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Wall Street Oasis » Blogs » Wall Street Prep's blog
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My EBITDA multiple is bigger than yours
 

Wall Street Prep's picture
Wall Street Prep
      IB
 
 
(Baboon, 101
 
Points)
 on 12/14/11 at 4:44pm
interview.jpg

Investment bankers talk a lot about multiples. In fact, almost everyone in finance talks about multiples. Jim Cramer is probably talking about some company’s multiple right now.

Surprisingly, though, multiples and what they actually represent is deeply misunderstood by a frightening number of investment bankers (including, believe it or not, those that may be interviewing you on your super day).   So, let's get right to it - what is a multiple, really?

I assume you’re comfortable with the basics: Multiples reflect the market’s perceptions of a company’s growth prospects, so two companies with similar prospects and operating characteristics should trade at similar multiples.  And, if one is trading at a lower multiple than its “comparable” peers, then we can surmise that it is undervalued in the market. 

But is that all there really is to it? Why do multiples reflect a company’s growth prospects – and is that the only thing they reflect?  What really underlies a multiple?  What does it really mean to say that Microsoft trades at a 23.0x Share Price/EPS (P/E) multiple, or that Google trades at a 12.0x EV/EBITDA multiple?  

"How do you value a company?”
Before we look under the hood of a multiple, let’s take a step back.  A common investment banking interview question goes as follows: “How do you value a company?” To which, the prospective analyst or associate will be expected to respond that there are two major approaches – one is an intrinsic valuation – to calculate the present value of expected future free cash flows. The other approach – relative valuation – involves merely looking at the market values of comparable companies and applying those values to the company under analysis.

The distinction seems stark: the intrinsic approach suggests that the value of, say, a hot dog stand should fundamentally equal the present value of the cash flows it is expected to generate in the future, while the relative approach suggests that the value of the hot dog stand can be derived by looking at the value of comparable hot dog stands (perhaps one was sold recently and the purchase price is observable).

Multiples in valuation
Multiples play a central role in relative valuation. In our hot dog stand example, suppose a comparable hot dog stand, Joe’s Dogs, was purchased for $1 million several months prior to our hot dog stand being valued today.  If we know that Joe’s Dogs generated EBITDA of $100,000 in the last twelve months (LTM) prior to acquisition (that’s an Enterprise Value / EBITDA multiple of 10.0x), and we know that our hot dog stand generated LTM EBITDA of $400,000, we can apply the recently acquired EV/EBITDA multiple to our company, and estimate that we should expect a value of somewhere around $4.0 million for our hot dog stand today.

Arriving at value using multiples this way is a lot easier than projecting out cash flows each year and calculating a present value.  That’s why multiples analysis is ubiquitous in our world. While investment bankers use multiples all the time – in comparable company analysis, comparable transaction analysis, in LBO valuation, and even DCF valuation,* there is often confusion about what these multiples actually represent.

But are these valuation methods really distinct?  If your gut tells you that there has to be some connection, you’re right. But how do we reconcile valuing companies intrinsically with valuing companies based on multiples?

Cash is king
Intrinsic valuation says the value of a business is a function of the free cash flows (see definition below) that it can generate, plain and simple.  Say you are considering buying a business that will generate $1,000 in cash every year forever.  Based on your calculation of the riskiness of the business, you require an annual return of 10%.  As such you calculate that the most you would be willing to pay for such a business is:

Expanding the discussion slightly, if you expect the business’s free cash flows to grow by 5% every year, the calculation would change slightly to:

In fact, the general perpetual growth formula can be expressed as:

image3

We can delve a little deeper into this formula by breaking down free cash flows and growth into their component parts:

Free cash flows = NOPLAT [Net Operating Profit / Loss After Taxes] – Net Investment
Net Investment = Working Capital Investments + Capex + Intangible Asset – D&A
Growth rate = Return on invested capital (ROIC) * Investment rate
Investment rate = Net Investment / NOPLAT

Rearranging our value equation, we arrive at:
Image4
So where do multiples come in?  Well, let’s take a common multiple: EV/EBIT.  How does the EV/EBIT multiple fit into our understanding of value?

