We are the 53%

id tap...http://goo.gl/cmMxV

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/the-fresh-1-percent-w…

Fresh Prince of 1 Percent

You don't pay for the rest. You just pay for big government. There is a difference.

Regards.

That is all.

Dude, that is so AMAZING stuff. To read those short blurbs about people who work their ass off and who expect no entitlement they didn't earn. I implore people to read the OP's link. Some amazing stories in there.

Really like the first and second story on this page: http://the53.tumblr.com/page/3

There's also one about someone's grandfather who lost his limbs in WW2 as well.

Love this.

There was a good article on CNN about this.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/26/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_backlas…

Although, I agree with this ideal, I think some of us here have been guilty of misconstruing the intentions of the OWS movement. I dont believe all of them 'want something for nothing' and are protesting legitimate issues.

cphbravo96]The problem is, you don't see these normal people with legit complaints, you only see the nutcases. [quote/]</p> <p>Well, thats the media, sensationalising as they do. Example, it was found in London that the protesters outside St Pauls Cathedral left their tents before midnight every night. Quite the scandal considering its costing thousands of pounds per day to not resume opening the cathedral. Yet one newspaper covered it. In contrast, although I understand the scale of the protests are, rightly, much larger in the US, newspapers are full of stories. And when the same story is published throughout, thats when you resort to the nutcases.</p> <p>[quote=cphbravo96]Additionally, it seems the overwhelming majority do want something for nothing. There are some polls out that say 33% or so of the OWS protesters (in NYC) support violence to further the cause. Granted there is no telling how accurate that poll is, but many of us have said from the beginning that this would turn into a mess. [quote/]</p> <p>Again, this stems from the comparisons drawn by everyone to the protests in the Arab world this past summer. What people fail to understand is the divergence between the two. People had legitimate gripes in places like Egypt, Tunisia, etc. Dictatorship, poverty, etc - and they resorted to violence very early on to counter the brutality they faced from the respective police forces. When they managed to achieve their goals using this method, its not hard to envisage people from the OWS inciting change adopting this method. It also doesnt help when one of the leaders of the movement in Egypt arrives in New York and talks hardline methods, not to give up, any means necessary crap, etc. Its inevitable.</p> <p>[quote=cphbravo96]These folks have no clear or concise message and they haven't brought forth a plan on how to change what they believe is wrong. Now the public is growing tired of them and are starting to wonder how all these people are able to survive without working and questioning why they are going to work everyday while these people just sit around with signs and hangout.[quote/]</p> <p>Cant argue with you on this point. Especially with the 53% thing and the revelations in London. Even if they didnt come across as bitter unemployed people losing in the game of life, the fact that so many appear young, they are branded childish and immature. The media is definitely condescending. But those stupid notes dropped on OWS Chicago just highlights all the points that they stand for; i.e. the collapsing environment, labour standards, housing policy, government corruption, World Bank lending practices, unemployment, increasing wealth disparity and so on. Different people have been affected by different aspects of the same system -- and they believe they are symptoms of the same core problem.</p> <p>[quote=cphbravo96:

Additionally, it will start getting seriously cold and that will either force them to pack up or amp up and that's when the serious violence and rioting start.

Yes and no to this. I think those committed to the cause and change will remain. The flaky, hipster student will probably look for warmer pastures. However, the way the media will portray those still out there in the winter could have one of two effects. Either:

1) People will feel sympathy for them. There will be a greater clamour to hear them out and perhaps they can finally settle for a direction and whatever demands they seek.

2) or there will be minor, isolated, violent incidents. Perhaps clamping down by the NYPD, etc. However, these 'injustices' could attract those fucks who live for the destruction of society. We had a taste here in London not too long ago. A legitimate issue could turn into full scale riots. I'm certain there are such people in the movement right now. Thats where the real trouble could emerge.

Ok for some reason it wont let me post but what I wrote:

NUTCASES - Well, thats the media, sensationalising as they do. Example, it was found in London that the protesters outside St Pauls Cathedral left their tents before midnight every night. Quite the scandal considering its costing thousands of pounds per day to not resume opening the cathedral. Yet one newspaper covered it. In contrast, although I understand the scale of the protests are, rightly, much larger in the US, newspapers are full of stories. And when the same story is published throughout, thats when you resort to the nutcases.

