I'm a doctor and I'm better than bankers
Hey friends.
A bit of background. I graduated from Oxford Medical School a year ago with a BA in Neurosciences and BMBCh (Distinction) in Finals. Had a gap year and will be starting my foundation year training in 2 months or so (similar to American "residency").
So I'm a doctor and
I lol at your pathetic 100 hour work weeks
I lol at you spending 14 hours a day on excel and powerpoint
I lol at the fact it takes only GCSE level maths to do valuations. I thought bankers cried about how discounted cash flows were "hard"
I lol at how you are treated like shit by your bosses. As Monkey Business stated you are, well, monkeys.
I lol at how unstimulating, soulless and boring your jobs are
I lol at how your only motivating factor is money, no way would anyone do this job if it was paid little
I lol at how you only with your eye on multimillions, you get that when you're 10-15 years down the road and by that time, the prime of your life will be wasted away.
I lol at how you think your job is "prestigious", when people barely know what investment bankers do.
I lol at how you think you'll be more attractive to the opposite sex. I've heard people introduce themselves in bars as "I'm Phil and I work at Goldman Sachs". She had a confused look on her face. Lmao.
I lol at how unbelievably unrewarding, dry and banal your work is and how hardened you must become after putting up with years and years of shit
I lol at how you think people will respect you, only to realise, nobody really cares or respects you outside of the city
Hope this helps.
Yes! I love these troll threads.
What's it like to be a valuable contributor to society??
Not that interesting. It's more about actually enjoying the job. I've worked 70 hour weeks with my dad before in an insurance office during admin work and I'll tell you something prospective bankers / anyone going into employment should know. Once you do 2-3 weeks of 13 hour days, you'll realise that the amount you make doesn't matter, your status doesn't matter, your prestige doesn't matter. Nothing fucking matters, except that you just want to be able to actually tolerate your job. In medicine, the work is interesting, constant problem solving, if you're interested in how your body works even better and most of all, helping someone feels great. With regards to investment bankers, I cannot comprehend how you find the work interesting. My Engineering friends from Oxford who went into investment banking said that nobody likes ther fucking job (apart from a smattering of traders and equity researchers). They're all in it for the money. Nobody can put up with the hours and the mind numbing work. Most of them just have their eyes on the big prize. They want to be the next Soros or Paulson.
And with that, I let out a hearty LOL.
Please refrain from calling me a troll. I'm a doctor, starting foundation training in 2 months.
If anyone has any questions about graduate medicine or Oxford, feel free to ask.
what speciality will you join. Also do you plan to purse a MPH degree? Also from one doctor to another just making sure what is the most common reason for pancreatitis?
So how many hours a week did you put into med school? And for how many years? The majority of us that are actually in IB do it for 2 years and move on.
Depending on what type of doctor you're going to be, those hours aren't that glamorous either... Not to mention the potential debt you can rack up for school.
My first post clearly states that I studied at Oxford. Oxford is not in the US. Medical school in England is an undergraduate course lasting for 6 years. 2 of our years are funded by the NHS. The total tuition fees costs etc. was £16k plus other fees, but because I worked during the summer, I've paid them off. I have no debts fortunately.
How many hours a week? For the first 3 years, we only had lectures (and practicals) for maybe 3 or 4 hours a day, during clinical school, it was 9-5. It was normal, not stressful whatsoever. Foundation training will certainly be more taxing, the hours will probably be 60-70 hours a week, however, in F2 I'm doing academic training hopefully which will only be a 9-5. It's tough but I actually enjoy it.
so basically youre a doctor with no experience
(are you even a doctor before youve done your residency...?)
hey doctor, i LOL that you have to sniff our anuses during prostate exams
Maybe a few times during our training
Unfortunately you'll be sniffing your bosses anoos daily, seeing as you'll be pretty far up his ass.
Yes, but he (the kind doctor) lols at you as he shoves his finger in your anus. If it wasn't for his kindness, he might call it, finger xxxxing you
Which college were you at? Whereabouts are you doing your foundation training?
These questions will make me too easily identifiable. Have you heard of the Norrington table? Well it did extremely well on that. That's all I'm saying.
Foundation training, again it will make me easily identifiable because I'm only one of two people from Oxford working there. But I'll be working in the midlands.
love how you complain about bankers attitudes when you literally seem to be the stereotype
What foundation/residency are you on? Most legit ones (besides optho and derma) will probably require around 90 to 100 hours a week for at least the first 2 or 3 years of residency and you get paid like shit.
Probably still more rewarding/interesting though.
I'm definitely not expecting it to be easy. 70 hour weeks certainly. Something a friend is doing is sacrificing banding (salary banding), for lighter specialities e.g. derm instead of urology. You're right, you do get paid like shit for our foundation training, it accelerates quickly though, every year.
Of course, that's the main advantage of investment banking, the salaries. I'm under no illusions there, financial analysts get paid far better than us. That's genuinely the only advantage I can think of.
cool story bro
if doctors are so good, the American Medical Association wouldn't have to spend so much money (2nd largest lobbying group after the Chamber of Commerce) lobbying in washington to try to keep the supply of doctors low.
Doctors are just people who cant do math
Hahaha, read my OP. Since when is Oxford in the US of A?
However you did bring up a relatively valid point. I was exceptionally good at mathematics, have you heard of the BMO? Well look it up, I did extremely well in those tests, hopefully that will give some indicator of my mathematical ability. It really is a shame we don't get taught much real mathematics at medical school, apart from in pharmacology. Even then it's just plug and chug. I sometimes feel as if my mathematical ability is wasted. But then I think, if I did a maths degree, I'd end up as a corporate cog in the city, and then an ethereal satisfaction washes over me and I become grateful that I chose to become a doctor.
