Is it possible to move from a back office to a front office eventually?
Hello! I am just going to join an IB, completely new to the industry. Is it alright for me to aspire to be on the front desk role someday? I still haven't done my MBA but I do plan to do it some day. Also, my GPA is around 3.52/4. Need any opinions/ experiences on this subject. Thank you in advance :D
Anything is possible, but I would suggest learning how to turn off caps lock first.
Oh that was just the urgency in my voice that I wanted to convey.
Unfortunately, it makes you look like one of the resident trolls who REALLY LOVE CAPITALIZATION. To actually answer your question, breaking into IB is super doable with a good MBA irregardless of your prior work experience.
Couldn't have searched for this? Pretty sure there's a new post every other day that covers this very subject.
BO to FO: 3 Things That All Interns Should Know (Originally Posted: 11/14/2012)
As everyone gears up for Summer Analyst recruiting, I’m pretty sure many of you have formulated various strategies and back up plans. What will you do if you don’t get that coveted Sales and Trading Internship? Would you accept an operations offer? Would you try moving to the front office?
This is mighty tricky business and you might just want to keep trying for a mid market firm’s S&T. But what if you’ve tried everything, the offer is expiring and this is your last resort?
Last summer, I faced the same challenge so allow me to now reveal some of my personal do’s and don’ts that you might want to consider as you devise a plan to get to the front. 1. Focus on the task at hand:
Moral of the story: Make calculated moves, be careful who you speak to and always get the offer first!
So you didn't get the offer from the Back Office and you are giving advice? LMFAO
He's learned from his mistakes and his telling others about how to not make these same mistakes. How is that bad?
You lax bro?
So while being ambitious is a highly sought after trait on the street, over ambition can sometimes lead to your downfall. That same "over ambition" helped me overcome this setback and secure an offer at a HF right out of College.
FYI - Your name is misspelled.
how?
Madam, I've warned you before, the bankerella approach is not quite working. She was a legend and you, I suggest to find your own identity here. just some kind note. Nice effort anyway.
Nothing wrong with artistic expression from a tranny! I'll take the work of Lana Wachowski over Michael Bay any day of the week...I'm getting giddy just imagining how awesome Jupiter Ascending will undoubtedly be.
Goodbye, BO to FO Jump (Originally Posted: 09/20/2011)
My old man works at UBS, and he was telling me about another consequence of the Adoboli "rogue trader" case: the end of bringing in employees from the back office or trade support to the front office.
The reason is simple: these guys know firm processes and procedures, and thus, know the weaknesses in firm protocols which allow them to pull off episodes like the rogue trader case. Adoboli worked in the back office before being brought in to the Delta-1 group, so he was obviously familiar with the firm's protocols, which allowed him to take advantage of them and book the false trades.
Has anyone else heard this at their firm? Will the ops--> trading path cease to exist as a result of this episode? Has breaking into a front office trading gig become that much harder?
Don't mean to sound harsh but this is the question weaklings ask for assurance that everything will work out because they don't understand how the world works. Like the millions of responses to this question before me; yes, it is possible. However, it is EXTREMELY unlikely, and the way to do so is very difficult and wrapped in luck.
That seems like a fairly short-sighted and knee-jerk reaction to the situation, so yeah, that's probably exactly what will happen.
Sure there's plenty of exceptions, but very uncommon. BO doesn't really have any transferable skill sets, and if was reviewing laterals would take a 2nd year Big 4 acountant anyday over an internal BO.
lasalle
There is lots of advantages to knowing firm policies and whatnot, not everyone is out to fraud the firm for billions. Also as arrogant the FO office to accept such a thing makes little sense, so your saying the BO office folks have a better understanding of firm policies and protocols than those who start in the FO?
Not so much the policies and protocols, but the actual process of booking a trade, and the support systems that go with it. Someone who moves from Ops to Trading knows all the ins and outs of the trade booking process; he is also more likely to have a friend who would be willing to participate in a rogue trader situation.
I disagree with your post. Think about it, if you doing something illegal and don't want to spend five to ten years in jail, wouldn't you use any and all measures to cover it up? That means you will spend time learning how the processes and operations work before executing your strategy. If I'm committing high profile fraud, you bet I would research and learn the ins and outs of all operational and accounting protocols before execution. Hell, I might know it before than BO's employees themselves.
