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If you have to pay money to get an internship, I think that's enough said that you are not getting a normal, high quality finance position. Just imagine what the employer(s) think of the intern(s) who pay to work for them. You don't want to be that guy...
I don't think you know the program. Of course Im not going to expect to intern at a BB bank but this program (assuming one's admitted) get you a sureshot into a boutqiue with SURE modeling experience. I saw that most of its program interns end up at Kerburn Rose IBD in NYC, and although I don't know the firm, based on their linkedin they seem to get solid transactional experience
Really?
I see a bunch of Kerburn Rose people on LinkedIn, but it seems super shady. Most of them just have Kerburn Rose on their resumes.
lol, solid troll
Why don't you buy a financial modeling course and network for an internship? It costs at most $13,801 less than this.
Pay to work...lol.
Anyone actually worked here in the past?
Paying for an internship is for people who did not get anything the normal way. If you can afford it go for it if you did not get any real internship offers.
I feel it necessary to disagree here. I honestly can't see any situation whereby something like NYSF is a good option.
This is New York City. You CAN find an internship here at ANY time of year. Do some legwork. And if you don't have the technical skills to succeed just yet, pick up a book and learn them.
There is absolutely nothing that you gain from NYSF that you wouldn't pick up from reading Rosenbaum & Pearl's IB book and subsequently applying your skills in an interview to land something.
And here's my final point to the OP: from an economic perspective, don't you see a problem with the fact that every student that buys the NYSF training gets an internship? Do you really think that it's a legitimate firm?
From what I've heard, not everyone who applies to NYSF gets admitted to their internship program. For the regular courses though, it seems open to all
courses in the morning, intern in the evening.
Hey theamazinbil, have you taken NYSF in the past?
nope. that info was on their website. I would never do this.
What type of applicants are usually in NYSF, other than really rich kids?
I don't think that paying for an internship is very smart. As someone pointed out, you are in NYC, you can find something if you put in the effort. As for anyone who still thinks that this is the way to go, I can offer a top-notch modeling course and a remote internship working on REAL Chinese transactions, all for the cheap price of $11,500. Paid via PayPal, please.
Oh, I also have some beachfront property in Arizona for sale, in case anyone is looking...
Lol gtfo.
OP, for $10,000 flat, here's what I'm offering: 10 hours of training on DCF, comps, transaction, M&A, and LBO modeling, all done by a real industry insider (me). In addition, I've got recent materials from BB's that I probably shouldn't share, but will send your way anyway as part of an internship.
And if you're still not convinced: I take Western Union.
Don't trust this guy!!!! Everyone knows that PayPal is much more credible for REAL MODELING TRAINING than Western Union. Pah.
Don't trust this guy!!!! Everyone knows that PayPal is much more credible for REAL MODELING TRAINING than Western Union. Pah.
How much for that beachfront property? I hear it's a limited market, so I'm willing to pay top dollar.
Have your people call my people, we'll figure something out.
Jokes on you bro:
http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/3000/Beach-Front-Property--3149.jpg
*sarcasm
ah snap ;)
"So Mr. Brownite, I see you've interned before. Can you tell me about your experience there?"
"Sure, well after paying $14,000 for the internship I kn-"
"DING!!!"
What the fuck is Kerburn Rose?
Kassad you have a point but some college freshman won't get any offers so if they can afford it why not?
My practical argument here is that there are better things they can do. Not being able to get an internship is a sign that you don't yet qualify for something, and as a freshman, that's okay. You should use your time to meet people, learn material on your own, do some travel (freshman year is a perfect time to study abroad IMO), learn a language, and generally develop yourself. Freshman year is the only time that you are actually free in college; if you can do an internship, great, otherwise it isn't a huge loss.
Not to mention the shady nature of Kerburn Rose. You're better off doing a case competition sponsored by a recognized brand than something like this.
My not-so-practical argument is the implication that paying for an internship has on the OP's career and his own mentality. The sooner he gets used to the grind of what finance is - hustling for interviews and working hard to be an asset at your job - the better off he'll be. Paying $14K for an internship will only delay his development in that area, and it'll drain $14K out of his bank account.
Here's an example of something he could do with $14K that would be better than this NYSF stuff:
There are just too many options to count. The main takeaway here is that some kids pay less than that amount for a year of college tuition, so how can one justify paying so much for this? You can learn the material from a $50 book, so is the internship really what you're paying for? Nobody should pay $14K for an internship. That is simply absurd.