I do however respect math academics. And yes, James Simons is a boss.
by the way, doctors are 5th tier jobs at harvard, finance>consulting>public service>law>medicine
Source?
I’m calling BS on this one too. I think a lot of undergrads from prestigious schools or not want to get into Medicine. Combine this with the fact that getting into top Medical Schools like Mayo Clinic are insanely competitive to get into.
The fact that you're on this forum talking shit shows that you respect bankers and their bank accounts.
Chaps, seriously stop feeding this retched bridge dwelling creature.
Hi doctor, cool story...still one of the 'bankers' will bang your sister one day....over and over
If I was informed correctly, your 17 hour shifts will prevent you from doing so, and my sister (not that I have one) wouldn't take a stroll into an investment bank for a laugh. The best way of releasing your anger isn't by dreaming of banging my imaginary sister, but by fapping your miserable lives away in the nearest toilet.
Over and out.
Over means that you have finished talking and expect a reply. Out means that you are finished talking and expect no reply.
This is contradictory, but let's hope either way that you're finished talking.
your sister would never stroll into an investment bank for a laugh?
sounds like shes not the entrepreneurial tyle. not my taste
that begs the question, why the f are you on here in the first place :P were you not being respected enough in your own circles? LOL
I think your grand total of $17 makes you the idiot ;)
Hardened in that you're shouted at by your ugly as fuck boss with the smelly breath. Yeah that guy. Treated like shit, absolute rat race etc. I don't know if it's different in America, but my friends have told me how it is at work and it just seems like hell. And it goes on for a sizeable proportion of the day. Must really be attrition for your emotions, I envisage you to be zombies and mindless drones by the end of your second month as an analyst.
On the other hand, while doctors see some fucked up shit, they don't become drones as they see how fragile life is, and you really start to appreciate the finer things in life. I heard a story of an accountant who was misdiagnosed with cancer and when he realised that he wasn't going to die, he said he felt as if he was "reborn". Quit his coma-inducing job, started up a restaurant and is apparently living a happy life.
Basically, you appreciate the smaller things in life. There are tears, emotions and adrenaline all the time. But you appreciate life a lot more.
This is a srs post, brought by a srs fucking doctor.
Btw, doctor, don't kid yourself, what you do most likely won't make a lick of difference. Your patients are mainly gonna be fat fucks that will see you as a prescription checkpoint and not the respected healer you think you are gonna be. Lulz
Nope, read my OP. I did a BA in Neurosciences and have a strong interest in Neuroscience. My F2 year will include research in beta-amyloid pathologies including Alzheimer's disease and other neurodegenerative diseases. I have a strong interest in the brain really. Will it make a difference? Maybe not, but if it does that's absolutely fantastic.
But most of all, I'll be enjoying my job, because the brain is something I've enjoyed studying for a while now. Genuine interest. Which automatically catapults it over and above the stuff financial analysts etc. do. You honestly think anyone genuinely has a passion for doing discounted cash flows and modelling leveraged buyouts?
I was pre-med for a year and your type disgusts me, you're the worst type of doctor - you flash your credentials in a show of superiority. If you gave a shit about what it is you're really supposed to be doing, you wouldn't be on here butting heads with a bunch of twenty year olds.
FYI - in a decade, I'll be retired and you'll still be paying off your student loans, have fun with that
Haha, chill dude. I'm not superior to anyone (apart from investment bankers :D)
And no you won't be retired. You're a deluded wannabe investment banker, with deluded aspirations. Also I can tell you haven't read my posts, because I have no debts. Have fun throwing this decade of your life away. You won't be retired by 30. Even at 40, that's a push. Must be a jump going from working all day to nothing. Might top yourself out of all the free time you don't know how to spend. You seem like a clueless, deluded little 20 year who thinks that if he gets into finance, he'll be the next Soros. You're clueless boy.
I must have struck a nerve, as I was one of the few to get a response. You faggot, are you really sitting over there reading this? Shouldn't you be out saving babies or something....or are you just a prestige whore?
I'm older than you and have already been working for a while, and rest assured: I'll be done with this rat race in a decade. I do this because I like it: I've had other jobs, and this works for me. I've also helped a number of people find jobs so they can support themselves, and in some cases to take care of their family.You still didn't answer my primary allegation: what shortcoming are you in denial of that drives you to get into a dick measuring contest with people in another career? Without an answer, this is the default assumption:
For what it's worth, I have doctors in my family and know what the deal is: I chose this instead.Also, if you think I'm clueless, how about you actually man up and come over to NYC. If you can refrain from being a douche for a few hours, I and some friends will show you a good time. We'll also show you just how baseless your assumptions are.....trust me when I say that I'm anything but clueless.
In summare: Gongrats on being an MDiety, you cock. No one cares. Don't kill any patients while you're preening in the mirror. One other thing: Fuck Oxford, Fuck the U.K. and fuck you. How about pulling this attitude in person, BITCH
Seriously? Deep down you are jealous of the lifestyle, the title, whatever, otherwise you wouldn't be posting on this site. You're bitter that GS guys at bars drop that they work at GS but I'm sure you don't hesitate to drop that you're a hot shot doctor. How's being on call working out for you?
Bottomline - I'll take my 4x6 cubicle anyday over touching morbidly obese people, people with funky rashes, people with questionable hygenie, etc.
Not jealous of the job. Just having some fun with investment banking friends ^_____________^.
