WSO Podcast | E233: Rapid Fire Resume Reviews - Does Formatting Matter? | Weekly Intern Meetup #22
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WSO Podcast Episode 233 Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief Monkey. And this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me as I talk to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. Another interesting chat with the interns. If you're interested in applying to the internship, please check out the show notes. There's a link right there. Enjoy. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the February 3rd. Session of the intern meetup. Thanks. Thank you all for joining. I'm going to do some more resume reviews today, hopefully, 1 or 2. So if you do want your resume reviewed, go ahead and shoot over in the chat and we'll kind of try to get it ready for us. Um, but we can start with this one we got last week, I don't think. This person is on right now, so I won't be able to ask questions, but I'll just talk. Maybe it'll be helpful if I share my screen and we can talk through it. So you can kind of get an idea of what was done well and what wasn't done as well. So overall, this.... this resume is actually formatted, I think, really well. There's good spacing between the main sections, between roles. Just so quick glance, it's easy to read, which is really nice. I think they use the Wall Street Oasis format, so obviously we're biased, but I think it looks great.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:37] Um, in terms of the bullets, you'll notice the couple things. So let's go down to education. So they've got GPA, academic honor roll, tennis team scholarship. This is great. Uh, everything looks good. Might want to have here some since they were finance, some relevant coursework listed here to help with more keywords. And then here there's no GPA on the master science. I don't know if that's intentional or if, you know, in the UK or in England. If that's not done there, sometimes there's great non-disclosure, but I would probably lean on the side of including it unless it's bad. So maybe that's a little bit of a question mark on this resume. But other than that, it looks like, you know, really impressive, number one ranked junior tennis player in Ukraine. So obviously, I would like to see not just the number one ranked, but how many hours per week that requires in terms of training and stuff like that, just to kind of reemphasize hard work and balance that's needed. Um. Other things on this. The associate roles performed audit. I would like to see you consulted with clients on accounting issues. I'd like to have more quantification here. How many clients an accounting issues related to your financial statements while ensuring the timely completion of various audit engagements?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:57] So again, just more quantification on this bullet like this one survives supervise to train them on company-specific procedures. That's great quantification up here. Analyze the performance of Meta Invest Group and Meta Invest Groups Ukrainian international companies on monthly quarterly semi-annual basis for further use by management and investor relations function. What's the result of this? I think we sometimes get lost in saying what, but not saying the results and quantifying the results. So this is great. They said, you know, Warsaw and coordinated reporting functions which reporting functions, you know, five reporting functions. What does that mean? So maybe a little bit of detail on that, more a little more quantification. Again, we want to put as many numbers, as many hard facts as we can. I think this format, excellent quantification is a, B plus here. I give format an A, bullets, B, B plus. There is some good quantification, but it could be done taken a little bit even higher. And then other than that, really excellent overall. So let's pull up another one. And while I'm pulling that up, any other questions on this specifically or resumes in general as you're kind of working through stuff? Okay. Does anybody want me to have a sheet as I'm pulling up here? But, let me zoom out a little bit. Okay. Here we go.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:30] This is caused a different this is a different one.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:33] Okay, so, Ashish, you're on here so you can maybe answer some questions. So real quick. I think overall the formatting is actually pretty nice. Pretty some pretty cool graphical visual elements to it, which I like. I'll say it's a little crowded. I think you need to take advantage of some white space, some more white space. So in this formatting, I typically don't like dark borders because I think if you look at like a design experts, this is kind of like a way to help the eye delineate intersections. But in true like design and making things beautiful, you don't want to necessarily have to use this or they should definitely be much lighter lines because it takes away from the actual content. So what I'd love to see from you is take out this about me section to let and leverage the additional space to give the entire resume some air and some space. So I think okay, so yeah, I think I think a lot of this is, is you can see my screen, right?
