6 Free Financial Modeling Lessons...and More.

Enter your e-mail below to get our new Free Modeling Tutorials ($200+ Value).

< previous | next >

CFA for Real Estate. Worth getting???
 

CashIsKing100's picture
IA
(Monkey, 56
 
Points)
 on 8/13/12 at 11:18pm

Since the prior set of posts discussed whether or not an MBA in real estate would be beneficial for career transitioners, I figured it would be appropriate to broach a similar topic, what about CFA exam candidates and charter holders?

Long story short, I work in wealth management now (aka it's really sales), am a CPA with 5years of public accounting experience (2 years within an audit real estate rotation in a top 6 firm), and want to transition to a CRE deal making team at one of the top BB firms. Eventually I'd like to run my own portfolio or be part of a REIT investment management team. How can I make the transition, learn more about modeling and not have to spend 100k in MBA tuition. Would the CFA be a smart alternative to an MBA?

Thanks.

"Their analysts, they don't know preferred stock from live stock, alright."
Going Concern's picture

CFA is generally good if you

(King Kong, 1,871
 
Points)
 on 8/14/12 at 12:23am

CFA is generally good if you work in any sort of investment role (HF, AM, ER, etc). It does have several chapters on real estate, which serve to give a pretty good broad overview and knowledge of all the basics, but it's not something that goes very deep into real estate by any means.

If you're more interested in real estate specifically, perhaps consider a masters in real estate - I think at least NYU has a program for that, and it's going to be much cheaper than an MBA.

http://www.scps.nyu.edu/academics/departments/scha...

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

GetOnTop's picture

So just for level 1 you'd be

AM
(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 8/14/12 at 12:39am

So just for level 1 you'd be looking at 200+ hours of studying, and it gets worse from there. I think you could do a lot better just putting those hours to use trying to network with people in the real estate industry. Like the poster above said, the curriculum doesn't get too deep into real estate.

prospie's picture

I know some smart people in

(King Kong, 1,720
 
Points)
 on 8/14/12 at 10:17am

I know some smart people in real estate who have done/are doing the CFA and have nothing but good things to say about it.

Having said that, you already have a CPA. I know this doesn't sound too glamorous, but wouldn't the finance/accounting side of a real estate company (for starters, at least) be the path of least resistance?

Financial Modeling Training
Guide to Finance Interviews
Banking Resume

REValuation's picture

https://www.linkedin.com/answ

RE
 
Points)
 on 8/14/12 at 3:21pm

https://www.linkedin.com/answers/administration/co...

Depends on where you want to start out/end up. I've asked myself the same question and I think what GoingConcern said hits the nail on the head. A CFA isn't needed in the majority of real estate positions, but if your going to work on the portfolio level I'm sure it would be very useful...just ALOT of time to spend.

re-ib-ny's picture

In my personal opinion, the

PE
(Gorilla, 690
 
Points)
 on 8/14/12 at 3:10pm

In my personal opinion, the CFA is a grossly over-pursued designation. It's best use is for retail-facing financial professionals who focus on securities. This means primarily equity and bond research, private wealth management, and some asset managers like mutual funds. It's been adopted, however, by a slew of finance industry hopefuls looking for roles in everything from banking to private equity to hedge funds (it is of some limited use to the latter), and now apparently real estate. Most hope that it will be a shortcut past the MBA, which it is not.

I cannot recall having ever met anyone in real estate private equity, real estate investment banking, or REIT management that had a CFA designation--at least no one who advertised it by their name. I think based on your intentions, you will find the CFA to be a waste of time and money.

For the record, I have neither a CFA nor an MBA. I can't hold myself out to be an expert on this subject, but figured I would cast my (hopefully credible) negative vote amid what seems to be a preponderance of support for the CFA on this thread.