33% SEEK VIOLENCE Again, this stems from the comparisons drawn by everyone to the protests in the Arab world this past summer. What people fail to understand is the divergence between the two. People had legitimate gripes in places like Egypt, Tunisia, etc. Dictatorship, poverty, etc - and they resorted to violence very early on to counter the brutality they faced from the respective police forces. When they managed to achieve their goals using this method, its not hard to envisage people from the OWS inciting change adopting this method. It also doesnt help when one of the leaders of the movement in Egypt arrives in New York and talks hardline methods, not to give up, any means necessary crap, etc. Its inevitable.

NO MESSAGE - Cant argue with you on this point. Especially with the 53% thing and the revelations in London. Even if they didnt come across as bitter unemployed people losing in the game of life, the fact that so many appear young, they are branded childish and immature. The media is definitely condescending. But those stupid notes dropped on OWS Chicago just highlights all the points that they stand for; i.e. the collapsing environment, labour standards, housing policy, government corruption, World Bank lending practices, unemployment, increasing wealth disparity and so on. Different people have been affected by different aspects of the same system -- and they believe they are symptoms of the same core problem.

It will start getting seriously cold and that will either force them to pack up or amp up and that's when the serious violence and rioting start

Yes and no to this. I think those committed to the cause and change will remain. The flaky, hipster student will probably look for warmer pastures. However, the way the media will portray those still out there in the winter could have one of two effects. Either:

1) People will feel sympathy for them. There will be a greater clamour to hear them out and perhaps they can finally settle for a direction and whatever demands they seek.

2) or there will be minor, isolated, violent incidents. Perhaps clamping down by the NYPD, etc. However, these 'injustices' could attract those fucks who live for the destruction of society. We had a taste here in London not too long ago. A legitimate issue could turn into full scale riots. I'm certain there are such people in the movement right now. Thats where the real trouble could emerge.

Hope that makes sense CPH!

My God, I would LOVE IT if the far left in America wanted to adopt violence to seek change. These hippie liberal douchebags would run into a brick wall of 2.5 million NRA members armed to the teeth, America's 2 million man standing army, and the police force. I'd love to see these mother fcking pussies try a revolution and put their money where their mouths are. It would be almost orgasmic to see some of these people sht in their pants when they come face to face with their ideological enemies, who just so happen to know how to put a hole in a brain from 500 yards.

You guys realize most of these are fake, right?

There are threads on multiple forums where people with the powers of the internet revealed the identity of these people.

Also, candidly, if there is even a single person that came from a situation similar or worse than the one I came from and they are doing more to achieve their dreams than I am, then that all that matters...I need to work harder. Doesn't matter if it's 3 people or 3 million, it's proof that people from less than stellar situations can make it in this country.

Regards

I've also met tons of people who echo the same message on that site. Real people that I know. I luckily didn't have to go through the hardships of some of these people, but my parents did. Both of my parents came from middle-lower class families. Both had to take loans during university. My mom additionally had to work to subsist. Both worked 60+ hours a week since they had full time jobs. My mom worked until 6 days before I was born and started working 15 days after. Both had a total of 8 credit cards to survive when my sister was born. Both kept working hard, living within their means and paying off their loans. Both worked to send us to private school. Both worked to send us to get first class education. Both are now part of the top 20% richest people in the most unequal country in the world. Both never asked the government for anything.

http://www.economist.com/node/18587127

The one positive of the OWS movement is that we have seen so many real patriots come out against it. Working in finance, it is too easy to feel like the entire country hates you. It is encouraging to see some people haven't lost faith in capitalism yet. If you have worked your way up, you can't resent the successes of others.

A lot of the people in the OWS tent cities have a warped perception of reality. I am sure they have tried hard, but probably in the wrong ways. A degree from the academy of art does not entitle you to easy living. Faced with a mountain of debt, I can see where these people might feel like a social contract was violated.

Some of them probably never had to compete for anything, and were unprepared for a tough job market. You go to public schools (A's for everyone), play sports (everyone gets a trophy), go to a lackluster state school (everyone gets in), major in something easy (Psychology is fun!), then graduate. You are now competing with everyone else, but you don't know what competition is.

