Top Reasons for being a FIG Analyst
Hello everyone,
I have been lurking around for sometime, but was too lazy to post/express my views.
To give everyone esp prosp. monkeys a background of myself. I just finished my 6 month placement internship at GS/MS/JPM in the FIG team with a FT offer based out of London. Some might say I am only a beginner, but the truth I have probably been in banking for as much time if not more than the 1st Year IBD analysts. I recently came across a lot of negative posts relating to FIG such as need to get out of there, too technical, dry and intangible.
I am here to give my 2 cents so that the prospective monkeys have a general idea of the sector.
- Yes FIG is technical. I covered the traditional banks primarily focusing on emerging markets. In my 6 months, I was able to work on 4 deals (1 Recapitalization, 2 follow on offerings and 1 debt offering). I might not have done M&A but I was able to do more deals than other analysts with my point being that if you were to join FIG, you would have generally more exposure to a stronger deal flow than your peers in other coverage teams, which is what really counts, and buyside firms look at it favorably. Yes I might not have done M&A but you still are exposed to valuations either in a restructuring or follow offering. For the debt deal to be honest, I ended up just making the roadshow presentation so nothing substantial there.
- I don't think one can pigeonhole themselves by being in FIG. My take on this is that buyside firms generally know that most analysts are an excel/ppt processing machine, but FIG fine tunes your mind into understanding/appreciate the finer details. From what I have heard, 1-2 years as a FIG analyst will not "taint" you as a FIG banker. In fact, FIG's rep of being analytically driven etc may end up working to your advantage. Yes, you should also know about EBITDA based valuations, but that is something which I believe one can easily learn, or atleast firms can teach an analyst if he was join given he has the right aptitude and is committed.
- My team is one of the best in London, and so is our counterpart in NY. HOWEVER, I would like to dispel the rumor that other BBs teams would not fare well in terms of exit options. Citi, UBS, DB, ML all have strong franchises in both London and NY. Most people tend to look at the wallet share to gauge an idea of how well the team is doing, but it happens that sometimes banks do deals for free just to maintain relationship. Your MD cares about the money but as an analyst all you should pay heed to is the modeling exposure that you might get. If a deal happens but your bank doesnt paid, you shouldnt care if you got a deal under your belt. I downloaded data of Thomson Reuters and as of 2012 FY in EMEA, the top 3 FIG teams were GS/JPM/Citi. Having said that, almost every BB I know of, their FIG team generates the highest % of revenue across the IBD division.
- If you are currently in FIG and not liking it, my recommendation would be to stick it out for atleast a year and then switch to a different coverage team. That way I believe you would have the advantage of knowing about one of the most specialized sectors (FIG) as well as a generic one (TMT, Consumer, Industrials) Better profile for PE.
- If you do end up remaining in FIG, you should have a decent chance of getting into the buyside albeit FIG. Why? Because there's a decent number of FIG related PE shops (though sovereign wealth funds are big into FIG stuff) and such shops can only hire or only look to hire analysts with FIG background. Every BB and boutique has a FIG team, but that's your only competition. If you for instance were to aim for a generalist PE shop, you would be competing with kids from Consumer, TMT, Industrials, Healthcare, M&A Generalist and the list goes on..my point: less competition.
- Stone point Capital, JC Flowers, Oak Tree Capital, CVC are a few FIG PE shops that currently come to my mind, but there's a high number of shops out there. I am not sure if most mega funds have FIG related funds though. Carlyle Group is the only one I can think of right now over the top of my head.
- This might be a biased point, but FIG should position you well for b-school. If you are doing FIG in EMEA amidst European debt crisis, where all types of fucked up shit is happening with banks (debt deals, equity deals, massive recapitalization), you have sort of different experience to show off from the regular TMT, Consumer banker,
This again is my personal view. If anyone feels like disagreeing, please feel free to post. I just want this to be an educational post for people currently in FIG and not liking it, but more importantly for those monkeys who have questions about which teams to join.
I've seen a number of GS and
I've seen a number of GS and JPM FIG guys transition to really good buyout shops. I also have talked to a couple FIG analysts at other places that really struggled to find buyside gigs.