In reply to re-ib-ny
Going Concern's picture

re-ib-ny: In my personal

(King Kong, 1,871
 
Points)
 on 8/14/12 at 3:17pm
re-ib-ny:

In my personal opinion, the CFA is a grossly over-pursued designation. It's best use is for retail-facing financial professionals who focus on securities. This means primarily equity and bond research, private wealth management, and some asset managers like mutual funds. It's been adopted, however, by a slew of finance industry hopefuls looking for roles in everything from banking to private equity to hedge funds (it is of some limited use to the latter), and now apparently real estate. Most hope that it will be a shortcut past the MBA, which it is not.

not even sure where to begin with this...i guess i'll sum up my view of your comment with one word: specious

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

huanleshalemei's picture

I believe CFA is worse than

(Gorilla, 546
 
Points)
 on 8/14/12 at 8:27pm

I believe CFA is worse than MBA for a career in RE. Save the time (very likely >800 hrs) for networking.
I only know one RE banking MD has a CFA, but he obtained it way before he entered RE.

The Auto Show

REID's picture

The CAIA has a decently sized

(Chimp, 3
 
Points)
 on 8/15/12 at 12:18pm

The CAIA has a decently sized section focusing on real estate. It only has two levels/exams, which means less time invested, and is more specific to alternatives investment. Seems like this would be a worthwhile designation in real estate finance/investments...thoughts?

talkaboutit's picture

Would also appreciate any

RE
 
Points)
 on 8/16/12 at 12:03am

Would also appreciate any feedback on the above question.

CashIsKing100's picture

Thanks for everyones input.

IA
(Monkey, 56
 
Points)
 on 8/17/12 at 12:08am

Thanks for everyones input. As for myself, I am looking to eventually get onto the portfolio level. However, at this stage in our economic recovery, even if ur a great sell of yourself in interviews, how can you get a employer to take you on knowing you have limited experience?

I'd like to spend my time networking. However, besides Rebny and my college alumni, where else can you look to start??

"Their analysts, they don't know preferred stock from live stock, alright."

In reply to re-ib-ny
RE Capital Markets's picture

re-ib-ny: In my personal

RE
(Gorilla, 658
 
Points)
 on 8/17/12 at 10:07pm
re-ib-ny:

In my personal opinion, the CFA is a grossly over-pursued designation. It's best use is for retail-facing financial professionals who focus on securities. This means primarily equity and bond research, private wealth management, and some asset managers like mutual funds. It's been adopted, however, by a slew of finance industry hopefuls looking for roles in everything from banking to private equity to hedge funds (it is of some limited use to the latter), and now apparently real estate. Most hope that it will be a shortcut past the MBA, which it is not.

I cannot recall having ever met anyone in real estate private equity, real estate investment banking, or REIT management that had a CFA designation--at least no one who advertised it by their name. I think based on your intentions, you will find the CFA to be a waste of time and money.

For the record, I have neither a CFA nor an MBA. I can't hold myself out to be an expert on this subject, but figured I would cast my (hopefully credible) negative vote amid what seems to be a preponderance of support for the CFA on this thread.

Agreed.

CFA is relevant in only one sector of the finance business - asset management (equity research, credit analysis, portfolio management type roles).

If you wish to pursue the designation, do it because you want to gain knowledge of investing, not because you think it will help your career (it wont).

Man made money, money never made the man

In reply to RE Capital Markets
CashIsKing100's picture

Gorilla, you make a good

IA
(Monkey, 56
 
Points)
 on 8/19/12 at 11:21pm

[quote=RE Capital Markets]

re-ib-ny:

Agreed.

CFA is relevant in only one sector of the finance business - asset management (equity research, credit analysis, portfolio management type roles).

If you wish to pursue the designation, do it because you want to gain knowledge of investing, not because you think it will help your career (it wont).

Gorilla, you make a good point on how the CFA is a relevant for asset management. But at the end of the day, isn't everything you do done so it will help out your career? Nobody sits through training or goes to college or gets an MBA for any purpose then then helping out your career.

With that said, if you were in my shoes, and hypothetically you wanted to network but with no initial sets of contacts, what resources, groups or events would you look to join and or research?