Regardless of how real their feelings are, they aren't entitled to pull everyone else down to their level. They should be angry with the government that created the incentives that collapsed the economy, the subsidized college system that burdened them with debt, and the welfare state (for corporations and people) that is draining our coffers.

lol you guys don't get it and it is really unfortunate because this is supposed to be a community of objective and educated people.

The OWS movement is completely misdirected and many of their goals do not run in line with a free, libertarian society. With that said, not understanding there is a public backlash against large banks and thinking that these people do not have some valid criticisms is perhaps even more misguided.

The fact is that banks and many other large financial institutions, who employ most of the people on this board, screwed up big time and lost hundreds of billions--perhaps into the trillions when it is all said and done. Instead of letting the marketplace take care of this, those leading these banks went and begged for a bailout and they received it, to the detriment of the idea of a free market economy. On top of that, those who were at the root cause of the meltdown on the banks' end were not punished and many were allowed to keep the outsized bonuses they received as a result of this.

The same cannot be said for those who made poor personal decisions--taking out sizable student loans (another scam the banks and gov't ran with together), excessive mortgages, etc. These people lost their homes, have to go into bankruptcy, etc. At the end of the day, they made the bed that they must lie in, but to not realize the hypocrisy of rewarding one group of people and the companies they work for and allowing the others to rot is as bad as these OWS individuals who believe there ought to be large-scale socialistic entitlement programs.

Simply because many of us here have or know somebody who has overcome large obstacles does not mean that there isn't valid criticism of the financial sector and many of its participants. That isn't to say we need to install the entitlement programs of forgive the debts of individuals, but it is to say that many of the participants in the financial sector did not have to face the consequences for their poor decision making and are allowed to continue do what they do and profit off of taxpayers for the sole reason of government bailouts.

Jerome, as a soon-to-be Mid-Atlantic regional mortgage bank manager and partial owner I agree 110% with the idea that there are MAJOR issues with and legitimate criticisms of banking institutions. But if these protesters were remotely intellectually honest they'd be on K Street or M Street in Washington, D.C. protesting the crony politicians who have set up the system the way it is. All the banks did was ask--it's the politicians who said yes and then re-wrote the rules under Dodd-Frank that simply doubles down on the moral hazard.

They did a bit more than ask. Our system allows for such top down corruption to take place. I agree that change needs to start in Washington, but morally these corporatists are as bad as any of the politicians, many of whom are where they are because of the money coming from these people. The system is quite broken.

Yes, the system is totally broken, but it's broken because, as Peter Schiff so aptly points out, of government. As Schiff notes, think about this--in true capitalism there would be no need to buy off politicians because the government doesn't have the power to help the capitalists. But in a system where government has set itself up as the primary power broker legalized bribery and the revolving door are actually quite effective tools in acquiring wealth and power. Therefore, if the protesters were smart they'd be occupying Congress, not Wall St. If you're a crony capitalist in our system then you are just being smart--it would be foolish to compete in our bureaucratized business environment without playing the game of government influence. That's not being immoral--that's recognizing a fiduciary responsibility to your investors.

Protesters don't care about fixing the system. They simply want free cash and more government spending. The only true fix to things is a reduction in the size of the federal government. This is why the Tea Party > OWS.

Whenever your goal is more government, more taxation and more regulation your burden of proof is through the roof.

Excellent point VT.

Regards

Thanks CPH. Posting Friedman is always great.

As you may have noticed if you actually watched the video with Peter, more people than not would agree with the idea that capitalism is good. What we have right now though is not capitalism by any means.

I think I should head on down and protest welfare to all people and corporations.

TX, you won't be allowed to voice your freedom of speech. The public space is not occupies and lived in. Only they are allowed to be heard.

Typical left wing behavior. Their opinions are right and valid and anyone who opposes them must have their voice oppressed.

Jerome,

What the hell are you talking about? Links?

Just posted them in another thread.

http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blog/show?id=3355873%3ABlogPost%…

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2010/03/fbi_investiga…

Plenty more available online.

1) That is not an official site for the Tea Party.

http://www.teapartypatriots.org/Mission.aspx

501(c) and official site. That is their official mission.

If you go to the OWS official site and main mouth piece and look at their stated demands you can instantly tell the difference in the groups.