Intern 1: Yeah. Yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): I actually like this... this header really nice. It doesn't take up a lot of space. Um, I don't know what a management software means. What does that mean?
Intern 1: [00:05:46] So it's like a business administration or management. So I'm a second-year student in like bachelors in business administration, so it's management software a smaller word for that?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:58] Yeah, it's just a little strange. It sounds like a management store. I've never heard of that or seen that. So are you trying to say like you're… you're studying management?
Intern 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): So I think it should be a sophomore candidate. You don't have to say, sophomore candidate. You already put the class year here. That's irrelevant. Um, the GPA is better to have right there. Content writer at society. Maybe. Say what that is. Star Singer of the Year. What does that mean? Did you win a competition? Function volunteer?
Intern 1: [00:06:30] Competition.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:32] Yeah. So better to have it actually quantified in terms of like the competition rather than just, say, star singer because nobody knows what that means at your high school. Yeah, but I think you can save yourself a lot of space. It's about me. It's pretty much recommended for roles outside of finance, so you can have a version with this in if you're really strongly feel, feel strongly about it. And what do you think about in terms of UAE and markets over in Asia, in terms of the About Me section and the statement I know in the US it's a big like for high finance roles. I say absolutely not. Get get rid of it. What do you think? Yeah, high.
Nabil: [00:07:08] Finance, probably not. But like if I guess if you're into like applying to like smaller places, it might make sense and not into like proper investment banking or that kind of stuff. Like no resume usually has it. Yeah, it depends I guess on the field and then like that kind of stuff where they actually have time to go through it. Most people don't. Yeah. And go through the and gets filtered out. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:27] And so Yeah go ahead sorry.
Nabil: [00:07:29] Oh no. And then yeah the skills and the core skills could probably be below experience, right? Experience would may have a lot more value than those things.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:37] Yeah. I'd bring this up for sure skills and core skills could go down here with these projects and licenses. This font is really small. I actually kind of like.The logos it helps my eye, but it's… it's just busy, and so what you want to think is when somebody pulls up this resume.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:53] They have six seconds. Right? You have six seconds. Throw it and move on so. That what you don't include is as important as what you do include, meaning the white space that you have for the AI to scan quickly is just as important as what you do.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:09] So trying to fit everything in. Actively hurts you versus knowing what to pick and choose and what… what's most impressive and what to quantify. And including only those. Remember this, the resume should not be seen as a tool to show everything you've done.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:27] The resume is simply a tool to get you the interview so you want to look as impressive as you can and make it as easily scannable with the most impressive stuff easily readable. That's what it is. It's not about including four pages, five pages. I like the fact that you have it on one page, but it still feels like you crunched it. So, I think… I think there's a couple things here, so, I don't mind this format. I don't even mind these. But like maybe you go to two.
Nabil: [00:08:53] Another thing is I think importantly, like which role you're applying for because like just looking at it from. Yeah, because people do this where they have like different experiences, different, especially on the certificate section, the sales in there. There's content writing, there's data, and like those skills are not required for the same role. Those are like probably 2 or 3 different roles. You could have resumes for different roles and then those resumes could highlight like key. So if you're into data analysis or something, you could have you could highlight the data analysis stuff. If you're in a consulting, there's the winter consulting and all those kind of things. So it could be more geared towards like if you're if you're sending this to like, say, investment banking or even... even management consulting and you have that huge paragraph on sales analysts and then there's nothing on, say, management consulting, it just looks bad.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:38] Yeah. Would even like if you're applying to management consulting roles or banking roles like you could just remove the sales analyst intern or make it like three bullets max. Your bullets, look, I just scanned a few of your bullets.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:49] There. They…they definitely have room for improvement. That's the weakest part of your resume is the actual bullets. Analyze sales data from seven different retailers you Shopify Analytics and what…what did you find? What was the result? Collected an organized customer data. What type of data? Over 2500 companies. What was the result of that?
