Monkey to Millions | Grace (Session 2) - In Person vs Online Networking
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In this episode, Grace details some solid networking leads she's established by being active on campus while I encourage her to do more outreach outside her school ecosystem to build a solid foundation for internship recruiting next year. We discuss goals and tools on how she can build up more contacts efficiently while still balancing schoolwork.
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WSO Podcast (Episode 2) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:04] Well. Hello and welcome, I'm Patrick Curtis, chief monkey of Wall Street Oasis, and this is monkey to millions. A show where you get a front row seat as I mentor young students and professionals to try and help them break into their dream jobs in the first cohort. You'll meet four students, all preparing for intense job interviews while trying to also balance personal life and schoolwork. The goal of this show is to shine a light on the struggles of trying to break into competitive positions with a non-traditional background and to give you a roadmap for your own success. My hope is that as you get to know these four impressive students, you're inspired to dream big. Remember, these are real people, and this is their true story. Let's get to it in Grace's second session. We go over some solid networking leads. She's established by being active on campus. While I encourage her to do more outreach outside her school ecosystem to build a solid foundation for internship recruiting next year. We discuss goals and tools on how she can build up more contacts efficiently while still balancing schoolwork. But first hear from grace over the previous few weeks leading up to this session.
Grace: [00:01:35] Hello. So this past week, I sent out a first batch of emails. I already had one phone call with someone, and I have a few others set up in the next few weeks, as well as one in-person meeting with someone from Chicago who will be coming to actually speak at Fordham in a few weeks to the graduate school. So I'll be able to meet him in person while he's here in the city for that. I also applied and was given a spot at the conference that the Women's Association of Venture and Equity is having in the city in early November. So when that comes, that'll be a great networking opportunity. I'll get to meet a lot of women in the field through that. I went to a panel that the investment banking club here had that venture capital. So I got to meet a few guys who work in the venture and growth equity space here in the city, some of which are alumni. Fordham and per recommendation, I updated my LinkedIn, adding more finance related interests, the interests section. And then for this week, I already have a batch big batch of emails that I'll send out. I'll send out tomorrow morning and hopefully, we'll get some good responses from those. Hello. So I have a very busy week this week between meetings with professors and other students, as well as some in-person meetings and phone calls with people that I've been reaching out to over email the past few weeks, as well as just some other events, school events going on. So it seems like every minute of my next few days is completely scheduled, but it should be good. And then last week, I started working with the president of the investment banking club here, and he has a spreadsheet of about five to six hundred and four a.m. alumni who work at the major banks. So I'm helping him update it with where people have moved from firms the past few years. And so that will definitely be a great resource when I'm looking for people to reach out to having all of that in one place. So overall should be a very productive week. Hello, so this past week, I had several phone calls and meetings with people that reached out to several of which were actually very helpful. One person in particular who offered to get me into a small group private dinner that is happening after one of his colleagues gives a talk at Fordham in a few weeks. So that would be a very good opportunity. As well as he also offered to refer me to an opportunity at his firm, a summer opportunity that he only opens to Fordham students, and he explained how the role would include actual evaluation work. It sounds like great opportunities, so I'm following up with him on possibly applying for that. And then tomorrow I am going to the Chartered Alternative Investment Analyst Association Blockchain Conference. So the Alternative Investments Club here is sending a few students to help out setting up beforehand. And then there will be several speakers and then a networking part at the end with many people from private equity and venture capital there. So that'll be a great opportunity to meet some people. And then I'm also working on getting into a Gabelli networking social event happening later this week that sounds like it's only for the graduate MBA students. But in a response to an email, I'd sent out to a Fordham alum. He had asked if we could meet there. So I'm working with the administration here to possibly be able to get into that event. So hopefully that works out and I could be able to meet a lot of people there, too.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:37] So you had the updates and basically last sounds like you're getting a lot of great traction meeting a lot of new people.
Grace: [00:05:45] Yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:46] So that's awesome. How are classes going?
Grace: [00:05:49] I'm pretty good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:50] Yeah, yeah.
Grace: [00:05:52] I make my way through.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:53] You're like hanging in there in terms of like grades and stuff.
Grace: [00:05:56] Oh yeah, my grades are fine right now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:59] You think close to a three eight four? Oh, kind of situation also because it's I know you did really well in high school and the transition can be tough sometimes and just want to make sure, at least for me, when I jump to college, I got like a three-point zero my first semester and it was like I had to climb out of that and it was just one class that really kind of can throw you off. So it was like a pre-med bio class. And then like, totally, I worked harder in that class and all the other classes combined, and they still got to see so. That can happen with the weed out pre-med classes, but so just be careful with the. Yeah, just the GPA, just keep that up because I think you're doing a lot of things right, and based on like your updates, you're getting into like conferences, you're talking to a lot of people. Tell me a little bit more about that dinner that you're being invited to for like Fordham students.
Grace: [00:06:51] Oh, the one that I mentioned in the most recent video.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:53] Yeah, yeah.
Grace: [00:06:54] Ok.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:56] Did you? Is that already happened or no?
Grace: [00:06:58] So it's in another week or two. And I've actually been having trouble following up with the guy about it because I think he's pretty bad about email.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:07] So is he? Yeah, yeah. So tend to be bad with technology.
Grace: [00:07:13] And he's like, he was very, very genuine when he was talking to me, so I know he really wanted to help.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:20] So why did you extend that to you? Just especially because you kind of made it you made an effort to talk with them?
