6/19/14

Mod Note (Andy) - Throwback Thursday - this originally went up July 2012

A while back I mentioned that during the two years of my MBA program at a top-5 school, I'd put a star next to every note I took that I thought was worth carrying forward into my future career.

When I moved on, I threw away the 18 handwritten notebooks, but not before compiling all the starred stuff into a document. Depending on how you look at it ,you could say this document cost me nearly a quarter million dollars (not including opportunity cost). Disappointingly, it is only 11 pages long... and that's double-spaced.

A couple people have since written asking me for the document. It's a pretty personal list, so I can't do that. But I will share a few juicy tidbits here.

On operations: Ops MBAs have very little advancement (C-suite) potential. This is because a smart generalist can run ops up until the numbers turn Greek. Then you just hire a specialist.

On convertible debt: After exhausting the straight debt markets, CFOs like to issue convertible debt that is non-callable for a given period of time, say three years. If you are an investor in the company's other securities, pay close attention to this time frame. This is often the outside horizon of the CFO's projected time with the company. (The CFO knows that if the stock doesn't go up a lot in these three years, he is already going to be out the door and it won't be his problem.)

On strategy: A lot of companies think they have a competitive strategy but don't. If my competitors could follow this strategy and get the same results, it's a best practice, not a competitive strategy. So keep looking.

On modern M&A: It's often just a way for intangibles to change hands. You can sell a factory; it's a lot harder to find a way to legally sell a customer.

On revenue synergies: Sell them to the clients. Don't believe in them yourself.

Looking for early signs of a company in distress? The credit rating downgrade is not a warning; it's the final nail in the coffin. Instead, find out whether they are missing their 2/10 net 30 discounts. The return on that discount is way above most corporations' cost of capital. So if they're missing it, they're either morons or they have cash flow problems.

Oh, and one more important thing I learned during the program: on one of my blog posts a while back, I said that anyone prepping for b-school needs to brush up on their penis jokes.

The general response to this was along the lines of this response: "OP is out of touch with our current reality. Penis jokes? Really? Are we back in high school? I mean, I'm about to drop half a mil on a b-school and I'm suppose to laugh at a penis joke?"

Other monkeys replied and said, "Dude, get a clue; the OP was joking."

Sorry, folks. I actually wasn't joking.

Oh yes, my friend. If you go to a top program, you will pay a quarter mil (probably not a half mil) to laugh at penis jokes (typically while drinking $2 beers).

If it's any consolation, the quality of the jokes is markedly better than they were in college. From the world's best and brightest, would we expect anything else?

Comments (80)

In reply to pickle
Best Response
7/16/12
pickle:

Examples of good penis jokes?

Look down.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

7/16/12

How exactly did your B-School cost you 250K without opportunity cost?

-MBP

7/16/12
bankerella:

Looking for early signs of a company in distress? The credit rating downgrade is not a warning; it's the final nail in the coffin. Instead, find out whether they are missing their 2/10 net 30 discounts. The return on that discount is way above most corporations' cost of capital. So if they're missing it, they're either morons or they have cash flow problems.

Interesting - how would one go about finding that out?

Sometimes I go about in pity for myself, and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky
7/16/12

Examples of good penis jokes?

7/16/12

Wait, do ppl actually go into MBA's expecting to learn? I thought everyone knew it was just a BS way to check a BS box to get into a BS industry for a BS job (albeit that pays well, thus the disregard for all the BS).

GBS

7/16/12

I start my MBA in the fall and I don't think i'm going to learn anything mind blowing from a class. I'm going for the networking, rebranding, and the job opportunities. I mean, what did you learn from undergrad that you used at your job? Does that mean you shouldn't go to undergrad?

In reply to happypantsmcgee
7/16/12
happypantsmcgee:
pickle:

Examples of good penis jokes?

Look down.

OHHHHHH SNAP!

7/16/12

Getting an MBA is just for the networking. By you paying $250,000 it's like you paying for a really nice country club membership.

Robert Clayton Dean: What is happening?
Brill: I blew up the building.
Robert Clayton Dean: Why?
Brill: Because you made a phone call.

7/16/12

If you aren't learning, you're wasting your time. That applies to life generally, but especially if you're paying $250k to go to school. Finance is a competitive industry, and someone else will eat your lunch if you skate by doing the minimum. Sure you might have an associate job when you graduate, but what happens when eventually someone expects you to use your brain? Or does everyone here just already know everything there is to know about business?

I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates

7/16/12

I love bankerella's posts. No idea why people bas her so much.

But yeah, look, you don't go to b-school for the classroom learning although I'm sure there are some interesting courses. As everyone else said, it's for the re-branding, exit opportunities, networking, and social experience. Whether or not that's worth the costs is a personal decision.

7/16/12

HBS is only $107k for 2 years... There is no way you spent $250k, and seriously, what did you expect B-School was all about? Come on.

In reply to Going Concern
7/16/12
Going Concern:
bankerella:

Looking for early signs of a company in distress? The credit rating downgrade is not a warning; it's the final nail in the coffin. Instead, find out whether they are missing their 2/10 net 30 discounts. The return on that discount is way above most corporations' cost of capital. So if they're missing it, they're either morons or they have cash flow problems.

Interesting - how would one go about finding that out?

Typically you go to back channels. That bit of data is far more valuable than many people know, and sometimes they'll let it drop for nothing.

7/16/12

Great post.

An MBA sounds a lot like a late night trip to 7/11. If you're 12 beers in and the cashier tells you the bologna sandwich is $250,000, just tell them you're not as hungry as you thought you were.

7/16/12

I like the comment about OPS. I never figured out why my Ops professors had to make a subject that was so stupidly straightforward so unnecessarily complicated.

In reply to BTbanker
7/16/12
Connor:

HBS is only $107k for 2 years... There is no way you spent $250k, and seriously, what did you expect B-School was all about? Come on.

"What they teach you at Harvard Business School" gives a value of about $250k. They factor in the costs of living on campus or renting, books and textbooks, travel expenses, health insurance, utilities, tuition fees, cost of relocation, etc, but the author is married with 2 children, so that factors into it.

