I think I'm about to get fired
After working 3 weeks with only 1 day off and pulling ridiculous hours (worked til 6am yesterday), I told a senior analyst that what he wanted to do was a "fucking waste of time." I did it, but have some signs that I'm getting the boot. I walked into HR yesterday to ask for today off (just got a project in yesterday) and she looked at me with this dreaded look, like I had found out already. Next, I get an email from my boss saying I need to brief one of the higher ups on the only real project that only I am working on, when its not due for over a month. Next, I asked him if he wanted me to do work on this project that I know is far out in the future, and didn't get a response. I think I'm about to be fired. It could be the lack of sleep talking but I'm convinced I'm getting booted on Friday.
Wow... sucks man. Any way to turn it around? Do you even want to turn it around?
Rough job market out there man.... Not gonna be easy to find a new gig.
Suck it up kid, fight through it.
Sounds like you deserve it, to be honest.
You told a senior analyst (meaning somebody a year or two ahead of you?) that something was a waste of time? I don't think they'd fire you for that. Unless that analyst is really sensitive/has a problem with you, I don't think he would even mention it to anyone. Even then, I don't see anyone acting on it. If you've been killing it the past few weeks, I think you're fine.
Not to aggravate your sleep deprivation induced paranoia, but if you are at a bank that's doing mass layoffs, you could potentially get fired. But even then, it's not often the guy working until 6am gets fired (or analysts in general). Good luck.
I'd say that kind of push back after only several weeks on the job would definitely send up some red flags, but firing might be a bit extreme (even if you sound like you deserve it). Paying an analyst isn't cheap, but neither is firing them. IMO itd be easier for them to just chalk you up to being a douchebag, let you keep slogging away for a few more months, skunk you at bonus season, then let you leave on your own without having to pay you severance. Just saying. Unfortunately, being a douchebag alone usually won't get you fired outright.
P.S. You have to go to HR to ask for a day off? What the fuck is that?
Better question. Who the fuck asks for a day off after 3 weeks?
Just to clarify, I started 2 1/2 months ago, but haven't had a day off in three weeks except for one. After working til 6am yesterday, I couldn't function without one day to myself
Seems nonsensical to fire an analyst because you are the cheapest on an hourly basis to compensate. Firing is impractical, especially if you're already working on projects. That being said, you must have an attitude problem or others just don't enjoy working with you. There's no reason you'd be fired for one comment out of frustration after putting in those hours, unless you're exceedingly negative and/or are unbearable to be around.
To be constructively honest, if I was your associate or even the third year analyst in question, I would strongly believe that you deserve to be let go. Given the pressures of the job, everyone has days where they slip and act like douchebags. However, they usually bounce back by continuing on with a strong work ethic and putting forth high quality work. In your case, it seems like you are not "bouncing back" and are rather, looking for a break that you feel you deserve.
From your description, it sounds like you are a class of 2010 or class of 2011 analyst. Clearly, you didn't see the market in 2008 and 2009 that the guy above you probably saw. When deals dried up, people spent even more time pitching, only to be laid off or see their coworkers laid off. If you were among those lucky enough to be retained, you didn't earn the bonus that your pre-2007 buddies enjoyed, despite pulling comparable (or even more) hours. Your VPs and MDs have been through many cycles, so they have also gone through this scenario.
As such, I would suggest that you decide what's important to you. I-banking is demanding and it is difficult. Everyone above you has seen how difficult it is, and the last thing they want is for some entry level analyst to have an easier climb up the ladder than they had. If you don't enjoy the job to the point where you are willing to give up vacations and weekends when needed, then you should work in a different line of business. Working 3 weeks with 1 day off is part of the job description and you haven't done anything extra by doing this. To summarize, no one owes you anything.