$14k is a ton of money for most people but for some kids that could not be that much, esp many of these chinese int'l kids in my school. I can see Kassad's viewpoint that you would be borderline retarded to spend 14 grand on NYSF from a financial standpoint but assuming that money is not a concern, it seems like a great freshmen/sophomore summer internship in my opinion.
I mean the training is pretty useless (you can learn that on your own with BIWS/WSP) but it's really about the internship - and assuming you actually do get legit deal experience, that can be a HUGE help when you enter Junior SA recruiting. And like it's mentioned in the forum, having "Investment banking summer analyst" followed by details involving real deal experience can make a huge difference in getting your resume noticed.
I do agree with Kassad's point that you would be skipping out on the hustling and grind aspect of finance, but really the argument is akin to the kid who works his ass off to get into Harvard, and the kid who just donated $2m to get into Harvard. At the end of the day, they're both at friggin Harvard and noone gives a shit how they got there.
I do agree with both Kassad and monkeyleverage but if someone wants to "waste" $14k on such training let them do that. They recruit even at my non-target school which says something about their marketing skills.
I heard you have to take the Street of Walls Test to get in.
Just an fyi - among those who pick resumes for my school, there are several of us that do a quick google search when anyone claims to have an "investment banking" internship at a no-name firm. If I ever concluded someone flagrantly waste money and pay for an internship (rather than do one on their own merits), I'd frankly toss their resume away. So there are potential losses outside the 14k you just wasted.
If you go to a non-target school, you were much better off cold-calling local boutiques, applying to general finance internships, applying to research positions at your school (this can be a great networking opportunity too!) or even just doing something colorful in your life.
NYSF does require that you go through an interview process in order to participate in the program.
1.) I know people who have gone through the summer program of NYSF. It gives you good financial modeling training, and the internship is with one of a few different boutique banks in NY that NYSF works with. The internship is solid and gives lots of modeling and deal exposure (small deal size though).
2.) You take class for a couple hours in the morning and the internship is for the rest of the day. When added to the internship hours you are working/training approx. 80 hrs a week.
This program is worth it for anyone who needs banking exposure and can't get it through traditional means, or someone who is looking for a good training program that includes applying that to live deals. The people in the program are typically not doing their "penultimate year" internship. It is mostly sophomores/seniors and then a couple of juniors, along with a few MBA/pre-MBA internship guys (/girls).
NYSF has a high success rate at placing students in IB jobs post-participating in the program. Also it isn't that expensive when you consider that the alternative for most would be summer classes at college, which would cost approximately the same. Also if you are really worried about the cost, many colleges/MBA programs will help with the expense of an unpaid internship and training through scholarships and other funding.
Hi Dave,
Since you clearly work for the company or one of it's associates - let me just point out a blatant and verifiable lie from what you've described above.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Kerburn+Rose+linkedin+analyst
Of the dozens of people that have paid to work at your bull shit company, don't you find it amusing that despite having otherwise dazzling financial experience, not a single one has managed to secure and investment banking position (I'm not counting other finance positions) at a reputable firm(say anything in Vault's top 50)?
Hi Sav,
I don't work for the company or any of its affiliates. Most of the jobs that people get out of the NYSF program are boutique firms (not everyone, some go to non-IBs), but I know of a couple that have been placed in BB and MM shops (yes in the top 50). Also, many of the people on that search haven't even graduated college yet (it is a relatively new program). I'm not trying to convince anyone to participate or not participate in the program. As in my first post I am merely answering OP's questions about the program, and pointing out that it is a solid option for someone who wants financial modeling training and work experience in IB that can't get an internship through traditional means.
Sign me up!!
Sav destroyed any hope for these aspiring Kerburn Rose interns.
Thank you.
Actually, quite a few people who participated in the program remove this internship from their LinkedIn page for, well... the reasons you mentioned above.