Grace: [00:07:26] Yes, I think he was impressed that I was already reaching out to him. So and then just like through our conversation, so
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:33] Do you feel like you're getting more comfortable with that stuff? I think so. It's hard. As a freshman, I remember I was like, it's just a maturity thing and a comfort thing, like, you're obviously very mature for a freshman, but you're still really young. So it's hard to like, feel comfortable talking to somebody who's super old or like my age. Even so. So it's good you're making that effort and you're just going to get better and better or better. I'm going to make you actually better at interviews, too, so. We're kind of coming into the holidays. Tell me a little bit about like in terms of the plant, like are you networking a lot in terms of like on LinkedIn still? Have you had any time for that like?
Grace: [00:08:16] So I haven't. I've been doing more email most of what I send over LinkedIn like I'm on the free month for premium right now. Yeah. And most of the messages I send out, I don't get responses from, probably just because they're not seen. You know, it's harder for them to see them or if they get an email notification. It's just something they automatically delete. Kind of.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:36] Are you? Are you reaching out to them?
Grace: [00:08:39] It's mostly been album and I've probably been getting that like 50 percent response.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:46] That's really good, actually. So 50 percent response. So is your a number of connections. Are they growing? I see one for you. I see one forty-one. Where were we before? How about 80? So that's great. You've almost doubled the number of connections that you had since we started. So like, do not stop that, please. I know, I know you feel like 50 percent. That's actually really, really good response rate. Are you just saying, Hey, I think you send it to me, right? Hey, I'm an introvert. I think that's just keep doing that if people connect with you. How are you tracking that? I know you say you're sending, you're doing some. Is it all like connections and then messages?
Grace: [00:09:27] What do you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:27] Mean? Like, so are you doing connection requests with that little message in it? Or are you doing like using LinkedIn Premium to send emails?
Grace: [00:09:35] I've mostly been doing emails just because when you send the note with the connection request, it's really small. I think it's like three hundred characters, so it's difficult to fit a message into that small.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:46] But how many emails don't you only have, like 10 emails per month?
Grace: [00:09:49] Yeah. So I was I think it's because I was on a different premium and then I upgraded to do the other premium. So I got a total of like 20 in mail. I think credits. So I'm just you got
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:02] You got 10 additional connections from that APR.
Grace: [00:10:06] I don't know if I'd say that I maybe got like two or three responses over LinkedIn, but most of what I've been getting is through email.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:15] And how are you getting these emails just through the alumni network, something in the school gives them to you.
Grace: [00:10:20] Or like if I have someone's name and then just using the email format
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:23] For the OK, so I think it would really serve you well to even to start doing the connection requests at a higher scale with a shorter version of that thing because I want you to hit five hundred connections very fast. Mm hmm. And it's silly, but building that network in that connection now will allow you to send messages directly without needing emails. Mm hmm. Right. Later. So like as and then the beauty of it is if their connections with you, they're like, Oh, I guess I connected with her before at some point, for some reason. And it's much easier. You can get their email off of LinkedIn right after that. So like, even if they're not checking their you can always there's ways to grab all the emails from the profiles that you're connected to. There's stuff called like linked helper, which kind of automates that where you can buy some software that helps you kind of get all those into one spreadsheet, which can be super, super helpful for like when you want to send an update of like, Hey, I landed the summer and let's say you get this internship at that and that place that you may be doing valuation work at. It would be amazing if you could email a short two line update to everybody in your network. Mm hmm. Ok, just so that you just give me an update. You know, it's been a little while since we spoke that it or broke it up in terms of like alum versus this versus that, and you could balk at it. But doing but. But getting from one forty one up to five hundred before you're done with freshman year, I think should be a goal of yours because it's not. It's not hard to send a connection request. And if they're alums, it's a very easy ask. And then even if they're not alums, if you can find any other, any other connection, maybe they're from Maryland, or maybe they, you know, whatever they may be from your high school, maybe from your high school, you could check those people. Mm hmm. Maybe they're just in New York. Maybe it's like women in finance Typekit alums, because aren't you part of a women in finance group there?
Grace: [00:12:27] I'm not technically, but I. I've reached out to a few people from a group called Wall Street Women's Alliance, and I've gotten some responses through that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:35] So, yeah, like, I would absolutely just leverage that and connect with as many people as you can. But so do you think I mean, that doesn't take long, right, that you could really be on LinkedIn for? One day, eight hours, let's say, four hours on a Saturday morning, four hours on a Sunday morning, and you could probably send out two hundred connection requests. Mm hmm. Ok. One hundred each day and you would now be connected to probably you sent out two hundred. You probably get like 80 to 70 new connections just from that. And so it sounds like, oh, that's not a great return, but you just increased your connections by like 40 percent or 30 percent. Now the key is what do you do with those connections? So I think it's important that you don't have to be reaching out very frequently, but you reach out when you have an exciting thing to report and then they get used to like hearing from you every six, four to six months of like, Oh, I've done this and things are going great at four am. I'd love to hop on the phone. We haven't had a chance to meet in person. You grab coffee. I'm in the city. I'm going to be. I can come down to where you are and, you know, giving them the options of when you're actually free. To do that, when you're not in class, thing is going to be a great use your time.
Grace: [00:13:50] Mm hmm. So when I'm sending those initial requests and what am I asking in that initial
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:56] Request, hey, it'd be great to be connected with UCLA. You went to forum. Maybe we could connect. Maybe we could chat at some point in the future, whatever's best for you? Okay, so we can go over that. We'll send we'll just chat back and forth on Skype after this. But maybe it's something. I'll just do it right now, actually. So you can say hi name, hi name. I'm a freshman. At Fordham, studying what is it?