HBS gives a cost summary here, http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/costsummary.html and if you're single you will expect to pay 174,400 for 2 years. Add the increase in the CPI/inflation and that will go up marginally also. For someone married and/or who has children, the costs will be over $200k. And that's assuming they don't have designer tastes.

In reply to Aimez
7/16/12
Aimez:
Connor:

HBS is only $107k for 2 years... There is no way you spent $250k, and seriously, what did you expect B-School was all about? Come on.

"What they teach you at Harvard Business School" gives a value of about $250k. They factor in the costs of living on campus or renting, books and textbooks, travel expenses, health insurance, utilities, tuition fees, cost of relocation, etc, but the author is married with 2 children, so that factors into it.

HBS gives a cost summary here, http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/costsummary.html and if you're single you will expect to pay 174,400 for 2 years. Add the increase in the CPI/inflation and that will go up marginally also. For someone married and/or who has children, the costs will be over $200k. And that's assuming they don't have designer tastes.

This is right. Boston is more expensive than smaller towns, and HBS students constantly go out to really nice restaurants, clubs, not to mention frequent weekend trips abroad. Going to germany for oktoberfest, weekend rendezvous in miami or vegas, etc., are quite common.

In reply to Brady4MVP
7/16/12
Brady4MVP:

This is right. Boston is more expensive than smaller towns, and HBS students constantly go out to really nice restaurants, clubs, not to mention frequent weekend trips abroad. Going to germany for oktoberfest, weekend rendezvous in miami or vegas, etc., are quite common.

[yada yada yada jack off motion]

In reply to Brady4MVP
7/16/12
Brady4MVP:
Aimez:
Connor:

HBS is only $107k for 2 years... There is no way you spent $250k, and seriously, what did you expect B-School was all about? Come on.

"What they teach you at Harvard Business School" gives a value of about $250k. They factor in the costs of living on campus or renting, books and textbooks, travel expenses, health insurance, utilities, tuition fees, cost of relocation, etc, but the author is married with 2 children, so that factors into it.

HBS gives a cost summary here, http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/costsummary.html and if you're single you will expect to pay 174,400 for 2 years. Add the increase in the CPI/inflation and that will go up marginally also. For someone married and/or who has children, the costs will be over $200k. And that's assuming they don't have designer tastes.

This is right. Boston is more expensive than smaller towns, and HBS students constantly go out to really nice restaurants, clubs, not to mention frequent weekend trips abroad. Going to germany for oktoberfest, weekend rendezvous in miami or vegas, etc., are quite common.

Frequent weekend trips abroad?
How about: Fungwah bus to NYC --> Friend's Couch

7/16/12

Haven't gone to B-school yet, but I would imagine there is a lot of value in the general knowledge and intuition you gain from those courses. That stuff may not be worthy of keeping in your notebooks (if possible to even write down), but I think it still matters.

7/16/12

I have several recent HBS alum buddies and they all swear by their experiences there. however they did note that they felt woefully under-trained in quant and finance, and (insert your favorite quant school here) can eat them for lunch.

The opportunity for travel is there for everyone, of course. thank you student loans!

where was the best trip you took OP?

7/16/12

I think it's not that hard to blow $250K on a 2 year program.

Tuition: $100K
Books and supplies: $5K
Housing: $50K
Study abroad trips: $25k
Vacations: $10K
Food & drinks: $25K
Transportation: $5K
Hookers & coke: $30K

In reply to ThunderRoad
7/16/12
ThunderRoad:

If you aren't learning, you're wasting your time. That applies to life generally, but especially if you're paying $250k to go to school.

100% agree.

Sometimes I go about in pity for myself, and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky
7/16/12

Ok someone on here has to have gone to HBS and taken bankrella down. Come on, when will we hear this tale.

In reply to keensetofpeepers
7/16/12
keensetofpeepers:

I have several recent HBS alum buddies and they all swear by their experiences there. however they did note that they felt woefully under-trained in quant and finance, and (insert your favorite quant school here) can eat them for lunch.

The opportunity for travel is there for everyone, of course. thank you student loans!

where was the best trip you took OP?

Yup. B-school alums in general like their experience. But every single HBS student and alum I know have said unequivocally that it was the best 2 years of their lives. And this includes people who went to fun state schools for undergrad and had great social lives. Even compared to college, HBS was far more fun.

7/17/12

I demand another example of good penis joke.

Pour some sugar on me.

7/17/12

To be fair, i think it's completely dependent on your lifestyle. $250k is probably at the extreme end, but most people probably hover somewhere around $200-225k. Speaking to a friend who just finished his first year at HBS, he mentioned that he spent $20k on travel alone this past year. I think what drives that cost up is the fact that you're booking things super last minute at some prime travel times.

In reply to yousaygoodbyeandisayhello
7/17/12
yousaygoodbyeandisayhello:

I demand another example of good penis joke.

Look up

In reply to happypantsmcgee
7/17/12
happypantsmcgee:
pickle:

Examples of good penis jokes?

Look down.

You just pulled my 2011 production of SB's in one comment

In reply to bankbank
7/17/12
bankbank:
happypantsmcgee:
pickle:

Examples of good penis jokes?

Look down.

OHHHHHH SNAP!

na'a you didnt!!!!

In reply to HerSerendipity
7/17/12
HerSerendipity:

To be fair, i think it's completely dependent on your lifestyle. $250k is probably at the extreme end, but most people probably hover somewhere around $200-225k. Speaking to a friend who just finished his first year at HBS, he mentioned that he spent $20k on travel alone this past year. I think what drives that cost up is the fact that you're booking things super last minute at some prime travel times.

$20K is actually average by HBS standards. A good friend also finished his first year there, and he spent around $40K on travels alone; this does not include going out and partying in boston.

7/17/12

Friend of a friend is in his Summer Internship post 1st year HBS. He said the first semester was tough, but it got a lot easier.

He's interning for a start up in logistics now...

In reply to Ben Shalom Bernanke
7/18/12
Ben Shalom Bernanke:
happypantsmcgee:
pickle:

Examples of good penis jokes?

Look down.