I know that a lot of members on these boards have been shitting on NYSF and Kerburn Rose, especially Sav, who says this internship is for losers due to his proclaimed 4 reasons:
1.) Apparently according to him, the deals are "fake" (basically everyone there is just role-playing) 2.) Anyone who dishes out the cash will be admitted 100% 3.) Placement of analysts who've gone through this program is pathetic. 4.) You are not "hustling" for the job, and therefore, you do not deserve to be in banking
I actually believed him... until I spoke to 4 people who took the program. In this post, I'm here to tell you the truth behind the program, because I feel like it's being misrepresented especially by certain users. The main points I got from the program are listed below:
1.) The deals are real. The website is www(dot)kerburn(dot)us and you may check them out yourself. The founder of NYSF has a personal connection with the partner at Kerburn Rose - this is to ensure that interns will be working on actual deals and doing financial modeling and pitchbooks, instead of the administrative work that most interns end up doing at no-name boutiques (I can personally attest to this). Again there are no "fake" deals created just for NYSF - Kerburn Rose is a standalone boutique that existed before NYSF; they merely have a partnership.
2.) You do go through an interview process. You interview with the boutique first like any other interview and if you don't make it, you get dropped. I'm not sure how AnEx worked previously but it's not as simple as just a cash down payment and guaranteed internship experience anymore. If you don't pass the interview you will be rejected for the internship portion of the program (likewise, anyone who pays can take the modeling training portion, just not the internship)
3.) Before talking about placement, there is one thing that needs to be made clear - there are generally two types of applicants in NYSF - those who have already graduated, and those who are still students, and merely using Kerburn Rose as their freshmen or sophomore summer internship. For those who have graduated (which was the majority of applicants that NYSF admitted in its beginnings), yes their end results are pretty bad and it's not that surprising - they don't have traditional recruiting (SA/FT) that students have access to; instead they fall under the "lateral hire" category - good luck trying to "lateral" in if you have minimal work experience even as an ivy league graduate. However those who interned there as students and leveraged it for Junior SA recruiting - their results have been very impressive.
I'm not going to post Linkedin profiles in order to protect their privacy but understand that NYSF isn't meant to be the "end goal"; it's meant to be a MEANS to an end.
4.) The fact that you're not doing the traditional "hustling" for the internship seems to be the main issue. Of course noone likes the kid who gets admitted to an ivy league school via legacy, as compared to the kid from an under-privileged background who worked his ass off to get there. This area is subjective and there will be certain people who will hold this stigma against you (like Sav) but based on the 4 people I've talked to (3 are at BB IBD and 1 is doing Junior SA recruiting right now) not many people care, and are usually more interested on what you actually did on the job, than as to how you got the internship.
I hope this clears up some misunderstandings for prospective applicants. With that said, I would never be able to attend this program (I don't have the money) but to the freshmen and sophomores who are looking to get a leg up, it's not the "boiler room" that some users try to portray it as.
Hi Sav, I just joined WSO because i was doing my research on NYSF and I found this discussion. Seriously, i'm 100% agree with your points on the NYSF. However, let me explain to you my situation. I'm frech Canadian and actually studying in a business school called HEC Montréal in Montréal and I want to work in New York. As you probably noticed, you've probably never heard of my school even if its a very good business school from Paris (but its not well known in the US because its a french business school, you can google it and u will find that its actually well ranked among world's top business school). Plus, since i'm Canadian, I have no legal work right in the US until an employer sponsor my work Visa (which is quite easy to obtain for canadians but still i need a job offer first, so i cannot go for most of the paid internship because employers dont sponsor work Visa for interns)...That's why i found the program interesting for me since i'm from an "international background" and i've never studied in the US and i have no US work Visa... I don't have a lot work experience neither, but i have a very strong GPA (3,8/4) and i'm doing equity analyst and portfolio management for a funds at school with 5M$ real money given by my school's sponsor.
I'm really looking for some useful advise here. So it would be appreaciate if you can tell me, knowing my particular situation, if this program is worth it or if there are more interesting alternatives for canadian undergrad student who want to work in finance in NYC
Despite the paragraph of effort. I'm going to say that:
Are all much greater things for mankind than the ability to pay for access to an internship that no one has ever heard of before.
:popcorn:
Holy jeez, Sav deserves SBs for his thorough bashing of NYSF (which, honestly, is much needed),
This is hilarious. Everyone should do their homework before working for some of these boutique shops, things can get pretty shady.
I just paid $14,000 to enroll in this program. I will be getting real life deal experience while all of you slave away fetching coffee and making photocopies in random boutiques which you "hustled" for. You may laugh at my investment now but when I land that BB IBD SA offer you because 1.) I actually have legit modeling experience and 2.) therefore know more about the whole IBD process than you do, we'll see who gets the last laugh.
Sav who knows, I might even end up in your group. Don't be too surprised when I end up being way ahead of the curve compared to the other SAs haha.
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