Intern 1: [00:10:10] So we refined the targeted like refine the data and then refine saw the target market…
Patrick (CEO of WSO): Sales data?
Intern 1: Like. Yeah, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:19] So were are you looking by skew by-product by this, were you sorting it. What were you analyzing collected it organized like I think the analysis and the result needs to be here. I like that you're quantifying the number of companies and the number of retailers, but you're not really. Saying what the outcome was if you can… if you can kind of just quantify what the outcome was, worked with the startup data that provides I kind of like this. This is like what they do.This is not what you did. So if you want there's there is a format where you can actually have like an italicized like marketplace for like startup with marketplace for electronics. So you can have like an italicized thing of what this company is rather than having it as a bullet. The bullets should really be reserved for what you did, the quantifying and then what the results of your actions were. So like this is a super weak bullet conducted research on competitors. What type of research, what how many competitors? You know what I mean? Like, there's so many. That's just that just opens up. It just… it's just a soft bullet and it's just taking up space. So you either make it much better or remove it.
Intern 1: Okay. Okay.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:27] And like that comes through all of this learned about and cloud technologies, bullets where you're just like educating yourself. Okay, But like, I'd want more specifics here and then completed a first month of training phase, completed a first month, the first month, or completed one month. It's a little bit awkward, completed a first-month training phase. To me, this makes it look like English isn't your first language.
Intern 1: [00:11:50] Oh no. So it's a secondary language? My first language is Hindi.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:54] Exactly, so… but like, you should have somebody review this who's English is fluent native language if you're applying to two roles that are where that's required. Right?
Intern 1: Okay. Okay.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): Because there's certain little, little nuances about the wording you choose.That make it sound like. Okay, is it how good is this English going to be? And that can just get your resume thrown out right there. Especially… especially with where you're coming from. You're in you're in India, right?
Intern 1: [00:12:23] Exactly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:24] Yes. Especially coming from India with your name, people are going to be like, hey, can this guy speak well? Right. So main takeaways space. You need a lot more of it. If you're applying to finance and account management consulting roles, I'd remove this about me section and either remove or significantly reduce the sales analyst intern role you need to beep up. Your bullets with… with much more specifics. What are the outcomes of what you did and quantification? And number three, this needs to be like the dark lines in between everywhere I think need to be significantly lightened or removed and allow the visual, the white space to do the dividing for you. Okay. And then the other thing I'll say is, what… what just re-emphasize what Nabil said, that maybe you have two different versions of the resume where maybe there's, you know, financial analyst, data analyst roles that you're applying to, where you want to really emphasize your data analytics license is, and because there just seem to be a lot of data analyst stuff here because you said, you know, core skills, data analysis, trend research, economics management.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:34] Financial evaluation, so like that's…that's the other thing I would just ask you. Try to… try to maybe have 2 or 3 versions. Once you get to three versions, it gets a little bit tough to keep it managed because then you make one change and one you to do it to all three. So I like to say 2 or 3, especially if you're like, hey, these are the two places I'm applying. I know you're still young and you're still in school, so you're probably still exploring a little bit but if you can kind of hone in…hone in on maybe two types of roles that you really want to go after, I think that'd be better, especially if you're like staying power, you know, if you have power. BI is one of your lower ones here I mean, uh, research and analysis is one of your top ones. Like your best skills should probably be listed first, and I don't think googling should be a skill.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:19] That's awesome. okay, um, maybe put Chatgpt on there. Once you're done with this…once you're done with this internship, hopefully, you're good with chatgpt. So welcome to the new people who joined in the middle of that resume review Alicia and think maybe it was it, um, wanted to see anybody else have a question or want to go through. So we just did two quick resume reviews. If you have, you know, if you want to do a edit on that based on the feedback we just gave you, feel free so we can do it again. We can review an updated version next week if you want, um, happy to do that but overall. The two resumes that went through today are pretty solid. Um, I've seen a lot worse… seen a lot worse from this… from the intern group before and you know, two page three page resumes formatting all over the place. So Donny has a question? Yeah, Danny.