My friend did the usual route. Rigorous subject at good university (Oxford). Interships in 2nd year etc. They just believed it was the norm and didn't know of the realities of the job. When they told me about it I became fascinated with it. I read this site for fun sometimes to get a better idea of what drives people to this field. Not jealous of the lifestyle at all.
Because Of the money? We could all do with some more money. I think it's great you guys earn a lot, just not that you sacrifice the prime of your life away for it.
I'm not bitter, I just thought it was hilarious, because the girl didn't know wtf Goldman Sachs was. Most girls know what doctors do though, I hope. That's not the point. The point was to show that investment bankers think they're more attractive to the opposite sex. I.e have strong delusions. I'm not on call yet.
Touching people with funky rashes, bad hygeine is not nice, of course. However, are you honestly telling me you enjoy your "cubicle"? I find that difficult to believe seeing as most people in the world go on about how they hate their office jobs / how they hate their cubicles / hate sitting in an office all day / hate the corporate environment / hate being a cog in the city machine etc. You don't love your cubicle. You'd rather stay in your cubicle than go for a walk in a nice park, or go to a nightclub. Feel free to insult my profession lol, I see you're trying your best. No need to lie though to make yourself feel better. :-).
As an American admitted to med school and not planning on going let me ask you this? How do you feel about dicking around for 5+ years in residency? How do you feel knowing that a first year associate can earn more than you will in your peak year for income? How does it feel that NSX is really just playing around in the goo? How does it feel to know that NSX is on call as much as bankers for a fraction of the pay? How does it feel that neuro never actually solves anything? As the son of a vitreo-retinal surgeon and admitted to med school myself, I have to say if you are a physician someone needs to tell you to shut the hell up. You know nothing and until you recognize that residency is going to be difficult. If you're a prick like this to the nurses you will pay, if you do this to the residents you will pay, same goes for attendings. Most people have an interest in finance here and to be honest you aren't as special as you think you are.
Hahaha u mad? Get a sense of humour.
Apart from the money aspect, which I'll deal with at the end, I'll work through your points one by one.
When VP in interviews ask "Why do you want to do M&A", do you really think it's truth when people say... "well, I love finance, I love the challenge, I have STAMINA"? No. Lol. They like money, most of all. That's the real reason. Money and motherfucking prestige!!! Judging by your obsession with money, I'm guessing you're a good example of that. A person who doesn't care about anything apart from money. You are pathologically greedy.
Your whole post is obsessed with how much money you make. Look at each line on your post. "How does it feel to know that NSX is on call as much as bankers for a fraction of the pay". Lol. You really think I went into medicine for the pay? Did you even read my posts?
I think all in all it just shows how money obsessed you are, and that you'd be willing to sacrifices a decade for excellent pay. It think that shows a lot more about you than it does me. I feel sorry for you. It really is pathetic that you're so obsessed with money.
Bro, you're not even a fucking American doctor. You're in the fucking UK. Don't you guys have free healthcare or something. My cousin is a doctor there and he gets paid peanuts compared to what doctors make in the States.
Get a life and stop debating with 20 somethings about how your profession is better. These same 20 somethings make more money now than you will make when you're 30 something.
Get a life, bitch.
I might know your cousin. Details?
As I said, this money obsession is very dangerous. When you wake up at 40, will you be happy that you traded your years just to accumulate some millions so you can live the end of your life well, when you're deteriorating in senescence? You gotta take the prime of your life by the balls, have some crazy experiences, have some emotional highs and lows, live to the fullest. I'm sure you experience some of that, maybe when sealing some big deals, I don't know. But admit it, most of the time will be a drag. I can't comprehend how my buddies tolerate those insane hours. They say they do everything they can do escape that lifestyle. But they love the money! They say they're drawn in by the insidious appeal of the lifestyle. They don't mind having 10 hours of free time in a whole week and 2 weeks holiday in a year, as long as they can blow as much money in those free hours as possible. Don't you think that's scary? How many hours are in a year, and how many hours will be free? You might be surprised at how miniscule the proportion will be.
It's all about the money isn't it? If you're so obsessed with money, why didn't you try your hand at entrepreneurship at an earlier age? I know a guy who left secondary school, got business experience and now runs a disposal company making millions of profit at the tender age of 25. He probably employs finance guys, lawyers from Oxford! He didn't even consider doing a degree. If you're so obsessed with money, where are your balls and entepreneurial spirit?
But anyway, it's all well and good you'll earn money. If you actually get into IB that is. The main point I'm making is that I cannot fathom how it's worth trading the best years of your life! Money is a good commodity. But there's an even more precious commodity out there. Time. You can't get back time. Is the trade; time ---> money a good one? Think about it....
bitch
If we take anything away from this thread it's that there are a lot of insecure people on this site.
Admit it, you're finding this entertaining. Why else would I do it? Just having some fun with investment bankers. My Oxford buddies have really got me interested in this formidable profession. I think it's only natural that I communicate with them. It's as if we're soulmates?
Most of my mates from Oxford have shied away from conventional careers instead perusing avenues such as becoming Film Directors or Politicians. However I do have one medic friend from Ox, he'd dominate you!
Sure thing Mr. Trotsky. Feel free to PM. I don't know how to use it, but I'll have a go.
this un-endowed trollite is seeking attn. prob bcos he is a loser
I'll feed.
I've never seen a doctor on the forbes 400. I've seen plenty of people with banking experience.
SB for you UFO
This thread is stupid.
Pro Athletes, Rappers, and Actors are what everyone dreams of becoming. Those who cant do those jobs claim "rock star status" on things like excel spreadsheets or surgical skills.