This may be a knee jerk reaction but why not? It's not like FO is severely understaffed and can't find the talent, firms do like to employ from within but there could well be a legitimate regulatory issue here. And some regulator may spot the opportunity to get their face in the paper and jump at it.
It may be that I tend to see the good in people but I don't believe that people set out do to fraud, they don't wake up one day and think lets fraud this shit. To me it's a more gradual process, a trade goes down the pan, another goes, alarm bells start ringing and the trader looks for an out in the market, that fails...and if the trader isn't familiar with BO one would assume BO wouldn't be their first port of call for getting out of the mess they're in, eliminating the ability to cover up the previous losses within an adequate time frame to go undetected and accrue such large negative positions.
The new Chinese wall between BO and FO, coming to your firm summer 2013.
There was an article about this in Business Insider. I think it's hard enough to go from BO to FO, so I don't believe this will make it that much more difficult. As some mentioned above, the "rogue" ScoGen trader was also a BO to FO guy, and that didn't seem to really kill off the move for those able to pull it off.
I'm sure this has been previously mentioned, but didn't many European banks create a rule prohibiting the jump from bo to the actual desk you support as a result of the SocGen trader? It wasn't an outright ban on moving from back office to front office, it just had to be a different desk.
It really doesn't matter whether you know the firm's processes or not. I could have booked a repo and wired myself a couple mil. at my old job, someone would have figured it out pretty quickly even if I paid off the couple people who checked that stuff.
if you haven't read the book Rogue Trader, go do so. it's pretty apparent that incompetency has to go quite a ways up the chain in order for something like this to happen.
i think i replied to this exact same post after the kerviel thing in 2007. no, this isnt the end of people from the back-office getting front-office jobs. i know i would hire a good back office person if he was hard working and smart and a job was available. so thats one.
It's actually a pretty funny way to deal with the problem, i can picture the meeting...."OK, in response to this embarassment we need to create an iron-clad trade support process that doesnt allow trading assistants to hide billion dollar trades for months.....hmmm...actually that sounds like it might take alot of work.....OK on second thought I guess we can just only hire people who are too dumb to understand the accounting systems! Ok that one is decided, now let's go get a drink." ...nice logic...only on wall st....
Your main worry is not BO rogue traders. Your main worry is that the FO will not be recruiting this year.
agreed!
Career Plan to move from Back Office to Front Office (Originally Posted: 11/07/2015)
Hi, I graduate next year and I'll be taking an analyst job in back office. How should I plan my career to move to front office?
I've encountered this question a lot. What's your astrological sign?
If you're an Aries you'll want to apply for a front office role in the Spring.
If you're a Capricorn you should wait until you have an MBA or Masters equivalent.
If you're a Sagittarius, you'll want to have your first born out of wedlock before applying.
Virgos should seek the help of a local shaman before trying to lateral. If you're a Scorpio you're pretty much fucked and condemned to a life in the back office...
If you're a Libra get fucked, you're barely data entry material
Recruit now and reneg if you get something better is your best bet.
I already signed the offer. I'm actually an engineering major (computer science) at an ivy, and for various reasons, it's really hard to get a job outside of IT in finance. Is there anyway to transition? Thanks!
I understand that you signed the offer - you should keep recruiting. If you are at an ivy you definitely have a good shot at finding a new FO position before you start.
I was thinking of getting my "foot in the door" as a BA in BO. Or am I just being unrealistic? The main problem is that all my internships were in pure software engineering.. it's hard to make a good case to recruiters in finance to hire me for FO positions. What could I do after I start working next year? Thanks for your input!!
how can I go from IT BO to FO?? (Originally Posted: 08/25/2017)
Hi guys, I'm currently working in regulatory support IT at HSBC. I mainly work with MO for handling trades that were rejected from regulators. I want to move up to FO in the future, and I have few plans set up to potentially make it work. 1. I majored in Financial Engineering 2. CFA lvl 1 (DEC 2017) 3. a lot of networking within my company, but I do not really have much chance to talk with FO..
After about 2 years of working in my role, I am looking to apply for transition with the above. Any suggestions to improve my likeliness to successfully transfer?
Wait for a service request
But in all seriousness, cfa will help a lot. And keep an open mind when you're trying to break in. Don't limit yourself to "ib or bust".