Thanks,

"Their analysts, they don't know preferred stock from live stock, alright."

In reply to CashIsKing100
RE Capital Markets's picture

I am just saying that it wont

RE
(Gorilla, 658
 
Points)
 on 8/19/12 at 11:38pm

[quote=CashIsKing100]

RE Capital Markets:
re-ib-ny:

Agreed.

CFA is relevant in only one sector of the finance business - asset management (equity research, credit analysis, portfolio management type roles).

If you wish to pursue the designation, do it because you want to gain knowledge of investing, not because you think it will help your career (it wont).

Gorilla, you make a good point on how the CFA is a relevant for asset management. But at the end of the day, isn't everything you do done so it will help out your career? Nobody sits through training or goes to college or gets an MBA for any purpose then then helping out your career.

With that said, if you were in my shoes, and hypothetically you wanted to network but with no initial sets of contacts, what resources, groups or events would you look to join and or research?

Thanks,

I am just saying that it wont help your real estate career aspirations.

Honestly - if I were in your shoes, I would just stay at your current postion. It is *extremely* difficult to break into RE without prior experience nowadays, mostly because their is so much unemployed talent "on the sidelines" and enough unsatisfied talent from other companies that firms like mine could poach. Again, just trying to be honest.

Man made money, money never made the man

sk8247365's picture

A little surpirsed that

PE
(Gorilla, 528
 
Points)
 on 8/20/12 at 10:54am

A little surpirsed that everyone is in such agreement that the CFA is useless for a career in RE. I agree that it is more "relevant" in AM.. But to say this:

"If you wish to pursue the designation, do it because you want to gain knowledge of investing, not because you think it will help your career (it wont)."

Is a little harsh.

Case in point:
Knew a team of RE professionals that over the past five years broke up their company and went to other gigs.

CFA #1 went to a start up REPE firm in CA.
CFA #2 was headhunted to a 9B AUM firm to work in their opportunistic RE division.

The rest? Who the fuck knows.

My point is that the CFA opens doors. Maybe it was the people in this case, but I bet it helped. Sure, if you are at a small repe at the analyst level and know you will just get promotion after promotion and make it to the top, then hell, even an MBA is not necessary. But I know that in the small RE world where relationships, background, and firm reputation matter, there is not a team out there would not add a CFA to their brass.

The CFA designation does not replace and MBA. Why? Because you are paying the $200k for the MBAs recruiting channels. Blackstone will go to Wharton and recruit on campus. If you have a CFA you'll be in the same need-to-network position you were in before. Albeit, they may be more likely to add you to the team than an undergrad degree + 6 years RE experience.

To answer the OP question, a CFA will be far less likely to help you break into RE than just networking or even an MBA (read: recruiting channels, not educational benefits) because this is very true:

It is *extremely* difficult to break into RE without prior experience nowadays, mostly because their is so much unemployed talent "on the sidelines"...

econcomputingCRE's picture

I'm not as big of a dog as

(Baboon, 139
 
Points)
 on 8/20/12 at 11:20am

I'm not as big of a dog as some other people in this thread, but I have seen it pursued and know of people pursuing right now that are in the real estate game. I just heard of someone at Verde that is pursuing it.

I personally think that from the 1000's of opinions I've heard on the CFA for something like CRE finance, it certainly can't hurt you, and it may indeed help you, even if it isn't the best/easiest way to get where you want to go.

In reply to sk8247365
RE Capital Markets's picture

sk8247365: "If you wish to

RE
(Gorilla, 658
 
Points)
 on 8/20/12 at 11:39am

Man made money, money never made the man

In reply to huanleshalemei
Oreos's picture

huanleshalemei: I believe CFA

ST
(Neanderthal, 2,562
 
Points)
 on 8/20/12 at 11:48am
In reply to RE Capital Markets
Going Concern's picture