You just pulled my 2011 production of SB's in one comment

Thats how I live my life bro, excellence.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

7/18/12

Thanks for the post Bankerella, a few questions if you would please

Did you travel much while in school and if so how was that experience?

What would you say was the overall impact on what you are now able to pursue in a career - did you switch focuses, want to go deeper in finance, move to buyside, etc.

Did you meet the man of your dreams in school, and how was the dating/hookup scene in general?

Last what have been some 'non-expected' tracks your classmates have pursued post graduation? Have they gone to weird startups, started hedge funds, vineyards, etc.?

Cheers
frgna

if you like it then you shoulda put a banana on it

7/18/12

Thought the M&A exchanging of intangibles was quite funny... great lessons from b-school indeed

In reply to frgna
7/18/12
frgna:

Thanks for the post Bankerella, a few questions if you would please

Did you travel much while in school and if so how was that experience?

I did a little traveling. Was fine; didn't love it; prefer traveling on my own or with 1-2 handpicked friends. The reason is that in a 5+ person group at a top school, at least one person will be a huge pussy. By "huge pussy" I mean that they will check one or more of the following boxes: chickenshit, germ-phobic, food-phobic, eats exclusively at American food/coffee franchises, can't go out without taking two hours to get dressed, etc.

frgna:

What would you say was the overall impact on what you are now able to pursue in a career - did you switch focuses, want to go deeper in finance, move to buyside, etc.

Hugely impactful. That was the point.

frgna:

Did you meet the man of your dreams in school, and how was the dating/hookup scene in general?

This is the only non-softball question you asked and probably the only one you actually want to know the answer to. B-school's not really where you meet the man of your dreams, though a few do in every class. I wasn't one of those people.

I suppose I would call the dating/hookup scene pretty liquid with low transaction costs. As long as you don't mind things getting weird and incestuous with your close classmates.

frgna:

Last what have been some 'non-expected' tracks your classmates have pursued post graduation? Have they gone to weird startups, started hedge funds, vineyards, etc.?

Every class at a top MBA program has some people that go off and do some amazing, iconic, weird, cool things. But if I get really specific here, it'll out me to somebody somewhere. Would prefer not to do that.

In reply to BTbanker
7/18/12
Connor:

HBS is only $107k for 2 years... There is no way you spent $250k.

Durr, you're totally right. Don't know what I was thinking. Tuition is all that matters; our parents pay for the rest.

Oh wait, no. They don't.

Go to HBS, Connor.

No, seriously. Go apply to HBS. Get in. Rent your apartment. Move there ahead of time. Set up your apartment. Get health insurance. Fill your fridge twice a month. Buy necessary personal tech solutions. Pay dues to join the ten or twelve clubs you care about most. Go to some dinners; make some friends. Purchase your recruiting wardrobe. Go to Oktoberfest. Rent the gigantic costume for that theme party. Go on a trek. Go out and party once every few weeks or so. Climb a big mountain on some other continent. Fly out to see your family, your significant other, etc. Sign up to do the course with the global component that costs the extra $7k. Fly out on your own dime to see if that secret startup is as baller as you think it might be.

Of course, don't forget to pay your rent, power, phone, internet, dry cleaning, storage, parking, car, water/garbage, auto insurance bills. (You do pay those, right? Or do you currently live in a dorm?)

I'm now at December of the first year. You want me to keep going?

In reply to bankerella
7/18/12
bankerella:
Connor:

HBS is only $107k for 2 years... There is no way you spent $250k.

Durr, you're totally right. Don't know what I was thinking. Tuition is all that matters; our parents pay for the rest.

Oh wait, no. They don't.

Go to HBS, Connor.

No, seriously. Go apply to HBS. Get in. Rent your apartment. Move there ahead of time. Set up your apartment. Get health insurance. Fill your fridge twice a month. Buy necessary personal tech solutions. Pay dues to join the ten or twelve clubs you care about most. Go to some dinners; make some friends. Purchase your recruiting wardrobe. Go to Oktoberfest. Rent the gigantic costume for that theme party. Go on a trek. Go out and party once every few weeks or so. Climb a big mountain on some other continent. Fly out to see your family, your significant other, etc. Sign up to do the course with the global component that costs the extra $7k. Fly out on your own dime to see if that secret startup is as baller as you think it might be.

Of course, don't forget to pay your rent, power, phone, internet, dry cleaning, storage, parking, car, water/garbage, auto insurance bills. (You do pay those, right? Or do you currently live in a dorm?)

I'm now at December of the first year. You want me to keep going?

Not sure why but I pictured you giving this speech at a bar getting all sassy with some frat bro. It was funny.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to bankerella
7/18/12
bankerella:
Connor:

HBS is only $107k for 2 years... There is no way you spent $250k.

Durr, you're totally right. Don't know what I was thinking. Tuition is all that matters; our parents pay for the rest.

Oh wait, no. They don't.

Go to HBS, Connor.

No, seriously. Go apply to HBS. Get in. Rent your apartment. Move there ahead of time. Set up your apartment. Get health insurance. Fill your fridge twice a month. Buy necessary personal tech solutions. Pay dues to join the ten or twelve clubs you care about most. Go to some dinners; make some friends. Purchase your recruiting wardrobe. Go to Oktoberfest. Rent the gigantic costume for that theme party. Go on a trek. Go out and party once every few weeks or so. Climb a big mountain on some other continent. Fly out to see your family, your significant other, etc. Sign up to do the course with the global component that costs the extra $7k. Fly out on your own dime to see if that secret startup is as baller as you think it might be.

Of course, don't forget to pay your rent, power, phone, internet, dry cleaning, storage, parking, car, water/garbage, auto insurance bills. (You do pay those, right? Or do you currently live in a dorm?)

I'm now at December of the first year. You want me to keep going?

Ohh I see. So my tuition is ~60k right now. You're saying I should add the $10k I spent on Spring Break to my tuition. I guess we have different views on what to include for school costs.

In reply to happypantsmcgee
7/18/12
happypantsmcgee:

Not sure why but I pictured you giving this speech at a bar getting all sassy with some frat bro. It was funny.