Cfa will not help for IB FO. Maybe some sort of investment management role. Best advice is to go to bschool or network.
Ya sure u can be front office receptionist at JT Marlin, bring in 80k/yr
What Are My Advantages? If offered Internal Transfer, from Back Office to Front Office Trading. (Originally Posted: 10/20/2015)
Hi all,
Hope all is well!!
I am an example of those who have front office qualification, but started at back office... just feel a little bit puzzled, looking for your help.
Before coming to USA, I worked on an FX Trading Desk in Asia. After Master's graduation I was only able to start my first job in USA, as a back office Trade Support at one BB, because of the difficulty for international students to find a job (I could not get front office interviews because I needed H1B sponsorship). Through my hard work and good performance in back office, finally after 15 months, recently I got a chance to join my front office trading team.
So... I highly appreciate you could share with me any of your opinions on: 1) How I could utilize my back office experience in front office? 2) What will be my advantages in the bank, after the internal transfer? For now, I sincerely hope I could have a long-term trading career at my current bank. To become a top top trader on a specific desk, and to bring my bank from currently 2nd-tier to top-tier in the industry.
Thank you so much for your sharing and kindness, in advance!
With kind regards, BChen
Still can't buy Cristal with Starwood points.
1) You are familiar with the systems. You know the people in back office, which will facilitate communication. That's about it. 2) You'll be in a profit centre instead of cost centre. Higher pay, bonus potential etc.
Did you already get the offer to join a trading desk or are you applying internally and looking for answers to potential interview questions?
Good to see you are ambitious and you want to take your trading desk to the next level, but would tone that down a bit. You are not yet a rainmaker who will lift the overall performance ;-)
Hi Chewie,
Greatly appreciate your reply! Thank you for your suggestion. Yes, I will tone down going forward... Just wanted to show my ambition to reward an employer who gave me the trust.
I applied internally and am looking for answers to this potential interview questions. Passed 2 rounds' interview and the last round with the MD, will be on next Mon.
Do you have any other advice on questions to get prepared? Is there anything I should be very careful during the interview?
Thank you!!
With kind regards, BChen
It's funny how all the recent graduates' Qs are "URGENT" (in caps) and ask about whether they are "fucked" or "screwed" and whether they should include their $1,000 portfolio "they manage generating 50% returns" in resume. And yet millennials keep telling people that the stereotype is false.
OP, everything is possible in life. You can move to FO or you can move to sales job in bumblefuck city. If you are just starting out on a new job, STFU and work hard at your job no matter what it is. You may like BO, just like some people like McD over In-n-Out.
BO software engineer to FO (Originally Posted: 04/18/2012)
I've been a lurker of WSO for some time and have extensively read Mergers and Inquistions. So here is my situation. I've been in a software engineering role at a BB for about 4 years. My degree was in CS from a no-name state school in FL with a 3.0 GPA. After working at a bank for quite some time I've become more and more interested in FO finance, ofcourse like most people the money is good but more importantly its a career that gives you the fast track to some type of upper management. Now for the few assets I have that might help me break into this field. I've just finished the first semester of my MBA at UF (yea nothing great again), I'm a hard worker, and very easy to get along with. I'm planning on taking a hiatus from my MBA to focus on Internship opportunities, basically trying to get my hands onto anything, particularly IB or S&T, doesn't need a salary and can be anywhere in the nation. I've started networking/cold-calling in the Tampa area and of course internal networking at my BB. So far most of my external networking has been asking questions about the career and seeking advice on how to break in, rather then flat out asking for internships or FT opportunities. Whether this is a good or bad networking strategy, please let me know.
I got concerned after reading a recent post related to boutique banking. Someone mentioned a 2nd year analyst making about $100-$150K at a boutique bank even though this person worked significantly less hours as compared to a BB. Honestly, I make the low end of that number in Florida which has a pretty affordable CoL. Combined with substandard exit opportunities in boutiques I'm really thinking if that would be a worthwhile career move. If I'm getting ahead of myself please let me know. I'm 27 about to be 28 in a few months if anyone has any advice, even if it is "the train has passed" it would be greatly appreciated.