So stop arguing and get out there and pull a Ben Affleck. Find your Matt Damon, hitch your wagon to him and ride that thing all the way to stardom.
Well said UFO
in the word of my father who was a doctor in intensive care, 1% of what you do is interesting, 99% of it is routine and mundane.
LOL, hope you enjoyed spending your twenties going deep into debt and doing your residency. Sounds like someone is annoyed about pulling a 48-hour shift.
Excuse me, but I have to get into my rusty, unpretentious, honda and go cash a number of dividend checks that I've been collecting. I get out at 6 PM today like every other day. Maybe when (if) you get out of work, we can meet up for a beer.
To anyone I offended in the U.K: I apologize.....it's early and I'm still hungover from last night.
To summering: I don't have anymore time to waste on you
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/attachments/f9/22729d1301508595-roverron-…
Don't feed the troll
Don't feed the troll, you were shovelling the most succulent stake down his throat a minute ago!
THIS IS WHAT ALL OF US LOOK LIKE
LOL, may be a little too late for not feeding the troll.
Wonder how that residency is going for the soon-to-be MD. I am younger than him and own a rusty honda with a bunch of dividend checks to cash and a number of gold coins to put in a safety deposit box in the back. Perhaps I will buy part of his student loan when he graduates; the first month of interest could fund the A/C repairs the car needs but I have been too cheap to pay for. Or maybe a flight out to the UK to grab a drink with him. (Naah, I am too thrifty for airline flights.)
Bottom line, the US needs to raise income taxes. That way, next time someone's being a nut about wealth, we can just say, "Hey! Thanks for all the taxes you're paying! We appreciate the bank bailouts!"
English humour falling on deaf ears. Should definitely not have elicited so much of a response. The OP stated explicitly that his posts were tongue-in-cheek. Why are people being so vitriolic?
Welcome to New York, sucker.
...by way of Newark. Welcome to the real world princess.
Quite.
This is golden.
Also, what is Dubai? Is that like a new Web 3.0 site? Or is it that middle-eastern country that needed a bailout from Abu-Dhabi after borrowing money to build an indoor ski hill?
that would be new jersey
Why I'm a banker and not a doctor:
1) I'm smarter than a doctor. Doctors memorize a few things and spew them out repeatedly. I actually solve problems.
2) I'm in it for the money, that's right, I said it (the key here is that I can admit that, unlike most doctors who are also in it for money but aren't willing to admit that and unfortunately they make less than bankers on the whole).
Pretty sure you got that backwards there, bud.
Also, I'm a prospective banker, don't get me wrong, but the amount of people here that honestly believe they will be retired at 30 living in South Beach with multiple ferrari's in their garage is disturbing.
Nope, not backwards. From my experience, the friends I had who went through med school and went on to be a doctor would agree (they may word it slightly differently).
I never said anything about age 30, nor did I comment on lifestyle, but yes, I do expect to not have to work any more within the next 10 years (but I would not have that short of a horizon if I was just starting out from undergrad right now so I understand your perspective but you have to realize that there are a few people on this forum who do actually have some experience and are a few years down the road from where you are).
Oh and one more thing... Summering, you're still in school right? Well when you get done with school, in a decade or so and actually start making real doctor money, I'll be on a beach somewhere.
Also, is it just me or does the dialect here make you think this guy is not a native english speaker? Annoying! Please Summering, take a shower, you smell.
A couple of other clarifications: 1) money isn't a commodity... commodities are commodities and money is currency 2) you're not a doctor, you're a student, please post again once you're done with your residency
Summering:
Props for going the medical route. If I wasn't a little squeamish I might have looked into that a bit more seriously.
However, I think you misunderstand why a lot of people do banking. Doing the 2 year analyst stint opens up a lot of doors for those that make it through. They can get into top MBA programs, move onto VC/HFs/PE funds, corporate finance, etc.
Besides the exit opportunities it's highly beneficial as far as personal development. It teaches you how to be a workhorse, how to go balls out for 80 hours per week. You have the opportunity to do things most people don't get to do until they're 10 years into their career, like meeting with CEOs and top executives. You get to build a network that's unparalleled in entry-level jobs.
Banking might not be the best job in the world, or the most satisfying, but it creates opportunities for people's future. Some do, in fact, enjoy the deal process. I think you're getting the wrong idea about it. Just like in any profession (as a doctor, I'm sure you know) you're going to have to deal with douchebags. A lot of the younger guys come on here with a skewed view of what banking is. I think WSO's Certified Users do a good job of dispelling the myths behind what IB does provide.
Anyways, thanks for coming by. Challenging people's views is great, it gives us an opportunity to reevaluate why we do what we do. Best of luck to you in your career!
would give you a sb if i had any left!
OP, congrats on your achievements, I'm sure you'll go on to do great things why the hate though? sounds like your gf ran away with a banker. If thats the case, you should pick a fight with someone your own age, which is likely a VP, not bunch of 18~20 year old college kids on this forum.
Doctors have no social skills. This thread is proof lolz.
Wanker!!!
+1
#
I wanted to be a doctor until I was told Diagnostician isn't a real doctor and made up from TV. I imediatly said fuk u couch, and left organic chem!
lets be honest -- med school aint that hard either. neither is engineering. neither is ibanking. neither is any job, really. once you have a minute to look around and figure out what you are doing, nearly every job involves repeating (for the most part) the same processes/logic/etc over and over again. this is true of medicine too, don't try to say it isn't.
similarly, there is just about no job that is so much greater than others - just people who like to think that is the case.
This is retarded -- just because this guy comes on and trolls people start talking shit about doctors? It's certainly a more honorable profession than what we all do. Grow the fuck up.