Grace: [00:14:26] Yeah, global business and finance,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:29] Business and finance. I saw that you come and work in, say I be. I'd love to be connected, so we. Maybe chat at some point that is mutually convenient, something like that. Ok. Regards and fix the spelling. I can't spell right now, but you get the idea. Uh-huh. Grace and what's needed, Patrick? Don't do that. Something that short.
Grace: [00:15:17] Mm hmm. Ok.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:18] I think that I spelled freshman wrong, but I think that would be. Long enough, and if you have to cut something, you can just say, I'm a freshman at Fordham, you can even read the studying. You are an alum and where can I be? I'd love to be here so we could maybe chat. Chad can be here or at some point in the future. Best regards. That's it. Okay. Short and sweet. And that's just going to just open it from one hundred and whatever you are at one hundred and forty, I think you're going to quickly get to and it doesn't have to be. If it's not a Fordham person, say I'm a freshman in New York or I'm working, I'm an if it's somebody, if it's like you're working, if you're doing like the female angle, like the women in Wall Street maybe can say, I'm a member of the women business at Fordham, something that's somewhat relevant to what they saw. I saw you're a member of women's. I'd love to be connected so we could chat, maybe at some point in the future. Ok. There's something very low key, and most people are just going to accept that blindly and not even think about it. But then the beauty is you can get their email right. Put them into that reminder cycle that we talked about. So do you have right inbox? I think we talked about that.
Grace: [00:16:21] I yeah, I downloaded it and I was using it for the reminders. And then I think I ran out of credits or whatever on it. So it wouldn't let me do it beyond 10 emails.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:29] I think I would pay for it. Ok. I would get it just because once you start this, it's going to be super worth it. You have you'll have set reminders at like three months, six months, 12 months. Ok, so the initial time you reach out to people, actually, you can have it like be like one week, three weeks, three months, six months, 12 months. It can be like your default settings where you write an email initially. So like you do these connection requests. You grab all. So once it's up to like five hundred, I would tell you, OK, scrape them all, get all the emails off. Mm hmm. This sounds crazy, but it's like other people are doing this. And it's kind of like a hack in order to help you just scale it efficiently. You do have to put in the initial effort to actually reach out. You can reach out to up to you can do a hundred connection requests the day before LinkedIn's like, hey, slow down. Right, OK, stop it. So that's seven hundred connection requests a day. So it's not that hard, especially if you do a filter like anybody. If it's affordable, um, who works in finance like you should absolutely be reaching out to them. But. It doesn't have to just be IBBI. It could be ibey, it could be corporate finance, corporate development, it could be management consulting. You should be talking to all these people because maybe you're like, you think you want IAB now? But who knows, maybe you're like, Hey, I really insulting seems more cool now or more interesting to me. So I think. Going back to this, what I'll call a hack developing all this connection requests, I can show you the program that allows you to grab all the profiles and the emails off there. Once you have those emails, you can start like a reminder cycle, so you'll wait until you have a time when you have something. Good to announce like you landed your summer freshman internship or you are starting back and you did something kind of noteworthy and you basically or initially you could just send our initial email when you first when they connect with you to keep things kind of staggered. So it's not, you know, you want to email 500 people at once, be like, let's meet because then what if, like 50 of them? Make sure you're like, Oh, so you do want to stagger it a little bit. But that's what why right inbox will help you do that. So if you basically let's say you get we wait till you get to, let's say, just three hundred, you get all this three hundred emails. I wouldn't tell you to blast three hundred people. I tell you, let's blast 20 every week, right? Or 30 every week. And then what you're going to do is you'll send a needle with a thirty one, I'll get back to you or not, I'll get back to you. You'll have all of those emails you set. Reminder one week a week later, it'd be like, hey, just checking you to see if you saw that I'd really be great to chat. And so we'll have a template for every single. The first, the first outreach, the second outreach and the third outreach after you reach out the third time. If they haven't responded, you can let that sit for six months. So then you'll see because it'll pop it back in your inbox. It'll be like, OK, I reached out. I reached out this date. I follow it up one week. I followed something they still haven't reached out to me. I don't want to be like crazy and keep going. So I'm going to remind her six months and then six months, you're going to reach out to them and give again because you'll be surprised if. It may take you till sophomore year, like end of sophomore year, something people are reaching out to now that if you are consistently following up with them and you reached out, you're not like crazy where you're doing it every single week, but you do. You do the initial outreach to emails and you wait six months, you send another email. And then there you don't do two again. You wait another six months. You do another email, you do another six months. You do another email. Now you're like, OK, she's super persistent, like, maybe I need to talk to this girl, like maybe there's something like and one of they may just say, please stop. You see no problem, right? But like, you know, you're doing it in a kind way. You're doing it in a professional way. You're not hitting their inbox every day. If you do that across several hundred people, you're going to be getting into you're going to be having a ton of meetings. You're going to be learning a lot about different industries first-hand from people, and you're going to learn a ton. You know, you can learn a lot just browsing and reading the forms on Wall Street basis. But having the one on one face to face, you're learning. Plus you're developing a much stronger relationship. Mm hmm. So like when the interview comes, for example, that dinner you have or whatever or that that meeting you had that conference where the guy's like, Hey, come to this dinner or the guy telling you about that internship, that's because you went out and you put yourself out there. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. That wouldn't happen, right? Otherwise. Uh huh.. So keep doing that. But I think leverage the technology that's out there to get you to scale it at a much bigger level.