this thread has relevant info (make sure to check out flake's other older q&a as well) -- http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/qa-with-flake-%E2%80%9Cdon%E2%80%99…
good luck
Most people go with Investment Banking because of the exit opportunities at like age 24/25 (namely a top business school degree to get into a more profitable or more relaxed field (PE vs. Corporate Finance). If you can get a top 10 Business School with 700+ GMAT you should be able to get a FO finance job. BTW software engineer is a really good profession if your looking to make 200K for the rest of your life after getting to director/whatever or you could get CTO of a smaller company which would set you up nicely for biz school. PM me if you want
^Assuming your considering transferring to a top business school
Husky, thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, my GMAT is mid/low 600. No where near top school caliber. My number one goal right now is to try and network internally, since I will be able to get recommendations from my boss if I'm moving around in the same organization. Its going to be tons of work, but I'm hoping asking for an internship or some kind of rotation program will make it a easier entry point, more importantly it will tell me if I'm cut out for the grunt work.
As for programming, unlike most programmers you see here I definitely don't resent my career, will I like to make more money? Of course who doesn't? If I stay in this career you're right I'll be looking to move out of BO and go into some kind of startup or smaller company.
Now here is the million dollar question when it comes to MBA. As I said earlier I'm pursing my MBA from UF. Why you may ask? Well for one my GMAT score sucks, two I have a house, family, and a career in FL, and third it is the best MBA program in the state. I'm giving a serious consideration to moving to NY or Chicago even if it is for the same career. If I was to get a MBA from say Loyola or DePaul in Chicago, even though they are un-ranked, would they offer better opportunities?
Maybe your situation is different but a recommendation from your boss will mean very little to anyone in non-IT/non-infrastructure divisions of your bank.
I know someone who worked in IT, took the GMAT again and dropped out of a shitty part-time MBA program to attend a top 10 b-school full time. That person interned at MBB during the MBA summer and has an offer lined up for after graduation. If you are willing to move to a different city and attend a different business school, what's stopping you from re-taking the GMAT and applying to something like Booth?
I realize it's one of those "I know a guy..." stories but it doesn't sound like that much of a reach if you are dedicated (getting into U. of Chicago is harder than I just made it sound, but even if you got into a top 20 school that's still something). Just hit that reset button...or you can just rely on someone in IBD to give a shit about what your boss in IT has to say.
I would love to say I'm going to a Top 10 MBA program but it seems further out of reach then networking my way into IB. I just don't have the test taking aptitude to crank out a 700+ on the GMAT, combined with my 3.0 from no name state school, I would probably even need a higher GMAT score. UIUC/IU are both pretty good schools in the Chicago vicinity and I just might be able to get into them, but if the chance to completely switch careers is slim with those schools, then why waste the opportunity costs of quitting a full time job, putting the house up for rent/sale, etc.
Back onto the topic of Boutiques, should I continue to network with them or do you guys feel they would be wasteful to someone who already has a stable career?
Why should a boutique take you? Why do you think that will be easier than an internal move? You are still presented with the same constraints. The problem is not the size or type of the firm, it's your profile. You are putting all your eggs into that networking basket, which is great, it can help but that's all you got and it is a long shot.
Why can't you get a higher GMAT? What makes you think you are capable of handling IBD's workload or even the simplest quantitative aspects of trading if you can't dedicate a few weeks to improving high school level math and verbal skills?
If you like your job, you like the stability, you seem relatively content with the money you are making, then why are you moving at all? You should be hungrier than that.
All very good questions. You're right I should be hungrier then that, consequently since networking is all I got its tough to feel like "I got this". The only reason I feel I have a chance of getting a internship at boutique's is because 1) UF is the best school in Florida. Sure outside the state its trash, but it might help me get a leg up on the local competition 2) I feel they probably don't have structured recruiting practice, especially if I'm asking to work for free. It goes without saying, that most MD's at these boutique's come from pedigree, although I've seen Raymond James has some UF guys in their IBD. I've taken the GMAT twice, its not like I put it away in the first shot. I'm planning on taking it one more time, just to give me some kind of confirmation that I can do better then UF.
None the less I gotta capitalize on my strengths, even if they are meager. At the same time hedging my career propects.