Here here! He has stated he's gone, not coming back, yet people are still going for it, trying to jutify their career choices to themselves and someone from the interest who isn't listening.
In the UK, physicians are civil servants. No envy for that.
And physicists >>>>>>> doctors. We enjoy the intellectual challenges of our work, get paid well for it, and don't get needle sticks from HIV+ ghetto dwellers. Any physicist could be a doctor but very few doctors have the imagination and intellect to hack it past physics 101.
When I become a director making 500k a year at age 30, you are still going to be paying off your debt from medical school
When you become a director making $500K/year at age 30, you'll be able to buy a loaf of bread for $10K or visit a doctor for $20K.
When you say "Director" you must be implying that you are at a place like UBS that calls VP's "Directors".... in which case, I'd rather be a docter with debt up to my eyeballs.
If I had to do everything over again, I would have gone to technical school at age 18, started work at 19 and made boatloads fixing the wiring in bankers' homes. I would probably be retired by now.
But could you honestly say you were happy doing manual labor for at least 20 years?
Technically, if you join most state police programs at 18, you can retire on a decent pension by 40-45. Of course you have to deal with the fact your face might get blown off in the meantime. (No disrespect for police)
Sick degree bro, I should enroll on U. of Phoenix Online to get my MD too. Can't wait to be colleagues!
Perhaps not really the place to complain about it but is anyone else really bothered by the term "gap year"? Seriously? Just say you took a year off or couldn't handle the pressure or whatever else you did.
uhj medicine ... dealing with plebeians... absolutely disgusting ...
Classic thread in the making
this thread is great. it's even better that someone took the trouble to go to every post and throw shit at him. thanks for the laughs all
Neuroscience, dream on.....
Great. Given that you're in to neuroscience, could you please make this the basis of your research for the next 5-10 years:
You would think that the experience would of been quite humbling.I guess not.
Also, i think your're right, everyone should just become doctors. Clearly the whole world is just closet-neuroscientists that haven't yet figured out their true calling.
LOL. Ok, this guy is clearly a troll. I have a bunch of friends who got into Oxford law, and the maturity level they showed in their first year was amazing. They would NEVER resort to going on WSO or premed forums to bash on other careers. So, I don't understand why you fed this troll so much material. So, not only would a med school grad not do something this immature and insecure, but also he would acknowledge
1 the insane amount of ass-licking you have to do as an intern in med 2 being treated by supervisor MDs like shit 3 being treated by hospital's lawyers like a walking liability 4 working in surroundings of misery and death 5 making mistakes that you know cost others lives (and which are covered up by the hospital admin) 6 enjoy a mediocre pay that diminishes every year even though your hours are the same as those of a banker. By the way, MDs, anywhere outside of Canada, US, UK, and Australia get paid SHIT ALL. 7 constantly risking contraction of diseases 7 turning down treatments because patient has no insurance 8 performing very disgusting procedures that are enough to make anyone vomit 9. Realizing that 99 % of your work is to keep old people (that should've died a looong time ago) alive for just a few more days 10 Realizing that your bitch ass is owned by big pharmas 11. there are way more, but I need to go
Have fun with 4x as much schooling and tuition as bankers for 1/4 of their salary.
This is stupid....it's not about doctors vs. bankers (vs. lawyers or whoever).
People choose their careers for a variety of different reasons. I have a ton of respect for doctors, but I would not want to be one, because it's not appealing to me. Similarly, maybe the OP should get some respect for bankers, even though he can't comprehend their life choices.
I agree with some of what he says, but you are paid well for the shit you go through. Some people think it's worth it. Also, OP should keep in mind that he is making extreme overarching assumptions. Not everyone in finance works a ton of hours, has a shitty boss (or even has a boss), has to do dull work, etc.
House, M.D vs Gordon Gekko
Who will win ?
Its obvious, House is just a lame character with pathetic abilities compared to Gekko
I have a quick question for Summering. Why would you come on here and write this? To build up you self a- steam? To try to make doctors seem better than bankers? Simply to try to stir up an argument?
This site exists to help people find information about a career path they may take some day. Not to stir up fights with random people on the internet. So please unless here for a productive reason don't throw away other people's time with these pointless posts.
This guy is a troll that has been on WSO - you can't tell from his posts? He hits every nerve lol. And second I've never heard a doctor not bitch about being treated like shit during their residency so if he thinks he he won't be bending over for his attending much like we do for the MDs he's got a rude awakening!
I like this post alot...I think it's very true, which makes me a hypocrit for being on this website but the truth is I am interested in Finance and potentially investment banking. I have always admired doctors, and, well, have recently thought about becoming one. Anyhow, not sure why summering is on here, in a world of investment bankers?
GG
During the prime, us ballers are already in the buyside, pulling in half a million+ with ease while you are a resident on call at 3:30AM to do some shitty job and making 40k/yr living in the suburbs
it's not really a valid comparison, unless you define where the person is in his respective field.
the best doctors are surgeons in private practice, making 700k a yr, full job security, reasonable hours, saving lives (literally) in satisfying, prestigious, and universally respected work. then there are doctors who work primary care at your local clinic.
in finance, there are KKR partners, and there are your average stockbrokers at UBS. comparing the entire field of finance to the entire field of medicine is meaningless.
and seriously, the ppl here who think they''ll retire by 35 are a joke. non-target kids with stars in their eyes.
hey op:
why don't u stop making so many assumptions / generalizations about people who would like to work as investment banking analysts and go perform a colonoscopy or something. i'm sure that's ur fave procedure.
ur post is one of the most absurd, thoughtless, and retarded that i've ever seen. u should be skullf*cked, not for being a doctor and making fun of bankers, but for actually taking the time to create this thread and attempt to have any sort of meaningful impact on our lives at all.