Yeah, I think I gave that speech at a bar to some candidates this past spring. If my hazy memory serves, I believe I delivered it douchily and I think it might have gotten a laugh or two.

This is exactly why I don't want to describe weird stuff that specific classmates did after graduation. I don't really need anonymity as much as I used to, but it does provide a little bit of extra room to lean back and douche with gusto here.

I figure there's probably a few chicks in every class whose styles are similar to mine... but as soon as I start giving out anything that could identify the specific school and class, I'm going to get a PM saying, "Hey, you were in my class at [X]; how's that supposedly-badass job, sorry to hear about your stock price, and hey, by the way, what are you doing fucking with college kids' heads on the internet?"

7/18/12

Bankerella, did you know anyone from your class who actually regretted going to b-school? Just curious since i have yet to meet a single person who regretted going to a top MBA program. They all rave about how fucking awesome it was.

Also it seems like most relationships get broken up in b-school. They call that "black october" or something. I guess when there are so many alpha accomplished attractive people in one setting, fireworks are bound to fly. Pretty intense stuff. My best friend met his gf in the first week of school. Meeting girls in b-school definitely seem easier than trying to meet girls at bars/clubs, the vast majority of whom I have nothing in common with.

In reply to Brady4MVP
7/19/12
Brady4MVP:

Bankerella, did you know anyone from your class who actually regretted going to b-school? Just curious since i have yet to meet a single person who regretted going to a top MBA program. They all rave about how fucking awesome it was.

Also it seems like most relationships get broken up in b-school. They call that "black october" or something. I guess when there are so many alpha accomplished attractive people in one setting, fireworks are bound to fly. Pretty intense stuff. My best friend met his gf in the first week of school. Meeting girls in b-school definitely seem easier than trying to meet girls at bars/clubs, the vast majority of whom I have nothing in common with.

Hmm, I don't know... but I definitely know some people who SHOULD regret getting an MBA.

Example. Girl and guy meet in first semester, they're shacked up/married/committed a year later. The girl doesn't do too well in second year recruiting. Says, "I just didn't see what I was looking for," or "I didn't really hit the recruiting cycle." Bitch, please. You're in b-school; how do you miss the recruiting cycle? Guy gets into PE. Girl moves with him, "continuing the job search" in the new city.

A year later she's a full-time stay-at-home housewife with a 20-hour-a-week startup making stuffed animals, jewelry, or travel reservations. The startup website costs the guy $10k and usually brings in $4k in its first year. Most of her customers are her classmates who either feel sorry for her or want to keep in touch with the guy.

A year after that she's pregnant. Because she has to be. Because otherwise, she's just a top MBA who sells four stuffed animals a week on the internet. But once you're a mom, the story changes to "This top MBA could have had a career in banking or PE but sacrificed it all to spend more time with her child; get off her back, she's an angel, here's a soft-focus photograph of her nuzzling her adorable son Greggie's cheek."

Does she regret the MBA? Nope.

But what do you think of the husband's situation here? Is he more of a baller because he turned a chick with a top MBA into a housewife? Or is he a schmuck for starting up a relationship with a woman who takes her foot off the gas pedal the moment he commits?

In reply to bankerella
7/19/12
bankerella:
Brady4MVP:

Bankerella, did you know anyone from your class who actually regretted going to b-school? Just curious since i have yet to meet a single person who regretted going to a top MBA program. They all rave about how fucking awesome it was.

Also it seems like most relationships get broken up in b-school. They call that "black october" or something. I guess when there are so many alpha accomplished attractive people in one setting, fireworks are bound to fly. Pretty intense stuff. My best friend met his gf in the first week of school. Meeting girls in b-school definitely seem easier than trying to meet girls at bars/clubs, the vast majority of whom I have nothing in common with.

Hmm, I don't know... but I definitely know some people who SHOULD regret getting an MBA.

Example. Girl and guy meet in first semester, they're shacked up/married/committed a year later. The girl doesn't do too well in second year recruiting. Says, "I just didn't see what I was looking for," or "I didn't really hit the recruiting cycle." Bitch, please. You're in b-school; how do you miss the recruiting cycle? Guy gets into PE. Girl moves with him, "continuing the job search" in the new city.

A year later she's a full-time stay-at-home housewife with a 20-hour-a-week startup making stuffed animals, jewelry, or travel reservations. The startup website costs the guy $10k and usually brings in $4k in its first year. Most of her customers are her classmates who either feel sorry for her or want to keep in touch with the guy.

A year after that she's pregnant. Because she has to be. Because otherwise, she's just a top MBA who sells four stuffed animals a week on the internet. But once you're a mom, the story changes to "This top MBA could have had a career in banking or PE but sacrificed it all to spend more time with her child; get off her back, she's an angel, here's a soft-focus photograph of her nuzzling her adorable son Greggie's cheek."

Does she regret the MBA? Nope.

But what do you think of the husband's situation here? Is he more of a baller because he turned a chick with a top MBA into a housewife? Or is he a schmuck for starting up a relationship with a woman who takes her foot off the gas pedal the moment he commits?

I seriously Internet-love you bankerella!! This stuff is gold.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

In reply to bankerella
7/19/12
bankerella:
Brady4MVP:

Bankerella, did you know anyone from your class who actually regretted going to b-school? Just curious since i have yet to meet a single person who regretted going to a top MBA program. They all rave about how fucking awesome it was.

Also it seems like most relationships get broken up in b-school. They call that "black october" or something. I guess when there are so many alpha accomplished attractive people in one setting, fireworks are bound to fly. Pretty intense stuff. My best friend met his gf in the first week of school. Meeting girls in b-school definitely seem easier than trying to meet girls at bars/clubs, the vast majority of whom I have nothing in common with.

Hmm, I don't know... but I definitely know some people who SHOULD regret getting an MBA.

Example. Girl and guy meet in first semester, they're shacked up/married/committed a year later. The girl doesn't do too well in second year recruiting. Says, "I just didn't see what I was looking for," or "I didn't really hit the recruiting cycle." Bitch, please. You're in b-school; how do you miss the recruiting cycle? Guy gets into PE. Girl moves with him, "continuing the job search" in the new city.