First let’s define EBIT relative to cash flow. Assuming you are the sole investor in the business for now (i.e., no debt) NOPLAT and, consequently, free cash flows, can be restated as:

NOPLAT = EBIT * (1-tax rate[t]), such that free cash flow = EBIT x (1-t) (1+g/ROIC)

Dividing both sides of our value equation by EBIT, we arrive at the definition of the EV/EBIT multiple:
Image5
Voila! All of the sudden, the drivers of a multiple become quite clear:

  • r: the higher the required return of a business, the lower the multiple
  • g: the higher the growth of a business, the higher the multiple
  • t: the higher the taxes on a business, the lower the multiple
  • ROIC: As long as ROIC is greater than the opportunity cost of capital (r), the higher the ROIC of a business, the higher the multiple.

Bottom line
Multiples are a simple way to discuss value.  But don't be fooled by the mechanical simplicity.  When you are using multiples to value a company you are implicitly saying quite a lot about your assumptions for the company's ROIC, reinvestment rate, discount rate, and future cash flow growth.  The mechanical simplicity just makes it very easy to forget all of those implicit assumptions.

When you compare one company’s multiple to another company’s multiple, if all the value drivers are equivalent (discount rate, growth rate, ROIC, tax rate), then the multiples should equal. However, if one or more of the drivers are different – say company A’s growth rate is higher than company B’s, then company A’s multiple should be higher.  If it is not, then you can say that company B is overvalued relative to company A.  If company A’s multiple is appropriately higher than company B’s, you can say that company A trades at a premium to company B to reflect higher long-term growth.  While tax rates and discount rates are generally equivalent across firms in similar industries, ROIC and growth rates can be quite different, so in fairly-priced equity markets, companies with higher multiples within a particular industry generally reflect different assumptions about ROIC, growth, or a combination of both.

* Although the DCF is supposed to be a pure intrinsic value calculation, a common approach for calculating the terminal value is to use an EBITDA multiple assumption.

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Matan Feldman Founder, Wall Street Prep Learn Financial Modeling
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Tags:
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  • investment banking interview
  • ebitda multiple
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Comments

Wall Street Mentors's picture

Great post - thanks!

Wall Street Mentors
      EN
 
 
(Gorilla, 623
 
Points)
 on 12/14/11 at 4:36pm

Great post - thanks!

[email protected]
Wall Street Mentors
Mock Finance Interviews

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Wasserstag526's picture

Very informative

Wasserstag526
      CF
 
(Senior Baboon, 205
 
Points)
 on 12/14/11 at 4:57pm

Very informative

'We're bigger than U.S. Steel"

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Nutry's picture

Excellent post! People

Nutry
      ST
 
(Baboon, 140
 
Points)
 on 12/14/11 at 7:52pm

Excellent post! People usually forget that ROIC is also a driver for multiples and tend to think only about the growth side of the question.

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ekimlacks's picture

This is awesome, thank you.

ekimlacks
      IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 211
 
Points)
 on 12/14/11 at 7:55pm

This is awesome, thank you.

Full Time:
First Round - 4
Second Round - 2
Final Round - 2
Offers: 1!

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littlepigmm's picture

1000/5% = 50000????

littlepigmm
      IB
 
(Chimp, 6
 
Points)
 on 12/14/11 at 8:45pm

1000/5% = 50000????

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DK's picture

littlepigmm wrote: 1000/5% =

DK
      IB
 
(Monkey, 33
 
Points)
 on 12/14/11 at 9:18pm
littlepigmm:

1000/5% = 50000????

lol.

Implied growth rate sensitivities

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timothy0's picture

Very nice post. Very well

timothy0
      O
 
(Senior Baboon, 219
 
Points)
 on 12/14/11 at 10:53pm

Very nice post. Very well articulated. I would be worried if interviewers don't know this. Is that true?

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Walkerr's picture

thank you

Walkerr
      IB
 
(Gorilla, 570
 
Points)
 on 12/15/11 at 2:40am

thank you

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ConanDBull's picture

because knowledge is power!

ConanDBull
      CO
 
(Gorilla, 542
 
Points)
 on 12/15/11 at 8:34am

because knowledge is power!

"Know what to do, know how to do it, and do it hard." - Juan Castillo

If you are in the Toronto Area join my group "Toronto Prospective Monkeys"
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/group/toronto-prosp...