Additionally, asking for a day off when you were staffed on a project yesterday is not a smart move. I don't know how big your firm is, but walls do have ears, and I personally would be even more concerned about this getting back to your MD than the potential consequence of telling a 3rd year analyst that something is a waste of time. You're giving the vibe that you have a complete lack of commitment for the job and that you are unreliable. In a constantly changing market with clients that have all sorts of needs, you're going to have to realize that work will not always be on your terms. If you don't, then you will not survive in this industry.
I'm not trying to be an ass with this, I'm just giving you an honest perspective, having been in this industry and having seen people be let go for exhibiting a similar attitude. You get a flier for being an ass occasionally, but no one will tolerate sub-par work ethic.
Clarification: I just turned my part of a huge project in yesterday, I took the day off because I had nothing on my calendar except researching some shit bonds on bloomberg.
SB'ed because a very important point.
Pre-Lehman, banks were courting all kinds of grads left right and centre. Having extra analysts paid off well no matter their cost, since it allowed you to process more deals. The recruiting environment was all about drinks with banks, internships spending half the time on outings, expensive dinners. I was even flown to an exotic location for a week by a consultancy who wanted to hire me. This included waterskiing, a room so huge it had several sofas on its own balcony, and drinks on the beach. Good old days.
Today, there is both much less competition for employing talent (as deals have dried up for both banks and consultants, and corporate is contracting), and less demand for such talent internally. The tables have turned, there are no more drinks, no more courting of graduates. The average Cambridge graduate in economics still thinks his degree entitles him to a Wall Street job, and moans about the unfairness of it all.
I'm saying this because I made that mistake, and had the wrong attitude which has cost me several juicy opportunities (and had me leave a golden job because I was an ass and thought they underpaid me). You, young graduate, are not "entitled" to an amazing position with little work. Young consultant intern/BA, you are not entitled to produce the strategy for your team; this is your EM's job (as well as sucking up to the client when the partner isn't there); you do the excel and smile when required. Young banker, do the slides and polish the model. Yes, your team is understaffed by over 40%, and yet you are not paid a decent bonus unlike your older brother who entered GS in 2005 (gosh, that's a whole 7 years ago! time flies! London was almost another country back then). Of course, your perception of the effort/reward ratio will change when your entire body hurts from a third night of 2 hours sleep, and you think of your buddy Oscar who went into P&G, is paid the same base as you, parties almost every night and is surrounded by beautiful women, whilst getting promotions and more interesting work than you are. Or maybe it's Steve, who started some shitty dating website and has just bought his second BMW to take around his impeccable bikini model girlfriend with chocolate tablet abs (which you spied on his FB profile) whilst you are trying to explain to yours that no, you can't make it for dinner this weekend, because you'll be at the office again, and that things will get better in a year, yes they will (or maybe you are past this point and can't get a new one because there is just no free time to meet women anymore). And she asks you why you do this, since you're still paid only 50k GBP pre tax inc. bonus (real story, ML London) and her friends in X firm doing some mindless corporate crap is getting 40k. And you wish she would just understand and be a little more supportive, when she is thinking the same about you.
You are getting a lot more than money, you are becoming a tougher, smarter, harder working person with much higher standards and no matter where you go next, this will be valuable. That is the real upside, and reason to keep slogging. Like soldiers with combat experience who retire into civilian life and end up missing their service days, you will miss the crucible that shaped you as a man.
Re: those fateful days... oh, how I remember, although as a small team making money we were spared. Boss putting down the phone: "HSBC, fixed income this time." "UBS, 2,000 people." "They just shut down all prop trading operations in FX." Watching amazing people, senior traders with a decade of profits, join our team at junior level because they couldn't find a job elsewhere, arriving at work with that determined if a tad dark look in their eyes. This is the best time ever to join a team, because these people will be your mentors, those who have survived 4 years of cuts and keep making money. There is real merit in making it today, even with a lighter bank account.
You literally had on your calendar "research shit bonds"? But seriously, where the hell do you work?