Intern 2: [00:15:16] Yes. Hello. How are you?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): Good, How are you?
Intern 2: [00:15:19] Good, good. I'm actually currently outside, so I don't have access to my CV. But I do have a quick question. Someone I know who's been applying to financial analyst positions, which is similar to what I plan to do. He recommended to me. He told me I don't recommend having AA2 column CV as a format. Is this really a big deal, in your opinion? Is this a true thing that because based on the CVS that you've shown right now in this Zoom call, it looks very different than mine format-wise? Is this something that you think should change? Because my CV is a two-column CV.
Nabil: [00:16:01] The first farmer, I think is a better one, right? Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:04] This I'm going to show you again. Let me open up the first one because I think that's the better more. And so question is, does it matter or not? Right.
Nabil: It does.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): Yes, it does matter
Intern 2: Okay.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): Impressions matter on a piece of paper. It's the most important piece of paper that you're sending out to help you land interviews. This thing needs to be polished and polished again and polished again and reviewed again. Given to everybody. You know, say, find an error and I'll pay you five bucks or that's what that's the level of detail has to be if you can't get your resume right… if you can't get your resume right. How detail-oriented you are? Right, it is…it's the most important document. So like, it's not that a two-column or a one-column is the right way to do it, it's just that certain industries are used to seeing things delivered in a certain way, so going outside of that, usually, all that's doing is just taking on additional risk that you don't need, um, especially if you're…if you're going about it in a way and I'll, I'll share this resume here, just the format of it and I'll zoom out so you can kind of get a better sense of what I mean here, um, you know, if you're doing job searching properly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:21] You're… you're not just dropping your resume into a bin on an online portal. You're actually talking to people, right? And you're building relationships at people that work at that company and so let's say you have a good call for networking call and the person works at an investment bank or they're a financial analyst at a larger company or whatnot, and maybe their… their managers are a little bit older, maybe a little more conservative. Suddenly, you send a CV that has all these graphics and it's like a bright yellow color and like your photos there I know some countries. They do use photos, but like your photos, they're like, you know, whatever. It's just not as professional as what they're used to seeing you're running a huge risk that the person is not going to pass it on and say they passed it on because they're just embarrassed to do it and they don't want to recommend you. So like, you should just be like building the relationships delivering a, that is properly formatted.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:13] Highlights your best points that are most relevant to that job and quantifying as much as possible to show that you've had an impact where you've worked and that's why the bullets specifically around this research internship. So focus on the financial topics you're writing, the quantification number of words you've written the number of hours you've self-studied in financial modeling training, because that's what matters. It's like you're showing you have suddenly like you're interested in the topics, you're highlighting, all these topics, you're getting those keywords on the thing, you're showing your hard work and you wrote a ton of words. You're showing that you spent an additional 600 hours, 100, 200 hours of self-study on financial modeling training, and suddenly…suddenly you're a legit candidate when you could have had no finance internship experience at all like those 3 or 4 bullets are really powerful. So I'd focus more on like. The… yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:05] Getting into format that's like clean and not going to like risk… risk getting your resume thrown out for no reason and then number two, just delivering on the value of like really, really focusing on just the bullets, making sure they're super strong to be as quantified as possible, showing the result of your work, not just the… not just the like I collected customer data. Yeah, go ahead. Arnav. We're getting a few more people. It's become… it's becoming a crew, Nabil.
Intern 3: [00:19:38] So, yeah. So he wanted to ask, how much does Marx matter when we go for a job?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:44] And…. marks will matter a lot if you're all you're doing is dropping your resume into a black hole. You're… if you have top marks, you'll probably get like a 5% response rate. So for every 20 resume drops, you probably get like one out of 20. You'll get a call or a phone interview out of it. If you have poor marks, you'll probably get, um, it'll be more like one out of every 100 applications you submit will get a response so it can increase your high marks, will increase your… your resume drop to interview conversion. But it's still low, right? It's like from 1% to 5%. So it's still not a great way to like land interviews. Um, but yeah, it does make things it does make things easier so how much does it matter? It matters.