Flake, if you don't mind I'm going to pick your brain again. I just got off the phone with a Hedge Fund manager in Tampa. Pretty much just a informational interview. No talk about asking for jobs or anything. His first recommendation you need to narrow down what you want to do, even if you're not sure sell it like that is what you want to do. Totally makes sense. As for his background, Duke MBA, GS AM. Since IB is what is popular and loaded with wealth of information around the internet, this is the topic I focused on. These were his responses for the various FO categories. S&T, don't bother doing it, it has become very computerized, IB very hard to get into and trash work, AM easier to into (still want to learn what they do on a day to day), PWM another easier avenue to get into and very lucrative. Only reason I shunned off PWM, because it seemed very salesmen like. Maybe thats my introvert engineering side speaking. I expected IB to be the easiest to break into because it seems there are way more boutique's that do M&A work then anything else.
The lateral will certainly not be at the same seniority level, but yes, this does happen from time to time in rare instances.
Mizuho Securities moving BO to FO (Originally Posted: 03/25/2015)
Hey guys,
anyone have work experience with these guys? Sick NYC office and seems like they are trying to grow their presence here. Ill be in the BO and trying to grind my way to FO.
Any insight would be a great help.
Haven't worked there but I've talked to some alums and they are definitely trying to grow their presence in the US. Solid Healthcare banking practice and willing to utilize their balance sheet. Culture in FO is pretty nice and there is some good responsibility to be had.
no
Back Office to Front Office Possible? (Originally Posted: 11/02/2017)
Hello fellow WSO Readers,
Just like the title suggests, I'm seeking career advice for my future career path and exit opps. I'm currently a full time employee at a local investment firm (West Coast) as a client service associate. This is my first FT job right after college so I'm pretty content for now. However, I wanted to get some advice on how I should plan my exit opps and career advancement.
As a CSA, I work under the clearing services department where it's mainly back office work for retail and institutional brokers. After 1 year of working, the firm sponsors your Series 7 and 66 (which I plan to study and take it ASAP). Most of the new hires are recent college grads and they tend to leave after 1-2 years because of no raises and upper management.
Would the Series 7 and 66 with 1-2 yrs of experience be marketable enough for me to land an analyst job?
I'm mostly thinking about branching out to PWM or RE analyst role positions. It seems like traditional IB route is highly unlikely due to not having any SA jobs as my undergrad.
Any feedback would be great help. Thanks.
Hey MulahKing, I'm here to break the silence...any of these links help you?:
More suggestions...
Hope that helps.
Going from BO to FO, need to revamp wardrobe? (Originally Posted: 01/12/2014)
Managed to go from a 6 month Back office internship to a 6 month Front office internship in FX Sales, bulge bracket bank.
I always wear dress pants, black shoes and a shirt at my BO gig, I wasn't forced to wear this but I felt more professional doing so and as an intern, I felt that I should do this for networking and an all around professional look.
Now, I'm starting a 6 month internship in FX Sales. As this is front office and I'll be working on the trading floor, I was wondering if I should buy some new clothes.. I was planning on buying a new pair of shoes. I currently have two pairs that are decent for BO but in my mind, not so much for FO. As the BO internship was my first experience, I didn't buy anything too expensive so my shoes cost something like $70-80 each. I was thinking of getting a nice $200-300 pair. What do you think?
I'll probably have to wear dress pants and a shirt during my FO internship so I dunno if I need to buy fancier clothes.
No one gives a fuck. You're an intern. Spend half the time you're worrying about clothes on doing your job and you'll be okay.
Haha seriously. Get some baller shoes if that makes you feel better...but your current wardrobe is most likely appropriate for the trading floor. Dress shirt, slacks, decent shoes and you're set. Just don't get suede Gucci loafers or some shit, unless you want to be laughed off the floor of course.
As everyone else has already said, it doesn't really matter. Just don't wear a blue shirt with a white collar, a red tie, & cuff links. Look conservative and try to blend in with your attire.
Breaking Out of BO to FO through networking (Originally Posted: 10/07/2016)
Hello All,
I recently graduated from a non-target but top 10 public business school in May and am currently working BO at a local AM shop. Now I could go on all day about how much the BO sucks but to describe how I feel about the BO in the words of a coworker: "If they ever taught a monkey how to do my job I would be fucked."
So, yeah. That is basically where I am at and I've been networking my ass off to break into finance. I've recently sent out 50 emails and LinkedIn messages to former school alumni and connections of friends and I have a bunch of information meetings set up.