A year later she's a full-time stay-at-home housewife with a 20-hour-a-week startup making stuffed animals, jewelry, or travel reservations. The startup website costs the guy $10k and usually brings in $4k in its first year. Most of her customers are her classmates who either feel sorry for her or want to keep in touch with the guy.

A year after that she's pregnant. Because she has to be. Because otherwise, she's just a top MBA who sells four stuffed animals a week on the internet. But once you're a mom, the story changes to "This top MBA could have had a career in banking or PE but sacrificed it all to spend more time with her child; get off her back, she's an angel, here's a soft-focus photograph of her nuzzling her adorable son Greggie's cheek."

Does she regret the MBA? Nope.

But what do you think of the husband's situation here? Is he more of a baller because he turned a chick with a top MBA into a housewife? Or is he a schmuck for starting up a relationship with a woman who takes her foot off the gas pedal the moment he commits?

haha

In reply to cphbravo96
7/19/12
cphbravo96:
bankerella:
Brady4MVP:

Bankerella, did you know anyone from your class who actually regretted going to b-school? Just curious since i have yet to meet a single person who regretted going to a top MBA program. They all rave about how fucking awesome it was.

Also it seems like most relationships get broken up in b-school. They call that "black october" or something. I guess when there are so many alpha accomplished attractive people in one setting, fireworks are bound to fly. Pretty intense stuff. My best friend met his gf in the first week of school. Meeting girls in b-school definitely seem easier than trying to meet girls at bars/clubs, the vast majority of whom I have nothing in common with.

Hmm, I don't know... but I definitely know some people who SHOULD regret getting an MBA.

Example. Girl and guy meet in first semester, they're shacked up/married/committed a year later. The girl doesn't do too well in second year recruiting. Says, "I just didn't see what I was looking for," or "I didn't really hit the recruiting cycle." Bitch, please. You're in b-school; how do you miss the recruiting cycle? Guy gets into PE. Girl moves with him, "continuing the job search" in the new city.

A year later she's a full-time stay-at-home housewife with a 20-hour-a-week startup making stuffed animals, jewelry, or travel reservations. The startup website costs the guy $10k and usually brings in $4k in its first year. Most of her customers are her classmates who either feel sorry for her or want to keep in touch with the guy.

A year after that she's pregnant. Because she has to be. Because otherwise, she's just a top MBA who sells four stuffed animals a week on the internet. But once you're a mom, the story changes to "This top MBA could have had a career in banking or PE but sacrificed it all to spend more time with her child; get off her back, she's an angel, here's a soft-focus photograph of her nuzzling her adorable son Greggie's cheek."

Does she regret the MBA? Nope.

But what do you think of the husband's situation here? Is he more of a baller because he turned a chick with a top MBA into a housewife? Or is he a schmuck for starting up a relationship with a woman who takes her foot off the gas pedal the moment he commits?

I seriously Internet-love you bankerella!! This stuff is gold.

Regards

Couldn't have been said any better...

In reply to cphbravo96
7/19/12
cphbravo96:
bankerella:
Brady4MVP:

Bankerella, did you know anyone from your class who actually regretted going to b-school? Just curious since i have yet to meet a single person who regretted going to a top MBA program. They all rave about how fucking awesome it was.

Also it seems like most relationships get broken up in b-school. They call that "black october" or something. I guess when there are so many alpha accomplished attractive people in one setting, fireworks are bound to fly. Pretty intense stuff. My best friend met his gf in the first week of school. Meeting girls in b-school definitely seem easier than trying to meet girls at bars/clubs, the vast majority of whom I have nothing in common with.

Hmm, I don't know... but I definitely know some people who SHOULD regret getting an MBA.

Example. Girl and guy meet in first semester, they're shacked up/married/committed a year later. The girl doesn't do too well in second year recruiting. Says, "I just didn't see what I was looking for," or "I didn't really hit the recruiting cycle." Bitch, please. You're in b-school; how do you miss the recruiting cycle? Guy gets into PE. Girl moves with him, "continuing the job search" in the new city.

A year later she's a full-time stay-at-home housewife with a 20-hour-a-week startup making stuffed animals, jewelry, or travel reservations. The startup website costs the guy $10k and usually brings in $4k in its first year. Most of her customers are her classmates who either feel sorry for her or want to keep in touch with the guy.

A year after that she's pregnant. Because she has to be. Because otherwise, she's just a top MBA who sells four stuffed animals a week on the internet. But once you're a mom, the story changes to "This top MBA could have had a career in banking or PE but sacrificed it all to spend more time with her child; get off her back, she's an angel, here's a soft-focus photograph of her nuzzling her adorable son Greggie's cheek."

Does she regret the MBA? Nope.

But what do you think of the husband's situation here? Is he more of a baller because he turned a chick with a top MBA into a housewife? Or is he a schmuck for starting up a relationship with a woman who takes her foot off the gas pedal the moment he commits?

I seriously Internet-love you bankerella!! This stuff is gold.

Regards

cosign, awesome

7/19/12

Bankerella, so hot right now. Bankerella.

GBS

In reply to bankerella
7/19/12
bankerella:
Brady4MVP:

Bankerella, did you know anyone from your class who actually regretted going to b-school? Just curious since i have yet to meet a single person who regretted going to a top MBA program. They all rave about how fucking awesome it was.

Also it seems like most relationships get broken up in b-school. They call that "black october" or something. I guess when there are so many alpha accomplished attractive people in one setting, fireworks are bound to fly. Pretty intense stuff. My best friend met his gf in the first week of school. Meeting girls in b-school definitely seem easier than trying to meet girls at bars/clubs, the vast majority of whom I have nothing in common with.

Hmm, I don't know... but I definitely know some people who SHOULD regret getting an MBA.

Example. Girl and guy meet in first semester, they're shacked up/married/committed a year later. The girl doesn't do too well in second year recruiting. Says, "I just didn't see what I was looking for," or "I didn't really hit the recruiting cycle." Bitch, please. You're in b-school; how do you miss the recruiting cycle? Guy gets into PE. Girl moves with him, "continuing the job search" in the new city.