2) As for your article, if it is true, who ever did it should be caught and brought to trial. Vigilante justice is not allowed or tolerated.

Honestly, I don't see what you are trying to do. There are criminal elements everywhere. Nazi's with guns showed up to the Arizona event. Some cling to the Tea Party. Who cares. The Tea Party has always been a fiscal revolt against a growing and over taxing government.

So let me get this straight. Please correct me if my logic is wrong.

Throwing bottles, paint and other objects at police, when they told you numerous times to leave, is perfectly ok? The cops, in an effort to not physically engage with people, fire tear gas in an attempt to get people to leave and yet people stay and throw objects at the police.

When the police give you repeated orders to leave, you leave. If you think it is un - Constitutional, you take the police and city to court. The city simply stated that you could not sleep over night. Protesters were free to return during the day.

One person, on a reportedly Tea Party site is not the official group. Also, the police should find this person and arrest them.

You really need to learn to look at things objectively.

Please quote your source where it states ONLY water bottles were thrown. Every article I read on the subject shows paint, bottles and other objects.

Also, how is it OK to throw anything at the police. I suppose if I threw a water bottle in your face while you were walking to work you would chuckle and think that was perfectly fine.

Try throwing something at a cop next time and tell me what happens.

lol so the only actual unbiased evidence that exists--the video evidence we have seen--does not tell the whole story? Well what story does it tell then, dear sir? From the looks of it, it shows a bunch of mouth breathers beating innocent people and intending to cause great bodily damage, all in the name of quieting a relatively meaningless existence that should have been ignored rather than inflamed.

Video's don't show everything from start to finish, they don't show the entire scene. They don't capture everything.

You are too biased and are not making a compelling argument. Try again.

As I said before on this forum, everyone's the 53%, 1%, whatever% until you're actually stuck somewhere and can't get yourself out, or better yet weren't given an opportunity to start with. Most people on this forum and industry were born with at least a spoon in their mouth (and many a silver one), but i came from a country where most were born with nothing, truly, nothing.

the fact of the matter is that while some people completely change their status in life, most don't have the opportunity to do so. and besides, if it wasn't for my mom's courage before i was even born, i'd be back where she was almost certainly without an education or where i am today. so before you 53% of responsible people get on your high horse admit you're one of the 100% of people who was born into a circumstance (bad or good), and that that probably has more to do with where you are today than anything else.

Occupy WS is coming to my college :D:D:D:D:D:D

I dont understand why the cops need to be within the actual protest. I completely understand overseeing to prevent violence, criminal damage, etc but that video, I dont see the reason for those cops to riding their motorcycles in amongst the crowds. Its just asking for trouble. Each party will antagonise the other.

Yeah, me either. If police tell me to do something, I do it. If I feel it is wrong I lawyer up. Didn't realize Americans had a right to assault cops for doing something they think is wrong.

Isn't that vigilante justice? Oh, but it is a liberal cause so that makes it ok.

And once and for all, these clowns do not represent the majority of Americans. They are a small, vocal minority that THINKS they stand for all Americans. In reality, they want far left wing ideals and are completely out of step with the majority of this country.

I always thought public spaces were supposed to be shared and domain for all citizens. I didn't know a small group had the right to build permanent encampments and essentially live there.

I wonder what would happen if the Tea Party files appropriate forms to protest on public space. Would OWS vacate to allow for differing points of view to use space meant for all citizens?

^^^Ant, the Tea Party did file such forms and had to get permits for the rallies. I heard, somewhere, that the Tea Party is trying to get their money back since the OWS did not go through the proper channels like they did.

Maybe the cop should not of been there. Maybe he was going somewhere with cause. Not sure. All I do know is that attacking someone with a different viewpoint who is on public property is not right.

We all have the right to use the public space. These protesters do not own it nor have any special claim on it. Police can and should be free to be there, as well as anti OWS protesters.

More violence will come. As these mobs of people realize that they are not speaking for anyone other than their tiny minority and cities get tired of ignoring their violations and abuse of the system, the police will have to crack down on the law breakers. Then they will resort to violence, what they have been dying to do the whole time.

You guys should all just shut up. On both sides you are simply supporting the people whose politics you agree with and not objectively looking at this. If these were Tea Party protests, everyone would be on the exact opposite side they fall on now.

/thread