I pretty much know what I am going to ask in terms of getting to know the positions including background questions, company questions, and really anything that will keep them talking until I ultimately pull the trigger and ask for an interview. However, I'm here to ask for any advice or questions that any of you may have asked or lead onto that ultimately won you the job.
Please let me know what you guys think and I can dive into a little bit more about my background listed below:
Thanks!
Honestly with a C to P ratio as such you must chell AF and will be crushing deals in no time.
Reminds me of McCoy
Edit to add some serious input
Sounds like you're doing everything that you should be doing. IMHO, moving BO to FO is not as hard as it is made out to be. Just like getting to the gym, the people who succeed at moving BO to FO are the ones who actually get up off their ass just do it.
Obviously there is no 'golden bullet,' as they say, but kissing some alumni ass and networking day after day is really the best way to make that move. The expression "it's all about who you know" is generic, but only because it's the god honest truth.
Sent out another 50 messages and still going strong!
I'm starting to wonder if the reason I have so many issues with the BO is they don't put any effort into their actual jobs as they all want to move to the FO, going by the volume of posts on WSO.
Hope for all back-office rats (Originally Posted: 01/24/2008)
the back office may eventually lead to trading AT SOC GEN!!!!!!!!, in fact its a pre-requisite!!!
dont lose hope boys
Back office guys have historically had a long shot chance of making the front office - a reward for bright, smart guys that have worked hard. Nick Leeson may have been dimissed as a one-off but Jerome Kerviel makes it a trend now. Any auditor/consultant risk reports will now explicitly spell out that this is an unacceptable risk.
This is a real shame because it looks pretty apparant to me that this was a cover-up from the more senior guys and Kerviel has taken the blame.
I didnt ever consider this being the case in reality but but it did make me think what I would do....
If you're SocGen CEO, making say 20-50 million a year(not this yr :p ) and a 7-10 bln loss will cost you your job, resulting in a 50 milion golden parachute and you'd basically never run another company again, would you pay a lowly trader 25mm to take all the heat and disappear in order to secure another 3-7 years of a 20-50 mm annual income?
if you were the lowly trader, what would the price be to take the heat and disappear? or even not disappear and just take it on the chin, since it looks like hes only facing like 3 yrs of jail.
an extra $25m (if that was what it took) could be easily fudged into the losses.
well didn't Eurex point to krievel possibly taking unauthorized positions? The derivatives exchnage ain't gonna lie for Societe. Trick Eurex? Maybe. What about the fake documents to hide the trades and the fake Deutsche Bank email? They have a shitload of detailed evidence on how this went down over the last several months. They simply couldn't have planned this out after the fact to cover something else.
Besides, what about the compliance officers and all the other employees seeing this supposed conspiracy go down? Not one is going to let out even a little rumor- not even in a bar- half drunk?
Conspiracy theories are fun, but not realistic.
Plus, if Kerviel were really getting some huge payoff to act as the scapegoat, he wouldn't be telling the press "I refuse to take responsibility for their writedowns/mistakes"
you're an idiot, I'm not going cotinue this.
If there's no reason to doubt the accuracy of journalism reporting, the eurex statements, and the authorities- then YES I WILL BELIEVE THEM. Just start a blog, you conspiracy nut.
(Don't bother responding to this unless you have DETAILED EVIDENCE to give me that contradicts with what the authorities have told us)
unless you are willing to accept that you might be wrong.
Here are some articles that question the validity of the claim that Kerviel acted alone.
I'd really rather you didn't continue since there appears to be no value in debating anything with you. Just what exactly are you a Master of?
hey numbnuts, most of your links aren't relevant to what you're saying.
The only one that purports a major fraud is the nytimes op-ed piece. I have high respect for the times, but I can accept there are conspiracy fools there too.
I'm a master of cutting your little penis of and sticking it up your fat whore of mother's ass. I'm done and I'm happy with this thread.
It was posted yesterday morning. Nobody talks about my....penis...and gets away with it...
im not quite sure I understand his underlying motive for this. Had he been sucessful wouldnt there have been red flags raised for a spike in risk. Back in the 90s when Leeson was busted the bank realized that no one was able to make that type of money arbitraging and the profit was indeed from prop trading. The rest of course is history
did you get your degree in Burgernomics yet? http://www.reuters.com/article/pressReleasesMolt/idUSWEA797920080523
[quote=John Mack]did you get your degree in Burgernomics yet? http://www.reuters.com/article/pressReleasesMolt/idUSWEA797920080523[/q…] Lol. Master must feel stupid.