A year later she's a full-time stay-at-home housewife with a 20-hour-a-week startup making stuffed animals, jewelry, or travel reservations. The startup website costs the guy $10k and usually brings in $4k in its first year. Most of her customers are her classmates who either feel sorry for her or want to keep in touch with the guy.

A year after that she's pregnant. Because she has to be. Because otherwise, she's just a top MBA who sells four stuffed animals a week on the internet. But once you're a mom, the story changes to "This top MBA could have had a career in banking or PE but sacrificed it all to spend more time with her child; get off her back, she's an angel, here's a soft-focus photograph of her nuzzling her adorable son Greggie's cheek."

Does she regret the MBA? Nope.

But what do you think of the husband's situation here? Is he more of a baller because he turned a chick with a top MBA into a housewife? Or is he a schmuck for starting up a relationship with a woman who takes her foot off the gas pedal the moment he commits?

Examples like this couple are an anomaly though. About 90% of M7 MBA students are employed upon graduation, and most of the rest find something within 6 months of graduating. You would really have to fuck up badly or have impossibly high standards if you don't have a job more than 6 months after coming out of a M7 program.

Socially I think b-schools are great for people to meet significant others. Most of my friends in school have met their girlfriends, and in all cases they're serious relationships. These are guys who had a tough time meeting girls in major cities either because of a busy work schedule and/or they just couldn't find people they could relate to. At these top schools, there is an implicit understanding that almost everyone there passed a certain threshold of intelligence, accomplishments, work ethic, and ambition. Admissions acts as a powerful signaling and filtering mechanism. Thus, my guy friends don't have to worry that the cute girl in their section is some dummy who only cares about big 10 college football or the latest kim kardashian gossip.

In reply to Brady4MVP
7/19/12

[quote=Brady4MVP

Examples like this couple are an anomaly though. About 90% of M7 MBA students are employed upon graduation, and most of the rest find something within 6 months of graduating. You would really have to fuck up badly or have impossibly high standards if you don't have a job more than 6 months after coming out of a M7 program. [/quote]

Yep. Completely agree. The example I gave was the rare exception to the general rule that people do well out of top programs.

My point is that if you take your foot off the gas pedal afterwards, a top MBA is close to useless... or worse than useless if you (or your long-suffering husband) are still paying it off.

In reply to BTbanker
7/20/12
Connor:

HBS is only $107k for 2 years... There is no way you spent $250k, and seriously, what did you expect B-School was all about? Come on.

Did bankrella said she is from HBS.?...and she is right Tution+ living expenses +FV of your two year salary.=$250k

In reply to energyanalyst
7/20/12
energyanalyst:
Connor:

HBS is only $107k for 2 years... There is no way you spent $250k, and seriously, what did you expect B-School was all about? Come on.

Did bankrella said she is from HBS.?...and she is right Tution+ living expenses +FV of your two year salary.=$250k

Uh, no. The $250 was cash out of pocket.

Not to bang my dick on the table or anything, but two years of my pre-MBA salary was already a good bit more than $250k.

With opportunity cost, the number would be over half a mil, and in my case it was well over the half-mil mark due to the way my life was set up at the time.

The $250k number is tuition + living expenses + all the other stuff you end up paying for. I have already hashed out on other posts what makes it so expensive. In short, most people here either 1) don't comprehend how much life as a full-fledged grownup costs because they haven't paid for it themselves, or 2) don't realize that going to b-school includes the following: rent the place, move there, move back, rent a place for your summer, move there, move back, fly around a lot, eat, drink, buy health insurance, join a ton of clubs, pay a lot of dues, buy a lot of books, etc. They also don't seem to realize that the academic budget is only for 10 months of the year, and that there is usually no way to survive on the budget the school sets in front of you. (Just as one example, if you were to stick to the straight budget, you'd have to give up your cell phone.)

In reply to bankerella
7/20/12
bankerella:
energyanalyst:
Connor:

HBS is only $107k for 2 years... There is no way you spent $250k, and seriously, what did you expect B-School was all about? Come on.

Did bankrella said she is from HBS.?...and she is right Tution+ living expenses +FV of your two year salary.=$250k

Uh, no. The $250 was cash out of pocket.

Not to bang my dick on the table or anything, but two years of my pre-MBA salary was already a good bit more than $250k.

With opportunity cost, the number would be over half a mil, and in my case it was well over the half-mil mark due to the way my life was set up at the time.

The $250k number is tuition + living expenses + all the other stuff you end up paying for. I have already hashed out on other posts what makes it so expensive. In short, most people here either 1) don't comprehend how much life as a full-fledged grownup costs because they haven't paid for it themselves, or 2) don't realize that going to b-school includes the following: rent the place, move there, move back, rent a place for your summer, move there, move back, fly around a lot, eat, drink, buy health insurance, join a ton of clubs, pay a lot of dues, buy a lot of books, etc. They also don't seem to realize that the academic budget is only for 10 months of the year, and that there is usually no way to survive on the budget the school sets in front of you. (Just as one example, if you were to stick to the straight budget, you'd have to give up your cell phone.)

So what $$ u asked during ur placements...do u think its worth spending 250k$ after that.....Do u think any thing would have been different if you dont have a MBA....so what you think is PV of your MBA :)..if u put every thing in .....

In reply to bankerella
7/20/12
bankerella:
energyanalyst:
Connor:

HBS is only $107k for 2 years... There is no way you spent $250k, and seriously, what did you expect B-School was all about? Come on.

Did bankrella said she is from HBS.?...and she is right Tution+ living expenses +FV of your two year salary.=$250k

Uh, no. The $250 was cash out of pocket.

Not to bang my dick on the table or anything, but two years of my pre-MBA salary was already a good bit more than $250k.

With opportunity cost, the number would be over half a mil, and in my case it was well over the half-mil mark due to the way my life was set up at the time.