So essentially, any job that pays well, i.e doctor, lawyer, banker, starts off really shitty and gets better and better down the road. Only some jobs end up paying a lot more once one's career is established, (banker, lawyer), while other jobs end up paying less but offer more satisfaction (doctor); that is, of course, if you can advance in those fields. That basically sums up this argument in two sentences.
.
troll of the year?
this is actually one of the better trolls.
Also youll be living in the midlands of england, outside of london england is one biblical shithole. so have fun.
Again with the UK hate! The Cotswolds; lovely, Devon and Cornwall; lovely, Kent; lovely..... The majority of the North is a hole but there are some beautiful areas outside of London. Oxford is especially stunning, with Woodstock (Blenheim Palace) close by being wonderful.
Pipe down.
Blenheim is Okayish, if that castle was elsewhere itd be 1000000000x better restored and better kept.
Oxford is nice, but again horrible restoration works.
some of the nature sides you mentioned are pretty nice, but found elsewhere in europe with 1000000x better weather.
England has no comparative advantage to any european country.
No beaches, no mountains, horrible weather, some of the nature on par with other european countries, but this is outdone by horrible weather.
Horrible food( altough due to an influx of other nations this has gotten better),
Aweful building quality.
This all applies exluding London, London is englands selling point.
You silly and wrong. Silly and wrong!
And you whine like a man-child about weather, tuck in puss.
double post, sorry
where did the queer of the year go? summering, please come back, this isn't any fun without you
UK's one advantage is that they print their own currency and are in better fiscal shape than much of Europe.
I made the mistake of buying a certain southern European oil company thinking country is irrelevant if you produce something for foreign consumption. Now I am finding out that the market doesn't care about Porter's Five Forces in a panic.
Hilarious, thats the key.
George Soros is still the man !
16.09.1992
Fuck Soros, he's getting shady with the lobbying of our justice system
Didnt notice that statement, but it beats everything
I've never actually seen a WSO user with negative points until now...That's awesome.
OP is a playa hata, he's gonna marry a hata bitch and have hata kidz
That is all.
We are bankers, and we do not laugh at your terrible grammar.
IP electricians have to do some 8,000 hours of apprenticeship making $15 an hour. Trade-school isn't all that great
I can't help but see the satire in all of this. As egotistical and immature as this doctor is, he's no where close to the level of narcissism and prestige whoring that I've seen on these forums. Consultants are bullshit artists, lawyers are paper pushers, doctors don't make as much, accountants are devoid of ambition, everyone is jealous of my money, etc etc etc
Bankers hate the MOST on other professions. At least realize the hypocrisy here?
Just been pointed in the direction of this thread by a banker friend of mine. I'm a doctor - a real working one, not just a graduate - in the UK and this Summering chap is a bit of a prat(as well as a troll).
He's bragging about a job he's not even doing yet. All he's been so far is a medical student. Trust me buddy, in the real world it's a different ball game. Maybe give it a try before slagging off other jobs?
Being a doctor is a decent job. Far better than being a bin man. Not really on the same scale as being the guy who chooses the victoria's secret models. But just like banking it has serious downsides. We doctors do hours of mindless dull crap just like everyone else and we have our share of rubbish seniors. The pay's not bad but it doesn't compare with IB. But we get the moral win.
I can only apologize for this "doctor" and his cocky ways. I work in the midlands too and all I can hope is that I run into someone who meets his description when he starts work. I'll keep a constant list of rectal exams especially for him to keep him humble.
OP, I have a few questions for you:
Why did you post in this thread? What did you seek to accomplish? Was it to inflame and disillusion people away from IB out of some sick sense of humor (is this really what you do for chuckles)? Or is it out of some condescendingly altruistic need to "save" and dissuade people from this horrid profession?
If you detest and find IB ludicrous, why are your IB friends even your friends? Not only do you clearly find their jobs (and thus a large portion of their lives) meaningless, but also how do they even stand you knowing that you openly mock their choice of career? I sincerely doubt that this relationship is healthy, so please enlighten me.
I seriously would like to know the answer to these. I hope you're not the unabashed bast*rd that you're making yourself out to be.
Lol, I think it has been made quite clear that this guy was trolling. For people not up to date with what that means:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Obviously anything this guy has said must be taken with a grain of salt. I truly doubt he believes everything he mentioned. People DO gain pleasure in eliciting "emotional responses," there is no doubt about that, and this guy has done a great job.
Why is it that such a high volume of this site consists of trolling? I think i see that word on this site more than any other blog/forum I read.
you provide and sustain life... we provide liquidity; one and the same.
playing hot potato with stock of the month isn't the same as saving someones life
Hah.
The trolls are providing too much liquidity on the fairy tale market. We need more regulation...
I agree with the need for more moderation....elect some of these 1000 bananaers as Moderators with the ability to /thread. Also, the current forum style, I believe, leads to poor categorization. For me, at least, I ONLY look at the side bar of "Forum Topics" where all of the Posts are grouped together, regardless of category. Also, when I post a new topic I don't heed the tags. I think in order to post something new you should pick one of the categories and post it in that category. Something similar to http://webdevrefinery.com/forums/
Just my thoughts
See, I don't understand that. It is people like you, that have a genuine interest in the success of WSO (assumed because of you number of posts), that should be allowed to participate in the management of the site. It is internet 101.