Nabil: [00:20:27] Yeah. Especially if you're like, right out of college, because that's the best indicator of the work you do. Yeah.
Intern 3: [00:20:32] Yeah, actually, my college is kind of old fashioned and they not do not like, they not. They do not a lot, max, max, max to max…80% at limit. So we're just confirming.
Nabil: [00:20:46] But do you have like a relative… ah, relative marking.
Intern 3: [00:20:47] Yeah, but just times for like divided by four or whatever the marks are like we are given out of ten and system is given out of four, but they stay the same if we limit it at eight. So in it… it comes out to be 3.2.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:04] Yeah. So you're worried about… reverting it to a 3.2? I would put it in your marks, put it as an eight whatever, and try to put it as a percentile rank in your class is a better way to show that.
Intern 3: [00:21:16] Alright. Actually, I wish to explain my situation that actually I joined this internship as a newbie and I was struggling to basically make up with the articles with the standards. And right now I met with an accident and I've broken my hand, so hopefully, I won't be kicked out, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:33] Sorry. What's that in terms of what you've been struggling to start? Is that what you're saying?
Intern 3: [00:21:37] Yeah, I was struggling to start, and then I met with an accident and broke my hand.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:43] Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, I mean, look, we can… we can extend it for sure. You know, I think you just got to email Josh, She's managing the program, so let him know about your circumstance. And I think you know, I think what we can do is delay it, delay the start date, and set it back further and that's fine and give you another shot and hopefully, there's not another, unfortunate.
Intern 3: [00:22:03] Yeah, sure. I've been doing work. It's just not at a very good pace and I've been trying to inform Josh after I've informed Josh actually.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:09] Yeah I would you inform him and then potentially maybe just put a pause on it until you're healed and then come back at a time when you're ready to dedicate the hours needed to do it successfully. Because I think if you're kind of half in, half out, it's going to be tough to actually get through it in time because we do have a two-week grace period where we allow you to kind of go up to, I think, 14 weeks in a but we don't. Yeah, successful completion does require you to kind of finish it in that, in that time frame. Yeah. Danny. Go ahead.
Intern 4: [00:22:41] Hi. Yes, I have another question. Um, I'm kind of new. Like, I'm still researching about opportunities, what I want to do, but I'm pretty interested in financial analyst. And I have a question like based on the courses you offer for someone that doesn't have any experience in being a financial analyst, what courses would you recommend from the ones that you offer? That would be great for me that I could also learn from and as well as add to my resume.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:12] Yeah, I would start with Excel modeling for sure accounting foundations to understand how to read the financial statements and then understand how to make sure you're building the right habits with Excel, a lot of people think they know Excel because they can do some formulas in Excel and they know how to do functions but not many of them know how to use all the quick keys, and most people are still reach for their mouse when they're… when they're working in Excel so not that the financial analysts are as rigorous demands of investment banking, but if you have that skill set and you're bringing it to a financial analyst role, you're going to be an all-star so I would say Excel modeling and accounting foundations and potentially after that financial statement, modeling and then depending on what financial analyst role you do, maybe some valuation work if that if that interests you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:59] So there's valuation modeling in DCF, but I would first focus on the more fundamental stuff, which is Excel and accounting foundations and then PowerPoint. I wouldn't sleep on the PowerPoint course either because being able to know how to use that tool, you know, as a financial analyst, you're not just going to be doing the financial analysis, you probably have to present it or get it ready for… for presenting and if you can, you know, you understand how to move around PowerPoint efficiently, you're going to be able to put nicer decks together and if you know how to storyboard things and structure your… your… your presentations, I think it's helpful that's where consultants tend to shine, right, Nabil?