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Wall Street Prep's picture

Quote: Very nice post. Very

Wall Street Prep
      IB
 
 
(Baboon, 101
 
Points)
 on 12/16/11 at 2:51pm

Very nice post. Very well articulated. I would be worried if interviewers don't know this. Is that true?

You would be very surprised. While you can assume everyone is familiar with the perpetuity formula itself, as well as a general sense of a linkage between fundamentals and multiples, understanding how ROIC and the reinvestment rate play a role in the determination of the multiple is an entirely different matter.

littlepigmm wrote:
1000/5% = 50000????

Thanks - good catch, should be all set now.

Matan Feldman
Founder, Wall Street Prep
Learn Financial Modeling

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BCbanker's picture

Volatility. This is the

BCbanker
      IB
 
 
(Gorilla, 633
 
Points)
 on 12/20/11 at 3:50pm

Volatility. This is the other factor that I think is most often left out of multiple analysis. Yes, a multiple is just made up of the underlying variables mentioned above. But it assumes all those variables are known and constant.

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Jeremystory's picture

Shouldn't that perpetuity

Jeremystory
     
 
(Chimp, 13
 
Points)
 on 2/14/13 at 12:26am

Shouldn't that perpetuity growth model be 1000*(1+5%)/(10%-5%) ?

Envision, create and believe in your own universe, and the universe will form around you. -- Tony Hsieh

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Wall Street Prep's picture

Jeremystory: Shouldn't that

Wall Street Prep
      IB
 
 
(Baboon, 101
 
Points)
 on 2/18/13 at 1:20pm
Jeremystory:

Shouldn't that perpetuity growth model be 1000*(1+5%)/(10%-5%) ?

You would be 100% correct had the first forecast cash flow been 1,000 (1+5%), but we actually designated our foirst forecast cash flow as 1,000. Remember, the growth in perpetuity formula is actually just value = fcf (t+1) / (r-g). In our example fcf (t+1) was simply 1000. The formula you describe above, however, is quite common, since often in modeling, you'll calculate fcf (t+1) as the prior year fcf * (1+g) so that you don't need to make an explicit forecast for fcf (t+1).

Matan Feldman
Founder, Wall Street Prep
Learn Financial Modeling

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Jeremystory's picture

Oh, right. Thanks.

Jeremystory
     
 
(Chimp, 13
 
Points)
 on 2/18/13 at 11:56pm

Oh, right. Thanks.

Envision, create and believe in your own universe, and the universe will form around you. -- Tony Hsieh

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  •  
FFNGO's picture

Thanks for the informative

FFNGO
     
 
(Senior Chimp, 17
 
Points)
 on 2/19/13 at 12:10am

Thanks for the informative post.