Grace: [00:21:06] Does that makes sense? Yeah. Know we'll probably a lot more efficient in the long run than what I'm doing now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:11] So a lot more efficient like you can get in front of, you know, you can go to however many conferences, but think how many hours you're spending at that conference. Mm hmm. Think how many people you could have reached out to on LinkedIn. But you know, so you still have to do that. You still have to put in the time for the coffee shop. Mm hmm. It's not like but that coffee chats some. It's something you created out of nothing. Mm hmm. That coffee chat is a person you didn't even know. It's an alum that graduated 10 years ago that has no connection to you. So while it's good to do what everyone else is doing on campus and the events and all that stuff, you really need to pave your own path in terms of the networking, not just lean on what Fordham gives you. Mm hmm. Because the more people you're connected to, the more people you develop a relationship with and know you going into this sophomore recruiting and junior recruiting the higher your odds are that you land the type of internship you want to land, they're going to put you on the right track. Mm hmm. It's so crazy that it's this early that like we have to talk about this freshman year, but you know, you get it like you're a hard worker. You did really well in high school. So like, I don't think you're afraid of it, right? Are your class as the number of hours you're putting in for school prohibiting you from doing more on the networking side? Or do you feel like you're able to handle it? Or it's just like you're trying to actually have some fun in your life instead of just like always working being the top of your class? Because I get it like when I went to college, like I wanted to have fun too. So is it? Is it something where you don't have you have like how many? I guess the question is, how many hours do you have to dedicate to this stuff?
Grace: [00:22:38] I mean, the past three weeks since our first call, I guess I've been putting in. Including like actual phone calls and meetings, I probably am putting about like nine, eight, nine hours a week. And that's been manageable. That's been a good number. I don't think I can go too far above that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:57] Yeah, that's fair. And so you're putting in about probably like. Well, in class, you're in class, probably like 15 hours a week,
Grace: [00:23:05] Something like that, yeah,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:07] Like two or three hours, like three hours a day, probably on average. And then you're doing like two hours a day an hour or two of networking or reach out or whatever. And then you're doing, I'm thinking about it. Yeah, I mean, it's just really where you're focusing your time because I think keep doing the higher impact stuff in terms of like the where you feel like you can get out like the conference is like a conference. That's good. I don't know if the blockchain thing will be great
Grace: [00:23:35] Because I mean, that was just like a short thing that wasn't that much time, OK? But I met like a couple people through that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:42] Oh, no. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't hurt. I think it's good actually to be to practice face to face. I mean, the whole goal of this LinkedIn outreach and all this stuff is just to get face-to-face with somebody or to at least do a phone call. Mm hmm. But I think when you can, since you're in the city, the more kind of. I mean, ideally, you start having like two coffee chats a day on like Saturdays and Sunday and like you can show up early to the coffee shop and literally just be on LinkedIn doing more outreach while you're waiting for that
Grace: [00:24:14] Because I think suggesting weekends too for everyone I've reached out to, but no one has like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:19] Has. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough because a lot of them will either have family if they're older or they're they don't necessarily want to do like a work-related thing. Although it may be a little more open to it, I'm surprised no one's taking you upon it. But yeah, any questions on kind of what's been going on?
Grace: [00:24:39] I don't think so.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:42] Do you feel like our next session or at some point I do want to do kind of some mock interviews with you and hear your spiel and all of that? And I don't want it to go too long where we don't do that because I feel like. Even though you're a freshman and your answers don't have to be super like polished or anything like that, I think the earlier you can get that polished and talk about your experiences and be ready for like, especially the fit portion of the interviews, like not the super technical accounting, but the fit portion of why this industry? Why this? Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell me about a time. It's super hard because you only had so much experience, but you did a lot in high school. You can draw from those, are you? Are you able to get involved in any stuff on campus right now in terms of like leadership,
Grace: [00:25:35] Not leadership, really, but
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:38] Lot of the stuff that are relevant?
Grace: [00:25:39] I've joined a lot of clubs and there's a diversity and inclusion board that's starting up. So I'm at the Lincoln Center campus, which is smaller, but they're starting up one the end of this year into next year. So I've kind of gotten involved in that so I can be one of the main people that starts that up.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:57] So that's oh, that's great. And then any business or finance clubs there?
Grace: [00:26:03] Yeah, I'm in the investment banking club here. Okay. And then I'm also in the Smart Women Securities Group up at the Bronx campus.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:11] Ok, and then do you think that's spreading yourself too thin or you think that's OK? Those three,
Grace: [00:26:17] Those are the only. I'm also in the finance club to the Bronx campus.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:23] Ok? Yeah, it's a lot.
Grace: [00:26:25] I mean, I can't go to a lot of the events or meetings they have on the Bronx campus just because of when I have class here. But there's like the conference I'm going to this Friday, I was able to get into through one of those clubs.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:39] Ok, cool. So that's super helpful. Yeah, I just try to leverage all of those. Yeah. If you're not, that's actually not a bad thing. If you're not, if you can't go to those meetings because I think your time is going to be instead of networking with other students as much, which is good and it's good to do, I think you're going to ideally you're networking with professionals who are already in or you want to go to. Yeah, I'm trying to think anything else like specifically around the networking. So is does that sound fair like in terms of a goal like just really scaling your connection requests instead of just leveraging? Ok, so let's focus on that for this month and just really try to like you can shock me when I open your LinkedIn profile and I see five plus connections, that would be awesome because then I think we can. We can do a lot in terms of getting that cycle going and getting some sort of kind of email chains going, OK. And you have your own personal like Gmail account, right? So you can just do.
