have elements that suck.
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The article was
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Hi, Eric Stratton, rush chairman, damn glad to meet you.
All I'm going to say is that
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Tech beat Wall Street? I know
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MichaelOChurch: This is why
Ah I see, thanks for the