  • 0
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  • If you work in banking - even as an intern - you obviously have access to everything in the IB share drive including the WGLs for all deals going on. Esp. for capital raising deals where there will be many banks working together. Less so or N.A. for M&A deals. Networking is how you lateral...
    Is it wrong or illegal to network off your bank's WGL?
  • Hello! Does anyone know anything about Landmark Partners, a secondary private equity firm in CT? 1) interview questions? 2) culture? 3) responsibilities as an analyst? 4) whatever it is that you know about this firm... Thank you for you help. Have a great...
    Secondary PE: Landmark Partners
  • We're quickly approaching the summer when a fun-filled crop of fresh-faced monkeys will descend upon firms nationwide, hoping to secure a job post graduation. For the newly minted managers out there, you've got your work cut out for you. New guys come in all shapes and sizes and they...
    Tough Monkeys to Manage
  • Hi, I just got an offer from a firm that has an unique pay structure. I honestly don't know what to think of them. They say they have no base salary and just have commission/deal structure. (eg. bringing clients, lead etc, couldn't quite understand the role) Is this something I should...
    No base, Commission Based IB?
  • Anyone has any issues with their emails being flagged as spam when sent from gmail account to associates and higher at...
    Emails flagged as spam
  • I just received a summer offer at a BB in an S&T position. I want to live in Manhatten, hopefully close to my office. On such short notice what can I do about housing? Any advice? Most of the colleges/dorms appear to be sold out....
    Summer Housing
  • Hey all, Bottom line on top: would it help or hurt me to switch jobs a year before I knew I was attending...
    Job Change One Year Before MBA - Good or Bad?
  • so i just got (hopefully) the hang of all the financial statement analysis-evaluation-earnings manipulation thing but still i find myself poorly geared to face stock evaluations for a simple reason: i lack specific industry knowledge. how can i get that besides surfing the internet? are there...
    Need readings for specific industries
  • *"The Michael Jordan of Hedge Fund Managers". 25% net return to investors annually since inception w/an average Sharpe Ratio of 2.5. "This man has returned 3x the returns of Warren Buffet with a third of the...
    Money manager Ed Butowsky on SAC's Cohen
  • Hi Everyone, I need some advice, I just graduated and I just got an offer from BB ops (MS/GS) however I also have an offer to intern at a elite boutique (LAZ, HL, Moelis) in an advisory group. I really liked the people and the work at the boutique...however it's not full time and I already...
    BB Ops FT vs. Boutique internship
  • Has anyone applied for Citi's university program a few years out of college and got an offer or will they just immediately reject your application if you're not a current...
    Citigroup University Program
  • Was told to expect a question like this in an upcoming interview. I've seen market making questions before but not involving measuring distance (usually see ones that involve something more easily guesstimated like population). Can anyone help me come up with a reasonable way to attack this...
    Interview Brain Teaser
  • I have an upcoming interview with a rediscount group - any suggestions where I can find good material that covers different...
    Rediscount Product
  • So after graduating from a non-target last year I was unable to procure a job for a few months and eventually I took a role as a commercial real estate appraiser. I studied real estate investments in my last year at school and I think my ultimate goal when I took my current position was to try to...
    JP Morgan Middle Office in Newark DE vs. Commercial Real Estate Appraisal
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This is the reaction any analyst who has ever worked in banking has when you say you want to leave banking for business school then come back as a post b school associate... <img src="http://epicpinterestfail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/how-i-met-your-mother-barney-why.gif"...
Why You DON'T Leave Banking for B School Just to Come Right Back...
I get a ton of emails and answer a ton of posts asking similar questions so I thought I would answer the most common ones I get here and allow others to post their questions so everyone can see them and the subsequent answers. Hope this helps. <strong>Summer Analyst...
MSF Question and Answer
Inspired by comments from this: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/basic-guide-ramping-up-on-a-company-with-public-information-part-1-of-3 Lets just jump in. <strong>Technology:</strong> In this space there are really two metrics that matter the most, sales growth and EPS...
Beginners Guide to Valuation and Metrics By Sector
I'm currently a Private Equity Analyst in Shanghai, China. Academically, I graduated from a target school majoring in Economics and Chinese. I also spent my time at college as the president of an on-campus student organization related to Finance and Economics and a volunteer for a local...
Ask me anything… I'm a Private Equity Analyst in Shanghai
For better or for worse, there’s a very unique feeling when everything goes completely according to plan yet nobody seems to care or notice. Such is the case with our favorite company of the moment, Tesla Motors. For those unaware, TSLA has rocketed upwards since its Q1 earnings release,...
A Perfect Storm
I work as a long/short equity analyst at a large hedge fund. I've been lucky enough to be more than just a model monkey early on in my career, but have also been exposed to the stress of being measured on returns. I primarily cover consumer and TMT names. I went the typical path (target...
I'm a Hedge Fund Analyst - Ask Me Anything
Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
WSO is Looking for Campus Reps For Summer/Fall 2013 (and beyond)
<em>Mod note: Best of Bankerella - this was originally posted 10/1/12</em> I occasionally get PMed by people at colleges I’ve never heard of before, asking if they have a shot at IBD. Folks, why IBD? The finance world is broad and varied, and there are a million ways to...
My Biggest Career Mistake to Date: Prestige
This is just fantastic. After sitting through Carl Levin and John McCain spewing a bunch of nonsense about how Apple doesn't pay enough taxes (despite being the #3 taxpaying company in America behind ExxonMobil and Chevron), Rand Paul lit them up about what a travesty it was to blame Apple...
Rand Paul GOES OFF at Apple Hearing
Someone was asking me about this in PM and I wrote a long and detailed reply about what it is like to work in Big 4 and what advice I would give to people thinking about interning / working there. Thought it might be useful for others so my reply is below. Happy to answer any...
Working In Big 4 Audit in London
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