I can't think of any investment banking analyst who has enough visibility to call a day off because they "don't have anything on the calendar". You've been working less than a year, you're not receiving a generous salary because you're an expert at the job. You're paid well because they think you have the aptitude to get shit done and the fortitude to do it whenever needed. The expertise comes with time and experience, when you'll want to hire some intelligent and motivated eager beaver; not some shit head who is going to push back because they are paid 2-3x their college peers yet think they deserve a day off to let their hair down and have some 'me time' because the job is hard.
Are you sure the look she gave you wasn't because you asked for a day off?
You should never take a day off during your first year, let alone first month.
[quote=BTbanker]Are you sure the look she gave you wasn't because you asked for a day off?
You should never take a day off during your first year, let alone first month.[/quote
I hope you are not serious!
In addition to everything everybody else said, I want to make a point....
Don't discount the fact that you could really have sleep-deprivation induced paranoia. None of the things you mentioned are really out of the ordinary....at all. In a sleep deprived state you could have EASILY misread the HR lady's facial expression, and the other two events don't have to mean anything at all (in fact, the thing with the HR lady doesn't have to mean anything - maybe you read her right and she had just fired somebody else, or her dad died or something, I don't know).
...probably good that you have a healthy dose of fear haha, but keep it in check and don't jump to comclusions
Asking for a day off (depending on the reason) might be the only red flag.
Its another analyst...no matter how "senior", who really cares?
damn man, that sucks you should totally tell us what happens on friday but hey, don't let this make you perform poorly in your job just because you can if you go in with that defeatist attitude, and they never even had the intention to fire you, you might just wind up shooting yourself in the foot
Only way to one up firing someone on a Friday would be doing it at the end of the day.
My biggest problem with this whole scenario is that you say that you just "walked into HR" to ask for the day off. Did you discuss it with your team/superiors?
If one of my junior employees decided to go above my head and straight to HR to whine about needing a day off (instead of talking to me about it), I'd probably write him off completely.
I talked to my boss before... I actually did it a few days ago because I knew I'd be beat after getting this project in. I used one of my vacation days.
You are not worth the 100k+ they are paying you. No first year analyst is. You are paid that much so that you dedicate yourself 100% to your work, which means no bitching to seniors and no lazing about. You think you're the only one who has ever had to work 3 weeks straight? As someone else said, unless you or a family member is dying, or perhaps a close wedding, GET BACK TO THOSE PITCHBOOKS BOY!
I disagree... you're definitely worth the 100k+ they pay you, otherwise they wouldn't pay you that, they would pay you less. They get far more benefit out of you than what they pay for, it varies group to group, but I've been involved in quite a few transactions where the analyst (not because it was me but because of the scope and depth of the work) was an incredibly important component. Trust me that there are plenty of analysts worth what they are getting paid.
Let us know if you get the axe.
you won't get sympathy from this board, and given that your original post doesn't have a question at the end of it, I'm not even sure what you're looking for people to tell you in the first place.
what's done is done. have a good attitude from now on and if you get the ax just move on and improve next time.
OP how elite of a firm is this, is it GS or JPM level?
PM me your MD's email. I'll convince him to not let you go but if that doesnt work I'll make sure they find a good replacement for you. :)
HA!
"I had nothing on my calendar except researching some shit bonds on bloomberg"
That is a day off in my book.
You are seriously considering the fact that you may be fired and continue to take personal days??? I am starting to think everyone is wasting their time here.
"Unless you are deathly ill, or it's Christmas, you definitely shouldn't be taking any personal days."
The sooner you realize this the better. Also, turn your attitude around altogether. If you can't take three weeks you are not cut out for this. And, speaking from experience, once you ruin a relationship with your seniors there is little chance of going back. You are just plain too replacable.
Didn't he say it was an analyst and not a senior?
And correct me if I am wrong, but nobody gives a shit about you having a little PMS outburst after working 100 hour weeks. Just do not take it personally when you get it from your seniors sometimes too. It's kind of an understood thing that nobody gets their feelings hurt.
It sounds like you have far more serious structural issues here.