Nabil: [00:24:36] You know.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:39] That's where consultants tend to shine. Yeah. Nabil…Nabil has…has some good skills in PowerPoint.
Nabil: [00:24:45] Yeah, that's less modeling, more PowerPoint, Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:48] So that's… that's where I would say to start Danny for sure.
Intern 5: [00:24:52] Also, it wouldn't hurt to...to do the Excel crash course one as well, just to make sure I know all the basics.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:58] Yeah, there's free Excel crash courses, but you get access as you go through the... the internship, you get free access to courses as you go. So, um, it depends. There's also the interview courses, the investment banking interview course, private equity interview course, hedge fund interview, course management consulting case interview course. If you're interested in finance role like financial analyst role, the interview course is probably the most relevant because it has the most kind of foundational types of questions that you'll receive at these firms, not just investment banks. So we call it investment banking interview course, but really it's just any sort of financial analyst role could ask you these types of questions and there's a ton. There'll be thousands of behavioral questions in there with sample answers and thousands of technical questions we have pulling from the database. So that's also another great course to kind of prep you for the recruiting portion of it to make sure you're… you're up to speed on that.
Nabil: [00:25:50] Yeah, it depends on the what kind of role, right? Because you wouldn't as well.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:54] Yeah. You wouldn't put that on your resume like the interview course. Don't put that on your resume, put the… put the Excel Modeling, put the FSM accounting foundations type stuff on there.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:03] Um, and then the interview course you just do and it'll help you prep and there's also the networking courses added as part of that package that any of the interview courses come with the networking course and it helps you with like cold call or cold email templates, all that stuff so you know exactly how to reach out, who you should be targeting, the types of questions you should be asking in interviews when they say, Oh, do you have any questions for me? That's a very important part of the interview and a lot of people are like, No, I'm good, bye! Don't do that. Um, and so yeah, there's…there's a lot of good guidance in those… in those courses. If you can…if you can carve out the time. I know you're… you're in school. Are you in at American University?
Intern 5: [00:26:44] Yes. Yes. An American University in Lebanon actually. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:49] Yeah. Oh yeah. We have yeah, we hired… we hired somebody full time out of, uh. I think he's still a student, right, Nabil, Ali?
Nabil: [00:26:58] Yeah. Think so? Yeah. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:00] So one of your classmates works with us kind of on a paid basis. More kind of part-time. Half like half part-time, full-time, almost full-time. Um, but yeah, so if there's any questions, as you're kind of prepping and going around that, I would just feel free to reach out. And we're happy to chat with you every Friday. We'll be on here almost every Friday.
Intern 5: [00:27:21] All right. Thank you. And if you don't mind, I got the Excel Modeling. What was the financial one called if you don't?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:27] Financial Statement…Financial Statement Modeling Course.
Intern 5: [00:27:30] Okay, great. Thank you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:31] Yeah, and that one is it's teaching you how to link up the three statements. So income statement, balance sheet, cash flow, it's really about the, you know, working capital.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:40] Basically having projections and building out a working three-statement model that will actually balance and not ref out on you. I can't tell you how many nights you're there at like two in the morning working on a model and it's roughing out and you're trying to figure out why or there's circularity errors and, you know, knowing all the little tricks of like, oh, we got to turn off our iterations or, you know, stop the circularity, that stuff matters because, you know, it could be the difference from two hours of sleep and five hours of sleep.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:09] So. Um, I think we'll call it. I think it was a fun, power-packed session of resume reviews, and yeah, unless there's… unless there's any other questions. If not, we're going to call it. Yeah. Going once. Going twice. All right, Vegas. All right, everybody.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:27] Thanks for joining. We'll be back next week and yeah, if you want your resume reviewed, just let me know. Talk soon, and thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis, If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way, at [email protected]. And till next time.
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