The $250k number is tuition + living expenses + all the other stuff you end up paying for. I have already hashed out on other posts what makes it so expensive. In short, most people here either 1) don't comprehend how much life as a full-fledged grownup costs because they haven't paid for it themselves, or 2) don't realize that going to b-school includes the following: rent the place, move there, move back, rent a place for your summer, move there, move back, fly around a lot, eat, drink, buy health insurance, join a ton of clubs, pay a lot of dues, buy a lot of books, etc. They also don't seem to realize that the academic budget is only for 10 months of the year, and that there is usually no way to survive on the budget the school sets in front of you. (Just as one example, if you were to stick to the straight budget, you'd have to give up your cell phone.)

B-school is a unique life experience that cannot be easily replicated. You don't want to miss out (FOMO: Fear of Missing Out), so students invariably spend tons of money on parties, travels, career treks, etc. So the total costs is easily $250K+. If I get in next year, I will probably take out around $200K in loans; paying it off will be a bitch but more than worth it.

7/21/12

How can you even get $250K in student loans? I thought the max was $125K.

In reply to mrcrassic
7/21/12
mrcrassic:

How can you even get $250K in student loans? I thought the max was $125K.

There's a limit to government loans but not private. I'm not an expert on this, but the average loans for wharton students this past year was $175K for both years. I'm pretty sure there are people who take out $200K+. HBS used to have a deal with citigroup student loans whereby their students could take out $250K at a special discounted rate. I don't think they do that anymore. If you read Philip Delves Broughton's book on his experience at HBS he talks about the excessive spending and lavish lifestyle of his classmates: frequent weekend trips, showing up to school in a porsche, benz, or BMW, going out to the nicest Boston restaurants and clubs.

In reply to mrcrassic
7/21/12
mrcrassic:

How can you even get $250K in student loans? I thought the max was $125K.

Hahahahahahahahaahaaaah. Ahahahahahaha. Oh, geez, you're killing me. Haha. Ha. Ha. Hm. Okay. Now I'm ready to answer this question.

Stafford loans have limits. Federal direct plus (at the low low price of 7.9% per annum) is limited only by the cost of attendance, which can be further increased by the student's request if they have more expenses than the budget allows for. Isn't that a sweet deal?

Yeah. My student loan payment is considerably bigger than most new homeowners' mortgage payments.

In reply to bankerella
7/21/12
bankerella:
mrcrassic:

How can you even get $250K in student loans? I thought the max was $125K.

Hahahahahahahahaahaaaah. Ahahahahahaha. Oh, geez, you're killing me. Haha. Ha. Ha. Hm. Okay. Now I'm ready to answer this question.

Stafford loans have limits. Federal direct plus (at the low low price of 7.9% per annum) is limited only by the cost of attendance, which can be further increased by the student's request if they have more expenses than the budget allows for. Isn't that a sweet deal?

Yeah. My student loan payment is considerably bigger than most new homeowners' mortgage payments.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't congress just pass a law this past year that restricts the amount of federal direct plus loans? My understanding was that most of the loans you take out for b-school have to come from the banks because there's a limit to how much Uncle Sam will let you borrow.

In reply to Brady4MVP
7/21/12
Brady4MVP:

Correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't congress just pass a law this past year that restricts the amount of federal direct plus loans? My understanding was that most of the loans you take out for b-school have to come from the banks because there's a limit to how much Uncle Sam will let you borrow.

This is from http://www.direct.ed.gov/parent.html as of today:

Direct PLUS Loans
Are unsubsidized loans for graduate/professional students. PLUS loans help pay for education expenses up to the cost of attendance minus all other financial assistance. Interest is charged during all periods.

You can borrow up to the cost of attendance. This includes all the general living expenses in your official student budget. If that's not enough, you can enter into a process with your school whereby you show proof that your personal student budget should be set higher. If they set it higher, you can then borrow up to that from the direct PLUS program. If the school won't increase you any more, THEN you go to private loans. I didn't have to do that, however.

In reply to bankerella
7/22/12
bankerella:
mrcrassic:

How can you even get $250K in student loans? I thought the max was $125K.

Hahahahahahahahaahaaaah. Ahahahahahaha. Oh, geez, you're killing me. Haha. Ha. Ha. Hm. Okay. Now I'm ready to answer this question.

Stafford loans have limits. Federal direct plus (at the low low price of 7.9% per annum) is limited only by the cost of attendance, which can be further increased by the student's request if they have more expenses than the budget allows for. Isn't that a sweet deal?

Yeah. My student loan payment is considerably bigger than most new homeowners' mortgage payments.

All I know is that I hit that limit when I tried to apply for private student loans during my senior year at college. I gues things have changed now?

In reply to mrcrassic
7/23/12
mrcrassic:
bankerella:
mrcrassic:

How can you even get $250K in student loans? I thought the max was $125K.

Hahahahahahahahaahaaaah. Ahahahahahaha. Oh, geez, you're killing me. Haha. Ha. Ha. Hm. Okay. Now I'm ready to answer this question.

Stafford loans have limits. Federal direct plus (at the low low price of 7.9% per annum) is limited only by the cost of attendance, which can be further increased by the student's request if they have more expenses than the budget allows for. Isn't that a sweet deal?

Yeah. My student loan payment is considerably bigger than most new homeowners' mortgage payments.

All I know is that I hit that limit when I tried to apply for private student loans during my senior year at college. I gues things have changed now?

I have no idea when or where you went to college, but I can 100% verify that it is possible to graduate from an MBA program with more than $200k in various types of federal loans. N.B. They are not all subsidized, but they are all federal.

6/19/14

I think B-School is over-priced but it is a necessary evil. Remember that the only reason prices keep rising is because people are still willing to pay them.

"The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer."

6/19/14

Um whoa. I wanna do an MBA. I'm going to have to deal with 2 more years of douchey dick/sex jokes and passive-aggressive getting hit-on from immature/pretentious/dumb/socially-retarded fratty guys???

Dear. Lord. Fuck. Me. SIDEWAYS.

Although I'm sure the guys at HBS aren't dumb...so that's a huge plus in my book.