Will poor reviews/bonus at a previous BO job hurt when changing jobs into FO? (Originally Posted: 08/31/2011)
I have been working in a BO type job at a big bank and chose to go to grad school (top target) to rebrand and get into a more FO type of role.
Because I already received an offer from the school, I find very little motivation in working hard at the BO job. If i get poor rankings low bonus (although all bonuses in BO are shit no matter how good you perform), will this hurt me when looking for another job? Would HR at other companies find out about my previous performance/bonus or should I not be worried?
Will be changing locations btw. Asia -> UK
>Will be changing locations btw. Asia -> UK
Bring water, food for at least 6 months, gold coins, a torch and pepper spray.
please, anyone have any inputs?
You're fine. Just as nobody would give a shit about an amazing BO performance, your poor one will be overlooked as well. It's all about that top school of yours and the MBA internships/networking from now on.
Agreed with Flake. The only issue with references tends to be when you're moving within an area that people know each other, and can make an informal call - no way some head of a trading desk will bother calling an ops guy in Asia for a reference - it will be done most likely via HR.
anyone else care to comment?
I know this may sound embarrasing, but when looking for a job at school, and companies ask for previous salary/bonus, would they be suspicious if first yr bonus is 5K and second yr is zero?
BO to FO interview - advice needed! (Originally Posted: 07/29/2012)
Hey guys!
I'm a regular reader of WSO & really love the website! It helped me get a summer analyst position at a european BB firm.
I go to a non-target school in NYC & have some prior ibanking experience at a boutique.
I'm finishing up a BO/MO 'finance' summer analyst position at a BB & im pretty positive I'll receive an offer since I haven't screwed up & my team loves me.
But I want to IBD & have been networking with a few bankers at the firm. Best route is to turn down the offer and ask for a IBD interview. I'm not sure but I doubt they'll give me an interview for IBD in the current market. I know it has been done before 2-3 years ago. But not recently. I am pretty cool with my recruiter thou.
Any advice or experience on this issue? Again my school is non target & Full time recruiting is looking extremely competitive. But I rather not do this crap after I graduate.
Ty in advance!
Please any advice would be appreciated since I have little time !
Presumably, you do not have to accept or reject the offer on the spot. Just say thanks and this is great. Then ask someone in HR, not your direct group, if you can interview for other positions in the firm. Also, interview at as many firms as you can during the fall. It might be tougher to interview at your current firms than others.
Thanks! Just worried they might renege my offer in my current division if I ask for IBD.
Advice for move: Big Bank Deep Back Office/IT to HF (Originally Posted: 09/17/2014)
I have been searching tirelessly for advice on this topic for over a year... Here's my story:
Joined the military after high school, completed my service and went to Penn State for a degree in IT. Found a passion for the markets in my junior year but chose to stick with my major.
Currently, I work at a big 4 bank in IT. I've been here for a half year and I am trying to work internally to get into Asset Management. I'm assuming that asset management is a stepping stone to HF? Things are not looking too good, so I'm mulling over these options:
A) Pursue a CFA while working in IT and continue to work internally to get into asset management role B) Start applying externally to IB, AM, and HFs without a finance background C) Leave IT at 2 yr mark; go to b-school D) Other
Thank you.
C
Psu is a good school. What are your stats? Assume you were an E in the military - what was your mos/rate?
Flake, thank you, but if you don't mind, why C?
td12, PSU would have been great if I studied finance. The street likes our student run fund. I got a As, I was an E-4, and I was an enlisted aviator - Loadmaster.
What was your Gpa? A's so u had a 4.0? Have u sat for GMAT?
C.
You've got a lot going for you. Former military, CS undergrad, a few years work out in the private sector and if you get a solid B-school network and recruiting behind you... World will be wide open. Just start data mining this site for as much information as possible and get it done.
Good luck.
td12, my bad, 3.7, did not sit yet. ArcherVice, thank you for the advice, it made my day. I'm currently talking to a recruiter internally from the private bank. I think working over there might be a good choice before going to b-school. Any thoughts?