Newspeak: I've seen a number
I've seen a number of GS and JPM FIG guys transition to really good buyout shops. I also have talked to a couple FIG analysts at other places that really struggled to find buyside gigs.
Fair enough, but I think that can be said for any sector. Some people will make it while some don't. Other factors matter too for instance networking, and rankings bla bla.
One thing I have noticed about London is that networking is not taken as seriously as it is in the US. Those who do network in London usually do so because they are either well informed by reading up on forums like WSO or went to a non target uni and had to network hard to get a IB gig hence have the determination/drive....
But, I do want to know that those FIG analysts acquaintances of yours at BBs, were they able to secure interviews atleast at some buyout shops? That I assume should not be that tough. Screwing up the interviews is different.
Yea, they ended up at places
Yea, they ended up at places but they mentioned it was harder for them.
Yea, they ended up at places
Yea, they ended up at places but they mentioned it was harder for them.
Well, thanks for sharing. Can
Well, thanks for sharing. Can anybody else verify this info added above by "germany0" or add their own views on this? Primarily looking for views from ppl currently in the industry or were in the past.
Thanks.
Not sure where the MYTH that
Not sure where the MYTH that FIG doesn't place well comes from. The FIG guys I know did the best for placement, a LOT end up at HF's for one reason or another.
1. among the industry groups,
1. among the industry groups, FIG has the highest proportion of analysts interested in HF opportunities
2. GS/MS/JPM FIG analysts place just fine into buyout shops (GS FIG is a top group and a feeder into megafunds) but I have seen analysts at FIG at other banks have trouble placing at good shops, likely a combination of the FIG skillset and the quality/performance of the bank/group/analyst. EXCEPTIONS OBVIOUSLY EXIST but I have found my above statement to be the trend.
ricottacheese: 1. among the
1. among the industry groups, FIG has the highest proportion of analysts interested in HF opportunities
2. GS/MS/JPM FIG analysts place just fine into buyout shops (GS FIG is a top group and a feeder into megafunds) but I have seen analysts at FIG at other banks have trouble placing at good shops, likely a combination of the FIG skillset and the quality/performance of the bank/group/analyst. EXCEPTIONS OBVIOUSLY EXIST but I have found my above statement to be the trend.
Question: do they eventually get onto the buy side, or do they just end up remaining in FIG? Another possible option: corporate development or strategy at a fin. institution. The good thing I feel - though I am tooting my own horn here - is that once you do FIG for a couple of few years, you will always come across as an attractive hire to banks because you know their business inside out.
How do top boutique FIG
How do top boutique FIG analysts place into HF/PE? Think Sandler/KBW
I to be honest have not heard
I to be honest have not heard of them being big in EMEA, and I have abs. no idea how they place. I dont remember coming across any big FIG transaction in 2012 in which they were involved. Might be on smaller deals that do not makes waves.
ricottacheese: 1. among the
1. among the industry groups, FIG has the highest proportion of analysts interested in HF opportunities
2. GS/MS/JPM FIG analysts place just fine into buyout shops (GS FIG is a top group and a feeder into megafunds) but I have seen analysts at FIG at other banks have trouble placing at good shops, likely a combination of the FIG skillset and the quality/performance of the bank/group/analyst. EXCEPTIONS OBVIOUSLY EXIST but I have found my above statement to be the trend.
1. And this is from all the data you've collected? Seriously, which ass did you pull that out of?
2. Agree, but I worked at a mid-tier BB FIG group and we would send plenty of people to very good MM firms (think GTCR, Madison Dearborn). Sure, if you are a GS FIG analyst you are set up well, but a good FIG analyst at a BB will have good opps, provided he's not an idiot and "gets it." It's not the pigeonhole people make it out to be, but outside of GS and maybe MS/JPM it's definitely more dependent on the quality of the individual. The fact is that most junior bankers are not really that smart; being in FIG just exacerbates it. (i.e. a mediocre GS TMT analyst will have *much* better opps than a slightly better DB FIG analyst)
is it true that a lot of the
is it true that a lot of the valuation work is outsourced to actuaries though? i heard this from an SA that was working in the insurance companies vertical.
mrb87: ricottacheese: 1.