Grace: [00:27:41] I've been doing it through my school email, but I can do either.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:44] Oh, is it? Is it Gmail? Does your school email come in through Gmail? Yes. I think better to do it through your own personal Gmail, just because when you do graduate, just having those connections, eventually they make you,
Grace: [00:27:56] Oh, we keep our emails. So that's been a good way. I can reach out to alumni, too, if they also have their Fortum emails.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:02] Oh, that's awesome. Mm hmm. Ok, so you keep it OK. So yeah, if you can keep it, then for sure it's definitely good. I mean, the question is, if you want to brand yourself under Fordham forever, right, that maybe, maybe it's not a bad thing if you're real, your real thing. Tell me about the alumni at Fordham. Are there a lot in banking?
Grace: [00:28:21] Yes. Or it's been really recent, so most of them are really young. But I think it's Goldman, and I want to say BlackRock's another big one that has had a lot of people recently.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:36] So BlackRock is more like asset management typically, though, right? So are they doing like. So this is more like investment management, asset management type jobs or is it like banking, like mergers and acquisitions?
Grace: [00:28:46] I think it's more of the asset management side, but I haven't talked to many people from.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:50] What about people at Goldman?
Grace: [00:28:52] You know, they're it's more spread out. It's a lot of asset management. There's a good number in banking, there's a few in merchant banking.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:02] So that's my only concern with only with focusing heavily on Fordham alum. Is that maybe limiting yourself to those specific divisions? Mm hmm. And I think you can retire than that. You can do better because number one, you have me to push you. And number two, it's all about like just who, you know, early enough and, you know, early in your college career. And so like anybody watching this, if they're freshmen or they're seniors in high school and they start this process of building their connections, there's no reason why you can't get into an M&A role at a Credit Suisse, at a bulge bracket, at a Houlihan, at a Lazard, or whatever it happens to be. You just have to know the right people and know because they're not going to necessarily be on campus. So is there any campus recruiting that's coming specifically at Fordham?
Grace: [00:29:53] I know there is four sophomores and it's something that I know Goldman does something for sophomores, but. You have to be invited by the school to go.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:05] We determine who determines that
Grace: [00:30:08] One of the people or a small group in the Career Development Center up at Rose Hill when I've already met with
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:16] Them. And what do they like you? You know so.
Grace: [00:30:21] Yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:22] Ok. Ok, good.
Grace: [00:30:24] And I think because I'm in the honors program, I automatically am invited to that anyway. Ok? They made it sound like.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:30] But you know, if that Goldman program is like for asset management type roles.
Grace: [00:30:36] I don't know what specifically it is.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:39] No, that's the thing is like, don't get enamored with the name. You're going to be much better off going to a middle market, the strong middle market investment bank, developing the valuation and the modeling skills and getting that skill set of doing actual transactions versus like all of a sudden, you're in a sales and trading role and or an asset management role, you're doing more base level stuff. That's not where it's not pushing you to grow as much. You'd learn about portfolio theory and all these other stuff, which is interesting. But if you don't want to go in that direction, if you actually want to do transaction work and eventually go to the buy side, potentially private equity hedge funds going into asset management, you're done. That's it. Like, it's not done. I mean, that is technically the buy side, but it's the sell side. It's on the sell side of the bias. So it's like you're managing clients money, but you're not doing the actual transactions, you're not buying the companies. So, yeah, just let's that just hearing that makes me nervous that your outreach is. It's the easiest to go the Fordham route, but it's not necessarily the highest impact for you in your career. So I'm like thinking, maybe there's something where half of your outreach is non Fordham. Mm hmm. I'm on LinkedIn, where you maybe reach out to just women in finance and hire like associates at banks and managing directors and analysts even just try to meet the analysts for coffee, because then if you hit it off with one of them and you guys become good friends and like your regular update, then they'll be like, oh, I'm going to get you in, I want you to come work with us. Mm hmm. And that that can be enough. That can be enough. So let's not lean too heavily on Fordham. Mm hmm. Because I think
Grace: [00:32:27] There's a lot that I haven't explored yet, either. So I've only looks a little.
Patrick (CEO of WSO):00:32:32] What do you mean in terms of explore like before?
Grace: [00:32:34] Like what's just looking like? Who's out there, I guess?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:38] Got it. Ok, that's fair. Yeah, I'm sure there are some bankers and stuff like that, but I get the sense that it's probably is a lot of asset management. I think Portman's been doing really well and growing a lot more in terms of like their placements and that. I mean, Goldman actually shows up on campus, right? So that's a good sign. It's just a question of like, don't let it, the names of who's on campus change your perception of the types of jobs that are being offered to the alum. Mm hmm. School because it can be Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Evercore, all the top names, but they could be only recruiting for back office middle office positions.