Private bank as in a private banking analyst, not private bank IT...It's a long shot but it's worth a shot.
Looks like the Private Bank move is not going to work out.
At my 2 yr mark, I'm considering going to NYU's Part-Time MBA program and contiunue working in bank IT. I figure that I will continue to make money while going to school part-time and then do an internal move to IB or AM. Some people have told me to just leave and go full time at a top 20 school. Thoughts? I'm currently studying for the GMAT. Any direction you guys could offer would be much apreciated.
Looks like the Private Bank move is not going to work out.
At my 2 yr mark, I'm considering going to NYU's Part-Time MBA program and contiunue working in bank IT. I figure that I will continue to make money while going to school part-time and then do an internal move to IB or AM. Some people have told me to just leave and go full time at a top 20 school. Thoughts? I'm currently studying for the GMAT. Any direction you guys could offer would be much apreciated.
Contract worker at BB BO getting in touch with FO for opening (Originally Posted: 12/09/2014)
Hi, I'm currently a 1st year with a Big 4 Consulting division in the APAC region, and I've been seconded out to the back office of a BB to do AML work; 5 months and counting.
I'm thinking of moving to the front office, and I know that the bank has analyst positions open at the moment. I also know who the hiring managers are for some of these roles.
I'd appreciate some feedback on what would be the best way to contact these managers:
Contact through internal mail/PM (after office hours, as we're charging the bank by the hour so it's probably not very professional to be job searching while charging out)
Contact through personal email
Another issue is the timing. I am scheduled to be on this job for another 3 months, and I'm tossing up between getting in touch right now, or doing it after my engagement is finished. I wouldn't want word getting back to my managers and getting fired over this, but this role might be filled if I wait too long.
Thanks for the input guys!
It all depends breh. Good news is, I have seen it happen before.
First, dont do a thing before the hiring managers know you. I mean, really know you. As in- they like your work and would be happy to have you on the team. This is the most important thing and literally the best part of being a consultant- your being able to build a rapport and network with those in industry. Find the person (no email) and simply say:
"I am a consultant working on site, but I've always has an interest in in your role/type of work. If you have a second, I would love to grab a coffee/beer and maybe discuss your background"
The more your CV does not align with the skills for the role, the more of a rapport youre going to need.
Ive seen several guys come in from IT service providers or Compliance consultants (while I was on the trading side of things). They would come in and do their thing and most of us barely knew who they were or wth they were doing. Eventually a few would come over and awkwardly tell my head trader how much they 'liked the markets/wanted to be on the team'. The boss would give the same non-descrip advice: "Keep working hard/I'll keep you in mind" . Consultant leaves thinking he is on his way to the FO, while the boss would forget their name altogether. That is not rapport.
So in short, you have to build a relationship (sooner than later). Great thing about this is that you can do this without your current firm knowing (there is nothing wrong for having a drink with one of your clients). Once you have a rapport, take your shot. Dont waste your bullet on a random email that will most likely get sent to the trash
Thanks man, that sounds like good advice, looks like i'll need to personally get in touch with the guy.
Slight problem though: The back office (where I'm at) is physically separated from the front office. It's in the tech hub a few clicks away from the CBD, where the front office is.
Do you think it would be worthwhile to PM him on the inter-office chat to set up a meeting? I reckon that'd just get brushed aside like an email
I wouldn't ping a manager. Most people hate getting pinged at work. I would email, and ask for a moment of their time to offer advice on how you can improve your chances based off your experience
I guess if you cant physically make the intro, than an email will have to suffice. I agree with the poster above, I would stay away from using any PM or intranet IM.
Keep it casual and ask for a quick chat. And refrain from using subjects that can be shot down with a quick 'no' or a brush off.
BO ----> FO (Originally Posted: 04/14/2016)
There are a good amount of investment management firms in my city. As someone with a CPA, I think I could easily obtain a position as a reporting analyst or some sort of accounting role. From there, is there any way to the front office?
Dude, before you create 50 new threads to ask a single question, why don't you spend some quality time with the search function. It will answer your Audit --> ER, differences between credit research and ER, and this question -- (although this will be augmented by simply searching in the company DB). People will be happy to help if you still have questions, but take advantage of what is already out there
My mistake. I'll look around a bit from now on before I post.
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