1. among the industry groups, FIG has the highest proportion of analysts interested in HF opportunities
2. GS/MS/JPM FIG analysts place just fine into buyout shops (GS FIG is a top group and a feeder into megafunds) but I have seen analysts at FIG at other banks have trouble placing at good shops, likely a combination of the FIG skillset and the quality/performance of the bank/group/analyst. EXCEPTIONS OBVIOUSLY EXIST but I have found my above statement to be the trend.
1. And this is from all the data you've collected? Seriously, which ass did you pull that out of?
2. Agree, but I worked at a mid-tier BB FIG group and we would send plenty of people to very good MM firms (think GTCR, Madison Dearborn). Sure, if you are a GS FIG analyst you are set up well, but a good FIG analyst at a BB will have good opps, provided he's not an idiot and "gets it." It's not the pigeonhole people make it out to be, but outside of GS and maybe MS/JPM it's definitely more dependent on the quality of the individual. The fact is that most junior bankers are not really that smart; being in FIG just exacerbates it. (i.e. a mediocre GS TMT analyst will have *much* better opps than a slightly better DB FIG analyst)
Are you doing FIG PE now? If not, what type of buyside role are you involved without being too much specific about your firm?
germany0: mrb87: ricottac
1. among the industry groups, FIG has the highest proportion of analysts interested in HF opportunities
2. GS/MS/JPM FIG analysts place just fine into buyout shops (GS FIG is a top group and a feeder into megafunds) but I have seen analysts at FIG at other banks have trouble placing at good shops, likely a combination of the FIG skillset and the quality/performance of the bank/group/analyst. EXCEPTIONS OBVIOUSLY EXIST but I have found my above statement to be the trend.
1. And this is from all the data you've collected? Seriously, which ass did you pull that out of?
2. Agree, but I worked at a mid-tier BB FIG group and we would send plenty of people to very good MM firms (think GTCR, Madison Dearborn). Sure, if you are a GS FIG analyst you are set up well, but a good FIG analyst at a BB will have good opps, provided he's not an idiot and "gets it." It's not the pigeonhole people make it out to be, but outside of GS and maybe MS/JPM it's definitely more dependent on the quality of the individual. The fact is that most junior bankers are not really that smart; being in FIG just exacerbates it. (i.e. a mediocre GS TMT analyst will have *much* better opps than a slightly better DB FIG analyst)
Are you doing FIG PE now? If not, what type of buyside role are you involved without being too much specific about your firm?
Not FIG PE
mrb87: ricottacheese: 1.
1. among the industry groups, FIG has the highest proportion of analysts interested in HF opportunities
2. GS/MS/JPM FIG analysts place just fine into buyout shops (GS FIG is a top group and a feeder into megafunds) but I have seen analysts at FIG at other banks have trouble placing at good shops, likely a combination of the FIG skillset and the quality/performance of the bank/group/analyst. EXCEPTIONS OBVIOUSLY EXIST but I have found my above statement to be the trend.
1. And this is from all the data you've collected? Seriously, which ass did you pull that out of?
2. Agree, but I worked at a mid-tier BB FIG group and we would send plenty of people to very good MM firms (think GTCR, Madison Dearborn). Sure, if you are a GS FIG analyst you are set up well, but a good FIG analyst at a BB will have good opps, provided he's not an idiot and "gets it." It's not the pigeonhole people make it out to be, but outside of GS and maybe MS/JPM it's definitely more dependent on the quality of the individual. The fact is that most junior bankers are not really that smart; being in FIG just exacerbates it. (i.e. a mediocre GS TMT analyst will have *much* better opps than a slightly better DB FIG analyst)
Wanted to ask my question again since you might have a better idea than the OP, being US based yourself. What types of options exist for someone having done 2-3 years FIG analyst at a FIG boutique- KBW/Sandler- obviously not placing into MF or larger MM funds like Madison Dearborn GTCR types, but is it possible (and more importantly is it common) for them to place into MM or lower MM PE? Thanks for the help.
mrb87: germany0: mrb87:
It is interesting that nobody
definitely, one of the best!
Spent a couple years in FIG
Bernanke23: Spent a couple
Newspeak: Bernanke23: Spent
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[quote=LBObuyout][quote=Berna