In reply to -------
6/19/14

Most of my female classmates are pretty happy with the quality of guys, so I don't think you have anything to worry about. Are there pretentious fratty douchebags? Absolutely (rugby club, i'm looking at you bros). But those guys are in the minority. Most guys are smart, driven, accomplished professionals who for the most part have done some really interesting cool stuff (hence, whey they got into a top b-school in the first place). For women, there is probably no better place to meet a potential husband than a top b-school due to the skewed ratio (although this is improving for us guys) and the very high quality of men. Many of my female classmates have said explicitly that they want to meet a husband in school because this is the only time when they will be surrounded by so many top-notch guys in one setting. So yes, you will have plenty to choose from once you're in b-school. Assuming you're reasonably good looking and in shape, it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

6/19/14

Glad you brought this post back, if only to see happypantsmcgee's joke.

I imagine there was some creepy obsessed guy throwing MS at every one of bankerella's replies and probably fapping while he did it.

6/19/14

anyone else find it odd that bankerella was so cautious in giving out info on what her fellow classmates did post-MBA in fear of someone finding out who she is, but then goes into incredible detail about the girl who married the PE guy and started selling stuffed animals? that seems pretty specific....just sayin..

In reply to i hate audit
6/19/14

Yeah what kind of chick gets a Harvard MBA and ends up selling stuffed animals? Like wtf?

In reply to -------
6/19/14

I know quite a few women who did HBS and other top schools who are now doing retail startups. Not stuffed animals but stuff like clothes, sunglasses, etc. Startups are the new craze in b-school.

6/19/14

I'm not suggesting it's worth $250k to go sell stuffed animals, but it sounds more fun then being in banking or consulting forever. But I do think I and the rest of society benefit from people willing to work 80+ hours a week indefinitely. So kudos.

In reply to mbavsmfin
6/19/14

I'm sorry but that's just utter stupidity. Why is there a start-up craze among kids in/after b-school? If you're going to sell basic consumer shit like that, what kind of value would HBS or any post-grad degree really add to your professional endeavour? You go to b-school for the network and if you're top-notch, anything you learn that's academically insightful is a bonus. If you really wanna do a start-up, you'd be much better off taking that 250K and investing it in your business. Don't need an expensive MBA for that.

6/19/14

bschool not worth it if you do not go to a top school

In reply to -------
6/19/14

I agree that it's stupid, but the decline of finance and the rise of tech has fueled this trend at top b-schools. There was a chart on poets&quants which showed the % of students going into tech vs banking, and at Wharton the % is similar while at HBS tech is considerably higher. Of course, banking was never that popular at HBS, as compared to HF, PE, and IM, but the overall trajectory has been a rapid increase in % of students going into tech.

I don't think the MBA curriculum itself adds that much value to running your own firm, aside from teaching basic conceptual frameworks and tools for those who don't come from a business background. The case studies usually deal with traditional businesses and pre-existing markets and hence aren't as relevant to startups. Having said that, being able to bounce ideas off of other smart talented people, working on projects, launching startups with classmates, potentially meeting a co-founder, and brand credibility, are all reasons why more entrepreneurs are heading to b-school.

6/19/14

Uncle Sam paid for my education + living, its amazing how much more flexibility and cash you have in your pocket when you aren't amortizing a massive loan.

In reply to mbaer2012
6/19/14

mbaer2012:

I start my MBA in the fall and I don't think i'm going to learn anything mind blowing from a class. I'm going for the networking, rebranding, and the job opportunities. I mean, what did you learn from undergrad that you used at your job? Does that mean you shouldn't go to undergrad?

No, but at undergrad, the opportunity cost is far lower. How much will someone pay a kid without a college degree on average?

6/19/14

Epic thread. Not sure why @"bankerella" is getting shit on so much. Very motivational for studying the GMAT.

6/19/14

Tech post-MBA is cool. Selling shit on the internet isn't tech though. I think you got to be retarded to get an HBS MBA and do that (unless obviously you do all of this for fun and are loaded anyhow).

6/19/14
In reply to Ben Shalom Bernanke
6/19/14

Ben Shalom Bernanke:

bankerella:
Brady4MVP:

Bankerella, did you know anyone from your class who actually regretted going to b-school? Just curious since i have yet to meet a single person who regretted going to a top MBA program. They all rave about how fucking awesome it was.

Also it seems like most relationships get broken up in b-school. They call that "black october" or something. I guess when there are so many alpha accomplished attractive people in one setting, fireworks are bound to fly. Pretty intense stuff. My best friend met his gf in the first week of school. Meeting girls in b-school definitely seem easier than trying to meet girls at bars/clubs, the vast majority of whom I have nothing in common with.

Hmm, I don't know... but I definitely know some people who SHOULD regret getting an MBA.

Example. Girl and guy meet in first semester, they're shacked up/married/committed a year later. The girl doesn't do too well in second year recruiting. Says, "I just didn't see what I was looking for," or "I didn't really hit the recruiting cycle." Bitch, please. You're in b-school; how do you miss the recruiting cycle? Guy gets into PE. Girl moves with him, "continuing the job search" in the new city.

A year later she's a full-time stay-at-home housewife with a 20-hour-a-week startup making stuffed animals, jewelry, or travel reservations. The startup website costs the guy $10k and usually brings in $4k in its first year. Most of her customers are her classmates who either feel sorry for her or want to keep in touch with the guy.

A year after that she's pregnant. Because she has to be. Because otherwise, she's just a top MBA who sells four stuffed animals a week on the internet. But once you're a mom, the story changes to "This top MBA could have had a career in banking or PE but sacrificed it all to spend more time with her child; get off her back, she's an angel, here's a soft-focus photograph of her nuzzling her adorable son Greggie's cheek."

Does she regret the MBA? Nope.

But what do you think of the husband's situation here? Is he more of a baller because he turned a chick with a top MBA into a housewife? Or is he a schmuck for starting up a relationship with a woman who takes her foot off the gas pedal the moment he commits?

haha

WOW! @"Bankerella", I never thought of it that way. Maybe I knew it subconsciously when I resolved to start serious relationships only with models and actresses. Scientists and MDs (specialists), and winter Olympic athletes are my back up plan.

Matrick:

[in reply to Tony Snark"]Why aren't you blogging for WSO and become the date doctor for WSO? There seems to be demand.

BatMasterson:

[in reply to Tony Snark's dating tip]
Sensible advice.

6/20/14

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