Grace: [00:33:16] Mm hmm. I mean, there's a lot of alumni at Goldman, I know from the past three years working in the investment banking area.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:23] Ok, so that's great. So that's new. That's new. That's awesome. So I'd focus a lot of your effort there if that's where you want to go, and I would point you to go there because I think the exit opportunities and everything are parallel there versus going into like a sales and trading which is really struggling, an area that's struggling. Mm hmm. So, yeah, we don't have to do a super long session today, I think. I think, yeah, I think just continue to build that network, really focus on that. I think you're doing a great job with getting yourself out there. I just want to see a little bit more and I'll cover the expense on the writing box for you. It's fine. It's if that's like an issue. So just because I think that's going to really help you. Mm hmm. So just like use a hit like just get back cycle and get into the habit of doing that every week. Yeah. So like once you build up those connections, I think our next session will be on. Ok, let's actually template out what we're going to say in each of these cycles and the gaps in between each. And you literally have a sheet that's just like, this is what I'm going to do for all these connections and then kind of go from there. And then ideally by doing that starting early next year, you're meeting with a ton of people. It's I don't know how many people you could do. I mean, if you're doing 10 hours a week, you said eight to nine hours, let's say you scale it up to 10, 10 hours a week. A good balance would be like three or four hours, building new connections in three to four hours, like actually just meeting people, meeting with people, saying meeting like with four or five people a week. Ok, that would be amazing if you could keep that. If you could keep that cadence going, imagine by like the end of your freshman year even you could have met with. What is that like 30 people for now, really powerful face to face. So anyways, like, that's it for now. I mean, maybe what do you think about like your interview skills? Like, have you had any chance to look through the courses at all?
Grace: [00:35:25] Very slightly, but not.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:27] Yeah, I think no, I think it's not a super high priority for you because I don't think anybody putting you through an interview is going to drill you on technical questions yet. I think it might make sense for us to go over your behavioral and fit questions and your responses with that. Do you have you done because polishing those are going to help you on the coffee chats? A lot. So when you start like early twenty, when you start actually getting some of these meetings, we want to make sure you're not kind of rambling on tangents and like doing the stuff. We want to make sure, like your story is really buttoned down and have like actual you have actual examples you can pull from your past. Mm hmm. Like, so are there like you've already done that, right?
Grace: [00:36:15] I mean, I've had so I've kind of done that already and like the coffee chats I've had in the past few weeks and then some I've done.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:24] You have notes on that. Do you have notes on like how you like your answers to different types of questions like tell me your challenges, your greatest weaknesses? Do you have notes on that?
Grace: [00:36:33] Not those types of questions. More ones that would come up in a conversation. Naturally, though, like in the coffee chats, like why are you interested in finance?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:41] Great. So one other assignment, besides the connections, I want you to create a Google doc and share it with me. Mm hmm. And I want you to put their y finance at the top. Mm hmm. And I want you to put kind of what you say it can be bullets doesn't have to be like word for word. Ok, well, let's and then I want you to do y i b. Then I want you to do greatest weaknesses, greatest strengths, and then I'm going to push you to have an example under each that you can pull from your past, from your from. That's going to do that. And I'm going to add I'm going to add things in there that are the most common into that doc. And I'm going to have you do bullets that way. Let's say, let's say you're at a coffee chat. It's very common. Sometimes those can turn into an actual real interview. Mm hmm. And you don't want to be sitting there like, he's like, tell me a time where you struggled with authority. Tell me about a time when you there was conflict in a group. Mm hmm. How did you deal with that? You know what I mean? Like, you just don't want to be caught flat footed. If all of a sudden, like, imagine he has he or she has a good impression of you and they're like, well, let's see how you do in like this type of interview. They may forget that you're a freshman because maybe you're polished and then all of a sudden they start throwing these like fit questions at you and you're like, oh, I can't think of one now, but I'll get back to you. You know, it's better if you're just ready. So create that document. You can call it like Grace's fit or something like that. I don't know what you want to call it, just something for coffee chats, and that'll be a document we can build off of for interviews when they start happening. Ok. Does that work? Yes. Because I think that'll really help you because it's in your head. But seeing it. Me seeing it in bullet form actually helped me kind of be like, Oh, you shouldn't say that or let's you should elaborate more on that. Mm hmm. Ok. And it might be something on the next session where we can actually go through it and you say, Hey, my finance, I'll be like, I think that's really good or that's really strong. And that one, let's modify a little bit. Does that sound good?
Grace: [00:38:41] Yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:42] Cool. I think that'll be I think all this stuff you're laying like the foundation of what I see kind of coming up into your sophomore year. Mm hmm. If you can get anything with valuation work, you should not let that go and keep emailing that guy. So tell me how many times you've emailed him now.
Grace: [00:39:03] I messaged him on LinkedIn and I emailed him twice.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:07] So you had his email and his LinkedIn. You message him once on LinkedIn.
Grace: [00:39:10] Mm hmm. Yes. I originally reached out to him over email and then like to set up the meeting. And then after that, I've been emailing him, but he hasn't.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:21] So how did you have his email?
Grace: [00:39:24] I just kind of I had his name and then I found the company's email.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:28] Got it. Ok, so like, yeah, the email format. And so you're sure it's getting through to him.
Grace: [00:39:32] Mm hmm. So the first time I emailed him the night of like at one after I met him, and then he didn't open that email until five days later. And so I sent a follow up two days after that, and he still hasn't opened that one.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:47] So you just see, so it has nothing to do with him trying to blow you off, so it's like, just don't give up. Right? But that one, but definitely let it sit for two weeks, OK? For three weeks, potentially after you've. Well, let me say you follow it up. He said he read your email two days later, you sent a follow
Grace: [00:40:06] Up after I sent it
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:08] And right. And he still hasn't even read that one. That was a week later. So you've sent me. So I would wait three weeks from when you sent that second. Ok, so probably another week or two. Mm hmm. Before you do another one and make it literally one line? Ok. And what's the goal here?