LOL, the problem is that if you're a mod on most well-run sites, you're not allowed to have strong opinions. Everyone knows I have certain very strong opinions on thrift, lifestyle, and prestige. Other veterans have their own strong opinions on politics, etc. But it would be nice to be able to delete obvious spam every once in a while.
The trick to dealing with trolling if you're not a mod is a threadjack that takes the conversation off in a crazy direction that winds up disproving the trolls views. This serves the purpose of (1) not feeding the troll and (2) really irritating the troll if he started the thread and you do it right. For instance, if we all get together and start talking about how us bankers are a bunch of rednecks and enjoy collecting dividend checks and driving rustbuckets, a troll who started a conversation about doctors being cooler than bankers knows he just lost.
So the proper response isn't "don't feed the troll." Because some idiot (sometimes me) will feed the troll anyways. The proper counter to trolling a threadjack- that way everyone gets to have fun as the troll tries more and more desperately to get things back on topic.
I don't buy that. Thrift, lifestyle and prestige are all opinionated topics where it is quite obvious people, including mods, will have strong opinions. It doesn't mean you still cannot be objective to a person's resume, job offers, advice etc.
The advice that I have seen you give, in legitimate threads, has been worthwhile.
Great idea in concept. But what makes a troll a troll is that they cause people to get emotional. Just look at all these responses. People truly wanted to prove this guy wrong. Wouldn't it be hard for you to completely thread-jack and note respond to my post if I posted a troll thread on lifestyle prestige etc.
The best way to prove this guy wrong is by convincing him that all bankers are rednecks and we enjoy collecting dividend checks in the backs of our rusty (but otherwise assiduously maintained) Toyotas. As the forum gets a little older and wiser, folks will catch on and have a lot more fun with the trolls.
I agree with you somewhat. I do respect doctors who can save people's lives. They have a mission in life and have contribution to our society unlike those crooks at Wall Street. But I have seen a lot of medical students who act very arrogant though. Hope you're not one of them.
I am a student at a target university fully intending to enter investment banking. I agree with basically everything in the OP. I'm not deluding myself here - I am in this because I value perceived prestige and large sums of money over any other metric a job can be measured by. I have the typical finance dream of a wealth/status/prestige. That is who I am, and I doubt more than a few on this forum are any different. There's nothing wrong with this.
But I have immense respect for my pre-med friends. They take much harder classes and work far harder than me, a finance student, and while just like everyone else they are attracted to money and prestige, many of them are far more genuinely interested in the medical field. And the truth is, nearly all them could do ibanking, but many of my finance/ibanking friends couldn't cut it in medicine.
The fuck is this dude doing on a finance forum? Shouldn't he be on MD.com or some shit like that?
I'm pretty confident working in a bank is more enjoyable than working in a hospital
Lol, I think Summering had his visa card cancelled because he didn't pay on time, and to take out his anger against the banks, he decided to troll WSO. lol. I also don't think you're a doctor. You have the premed je ne se quois.
Troll, you'll never be wealthy, good day.
Just bumping this classic troll thread.
im gonna go onto http://forums.studentdoctor.net and start a troll post about how bankers and traders > doctors. im cool.
LOL. Shit is getting real!
Does anyone know if that Summering guy posts in other threads? Where has he gone, he is entertaining
between working 80 hour weeks at age 22 and making $120,000 and working 80 hour weeks at age 25 with an MD making $45,000, I'm sorry but I pick the former. Most of us in finance just want to grind for 3 years, have money saved up/and/or pay off our ivy league loans (those of us from poor families) and then move the fuck on to better and more creative things like having enough for my own business start up or take a year off to rejoin with my band i had back in HS and live off savings I made while doing banking.
shut the fuck up doctor. there's a reason that my father who works at the US Office of the Inspector General gets flooded with reports about doctors committing $150MM medicare fraud or "aggressive surgeons" who recommend medicare-supported expensive surgery as a solution to EVERY DAMN THING even when unnecessary just to increase profits for their group. all of you did it for the money and all of you wish you can make more. if you say otherwise, you're LYING. sure some of you are bio nerds and like hospitals and patient interaction. but ultimately ITS STILL ABOUT THE FUCKING MONEY. You could've become a nurse but you didn't! In the words of my former flatmate: "If I was good at math, I would've majored in a quantitative study and gone on to work at a hedge fund. But I suck at math so I'm gonna crank it out as a doc and still earn an uppermid-class wage". Accept it and move on.
my uncle is a GYN surgeon. his salary is $180,000. his total comp is $325,000. he gets a bonus split from the profit by his group. the more surgeries he makes, the more his group makes, the higher his bonus. straight real shit. believe me. don't tell me doctors are some kind of angels sent from heaven to save our souls compared to an ibanker. you filthy surgeons have just as much incentive to increase revenue as a banker.
MDs (Medical Doctor not Man. Direc.) do have better reputation, but you´re earning not that much.
Not everybody can plant new tits or new lips, thats fact, so the most doctors earn between $200.000 and $500.000 per year. Thats good, but as a good trader or IBer you can earn more.