Investment banking is not for you, sorry.
Where do you work?
Take a vacation. Euro style - one month. It's all the rage after the employment figures came out.
ya'll got trolled
you guys are all kind of assholes, saying he should get fired it would be totally different if he had told an MD or a senior associate that the task was a waste of time, but an analyst? what the hell kind of authority would anyone expect an analyst have?
and even if he does, it would be unexpected
Case in point why I'd never make it in banking. You guys can keep those preftigious 100 hour weeks...
There's a reason i don't find investment bankers that interesting to hang with.
Is it the same reason your picture is an albino cat?
Let us know what happened tomorrow.
I really do love WSO. 98% of the advise has been truly helpful. I would say 99% has been truly helpful but then it would imply that the 1% is useless. Sad attempts at jokes aside, I really do appreciate all the comments and realize that I probably do need an attitude change before it's too late. I think I'm ok for now, found out the project that I thought was due a month from now got a fire lit under it, and all the other shit now seems a little paranoid after a full night sleep.
Fired or not, you have made yourself "that guy."
You asked for a day off 3 weeks into the job, and made a stupid comment to a superior (doesn't matter if he is an analyst). As said in this thread, you are paid to be 24/7, and do it with a fucking smile. Sack up dude, if you're whining like a little bitch 3 weeks into it, how are you going to make it 2+ years. Were you not prepped enough in your internship? When I was in IBD, I wouldn't have even given a thought to asking for a day off in my first year, let alone the first month. Don't mean to be harsh or rant, but you really need to decide what you want to do, because it sounds like banking is not for you, and you are not going to cut it with the attitude you have.
Either way, best of luck and hope you can change your attitude and sack up.
JD
Listen, everyone who has done banking knows what it feels like to waste days doing something that is absolutely pointless, while being unappreciated and shit on constantly. But whether you can persevere through that, because you understand your role and feel that the learning experience is worth it, is up to you. It sounds like it isn't worth it for you. I am generally an angry guy and didn't go through a day without imagining how good it would feel to bash my associate's head in. But I kept my cool, put my head down, and cranked product - I felt that is how people pay their dues in this industry. If you're soft, no worries, just go do something else.
WELL????
alot of college kids that have never worked in banking hating on poor OP. Hint guys, not being cut out for banking is a good thing, because quite frankly being made for banking means that your too retarded to make it on the buyside.
OP, was this 3weeks into the job or just after 3 weeks of working fuckloads 10months in?
If its the latter thats perfectly understandable, if its the former, then yeah your going to have to learn to suck it up atleast for 1 more year before you jump ship. Hating on your superiors that early on, when you are still meant to be superkeen and love aligning ppt slides at all times of day and night like it is the greatest privilege on earth, is bad :/.
also lol whoever said that analysts are overpaid. Analysts are underpaid compared to everyone except for MDs, they work the most hours, and do pretty much all of the grunt work. If you want to see whos overpaid in banking just look at the people that get fired first in a recession, its expensive guys that dont bring in business, thats mainly vps and underperfoming MDs, not analysts.
wow, thread really confirms what a bunch of wankers there are in IB (and this forum).
Have you ever been fired or reprimand for swearing? (Originally Posted: 09/03/2013)
Have you or anyone else you know had this happen? Does it make a difference if you do it jokingly or angrily?
I've heard more swearing in my one year at a BB then I did through all of college if that answers your question. Makes no difference the flavor of the swearing.
If you get fired for swearing, your boss has some serious issues.
What does it mean if a guy flicks off a girl? Is that a no no?
Definitely don't do it in front of clients. Also take note if any of your superiors don't swear. If they don't, then why would you take the liberty of doing it around them?
i hear they swear a lot more in london than in NYC, true or false?
I'm sure that they use "bloody" more before the other expletives.
Definitely no issue swearing here. My analyst's typical response when he sees an error or doesn't like something is "Page [ ] is fed" or "You fed up [ ]".
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