Grace: [00:40:28] Well, I both. So he had mentioned the person who's speaking at Fordham and the private dinner afterwards, as well as the internship.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:35] Oh, shoot, when is that? When's that dinner? Do you know the date November 11th?
Grace: [00:40:39] I think.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:40] So you can't wait three weeks,
Grace: [00:40:42] But I'm actually meeting. So it's the speaker who's coming is coming through the Smart Woman Securities Group, and I'm meeting with the president of that this week. So I think I could talk to her and ask her if she knows anything about it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:57] And yeah, you can say, well, he had mentioned that I should come. Mm hmm. So I was hoping you could give me some more information on that note. He's super busy. Mm hmm. And try to just get the information. You know what I mean? Just get the info of where, when and like just so you can be there because you're showing your face would be huge there. And so that's the guy who said, like, maybe there's an internship opportunity.
Grace: [00:41:19] He said he only offers it to Fordham students.
Patrick (CEO of WSO):00:41:22] How many?
Grace: [00:41:23] I think so. But he said he's not the one who runs the application process because he doesn't want to be involved in it. So he it's someone else that he works with who actually, I guess, goes through the applicants
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:35] And tell me, is this a bank or what is this place?
Grace: [00:41:38] It's a I think it's kind of like private equity. I don't completely understand what else they do, but I think it's a mix
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:46] Of Do you want to shoot me the
Grace: [00:41:48] It's like, Yeah, it's called Varde partners.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:51] Let me look at it up now. De. Here it is. Alternative investment advisor with roots in credit and distressed, interesting unlocking value our business. Investment strategies, so they're running money, the question is what type of funds who are trading credit, so it's not banking, it's more like they're running. It's privately held entirely by partners of the firm. Our team. So you met with.
Grace: [00:42:29] And that was Brendan Albee, Brendan.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:35] Anyways, whatever, he's somewhere in here, it's a big team, so it's so. They're doing it. What's interesting in credit and distress, so they're investing in like. Some pretty hairy situations and probably trying to unlock value, basically, they're looking at like potential bankruptcies and where bonds may be undervalued and maybe shorting things or a loan to own Typekit type opportunities. Corporate and sovereign credit restructurings, real estate mortgages, private equity and direct lending invested more than 60 billion since the founding more than three hundred years ago. So it's a big yeah, they've managed over 14 billion. Yeah, I mean, that would be really cool if you get in.
Grace: [00:43:17] And then also someone that I met. So I was like I said in the video, I was able to talk to a few people and get into the Fordham MBA School Alumni networking event last week. And so I met a lot of the MBA students there, and one of them works for First Republic Bank and had mentioned, I think she does lending like private equity lending to private equity. And she had mentioned that they hire interns as well and that I should I
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:47] Could reach out with her and be like, I'm making me an intro. That'd be great. It sounds really interesting. Freshman summer, any of these would be unbelievable. Ok. Anything, some anything relevant with values. Finance, valuation experience is really going to set you up. So like, don't let go those little leads that you have.
Grace: [00:44:06] Like, yeah, I followed up with her and waiting to hear back
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:09] And follow up again next week. Okay, because like these people are busy, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't like you. If they ignore you, sometimes they're. I mean, especially the MBA students, there's probably stress about recruiting, right? They get onto campus like September, and by this time, typically the internship, I think the offers are like out by now for the summer.
Grace: [00:44:33] So if she doesn't have part time students, so she's working and taking classes,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:38] She's oh, she's out, she's working there at
Grace: [00:44:40] First. Yeah, she works there now as well as
Speaker121: [00:44:43] Being a student. That's huge. That's a better outcome because she's already there. She could just pass your resume throughout.
Grace: [00:44:47] Right?
Speaker121: [00:44:49] Ok, that's two great leads. That's too great. And that happened through Fordham's stuff. Yes. Maybe you should keep doing that. Maybe I'm wrong.
Grace: [00:45:00] I met a lot of great people at the networking event.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:02] So yeah, and you're getting business. You're getting business cards there.
Grace: [00:45:07] Yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:08] Do you give them anything?
Grace: [00:45:11] No, I didn't have. I mean, I connected with all them on LinkedIn.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:15] Yeah, I think that's fine. You know, some people say you should have a business card. I think it's kind of silly as a student to have a business card. I think more important is that, you establish that connection on LinkedIn. So like, what am I? Do you have the things that are face to face? I think you would be really helpful for you long term to actually create a sheet spreadsheet. Do you have that?
Grace: [00:45:39] Oh yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:41] And so when you meet these people face to face and you collect their card and you send them, are you putting that in the sheet?
Grace: [00:45:47] And what do you like their contact information? Yeah. Oh yeah, I have an excel with all the people I've talked to and like the last date, I spoke with them.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:54] Do you have any notes on there?
Grace: [00:45:56] Yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:57] So like, do they have kids?