RE Capital Markets: FWIW, I

(King Kong, 1,871
 
Points)
 on 8/20/12 at 1:15pm

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

chrisjr's picture

2 CEOs (one brokerage and one

RE
 
Points)
 on 8/20/12 at 4:15pm
In reply to Oreos
huanleshalemei's picture

Oreos: huanleshalemei: I

(Gorilla, 546
 
Points)
 on 8/20/12 at 7:40pm

The Auto Show

In reply to huanleshalemei
Going Concern's picture

huanleshalemei: And I took

(King Kong, 1,871
 
Points)
 on 8/20/12 at 7:49pm

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

In reply to Going Concern
huanleshalemei's picture

Going

(Gorilla, 546
 
Points)
 on 8/20/12 at 7:53pm

The Auto Show

In reply to huanleshalemei
Going Concern's picture

huanleshalemei: I decided to

(King Kong, 1,871
 
Points)
 on 8/20/12 at 7:57pm

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

CashIsKing100's picture

I think its time we created a

IA
(Monkey, 56
 
Points)
 on 8/20/12 at 11:54pm

"Their analysts, they don't know preferred stock from live stock, alright."

econcomputingCRE's picture

I know a person who knows a

(Baboon, 139
 
Points)
 on 8/27/12 at 5:59pm
liquidpaper's picture

I would say it mainly depends

(Chimp, 1
 
Points)
 on 8/29/12 at 11:25pm
atwoodt's picture

Agree with liquidpaper; it

RE
(Baboon, 104
 
Points)
 on 8/31/12 at 4:43pm
Relinquis's picture

CashIsKing100: [...]How can I

RE
(Neanderthal, 2,186
 
Points)
 on 9/3/12 at 8:51pm

relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.

Relinquis's picture

Also, in order to learn RE

RE
(Neanderthal, 2,186
 
Points)
 on 9/3/12 at 8:56pm

relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.

LloydRE's picture

GetOnTop: So just for level 1

(Chimp, 2
 
Points)
 on 2/23/13 at 11:01am
In reply to re-ib-ny
LloydRE's picture

I am joining this

(Chimp, 2
 
Points)
 on 2/23/13 at 1:08pm
DCDepository's picture

If you get the CFA charter

O
(Gorilla, 516
 
Points)
 on 2/23/13 at 6:24pm
maddux's picture

HASVING A CFA WILL NOT GET

(Monkey, 45
 
Points)
 on 3/2/13 at 12:35pm
In reply to maddux
SureThing's picture

maddux: HASVING A CFA WILL

RE
(Baboon, 161
 
Points)
 on 3/7/13 at 9:56pm
Zevaka's picture

I am surprised that this

(Monkey, 60
 
Points)
 on 3/10/13 at 5:51am
In reply to Zevaka
DCDepository's picture

Zevaka: I am surprised that

O
(Gorilla, 516
 
Points)
 on 3/10/13 at 11:58am
sbguy's picture

I earned it. I would not

(Chimp, 8
 
Points)
 on 3/14/13 at 6:32pm
NYC430's picture

The CFA will only matter if

(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 3/17/13 at 3:40pm
paul029's picture

MBA in real estate is really

(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 3/22/13 at 8:49am
Swede's picture

Paul029, can you please stop

CF
(Monkey, 58
 
Points)
 on 3/22/13 at 12:48pm
In reply to Going Concern
Izzy's picture

Going Concern: CFA is

 
Points)
 on 3/22/13 at 1:06pm
CRE's picture

I would absolutely not get a

RE
(King Kong, 1,096
 
Points)
 on 4/2/13 at 8:38pm

See my WSO Blog | See my AMA Thread

murrill08's picture

It is worth getting and many

(Chimp, 3
 
Points)
 on 4/4/13 at 6:28am
In reply to CRE
CivilServant's picture

CRE: I would absolutely not

(Baboon, 156
 
Points)
 on 4/4/13 at 6:46am

6 Free Financial Modeling Lessons...Straight to Your Inbox.

Confirm your name and e-mail below to get our best tips

Monkey Stats
Account information
We respect your Name and E-mail privacy. By joining you accept our terms of service.