But compared to base salary, the salary is equal, excluding the huge bonuses some bankers and traders collect.
between working 80 hour weeks at age 22 and making $120,000 and working 80 hour weeks at age 25 with an MD making $45,000, I'm sorry but I pick the former. Most of us in finance just want to grind for 3 years, have money saved up/and/or pay off our ivy league loans (those of us from poor families) and then move the fuck on to better and more creative things like having enough for my own business start up or take a year off to rejoin with my band i had back in HS and live off savings I made while doing banking.
shut the fuck up doctor. there's a reason that my father who works at the US Office of the Inspector General gets flooded with reports about doctors committing $150MM medicare fraud or "aggressive surgeons" who recommend medicare-supported expensive surgery as a solution to EVERY DAMN THING even when unnecessary just to increase profits for their group. all of you did it for the money and all of you wish you can make more. if you say otherwise, you're LYING. sure some of you are bio nerds and like hospitals and patient interaction. but ultimately ITS STILL ABOUT THE FUCKING MONEY. You could've become a nurse but you didn't! In the words of my former flatmate: "If I was good at math, I would've majored in a quantitative study and gone on to work at a hedge fund. But I suck at math so I'm gonna crank it out as a doc and still earn an uppermid-class wage". Accept it and move on.
my uncle is a GYN surgeon. his salary is $180,000. his total comp is $325,000. he gets a bonus split from the profit by his group. the more surgeries he makes, the more his group makes, the higher his bonus. straight real shit. believe me. don't tell me doctors are some kind of angels sent from heaven to save our souls compared to an ibanker. you filthy surgeons have just as much incentive to increase revenue as a banker.
Why is everyone giving this much weight to OP? He is just feeling insecure and his pussy is hurting real bad. That is why he is learning more about Brains so that one day hopefully he can treat himself and his insecurities.
hey OP how is med school going?
The math doctors use is pretty pathetic too, mate (pure math student). Honestly, I've seen more demanding math applications in finance than in medical industries (option pricing stuff becomes crazy cool).
Been reading this site for a little while. I am currently internal medicine doc with prior experience at a BB IBD back in 2006/7 when all you needed was a pulse and you could get a job. However, I can say that I way prefer my time in the hospital with patients and, more importantly, my colleagues. I think either field - medicine, finance, law - will on average give you a pretty good life in terms of finances. Most docs, finance players and lawyers will be average (by definition) and their lives will reflect that same. There are, of course, certain docs who "hit it out of the park" and go on to develop treatments and start companies that make them 100s of millions. This is also true for some financiers, who are able to start shops (PE, VC, HF) and "hit it out of the park." The only part of this that we have some control in is to pick the field that fits us best, and after my initial stumble into IB, i landed squarely into medicine.
You will do roughly the same amount of paperwork along with having roughly the same hours per week schedule for roughly the same amount of pay on most years. Why become a doctor?
helping people get well, saving lives, etc.
Although this is a troll post, the OP is actually correct. You should dedicate your time to worthwhile endeavours...finance careers are not a worthwhile endeavour, but take too much time and effort to be treated as "just a job".
.. @"Summering" ... get a psychologist friend of yours to diagnose your inferiority complex ...
This thread is awesome I love it.
In terms of motivated people who want an above-average style of life:
There are people who want money, so they do finance. There are people who want to help people, and they become doctors, or maybe lawyers.
There are people who want money and want to help people, they're philanthropists.
Then there are people like OP, who want to pretend that they like to help people, but actually care about the money. Those people are evil. Those are the politicians.
Whatever you asshole.
I'm going to make fun of you for responding to a troll post that's more than a year old.
I'm a doctor and I'm better at being a fucking tool than all you bankers (Originally Posted: 08/11/2011)
now that i got your attention, read this (copy/pasted from my reply to the "doctor" who wrote the sexy "im a doctor and i'm better than bankers" thread):
between working 80 hour weeks at age 22 and making $120,000 and working 80 hour weeks at age 25 with an MD making $45,000, I'm sorry but I pick the former. Most of us in finance just want to grind for 3 years, have money saved up/and/or pay off our ivy league loans (those of us from poor families) and then move the fuck on to better and more creative things like having enough for my own business start up or take a year off to rejoin with my band i had back in HS and live off savings I made while doing banking.
shut the fuck up doctor. there's a reason that my father who works at the US Office of the Inspector General gets flooded with reports about doctors committing $150MM medicare fraud or "aggressive surgeons" who recommend medicare-supported expensive surgery as a solution to EVERY DAMN THING even when unnecessary just to increase profits for their group. all of you did it for the money and all of you wish you can make more. if you say otherwise, you're LYING. sure some of you are bio nerds and like hospitals and patient interaction. but ultimately ITS STILL ABOUT THE FUCKING MONEY. You could've become a nurse but you didn't! In the words of my former flatmate: "If I was good at math, I would've majored in a quantitative study and gone on to work at a hedge fund. But I suck at math so I'm gonna crank it out as a doc and still earn an uppermid-class wage". Accept it and move on.
my uncle is a GYN surgeon. his salary is $180,000. his total comp is $325,000. he gets a bonus split from the profit by his group. the more surgeries he makes, the more his group makes, the higher his bonus. straight real shit. believe me. don't tell me doctors are some kind of angels sent from heaven to save our souls compared to an ibanker. you filthy surgeons have just as much incentive to increase revenue as a banker.
thanks for reading, asshole!
I wouldn't say that it's all about the money or that everyone thinks this way (obviously all those family doctors aren't doing it for the big payout) but I agree with your general argument.
This is America, of course money matters. If medicine is socialized, I bet we will see a noticeable shift in where the smart kids go to make a living.
The $325,000 is probably because ur uncle is at his pinnacle. That # is really hard to come by for a normal doctor. Most will earn about $200,000k.
200 thousand thousand? I don't know any doctors that make $200 million/year.
"If medicine is socialized, I bet we will see a noticeable shift in where the smart kids go to make a living."
That has happened over the last 20 years as Wall Street became a more prevalent part of the economy and culture. Lots of brain drain of people who could have actually engineered real products or performed real services.
OP, obvious youre a poser cuz poor families dont pay for Ivy League degrees. Its called need based aid throughs grants. Another poser exposed.
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