Grace: [00:46:00] Yeah, I put little things like that that are important to know.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:04] Ok, perfect. And then so the beauty of that is you're actually like, you're actually like building the face to face connections. I think that sheet should be for the people who like, you've actually either done a call with or met with face to face to view. That is like those are two super strong leads already, right? So with Vardy and with First Republic? Mm hmm. For a freshman summer internship. Now imagine if you could scale that and have 10 super strong leads or 15 super strong leads. And so that's what I want you to get to because a lot of people will talk and very few people will follow through and help you actually land the internship. Mm hmm. And like for freshman summer, it's going to be very much like, Oh yeah, she seems great. Ok, fine. And if you miss that little window that they have or like that week, they decide, Hey, OK, we're going to bring in some interns now. That could be it. And I'm sorry it's full now, you know? And so my hope is that there's probably a lot more of our days and first republic out there that are happening soon. So my hope is that like you can scale up that that outreach not and not, you know, I know you have grades and to keep up and all that other stuff, but that you focus really heavily in these last couple of months of the year to try and build up a few more strong leads because ideally you land Vardy or First Republic, but it's not it's definitely not a sure thing when people, people always mention things in passing. Mm hmm. You know what I mean? If you can get a warm intro from that, that MBA student still working there to whomever is running the program? Mm hmm. Internship program. That's huge. Ok. And then, yeah, you may if you have any sort of interviews coming up beforehand. And that's another reason why I think getting that sheet done of your why? Mm hmm. You know, grace is why I think very important to actually do that soon. You may be in an interview before you even realize. Uh-huh.
Grace: [00:48:08] Well, I applied for a Goldman like women's program in the spring. I have a higher view to do that this week. Yay.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:16] Awesome. Well, higher of you, are you? Do you feel OK about that? Mm hmm.
Grace: [00:48:22] It says the duration, it says is five minutes. So I think it's just one question. But for two questions,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:28] You know what they're going to ask?
Grace: [00:48:28] You know, I looked up what last year's were, so I don't know if they'll be the same.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:33] But have you actually recorded yourself besides these chats with me? Have you actually recorded this is this is actually going to help your higher view of, by the way, this one thing I'll say, smile a lot because there's a lot of algorithm stuff going on, right? Smile, you know, real smile. Like try to actually be like this. Like, you know, the cheeks. Yeah, because it picks up on that stuff. It's kind of freaky that a computer is tracking all that. But, you know, make sure you're smiling. You're pausing. And if that's when is that next week
Grace: [00:49:08] Or it's this, I have to do it by the end of this week, Friday.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:12] Mm hmm. Do you want to do a practice run with me Thursday or Wednesday? Sure. Five minutes.
Grace: [00:49:21] Ok.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:22] And I'll just have some things that I'll be like, Go and I'll time you. I think I think
Grace: [00:49:26] You should do that Wednesday. Be better
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:29] Wednesday. Ok, that's good. Yeah, Wednesday should work. Let me check my calendar, but I think you're doing a dry run with like somebody like me. Watching you, which is stressful is a good. It's really good. It's a really good practice run to. Danny, I'll send out sometimes for you on Wednesday, you send out some times to me that work and we'll figure it out, but. Trying to think what else? Ok, so hire you. And what does that for that women's program, what division is that for?
Grace: [00:50:01] It's not for a specific program like you could put it on the application, your areas of interest. So I wouldn't know yet which one I've been accepted into.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:11] Got it. But it's like four. They allow freshmen to do it. Yes. My gosh, it's so crazy right now. It's so nuts like you guys, just like babies. You feel
Grace: [00:50:22] Alone. I know some people who did it their freshman year and then got a sophomore summer internship through it, like some Fordham students.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:29] They did it. They did the interview freshman year,
Grace: [00:50:32] Or they did the program freshman year and then made connections through that that they were able to be just automatically invited back to the program sophomore year. And then they got a sophomore summer internship.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:43] But is it? Let me ask you a question on that. Is it something where it's a full on internship after this? This is really
Grace: [00:50:52] Like you're working with all the juniors as well. It's just the only sophomore interns are like the diversity ones.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:59] Well, why are they letting you interview as a freshman then?
Grace: [00:51:03] Well, I think it's just the program is not
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:06] It's not it doesn't
Grace: [00:51:07] Help, but it can lead to one.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:10] The program you're still in, but you're at the firm for 12 weeks,
Grace: [00:51:13] You're at the firm or no, the program is just like a few days in the spring.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:17] Oh, it's one of those like come for a few days, but they still make you do hire of you or it. Ok, yeah, that's good to have, but that's not it's good to get yourself into the cycle, you should absolutely do it and it's actually a good practice, but it's not one of those like actual internships, like you still would need a summer internship.
Grace: [00:51:36] Oh yeah, I'm not saying it replaced. I'm just saying for the connections it makes. I know it's very valuable for sure.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:41] For sure. Ok. Very good. Ok, so yeah, let's try to do something this week just short, short and sweet. Like we'll call it the higher view mock. Ok. And try to get something on the calendar for Wednesday because I feel like, yeah, just to dry. And if you can do some practice before that, if you know the format, if it's five minutes, if you know the format of like one question, just like be like, this is the prompt on giving you a record yourself. Mm hmm. Maybe for the weekly update next? No, you need to do it before the end of this week. Ok, so maybe for I don't know, you just do something and you can send it to me. It doesn't have to go up into the show or whatever. Just send it to me over Skype. Ok. What do you think and do that? And then it'll give me an idea of some stuff. I can kind of give you feedback.
Grace: [00:52:25] Ok. And do that before we talk on
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:27] Mondays, before we talk, because I want you to do one practice run there. Ok? And then one live as well. Ok. Five minutes. Literally just five minutes, right? Why? What interested you about financial services? This probably would ask. But I think that'll really help you. Ok. Ok. All right, so yeah, so let's stay in touch and good luck with everything this week. And yet we'll all said sometimes over right now for Wednesday, and then let's be in touch.
Grace: [00:52:59] Ok, great. Sounds good. Great. Thank you. Ok.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:02] And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis. And till next time.
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